Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [mythsoc] Dewey Decimal Owner Sues 'Library' Hotel

Expand Messages
  • David S. Bratman
    ... That s a little weak, though. I for one didn t even know that OCLC had bought DDC. And while presumably all libraries using DDC pay a fee for using it
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 23, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      OCLC's real complaint seems to be expressed in the article's last paragraph:

      >Joseph Dreitler, a lawyer representing the center, has said people looking
      >at the hotel's Web site might think the hotel was connected with the owner
      >of the Dewey Decimal System.

      That's a little weak, though. I for one didn't even know that OCLC had
      bought DDC. And while presumably all libraries using DDC pay a fee for
      using it (something else I didn't know), and are thereby "connected" or
      "authorized" with OCLC, it's a pretty weak form of connection. And some of
      them, I know well, tinker with the schedules as much as the Library Hotel does.

      There's certainly no copyright issue, if (as the article suggests) the
      hotel only uses the ten main classes. (The room numbers, as Janet points
      out, are not real Dewey numbers; they're just formatted like real numbers.)
      The ten classes are unchanged since Dewey's original edition, and are thus
      long out of copyright.

      The hotel could solve the problem by posting a tiny notice on its web site
      saying "Not connected with the Online Computer Library Center." OCLC's
      claim of a presumption of connection reminds me of Bill O'Reilly claiming
      that a tiny picture of him in a tv screen on the cover of Al Franken's book
      implied that he endorsed it. Fox got laughed out of court when they sued
      over that; may OCLC meet the same fate.

      If the Library Hotel really mixed up the meaning of the Dewey classes -
      which they're not doing - I'd be unhappy about it, but I wouldn't consider
      it a suing matter. I'd have stayed in the hotel had I known about it when
      I was last in New York, and I'm no less likely to want to go there in the
      future.

      - David Bratman
    • Croft, Janet B
      I cataloged exclusively with DDC at my previous library. I never paid them any fee just for the use of the system -- I never assumed I might not be able to
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 23, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        I cataloged exclusively with DDC at my previous library. I never paid them
        any "fee" just for the use of the system -- I never assumed I might not be
        able to purchase a used, older edition of the DDC hardbacks and catalog from
        them if I wanted to. But I did shell out an annual fee for purchasing and
        updating the DDC on CD-ROM, because I wanted the most up-to-date revisions.
        I knew OCLC *published* the DDC, but I didn't think they owned rights to all
        versions, forever and amen. But they have revamped their website within the
        past few weeks, and hidden the old list of the Dewey 100s and 1000s you used
        to be able to print out -- it's still there as a PDF, but very well hidden
        indeed. Interesting -- like they were planning something like this...

        Neil Gaiman's weblog has a review of the Library Hotel -- biggest complaint
        was no room service. No restaurant on the premises. But other people have
        given it glowing reviews. I'd give you the link but our campus internet is
        down right now, though email still works.

        Janet Croft

        -----Original Message-----
        From: David S. Bratman [mailto:dbratman@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 2:54 PM
        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [mythsoc] Dewey Decimal Owner Sues 'Library' Hotel


        OCLC's real complaint seems to be expressed in the article's last paragraph:

        >Joseph Dreitler, a lawyer representing the center, has said people looking
        >at the hotel's Web site might think the hotel was connected with the owner
        >of the Dewey Decimal System.

        That's a little weak, though. I for one didn't even know that OCLC had
        bought DDC. And while presumably all libraries using DDC pay a fee for
        using it (something else I didn't know), and are thereby "connected" or
        "authorized" with OCLC, it's a pretty weak form of connection. And some of
        them, I know well, tinker with the schedules as much as the Library Hotel
        does.

        There's certainly no copyright issue, if (as the article suggests) the
        hotel only uses the ten main classes. (The room numbers, as Janet points
        out, are not real Dewey numbers; they're just formatted like real numbers.)
        The ten classes are unchanged since Dewey's original edition, and are thus
        long out of copyright.

