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RE: [mythsoc] free Ring inside

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  • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
    PS I have one of the Three, and a Silmaril, and I dare you to say anything about either. Hmph. I mean, I lean more towards agreeing with your arguments, sure,
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 22, 2003
      PS I have one of the Three, and a Silmaril, and I dare you to say anything
      about either. Hmph.

      I mean, I lean more towards agreeing with your arguments, sure, but I also
      feel this is very subjective turf. Ie, I think it is preferable to "find"
      mythic objects rather than buy pre-made ones... but that is no virtue I can
      take credit for. They just haven't marketed the perfect Cernunnos for me
      yet I suspect, although I think there is a copy of the Gundestrop out there
      somewhere.

      Lizzie Triano
      lizziewriter@...
      amor vincit omnia
    • David S. Bratman
      Lizzie - This is not a question of artistic vision, it s a question of philosophical interpretation. And it s most emphatically not whether it works for
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 23, 2003
        Lizzie -

        This is not a question of "artistic vision," it's a question of
        philosophical interpretation. And it's most emphatically not whether it
        "works for me," it's whether it's a philosophical misinterpretation of Tolkien.

        Who's to say what's a misinterpretation of Tolkien? That's for people who
        know Tolkien's work to figure out. The person wearing the Ring has offered
        an interpretation; I've given mine. If you want to offer a
        counter-argument, offer one, but don't tsk and say that nobody can call
        something else invalid. That's a fundamental moral relativism, which
        Tolkien and Lewis stood against all their lives. Eomer asked, "How shall a
        man judge what to do in such times?" and Aragorn replied, "As he ever has
        judged. Good and evil have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one
        thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to
        discern them, as much as in the Golden Wood as in his own house."

        And I have done my part to discern here - I will not say "good" and "evil",
        nor even "right" and "wrong", but just "a reasonable interpretation of
        Tolkien" and "a misinterpretation of Tolkien."

        But I am a modern relativist too. As far as I'm concerned, we are free to
        misinterpret Tolkien all we want. Any of us would hardly be the first.
        (I'm a big fan of "Bored of the Rings" myself.) Just be aware when we're
        doing it.


        At 02:24 PM 10/22/2003 , Lizzie wrote:
        >Oh David, honestly. So it doesn't work for you. Who's to say that another
        >person's artistic vision isn't valid? Tsk, tsk, tsk.
      • David S. Bratman
        ... I say it s rather sad. How could any imitation Silmaril possibly convey even the echo of the Jewels that alone captured the light of the Two Trees of
        Message 3 of 14 , Oct 23, 2003
          At 02:28 PM 10/22/2003 , Lizzie wrote:
          >PS I have one of the Three, and a Silmaril, and I dare you to say anything
          >about either. Hmph.

          I say it's rather sad. How could any imitation Silmaril possibly convey
          even the echo of the Jewels that alone captured the light of the Two Trees
          of Valinor in bloom, jewels wrought by the unsurpassable mind and hand of
          Feanor? Even to try is to reduce Tolkien's brilliant imaginative creation
          into a gee-gaw.

          At 09:35 AM 10/22/2003 , Margaret Dean wrote:
          >I've read of people wearing heavy washers around their necks to
          >simulate the =weight= of the Ring. But that definitely
          >emphasizes the "burden" part of it.

          That also misses the point. Had Frodo (or more likely Sam) carried a
          balance scale all the way to Mordor, no weighing of the Ring would have
          detected even the slightest increase in physical weight. (See Tolkien's
          comments on the nourishment of lembas in Letters p. 274 for the clearest
          analogy.) The burden was a psychological one, and weighs Frodo down the
          way sorrows can weigh a person down; only it was conveyed through the
          external force of the Ring, which is why it's focused on that physical object.

          Anyone who wants to replicate the burden of the Ring would be best advised
          to acquire a martyred saint's relic and meditate on it.

          - David Bratman
        • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
          Oh I should know better than to argue with a bully. Lizzie Triano lizziewriter@earthlink.net amor vincit omnia
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 23, 2003
            Oh I should know better than to argue with a bully.

            Lizzie Triano
            lizziewriter@...
            amor vincit omnia
          • David S. Bratman
            Lizzie, as I said before, if you want to offer a counter-argument, offer one. Don t throw personal insults around. That s not proper behavior on this list.
            Message 5 of 14 , Oct 23, 2003
              Lizzie, as I said before, if you want to offer a counter-argument, offer
              one. Don't throw personal insults around. That's not proper behavior on
              this list.
            • Lisa Deutsch Harrigan
              They have many Rings of Power at Noble - Elrond, Galadriel, Nazgul King, Gandolf, Aragorn, Gimli. I could see a romantic couple picking something out that
              Message 6 of 14 , Oct 23, 2003
                They have many Rings of Power at Noble - Elrond, Galadriel, Nazgul King,
                Gandolf, Aragorn, Gimli. I could see a romantic couple picking something
                out that doesn't have the shadow of The One.

                Actually what I find most disturbing, is the amount of decorative stuff
                called "Elvish Script". It is Always the One Ring Inscription on all
                sorts of jewelry and key chains, but never properly identified. I don't
                think I want That Inscription as a piece of "decoration".

                Meanwhile, in doing research, I started drooling over the Elvish and
                Rohan Jewelry again. I wants ALL the headpieces, necklaces, and
                broaches. Hm, some pretty rings (not of power) Unfortunately, I am not
                the person who bought the lottery ticket in Santa Clara, so all I can do
                is drool on the monitor. May be one for Chanukah?

                Mythically yours,
                Lisa
              • Joan Marie Verba
                Just FYI, Lizzie unsubscribed from the list immediately after sending her last message, and therefore isn t getting any replies. Joan Still Friendly
                Message 7 of 14 , Oct 23, 2003
                  Just FYI, Lizzie unsubscribed from the list immediately after sending
                  her last message, and therefore isn't getting any replies.

                  Joan
                  Still Friendly Neighborhood Mythsoc List Administrator
                  ******************************************
                  Joan Marie Verba
                  verba001@...
                  http://www.sff.net/people/Joan.Marie.Verba
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