15328Re: [mythsoc] O.W.L.'s in Harry Potter (spoiler at end)
- Aug 2, 2005Grace -
I really think you'd better read it again.
Sam leaves Frodo because he thinks Frodo is dead. There's no point in
taking a dead body, nowhere in Mordor to take it to. If he'd realized
Frodo were alive, he would have moved him. Sam is perfectly capable of
carrying a near-comatose Frodo later on, and if he'd carried him in the
manner that Sean Astin carries Elijah Wood (though he didn't), he could
have carried him completely comatose too. Staying there and not moving,
mutely waiting for the Orcs to come, is not the only other option. So the
quote in which Sam points out he'd saved the Ring is pointless as a
rebuttal. In fact it shows the problem up even more seriously, because in
going back for Frodo he was risking the Ring further.
And since you're so eager to point out that waiting by Frodo's body would
have been the wrong decision, let me point out, again, that Sam makes that
decision also. Two wrong decisions, not just one! Thank you for reminding
me of that. This is when he still thinks Frodo is dead:
"I can't help it. My place is by Mr. Frodo. They must understand that --
Elrond and the Council and the great Lords and Ladies with all their
wisdom. Their plans have gone wrong. I can't be their Ring-bearer. Not
without Mr. Frodo."
And let me add further what Sam means when he says that he can't help it:
"I wonder if any song will ever mention it: How Samwise fell in the High
Pass and made a wall of bodies round his master. No, no song. Of course
not, for the Ring'll be found, and there'll be no more songs."
That is his intention at the moment he says it.
The point of the part of this story is not that Sam makes the right or wise
decision. He doesn't, he's as fallible as anyone. The point is that
divine mercy saves him because he approaches his task with the right
intent, same as it does for Frodo later.
>I still think my example of a good book making one want to read other booksAh, but what other books? The desire to read specifically a direct sequel
- what happens to these characters next? - is the one I was querying. The
best sequels are oblique. LOTR is not about what happens to Bilbo next
(though it tells you that).
>And since we don't know the final outcome of what happens at the birdbath, itThey went to the birdbath to destroy the thingie. There was no thingie to
>isn't futile according to your dictionary.
destroy. Instead, Dumbledore suffers. That's called "futile". If
something good comes out of it later, that's called "authorial
plot-pushing." It's also called "it happens, if at all, in book 7, and you
don't know any more than I do, so if I can't say it's futile, you can't say
it's not futile."
>I don't think the *action* is the only thing that matters here. As I postedOh, it's interesting and revealing, but that doesn't make the trip any less
>before, what happens with Harry is extremely important.
- << Previous post in topic Next post in topic >>