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RE: [mythsoc] free Ring inside

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  • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
    Oh David, honestly. So it doesn t work for you. Who s to say that another person s artistic vision isn t valid? Tsk, tsk, tsk. Lizzie Triano
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 22, 2003
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      Oh David, honestly. So it doesn't work for you. Who's to say that another
      person's artistic vision isn't valid? Tsk, tsk, tsk.

      Lizzie Triano
      lizziewriter@...
      amor vincit omnia
    • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
      PS I have one of the Three, and a Silmaril, and I dare you to say anything about either. Hmph. I mean, I lean more towards agreeing with your arguments, sure,
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 22, 2003
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        PS I have one of the Three, and a Silmaril, and I dare you to say anything
        about either. Hmph.

        I mean, I lean more towards agreeing with your arguments, sure, but I also
        feel this is very subjective turf. Ie, I think it is preferable to "find"
        mythic objects rather than buy pre-made ones... but that is no virtue I can
        take credit for. They just haven't marketed the perfect Cernunnos for me
        yet I suspect, although I think there is a copy of the Gundestrop out there
        somewhere.

        Lizzie Triano
        lizziewriter@...
        amor vincit omnia
      • David S. Bratman
        Lizzie - This is not a question of artistic vision, it s a question of philosophical interpretation. And it s most emphatically not whether it works for
        Message 3 of 14 , Oct 23, 2003
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          Lizzie -

          This is not a question of "artistic vision," it's a question of
          philosophical interpretation. And it's most emphatically not whether it
          "works for me," it's whether it's a philosophical misinterpretation of Tolkien.

          Who's to say what's a misinterpretation of Tolkien? That's for people who
          know Tolkien's work to figure out. The person wearing the Ring has offered
          an interpretation; I've given mine. If you want to offer a
          counter-argument, offer one, but don't tsk and say that nobody can call
          something else invalid. That's a fundamental moral relativism, which
          Tolkien and Lewis stood against all their lives. Eomer asked, "How shall a
          man judge what to do in such times?" and Aragorn replied, "As he ever has
          judged. Good and evil have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one
          thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to
          discern them, as much as in the Golden Wood as in his own house."

          And I have done my part to discern here - I will not say "good" and "evil",
          nor even "right" and "wrong", but just "a reasonable interpretation of
          Tolkien" and "a misinterpretation of Tolkien."

          But I am a modern relativist too. As far as I'm concerned, we are free to
          misinterpret Tolkien all we want. Any of us would hardly be the first.
          (I'm a big fan of "Bored of the Rings" myself.) Just be aware when we're
          doing it.


          At 02:24 PM 10/22/2003 , Lizzie wrote:
          >Oh David, honestly. So it doesn't work for you. Who's to say that another
          >person's artistic vision isn't valid? Tsk, tsk, tsk.
        • David S. Bratman
          ... I say it s rather sad. How could any imitation Silmaril possibly convey even the echo of the Jewels that alone captured the light of the Two Trees of
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 23, 2003
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            At 02:28 PM 10/22/2003 , Lizzie wrote:
            >PS I have one of the Three, and a Silmaril, and I dare you to say anything
            >about either. Hmph.

            I say it's rather sad. How could any imitation Silmaril possibly convey
            even the echo of the Jewels that alone captured the light of the Two Trees
            of Valinor in bloom, jewels wrought by the unsurpassable mind and hand of
            Feanor? Even to try is to reduce Tolkien's brilliant imaginative creation
            into a gee-gaw.

            At 09:35 AM 10/22/2003 , Margaret Dean wrote:
            >I've read of people wearing heavy washers around their necks to
            >simulate the =weight= of the Ring. But that definitely
            >emphasizes the "burden" part of it.

            That also misses the point. Had Frodo (or more likely Sam) carried a
            balance scale all the way to Mordor, no weighing of the Ring would have
            detected even the slightest increase in physical weight. (See Tolkien's
            comments on the nourishment of lembas in Letters p. 274 for the clearest
            analogy.) The burden was a psychological one, and weighs Frodo down the
            way sorrows can weigh a person down; only it was conveyed through the
            external force of the Ring, which is why it's focused on that physical object.

            Anyone who wants to replicate the burden of the Ring would be best advised
            to acquire a martyred saint's relic and meditate on it.

            - David Bratman
          • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
            Oh I should know better than to argue with a bully. Lizzie Triano lizziewriter@earthlink.net amor vincit omnia
            Message 5 of 14 , Oct 23, 2003
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              Oh I should know better than to argue with a bully.

              Lizzie Triano
              lizziewriter@...
              amor vincit omnia
            • David S. Bratman
              Lizzie, as I said before, if you want to offer a counter-argument, offer one. Don t throw personal insults around. That s not proper behavior on this list.
              Message 6 of 14 , Oct 23, 2003
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                Lizzie, as I said before, if you want to offer a counter-argument, offer
                one. Don't throw personal insults around. That's not proper behavior on
                this list.
              • Lisa Deutsch Harrigan
                They have many Rings of Power at Noble - Elrond, Galadriel, Nazgul King, Gandolf, Aragorn, Gimli. I could see a romantic couple picking something out that
                Message 7 of 14 , Oct 23, 2003
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                  They have many Rings of Power at Noble - Elrond, Galadriel, Nazgul King,
                  Gandolf, Aragorn, Gimli. I could see a romantic couple picking something
                  out that doesn't have the shadow of The One.

                  Actually what I find most disturbing, is the amount of decorative stuff
                  called "Elvish Script". It is Always the One Ring Inscription on all
                  sorts of jewelry and key chains, but never properly identified. I don't
                  think I want That Inscription as a piece of "decoration".

                  Meanwhile, in doing research, I started drooling over the Elvish and
                  Rohan Jewelry again. I wants ALL the headpieces, necklaces, and
                  broaches. Hm, some pretty rings (not of power) Unfortunately, I am not
                  the person who bought the lottery ticket in Santa Clara, so all I can do
                  is drool on the monitor. May be one for Chanukah?

                  Mythically yours,
                  Lisa
                • Joan Marie Verba
                  Just FYI, Lizzie unsubscribed from the list immediately after sending her last message, and therefore isn t getting any replies. Joan Still Friendly
                  Message 8 of 14 , Oct 23, 2003
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                    Just FYI, Lizzie unsubscribed from the list immediately after sending
                    her last message, and therefore isn't getting any replies.

                    Joan
                    Still Friendly Neighborhood Mythsoc List Administrator
                    ******************************************
                    Joan Marie Verba
                    verba001@...
                    http://www.sff.net/people/Joan.Marie.Verba
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