16085Re: Attributes Recognized during the Coronation Scene -- & about Ged
- Dec 26, 2005approach, portrays Gollum as opposed to the way Le Guin, who has read
> her Jung, portray's Ged's Shadow.In fact
Le Guin has stated (in several contexts) that she only read Jung
*after* she had written "Wizard of Earthsea". This actually makes
sense, The Shadow is an archetype, one that Jung himself discussed as
being a part of human unconscious and culture and not a creation of
his own. His descriptions and analysis of The Shadow does depart for
the journey Ged makes in a couple of interesting ways (that I won't go
into further here ) Le Guin, rather, drew on tales of "filgia"
(Norway) and the "ka" of ancient Egypt to create her story. (It is
close enough to make for an interesting assignment for both freshman
writing and psychology students, BTW.) Here is kind of a neat eassy
about Earthsea: http://www.ursulakleguin.com/Mahy-Earthsea.html
To Le Guin's credit, she does discuss Jung & Ged in her later
interviews, saying that he did influence her later Earthsea books. I
am of the opinion that Taoism influences her rather more. I don't
have a direct quote from her about it, but I also suspect that the
Gilgamesh Epics and the Descent of Innana are intertwined throughout
Earthsea as well. I have a theory that some images are so deep in our
consciousness that they "show up" unbidden in all sorts of
placesincluding Narnia. (As Jung certainly predicted, as did, of
course, Eliade, Campbell, and others ) Perhaps the Coronation Scene
has this quality as well. (Remember that playing cards have two kings
and two queens, too based upon Tarot, true, but it's a "story" that
is *there* in various forms in ancient myth as well. That the two
Kings and two Queens are *there* still suggests an image buried deeply
in the unconscious ) Or, maybe the scriptwriter was "playing" with
imagery of his own as well. (I haven't seen the film *yet*.) Would
make an interesting paper ... I am intrigued.
What never fails to amaze me is that so many English teachers won't
recommend Le Guin's books... too intellectual is the criticism I hear
most often. This puzzles me greatly, most of the children I have
given copies to love the books.
The good news is that I have (finally!) a line on publishing my
dissertation and soon, you can all read of my brilliant thoughts on
all of the above and more...of course, it is on UMI. (I actually could
use a little assistance in getting it into a book that everyone can
read -- any suggestions for resources?) Lezlie
--- In email@example.com, John D Rateliff <sacnoth@e...> wrote:
> I don't think CSL knew enough about the tarot, except in a very
> superficial sense, but I suspect you could find some of the symbolic
> analogies you're looking for in THE DISCARDED IMAGE.
> Of course, symbols can be present without the author's being
> aware of them (Tolkien's "applicability"), so the quartet of Narnian
> kings and queens could be interpreted from the tarot, but I'd be wary
> of saying that Lewis meant them in those terms. There's a big
> difference between the way Tolkien, who disdained the Jungian
> approach, portrays Gollum as opposed to the way Le Guin, who has read
> her Jung, portray's Ged's Shadow.
> I'm pretty sure CSL was entirely uninformed about Kaballah.
> Likewise astrology.
> Thanks for sharing; it was an interesting 'take' on the pattern.
> On Dec 17, 2005, at 10:26 AM, Cai Cherie wrote:
> > I have been playing with the puzzle of the pattern to the
> > titles and attributes voiced as each of the Penvesie children is
> > crowned at the end of the LWW movie. It was easy to see that -a-
> > pattern was meant, but what exactly -the- pattern was and meant,
> > well, that was another matter. I was going in circles till someone
> > mentioned the 4 cardinal virtues and then everything seemed to fall
> > into place. Or a type of place. There is still room for doubt but
> > the beginnings of sense is appearing. This may have all been
> > bloody obvious to some but for others (like me) it may need some
> > explanation.
> > The 4 cardinal virtues are commonly given as Fortitude/Stength,
> > Temperance, Prudence and Justice. Many feel this corresponds to 4
> > Tarot cards, the cards for Strength, Temperance, The Hermit and
> > Justice. Now, the Tarot does not just have to be used for just
> > fortune-telling. It can be used for its symbolic worth, for
> > meditation and for something called path-working. As such, in the
> > late 19th century, first a French magician, Elephas Levi, and then,
> > a bit later, a British one, Samuel Liddel McGregor Mathers, worked
> > out somewhat different correspondances tween a teaching of Jewish
> > mysticism, The Kabbalah and the Tarot cards, plus astrology and
> > the Hebrew letters (and more, but these are the ones I am most
> > familiar with.) Mathers, who was one of the 3 founders of the
> > Golden Dawn, basicially influenced the Brits who went on to do
> > further work with magical correspondances, most notably Fortune,
> > Crowley and Waite, and all who studied with them. Such as Charles
> > Williams, who, as we know,
> > belonged to a later Waitian order.
> > So -- where is this longwinded, historical exposition going?
> > Well, to this, the 4 Tarot cards for the 4 virtues, when seen as
> > Kabbalahic correspondances form a sort of cross right at the center
> > of the Kaballah, around a Sefirot called Tiferet, which can mean
> > Beauty, Grace, Mediation and can be symbolized by the heart, a king
> > or a sacrifice. It is the Sefirot where, if one is doing Christian
> > Kabbalah, Jesus Christ is often conceptulized. Its color is golden
> > yellow. If one were to look at Narnia and analyze it by the
> > Kabbala, it is the obvious, really, really obvious place where one
> > would conceptualize Aslan (well, that and Chesed) ( and part of me
> > is kicking myself for not having thought of this -years- ago. Doh!)
