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Re: [mythsoc] RotK Trailer

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  • David S. Bratman
    I managed to download the trailer. Interesting. The visuals are impressive as always. And Jackson seems to have gotten the right angle on the moral
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 1, 2003
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      I managed to download the trailer. Interesting. The visuals are
      impressive as always. And Jackson seems to have gotten the right angle on
      the moral significance of the war side of the story, at least. But the
      dialogue ...

      Sam's "He means to murder us!" is way over the top, and then there are such
      glories as:

      Legolas: "The Eye of the Enemy is moving." How is it moving? Is it
      bouncing up and down like the little ball in those old Mitch Miller videos?
      Tell us, with those keen Elven eyes of yours.

      and

      Elrond to Aragorn: "Become who you were born to be!" Be all you can be!
      Join the Gondor Army!

      But that's not the worst of it. Gandalf's comparison of the storyline to
      chess is a dead giveway: he thinks of the war itself as a giant war-playing
      game.

      I think I've finally figured it out. Jackson is not making a film of "The
      Lord of the Rings." He's making a film of a Lord of the Rings board game.
      I think that would explain a lot. As a film of Tolkien's book, it sucks
      and has always sucked. But as a film of a board game, it's really excellent.


      At 10:24 AM 9/30/2003 , Joan wrote:
      >There was a pop-up screen saying there are special screenings in
      >December. I may consider going out and seeing one (my birthday present,
      >my precious!).

      As a public service, here's what it actually says. Some may want to go to
      these:


      >THE LORD OF THE RINGS: SPECIAL EXTENDED EDITION SCREENING ENGAGEMENT BRINGS
      >ADDITIONAL FOOTAGE TO THE BIG SCREEN FOR THE FIRST AND ONLY TIME
      >
      >Leading up to the December 17 release of The Lord of The Rings: The Return
      >of the King, the final film Peter Jackson´┐Żs epic trilogy, New Line Cinema
      >will bring moviegoers an exclusive, ONE-time-only in-theater event:
      >
      >The Lord of the Rings Special Extended Edition Screening Engagement.
      >
      >The schedule for this special theatrical screening series is as follows:
      >
      >December 5-11
      >Special Extended Edition The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring
      >
      >December 12-15
      >Special Extended Edition The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers
      >
      >Tuesday, December 16
      >One-time-only marathon of both the Extended Edition prints followed by the
      >first
      >screenings of The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King.

      - David Bratman
    • SusanPal@aol.com
      In a message dated 10/1/2003 12:45:11 AM Pacific Standard Time, ... Doesn t Gandalf say, at some point in the written RotK, The board is set, and the pieces
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 1, 2003
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        In a message dated 10/1/2003 12:45:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
        dbratman@... writes:

        > Gandalf's comparison of the storyline to
        > chess is a dead giveway: he thinks of the war itself as a giant war-playing
        > game.
        >

        Doesn't Gandalf say, at some point in the written RotK, "The board is set,
        and the pieces are moving"? I can't find it at the moment, but I have a
        distinct memory of that; and if so, the chess metaphor is Tolkien's, not Jackson's.

        Susan


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • SusanPal@aol.com
        In a message dated 10/1/2003 12:45:11 AM Pacific Standard Time, ... Oy! Bring lunch -- and dinner! Susan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 1, 2003
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          In a message dated 10/1/2003 12:45:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
          dbratman@... writes:

          > >Tuesday, December 16
          > >One-time-only marathon of both the Extended Edition prints followed by the
          > >first
          > >screenings of The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King.

          Oy! Bring lunch -- and dinner!

          Susan


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Croft, Janet B
          In the chapter Minas Tirith , Gandalf tells Pippin The board is set, and the pieces are moving ... But the Enemy has the move, and he is about to open his
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 1, 2003
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            In the chapter "Minas Tirith", Gandalf tells Pippin "The board is set, and
            the pieces are moving ... But the Enemy has the move, and he is about to
            open his full game. And pawns are likely to see as much of it as any..."
            And Aragorn continues the game metaphor at the end of "The Last Debate":
            "Nay, it is the last move in a great jeopardy, and for one side or the other
            it will bring the end of the game."

            So the game metaphor is Tolkien's -- but I do like David's observation that
            Jackson's film reads like a big RPG. So THAT's where the added bits like
            Aragorn falling into the river and being rescued by the wonder horse come
            from...

            One older article I ran across in my research speculated that Sauron
            wouldn't have been that good at chess. He didn't seem to understand feints
            and sacrifices, and clearly couldn't see ahead to Gandalf's next moves.
            Then there's the gaming metaphor that was used in the original Star Trek
            somewhere -- Spock plays chess and Kirk plays poker. Spock's moves and
            forces are all out in the open; he has no secrets from his opponent except
            what's in his head. Kirk's hand is hidden -- you can't know for sure what
            resources he has or what he plans to do with them. So Gandalf is actually
            playing poker, not chess....