        The hotel could solve the problem by posting a tiny notice on its web site
        saying "Not connected with the Online Computer Library Center." OCLC's
        claim of a presumption of connection reminds me of Bill O'Reilly claiming
        that a tiny picture of him in a tv screen on the cover of Al Franken's book
        implied that he endorsed it. Fox got laughed out of court when they sued
        over that; may OCLC meet the same fate.

        If the Library Hotel really mixed up the meaning of the Dewey classes -
        which they're not doing - I'd be unhappy about it, but I wouldn't consider
        it a suing matter. I'd have stayed in the hotel had I known about it when
        I was last in New York, and I'm no less likely to want to go there in the
        future.

        - David Bratman



        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

        ADVERTISEMENT

        <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17050202
        27:HM/A=1754016/R=0/SIG=11pv1u2ju/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3052
        9&media=atkins> click here

        <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupmai
        l/S=:HM/A=1754016/rand=911119548>

        The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
        <http://www.mythsoc.org>

        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
        <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jack
        ... http://neilgaiman.com/journal/journal.asp Neil complains about room service a lot . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 23, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          >Neil Gaiman's weblog has a review of the Library Hotel -- biggest complaint
          >was no room service. No restaurant on the premises. But other people have
          >given it glowing reviews. I'd give you the link but our campus internet is
          >down right now, though email still works.


          http://neilgaiman.com/journal/journal.asp

          Neil complains about room service a lot <grin>.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Croft, Janet B
          Thanks, Jack. If I d just waited a few minutes the internet would have been back... Janet ... From: Jack [mailto:jack@greenmanreview.com] Sent: Tuesday,
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 23, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            Thanks, Jack. If I'd just waited a few minutes the internet would have been
            back...

            Janet

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Jack [mailto:jack@...]
            Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 4:06 PM
            To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [mythsoc] Dewey Decimal Owner Sues 'Library' Hotel



            >Neil Gaiman's weblog has a review of the Library Hotel -- biggest complaint
            >was no room service. No restaurant on the premises. But other people have
            >given it glowing reviews. I'd give you the link but our campus internet is
            >down right now, though email still works.


            http://neilgaiman.com/journal/journal.asp
            <http://neilgaiman.com/journal/journal.asp>

            Neil complains about room service a lot <grin>.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

            ADVERTISEMENT

            <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17050202
            27:HM/A=1754016/R=0/SIG=11pv1u2ju/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3052
            9&media=atkins> click here

            <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupmai
            l/S=:HM/A=1754016/rand=273894946>

            The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
            <http://www.mythsoc.org>

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
            <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Croft, Janet B
            That s a question for David -- I don t use LC. But since it s produced by the Library of Congress, maybe it s a government document and therefore public
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 23, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              That's a question for David -- I don't use LC. But since it's produced by
              the Library of Congress, maybe it's a government document and therefore
              public domain?

              Janet (going farther and farther astray from Mythsoc topics... but one more
              won't hurt)

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Jack [mailto:jack@...]
              Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 4:35 PM
              To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [mythsoc] Dewey Decimal Owner Sues 'Library' Hotel



              >Thanks, Jack. If I'd just waited a few minutes the internet would have
              been
              >back...

              No prob. It is a rather interesting story.

              IS the LoC system copyrighted?

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

              ADVERTISEMENT

              <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17050202
              27:HM/A=1706996/R=0/SIG=11p5b9ris/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3050
              9&media=atkins> click here

              <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupmai
              l/S=:HM/A=1706996/rand=276788632>

              The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
              <http://www.mythsoc.org>

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
              <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jack
              ... No prob. It is a rather interesting story. IS the LoC system copyrighted? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 23, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                >Thanks, Jack. If I'd just waited a few minutes the internet would have been
                >back...

                No prob. It is a rather interesting story.

                IS the LoC system copyrighted?

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.