> > From this Sefirot , are 4 radiating arms or paths that can lead
> > to or away to other Sefirot. To the North is the path of the card
> > for Strength/Fortitude. Its is associated with Leo, with kingship.
> > The Hebrew letter is Tet -- Resolve, Truth, The Intention of
> > Sharing the Goodness of these (or leadership.) Peter is crowned as
> > from the North. This path leads or descends from the Sefirot of
> > Keter, the Crown, the Emperor over the Sea(Keter is associated with
> > Neptune.)
> > Ahh-- you say, but Strength is not Magnificenece, thou close.
> > Perhaps, but Tet certianly is. The attibutes of Tet are exactly
> > those of Magnificience if one thinks about Magnificence not as our
> > contemporary, overused word for tacky overconsumption, but as
> > Lewis would have used it, thought it, felt it. As the personifying
> > attribute of Prince Arthur, King Arthur, the Once and Future
> > Really Big Mahoff, as proposed by Edmund Spenser in his letter
> > outlining his intention, his resolve, for the Fairy Queen. Anyone
> > who has been touched by Spenser will vibrate to that association.
> > (I need to go back and reread Lewis's book on Spenser.) BTW -- one
> > of the occult titles for this path is " The Secret Force of All
> > Spiritual Activity." (and, synthasizing symbology still further --
> > may The Force be with you too.)
> > To the East is the path of The Hermit, Prudence, Wisdom, which is
> > considered Spiritual Movement. The Hebrew letter is Yod, the Will.
> > One of the titles for it is, " The Isolated Self in the World of
> > Illusions" -- (did I mention Homer's favorite expression -- "the
> > rosey fingers of the DOH" yet?) And Lucy certially knows what -
> > that- feels like. The astrological sign is Virgo, the virgin and
> > the card itself usually shows a cloaked figure in the lonely wild
> > with a ... lantern. To have been so curious, to have explored so
> > bravely, to have been so open to the new, takes valience. Mental
> > valience, mental fight. If Lewis was a knight of the intellect,
> > Lucy was his valient virgin by a lantern in the waste. Her path
> > leads from or to Chesed, which is Mercy, Clemency, Unconditional
> > Love and it is associated with Jupiter and expansion.
> > From the West is Edmund the Just. His path is the trump called
> > Justice. Its sign is Libra, its letter is Lamed, --learning, law--
> > and Edmund certianly learns about justice and law. It is because of
> > his actions that we learn about the truest law, the Deep Magic. He
> > is on the path to or from Gevurah, Serverity, Judgement or
> > Punishment, which is ruled by Mars and Scorpio.
> > Susan the Gentle from the South is on the path of Temperence. An
> > old fashioned way of saying that you are tempering something is to
> > say you are gentling it. It is ruled by Sagaterious (so she gets
> > the bow and arrow) and the letter Samech. Samech means protection,
> > support, and Susan is the slightly fiery and occaisionally bossy
> > little mother, providing just that, whether it is appropriate or
> > not. It also means conscience and there is a strong mental aspect
> > to Susan -- she likes to be smart, to do the common sense thing--
> > part of her quest is to temper, gentle, this part of herself. Her
> > path leads to or from Yesod, ruled by the Moon and Cancer. and
> > signifying a womb, a foundation, generation and also, interestingly
> > enough, redemption. Perhaps Lewis did have farther plans for Susan.
> > Remember, Aslan is at the center of all this, the foci of the
> > cross, the Spirit at the center of the 4 elements. I know some of
> > you may think I'm a bit daft at this point, but I see this as
> > pretty obvious. And for those who think I'm daft, thank you for
> > reading thru such a long, detail-ridden message.
> > What I'm wondering about now, the big question, is what this has
> > to say about Lewis's knowledge of the Western Mystery Tradition.
> > Obviously he knew all the Medieval and Renaissance material, that
> > is a given. But it looks like, by attributing the virtues to the
> > children that he did, that he was quite possibly aware of 19th and
> > 20th century developments that tie together the Kabbala and Tarot.
> > Was this through his earlier friendship with Williams? From his
> > own study? Where is this coming from ... and why did the movie
> > chose to reinforce it with extra imagery taken from the same
> > framework? If I may say, this seems to open an interesting,
> > previously unexplored door in Lewis studies.
> > Should I rework this piece for the Mythlore movie review thing?
> > Would it include enough movie stuff to qualify? I do feel there is
> > something new here, thou I only stumbled upon it because of others'
> > kind promptings. And this puzzles me, others must have noticed
> > some of this stuff before now. Why has it never been written up?
> > I don't remember Gareth Knight's book on the Inklings covering
> > this. Since much of my first, now half-forgotten knowledge of
> > Kabbalah and Tarot comes from an earlier book by him, why didn't
> > Knight mention anything? Or did he, and I missed it?
> > ---------
> > Hey-- I finaly wrote a post without insulting anybody! I had not
> > realized how much my style rests on snide humor and
> > overexageration till I decided to gentle it. As Lewis says -- you
> > never know quite how bad you are till you try to change for the
> > better...
> > But how does one keep the humor but loose the snide? .... hmmmm.
> > Or show something for what it is without being unfair? Double hmmmm.
> > Or not let lies thrown around by others get so far up one's
> > capacious nose?
> > Cai
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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