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Re: New(?) lathe bed design questions/ Question for Shawn

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  • serge.vereecke
    Hi Costas, Have a look at Youtube Homemade EDM en especially videos by plasmaboog he has several videos, amongst them one where he cuts 15mm thick steel to
    Message 1 of 18 , Apr 5, 2009
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      Hi Costas,

      Have a look at Youtube Homemade EDM en especially videos by "plasmaboog" he has several videos, amongst them one where he cuts 15mm thick steel to make small trainwheels.
      This man is Belgian , going by the
      youtube-handle and page he has ("Plasmaboog = Electric Arc").
      My aim is to make a similar machine.
      But the brass or messing wire he uses to cut is very hard to find.
      I asked him on his youtube-page where he got it from.
      And also I saw that he used water as a cooling agent, as supposed to others using oil, another revelation.

      Happy tinkering,

      Vereecke Serge.

      --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "cvlac" <cvlac0@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Serge
      > Speaking about this kind of machining,(EDM) what kind of work can be machined in this way ?With this I mean, what is the capacity of the works to be machined with a home power electric supply?
      > Costas
      >
      > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "serge.vereecke" <serge.vereecke@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi pat,
      > >
      > > There may be a group on Yahoo that can be interesting,
      > > Look for EDMHomeBuilders.
      > > I am also interested in their equipment, it's a homebuilt Electric
      > > Discharge Machining project to be built by enthousiasts and metalshop
      > > addicts alike.
      > > If you look on their group-page you will be greeted by a picture of a
      > > PCB that's a part of their machine.
      > > With the help of carbon rods or a brass wire an electric current flows between the piece and the wire or carbon rod electrode, the
      > > piece is submerged in oil (non conductive),and the contact surface
      > > between electrode and piece is cooled by that same oil.
      > > It is a machining technique that is very precise.
      > > We learned of it in school, it's called "Vonkverspanen" in dutch.
      > > It is sometimes used to remove broken off bolts or studs (carbon rod
      > > technique), but in the industry it is mostely used to obtain very meticulous and hard to manufacture hardware.
      > > With the wire-technique you can easily cut with high tolerances and
      > > the heat from the electric discharge is dissipated in the cooling oil almost instantaneous.
      > > It is also used for metals that are hard to work with (Titanium,Tungsten(Wolfram),Molybdenium-steel,...)
      > > It is a machining type that was popular before the introduction of
      > > CNC but in the former sovjet-union was continued while overhere we lost interest.
      > > Have a look around on their Yahoo-group.
      > >
      > >
      > > As always Happy Tinkering,
      > >
      > > Vereecke Serge.
      > >
      > > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "Pat Delany" <rigmatch@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Guys, thanks for the help!
      > > >
      > > > Shawn, can you point us to more wet burn info? This is totally new to me but could be very important to a lot of people.
      > > >
      > > > Pat
      > > >
      > > > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, actsiser <actsiser@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > > Question..Can these "U"s be burned out without warping the plate?
      > > > >
      > > > > You can stitch burn. cut a few inches at a time
      > > > > leaving a half inch or so of steel inbetween each stitch,
      > > > > then allow to cool and cut the half inch bits after.
      > > > >
      > > > > Or you can hose clamp a water hose to the torch so it soaks
      > > > > the plate right behind (relative to direction of travel), but
      > > > > not in the cut.
      > > > >
      > > > > You could also make a wet burn table, where
      > > > > the bottom but not the top of the plate is totally immersed
      > > > > in water; this abosorbs almost all the fumes from the torch
      > > > > as well.
      > > > >
      > > > > Shawn.
      > > > >
      > > > > --
      > > > > Shawn
      > > > > actsiser@
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Bruce Bellows
      Hi Costas To give you an example of the cutting capacity of EDM. Last year I had manufactured some slitting anvils for a printing press that were mounted on a
      Message 2 of 18 , Apr 5, 2009
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        Hi Costas
         
        To give you an example of the cutting capacity of EDM. Last year I had manufactured some slitting anvils for a printing press that were mounted on a driven shaft / mandrel. The anvil segments were not split and had a face length of 6", OD = 4" and an ID of 3". They were made from D2 toolsteel and the bore was cored out using EDM to within about .005 of finished ground size. I think the capacity of the EDM machine was 8" depth of cut.
         
