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Re: [musicdish_network] Smackdown on mediocre promotion.

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  • Christopher Nelson
    Finally! Someone sees the light! Too many people are charging bands and artists for things they could be doing themselves (and probably a beter job at it,
    Message 1 of 5 , May 29, 2005
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      Finally! Someone sees the light! Too many people are charging bands and artists for things they could be doing themselves (and probably a beter job at it, too!). There are lots of freebies out there, you just have to look for them!
       
      Chris
      Guitarist, Fishkill


      Louis Lamp <louis.lamp@...> wrote:
      Something lit a fire in me tonight.  It happened after spending three
      days of adding links and generally updating my site.  I began looking
      at a lot of promotion pages for artists, and found that many will take
      a description paragraph about a band and copy.  Then paste.

      I have no problem with it if it's free promotion (like I do), but as
      soon as it's paid promotion, I have a problem with it.  Most promoters
      I know charge anywhere from $25/hour, or $250 and upwards per month
      (and that's only for the minimum package).

      Promoters get paid a lot of money to be innovative, original, and
      creative.  Not to just click Copy, and paste something someone else
      already wrote.  True, syndication is good, but repetition is bad.  It
      might also just be the uniqueness of jumping through hoops at times to
      find a band description, and then find literal repitition all over the
      place.

      But, some of the places I find repeating the artist charge ludicrous
      amounts of money, or they'll take 'donations'.  I almost had a run in
      with giving 'donations' to several 'promoters' and didn't fully
      understand what my side of the bargain was - as with a donation, there
      is no guarantee of work.  Contract form or no contract.  A donation
      absolves all of that.

      I'll gladly take donations, like anybody else.  Heck, I might even
      sponsor a show or two, if I have the money.  But, if I'm sponsoring
      something, then there'd better be something in it for me.  As much as
      I throw money around paying for this and that and getting rid of
      growing debt, I can't just give money away.  Nor am I rich.  The
      promoters I deal with are smart, asking for pay in advance, as I run
      out of money before I run out of month.

      There's nothing wrong with quoting the band's description... "And
      here's what others say the band is..." so you have a pagecopy of the
      description, and help the band get better search engine ranks.  Heck,
      for those who've written reviews of An Open Mind, a couple of them
      have quoted entire reviews of the album, for which I give many thanks.

      The last bit that I have to bring up to bring this rant to a close on
      a more positive note is news syndication.  For the DIY bands, and for
      the DIY bands' friends, each person writing an original press release
      and releasing it will garner better results than just one that gets
      written by one person.  This is for grassroots press releases.  If I
      could afford to pay half a dozen publicists for every press release I
      do, I would.

      So, there is the end of the rant.

      Do you like hockey?

      --
      Louis Lamp
      Music to Soothe To
      http://www.paradice.net
      706-772-4470




      Fishkill
      shut up and listen...
       
    • Bert Gagnon
      Louis, Good Point!!! Promoters are basically scavengers that thrive on the efforts of others (there are good promoters out there at a high price) but they are
      Message 2 of 5 , May 29, 2005
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        Louis,

        Good Point!!! Promoters are basically scavengers that
        thrive on the efforts of others (there are good
        promoters out there at a high price) but they are an
        evil necessity, sort of. Self promotion is the way to
        go. I would recommend any band out there create a fan
        club run by a friend or family member. The results of
        fan clubs are amazing. Don't forget, you got this
        tidbit for free. (Press releases are rarely taken
        seriously, unfortunately as everyone has their own
        agenda and too many press releases makes the media,
        clubs etc..., close their minds even furthur.
        Persistance without being a pain in the neck is
        important in promotion). Here's another free tidbit.
        Establish a relationship with local media, club
        owners, promoters (regardless of their politics) and
        anyone else that has a stake in your success. It's
        tough to tell a friend that he/she is being a pain in
        the neck...this is where your people skills come in.
        Thanks
        Bert Gagnon
        Neon Productions
        Musictogousa.com
        The Songwriter's Network
        Kickback Radio
        --- Louis Lamp <louis.lamp@...> wrote:

        ---------------------------------
        Something lit a fire in me tonight. It happened after
        spending three
        days of adding links and generally updating my site.
        I began looking
        at a lot of promotion pages for artists, and found
        that many will take
        a description paragraph about a band and copy. Then
        paste.

        I have no problem with it if it's free promotion (like
        I do), but as
        soon as it's paid promotion, I have a problem with it.
        Most promoters
        I know charge anywhere from $25/hour, or $250 and
        upwards per month
        (and that's only for the minimum package).

        Promoters get paid a lot of money to be innovative,
        original, and
        creative. Not to just click Copy, and paste something
        someone else
        already wrote. True, syndication is good, but
        repetition is bad. It
        might also just be the uniqueness of jumping through
        hoops at times to
        find a band description, and then find literal
        repitition all over the
        place.

