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24140Re: [mythsoc] naugladur

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  • Andrew Higgins
    Feb 22, 2013
      Patrick 

      Many thanks for catching my NAKA past tense error (sloppy Tolkien linguistics mea culpa) .   Have amended my notes for this interesting crux (like Tolkien I am keeping notebooks of linguistic cruxes - although unlike his three blue Beowulf crux notebooks mine are being kept on Evernote) correcting this error and incorporating both yours and Jason's notes. The reflection of Elvish bias on the construction of this name (and we know where that came from!) is quite interesting and one to trace through the early legendarium. 

      Also intrigued with the Nauglafring story which appears both in the Silmarillion papers and is mentioned in The Hobbit (John Rateliff's excellent work on the Sillmarillion/Hobbit link has inspired me to find more of these links.)  In re-reading The Hobbit for Verlyn Flieger's current Tolkien and Middle Earth course (directly after re-reading John's History of the Hobbit for Professor Corey Olsen's Hobbit course!) I was struck for the first time with Gandalf's final words of farewell to the Eagles 

      'May the wind under your wings bear you where the sun sails and the moon walks.' (Hobbit, p.354) 

      Just another little fragment of the greater mythology peeping into The Hobbit, 

      I have also double checked all the name lists and Naugladur as a name with a gloss does not appear - so to get to the name I guess it is a matter of Tolkienian reconstruction. 

      Thanks Andy 



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      On 22 Feb 2013, at 02:19, Patrick Wynne <pwynne@...> wrote:

       


      On Feb 21, 2013, at 5:36 PM, Jason Fisher <visualweasel@...> wrote:

       
      > In the Gnomish Lexicon - the first part of his name (NAUGL) is glossed as (PE 11: 59)
      > - NAUGL - same as NAUG (a dwarf) from Qenya NAUKA

      > Now there is no Qenya word for NAUKA [...]
      Actually, there is. Quenya nauko "a dwarf" appears under NAUK in the Etymologies (The Lost Road), with additional notes in the Addenda and Corrigenda to the Etymologies (Vinyar Tengwar 45, p. 37). There is also an entry in the Addenda/Corrigenda for DUR (p. 11), though it is empty and struck through.

      I think what Andrew meant by "there is no Qenya word for NAUKA" is that this word does not appear in the Qenya Lexicon in that form, nor is its root immediately obvious among those given in QL. Andrew's supposition that there may be some connection with NAQA 'steal, take' is quit interesting, and NAVA 'suspect, guess, have an inkling of' might also be connected, considering that some of its derivatives could apply to the negative portrait of Dwarves in the Tales, e.g., _naus_ 'suspicion'. Moreover, there is an isolated pair of forms _nauto_ and _nawa-_ (perhaps a noun and verb respectively) that appear above the entry for NAVA in the QL manuscript, though separated from it by a space of four lines, and _nauto_ here draws VERY close to _nautar_ 'dwarves', which as Andrew notes appears in the chart "The Creatures of the Earth" (Parma 14, pg. 9) contemporary with the Lost Tales (_Nautar_ also appears as a name for the Dwarves in a rejected outline for "The Tale of the Nauglafring", LT II pg. 136).

      BTW, I should note that Andrew's statement that "there is the Qenya Base Root NAKA bite which has a past tense form NAUKE" is in error — the pa.t. of _naka-_ 'bite' in QL is _nanke_ (and also _náke_).

      > DUR - could possibly come from the Qenya base root TUR (PE 12: 96) with
      > the consonant mutation changing the /T/ to /D/  (PE 11: 7) 

      Close, but I think it's more straightforward. I think this is actually just the root (N)DUR "bow down, obey, serve" (see Parma Eldalamberon 17, p. 167). This would be the same element in Isildur (see PE 16, p. 28).

      I find Andrew's proposal more likely, given that both the elements he cites occur in sources contemporary with the Lost Tales. _Naugladur_ is apparently simply Goldogrin for *'King of the Dwarves' — cf. Gn. _tûr_ 'king' in the Gnomish Lexicon. The problem with proposing NDUR as a source of the second element in _Naugladur_ is that so far as I know NDUR is a _later_ invention; there does not seem to be an equivalent to it in either the Gnomish or Qenya Lexicons, and the appearance of NDUR in documents written decades _after_ the Lost Tales does not make a compelling case for it appearing in _Naugladur_. In the later names in which it appears as a suffix, _-ndur_ meant 'to serve' the person or thing named as the first element in the compound: _arandur_ 'king's servant, minister', _Earendur_ '(professional) mariner', lit. *'servant of the sea' (Letters pg. 386, note). We could suppose that in _Naugladur_ it meant rather 'one who is served, lord' — but this is pointless speculation when the root very likely did not yet exist when the Lost Tales were written.

      But to John's original question, is there an official gloss, meaning one directly from Tolkien himself? No, I don't think so. At least, I haven't seen one.


      Agreed on all counts here — I know of no translation of this form by Tolkien, and all of the Lost Tales linguistic material has been published at this point.

      — Pat

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