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19424RE: [mythsoc] Re: two queries

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  • David Bratman
    Feb 13, 2008
      Mike -

      You write in a tough fact-citing tone that sounds as if you're disputing something that I said, but I cannot figure out what it might be.

      Frodo's odd and inappropriate behavior was, as I said, in the first draft, not the final draft. And then, as I wrote, "It took Tolkien's conscious a while to catch on to what his subconscious was doing." But when he figured it out, he wrote the excellent final text that you quote. Now isn't that marvelous, perhaps even more so than if he'd gotten it right the first time?

      "Conclude what you will, the fact is ..." you write, but I never said otherwise. "That he revised [the story] is fact," you also write, as indeed it is fact, and I took the liberty of assuming readers of this list would know that, without my having to shake the Ballantine paperback edition of _The Return of the King_ at them.

      David B.

      -----Original Message-----
      >From: Mike Foster <mafoster@...>
      >Sent: Feb 13, 2008 8:10 PM
      >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: RE: [mythsoc] Re: two queries
      >
      >".but at the top of the Roll in all accounts stand the names of Captains
      >Meriadoc and Peregrin.
      >"Frodo had been in the battle, but he had not drawn sword, and his chief
      >part had been to prevent the hobbits, in their wrath at their losses,
      >from slaying those of their enemies who threw down their weapons."
      >
      >p. 365, "The Scouring of the Shire," _The Return of the King_,
      >Ballantine paperback edition.
      >
      >Conclude what you will; the fact is that Frodo's heroism is finally not
      >that of a warrior. Why Tolkien revised his story thus is conjecture;
      >that he did so is fact.
      >
      >_Pax vobiscum_
      >Mike
      >
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      >Of David Bratman
      >Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:53 PM
      >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: two queries
      >
      >Tolkien had already written Frodo renouncing the carrying of weapons in
      >Mordor when he drafted the initial versions of the Scouring in which
      >Frodo fights Sharky in single combat and does other improbable things.
      >It took Tolkien's conscious a while to catch on to what his subconscious
      >was doing.
      >
      >Lynn Maudlin <lynnmaudlin@ <mailto:lynnmaudlin%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com>
      >wrote:
      >
      >>--- In mythsoc@yahoogroups <mailto:mythsoc%40yahoogroups.com> .com,
      >"Mike Foster" <mafoster@...> wrote:
      >>>
      >>> For what it's worth, in the early drafts of the final chapters of
      >_The
      >>> Lord of the Rings_, narrating the events leading up to the scouring
      >of
      >>> the Shire, many of the defiant words and deeds are Frodo's. In
      >>> revision, Tolkien transferred these to Pippin and more often Merry.
      >>>
      >>> --MAF
      >>
      >>I don't know what you expect us to conclude from that, Mike - my own
      >>conclusion is that Frodo's journey was not that of a warrior and his
      >>sacrifice was not made with a sword. But I don't think that means
      >>Frodo didn't support Merry and Pippin in *their* call to be brave
      >>battling hobbits--
      >
      >
      >
      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
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