        But, some of the places I find repeating the artist
        charge ludicrous
        amounts of money, or they'll take 'donations'. I
        almost had a run in
        with giving 'donations' to several 'promoters' and
        didn't fully
        understand what my side of the bargain was - as with a
        donation, there
        is no guarantee of work. Contract form or no
        contract. A donation
        absolves all of that.

        I'll gladly take donations, like anybody else. Heck,
        I might even
        sponsor a show or two, if I have the money. But, if
        I'm sponsoring
        something, then there'd better be something in it for
        me. As much as
        I throw money around paying for this and that and
        getting rid of
        growing debt, I can't just give money away. Nor am I
        rich. The
        promoters I deal with are smart, asking for pay in
        advance, as I run
        out of money before I run out of month.

        There's nothing wrong with quoting the band's
        description... "And
        here's what others say the band is..." so you have a
        pagecopy of the
        description, and help the band get better search
        engine ranks. Heck,
        for those who've written reviews of An Open Mind, a
        couple of them
        have quoted entire reviews of the album, for which I
        give many thanks.

        The last bit that I have to bring up to bring this
        rant to a close on
        a more positive note is news syndication. For the DIY
        bands, and for
        the DIY bands' friends, each person writing an
        original press release
        and releasing it will garner better results than just
        one that gets
        written by one person. This is for grassroots press
        releases. If I
        could afford to pay half a dozen publicists for every
        press release I
        do, I would.

        So, there is the end of the rant.

        Do you like hockey?

        --
        Louis Lamp
        Music to Soothe To
        http://www.paradice.net
        706-772-4470




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      • Louis Lamp
        Hello, I m back again.... Bert and Christopher, thanks for the advice and support. My local scene will soon be changing, due to a curveball the US Army threw
        Message 3 of 5 , Jun 3, 2005
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          Hello, I'm back again....

          Bert and Christopher, thanks for the advice and support. My local
          scene will soon be changing, due to a curveball the US Army threw me
          yesterday. In short, I'm going to be an Army recruiter, coming soon
          to a recruiting station near you. Speaking of stations, one of these
          days I'll have to tune into Kickback Radio (and add a link).

          I recognized the name 'Fishkill' as I already have your page at Makato
          linked on Paradice Net. The invitation for everyone here to add links
          to my website is open for everybody, but I didn't even think about it
          until two particular brain cells began making connections.

          Most of what I find these days (one by one) are freebies, and nothing
          beats free promotion. I've got to go do some paperwork now, but, have
          fun, and I will hopefully return with more interesting rants. Right
          now, I'm just too happy to rant.

          --
          Louis Lamp
          Music to Soothe To at http://www.paradice.net
          Winner of Link Wars 1: http://www.beaudible.com
        • Cameron Mathews
          Agreed... I think that lots of bands could do so much for themselves, but get caught up in some type of trap where they think that paying someone is the way to
          Message 4 of 5 , Jun 3, 2005
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            Agreed...

            I think that lots of bands could do so much for themselves, but get caught
            up in some type of trap where they think that paying someone is the way to
            go. There are a couple of problems with this theory (esp. when it comes to
            promotion). First, most bands that need lots of promotion don't have piles
            of cash they can afford to be throwing to a promoter (donation or
            otherwise). Second, at an early stage in a band's lifecycle there is no way
            that a third party (who is not a friend or family member) can be as
            passionate about the success of the band as the band's members are.

            Funny thing is, this opinion comes from me, over at BandMecca, where we do
            take a portion of sales from artists to ship stuff, and we also have some
            pay-for services... However, when it comes to promotion, whatever services
            we offer are free, and we try to encourage bands to do as much self
            promotion as possible, because even with all our efforts (which we DON'T
            charge for), bands that promote themselves well sell more product. Despite
            that, too many bands or artists still just get lost in how to market
            themselves, which is part of the problem. I think the internet is helping
            with that, but not enough.

            Anyway, it is nice to see a lively discussion highlighting this for bands
            out there who might not be doing all they can. There's lots of stuff that
            IS free out there and some of it actually works.

            Cheers,

            Cameron Mathews
            cameron@...
            Director - BandMecca.com
            http://www.bandmecca.com

            Subject: Re: Smackdown on mediocre promotion.

            Finally! Someone sees the light! Too many people are charging bands and
            artists for things they could be doing themselves (and probably a beter job
            at it, too!). There are lots of freebies out there, you just have to look
            for them!

            Chris
            Guitarist, Fishkill
            Music: www.soundclick.com/fishkill
            Facts: www.fishkillmusic.com
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