            Janet Croft

            -----Original Message-----
            From: SusanPal@... [mailto:SusanPal@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 9:19 AM
            To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [mythsoc] RotK Trailer


            In a message dated 10/1/2003 12:45:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
            dbratman@... writes:

            > Gandalf's comparison of the storyline to
            > chess is a dead giveway: he thinks of the war itself as a giant
            war-playing
            > game.
            >

            Doesn't Gandalf say, at some point in the written RotK, "The board is set,
            and the pieces are moving"? I can't find it at the moment, but I have a
            distinct memory of that; and if so, the chess metaphor is Tolkien's, not
            Jackson's.

            Susan


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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          • Lisa Deutsch Harrigan
            ... And an extra Seat Cushion! (for the numb butt) We re talking 9 + hours of film viewing here! Still I wonder if I can talk Big Harold into it :-)
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 1, 2003
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              SusanPal@... wrote:

              >In a message dated 10/1/2003 12:45:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
              >dbratman@... writes:
              >
              >
              >
              >>>Tuesday, December 16
              >>>One-time-only marathon of both the Extended Edition prints followed by the
              >>>first
              >>>screenings of The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King.
              >>>
              >>>
              >
              >Oy! Bring lunch -- and dinner!
              >

              And an extra Seat Cushion! (for the numb butt) We're talking 9 + hours
              of film viewing here!

              Still I wonder if I can talk Big Harold into it :-)

              Mythically yours,
              Lisa
            • Kevin Bowring
              ... David, you don t know how much I needed a really good belly laugh today. On the money as usual. Thanks, Kevin
              Message 6 of 9 , Oct 1, 2003
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                "David S. Bratman" wrote:

                > But that's not the worst of it. Gandalf's comparison of the storyline to
                > chess is a dead giveway: he thinks of the war itself as a giant war-playing
                > game.
                >
                > I think I've finally figured it out. Jackson is not making a film of "The
                > Lord of the Rings." He's making a film of a Lord of the Rings board game.
                > I think that would explain a lot. As a film of Tolkien's book, it sucks
                > and has always sucked. But as a film of a board game, it's really excellent.

                David, you don't know how much I needed a really good belly laugh today. On the
                money as usual.
                Thanks,
                Kevin
              • David S. Bratman
                ... Touche. But I still think the application of the metaphor is typical of Jackson s thinking, not Tolkien s. Notice how Tolkien, almost uniquely among
                Message 7 of 9 , Oct 1, 2003
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                  At 07:19 AM 10/1/2003 , Susan wrote:

                  >Doesn't Gandalf say, at some point in the written RotK, "The board is set,
                  >and the pieces are moving"? I can't find it at the moment, but I have a
                  >distinct memory of that; and if so, the chess metaphor is Tolkien's, not
                  >Jackson's.

                  Touche. But I still think the application of the metaphor is typical of
                  Jackson's thinking, not Tolkien's. Notice how Tolkien, almost uniquely
                  among fantasy authors, is able to write giant strategy sessions (the
                  Council of Elrond and the Last Debate) that don't read like giant strategy
                  sessions.

                  - David Bratman
                • David S. Bratman
                  ... Have you played much chess? A talent of chess masters is to do things which the opponent can physically see but does not realize the significance of.
                  Message 8 of 9 , Oct 1, 2003
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                    At 07:32 AM 10/1/2003 , Janet wrote:

                    >One older article I ran across in my research speculated that Sauron
                    >wouldn't have been that good at chess. He didn't seem to understand feints
                    >and sacrifices, and clearly couldn't see ahead to Gandalf's next moves.
                    >Then there's the gaming metaphor that was used in the original Star Trek
                    >somewhere -- Spock plays chess and Kirk plays poker. Spock's moves and
                    >forces are all out in the open; he has no secrets from his opponent except
                    >what's in his head. Kirk's hand is hidden -- you can't know for sure what
                    >resources he has or what he plans to do with them. So Gandalf is actually
                    >playing poker, not chess....

                    Have you played much chess? A talent of chess masters is to do things
                    which the opponent can physically see but does not realize the significance
                    of. Sauron knows perfectly well that spies are being sent into Mordor. He
                    even captures one, and has his Lieutenant use his belongings to taunt the
                    invaders at the Black Gate. What he doesn't know is the significance of
                    what is happening. Frodo putting on the Ring at Mount Doom is as much the
                    equivalent of Gandalf suddenly and unexpectedly making a check or even a
                    checkmate as it is of Gandalf laying down the winning poker hand.

                    - David Bratman
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