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16909Re: [mythsoc] Re: A Landscape with Dragons

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  • Mike Foster
    Aug 28, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      "Never laugh at live dragons" was one of the first proverbs Bilbo
      coined, after all.

      Mike

      jef.murray wrote:

      > Yes, but we both know, Mike, that dragons are deceptive.
      >_Looking_ benevolent is is not at all the same as _behaving_
      >in a benevolent fashion ;-)
      >
      > Jef
      >
      >
      >
      >--- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Mike Foster <mafoster@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >>Many readers, including quite possibly Lewis & Tolkien, would know
      >>
      >>
      >about
      >
      >
      >>Kenneth Grahame's -The Reluctant Dragon-, and those familiar with Jef's
      >>art know he does quite good representations of rather benevolent
      >>
      >>
      >dragons
      >
      >
      >>as well: parenthetical observation.
      >>
      >>Mike
      >>
      >>jef.murray wrote:
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>> Symbols for a particular culture largely _don't_ change
      >>>meaning...Jung's life work underscored this. And regarding
      >>>other cultures, O'Brien is basically dealing with occidental
      >>>tradition and myth, which consistently (until the 20th century)
      >>>depicted snakes and dragons as evil.
      >>>
      >>> Regarding the notion that anyone trying to make a dragon
      >>>good is "committing a sin", I think that overstates O'Brien's
      >>>case. He suggests that trying to change the meaning of traditional
      >>>symbols confuses and can be hurtful, especially to children. This
      >>>is consistent with a pre-modern mindset, which suggests that there
      >>>_is_ such a thing as tradition versus "all things being relative".
      >>>All O'Brien is doing is pointing out the same things that virtually
      >>>any European would have told you prior to about 100-150 years ago.
      >>>
      >>> And, like Tolkien and Lewis, O'Brien would largely consider himself
      >>>pre-modern in outlook, and quite proud of it(!).
      >>>
      >>> Jef
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>--- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, David Emerson <emerdavid@> wrote:
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>>>While I disagree strongly with O'Brien's conclusions, I must come to
      >>>>>his defense that the book was much more nuanced than that. Yes,
      >>>>>O'Brien is an extremely conservative Catholic, but his argument is
      >>>>>that certain symbols can never change in meaning, so a dragon is
      >>>>>always evil and that anyone who tries to make a dragon good is wrong
      >>>>>and committing sin.
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>Well, he's got two assumptions there that are open to question.
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>One, that symbols never change meaning, and two, that dragons are
      >>>evil. Call me a heretic if you like, but aren't there ancient
      >>>cultures in this world who view dragons as wise and good?
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>>emerdavid
      >>>>
      >>>>________________________________________
      >>>>PeoplePC Online
      >>>>A better way to Internet
      >>>>http://www.peoplepc.com
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
      >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
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      >
      >
      >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
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