        Bruce
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: cvlac
        Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 12:37 AM
        Subject: [multimachine] Re: New(?) lathe bed design questions/ Question for Shawn

        Hi Serge
        Speaking about this kind of machining,(EDM) what kind of work can be machined in this way ?With this I mean, what is the capacity of the works to be machined with a home power electric supply?
        Costas

        --- In multimachine@ yahoogroups. com, "serge.vereecke" <serge.vereecke@ ...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi pat,
        >
        > There may be a group on Yahoo that can be interesting,
        > Look for EDMHomeBuilders.
        > I am also interested in their equipment, it's a homebuilt Electric
        > Discharge Machining project to be built by enthousiasts and metalshop
        > addicts alike.
        > If you look on their group-page you will be greeted by a picture of a
        > PCB that's a part of their machine.
        > With the help of carbon rods or a brass wire an electric current flows between the piece and the wire or carbon rod electrode, the
        > piece is submerged in oil (non conductive), and the contact surface
        > between electrode and piece is cooled by that same oil.
        > It is a machining technique that is very precise.
        > We learned of it in school, it's called "Vonkverspanen" in dutch.
        > It is sometimes used to remove broken off bolts or studs (carbon rod
        > technique), but in the industry it is mostely used to obtain very meticulous and hard to manufacture hardware.
        > With the wire-technique you can easily cut with high tolerances and
        > the heat from the electric discharge is dissipated in the cooling oil almost instantaneous.
        > It is also used for metals that are hard to work with (Titanium,Tungsten( Wolfram), Molybdenium- steel,... )
        > It is a machining type that was popular before the introduction of
        > CNC but in the former sovjet-union was continued while overhere we lost interest.
        > Have a look around on their Yahoo-group.
        >
        >
        > As always Happy Tinkering,
        >
        > Vereecke Serge.
        >
        > --- In multimachine@ yahoogroups. com, "Pat Delany" <rigmatch@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Guys, thanks for the help!
        > >
        > > Shawn, can you point us to more wet burn info? This is totally new to me but could be very important to a lot of people.
        > >
        > > Pat
        > >
        > > --- In multimachine@ yahoogroups. com, actsiser <actsiser@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > Question..Can these "U"s be burned out without warping the plate?
        > > >
        > > > You can stitch burn. cut a few inches at a time
        > > > leaving a half inch or so of steel inbetween each stitch,
        > > > then allow to cool and cut the half inch bits after.
        > > >
        > > > Or you can hose clamp a water hose to the torch so it soaks
        > > > the plate right behind (relative to direction of travel), but
        > > > not in the cut.
        > > >
        > > > You could also make a wet burn table, where
        > > > the bottom but not the top of the plate is totally immersed
        > > > in water; this abosorbs almost all the fumes from the torch
        > > > as well.
        > > >
        > > > Shawn.
        > > >
        > > > --
        > > > Shawn
        > > > actsiser@
        > > >
        > >
        >

      • cvlac
        Hi Bruce Maybe you have not well understood my question. I will try to formulate it in a better way. Heaving a domestic electric power supply of 220V-30A like
        Message 3 of 18 , Apr 5, 2009
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          Hi Bruce
          Maybe you have not well understood my question.
          I will try to formulate it in a better way.
          Heaving a domestic electric power supply of 220V-30A like the mine and others home shop machinists, what kind of machining can be done with this system?And in this environment I want to limit the capacity of this process.
          I'm not speaking about industry standards since I know that they have-dispose a lot of power.In these terms we can estimate if this process is somehow useful to us .
          Have a nice day
          Costas

          --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Bellows" <bbellows@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Costas
          >
          > To give you an example of the cutting capacity of EDM. Last year I had manufactured some slitting anvils for a printing press that were mounted on a driven shaft / mandrel. The anvil segments were not split and had a face length of 6", OD = 4" and an ID of 3". They were made from D2 toolsteel and the bore was cored out using EDM to within about .005 of finished ground size. I think the capacity of the EDM machine was 8" depth of cut.
          >
          > Bruce
          >
        • actsiser
          Hello, EDM s do not use a huge amount of electricity, much less than an arc welder. 220V 30A Should be fine. Otherwise, put in a 50 A breaker. One trick I ve
          Message 4 of 18 , Apr 5, 2009
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            Hello,
            EDM's do not use a huge amount of electricity, much less than an arc welder.
            220V 30A Should be fine. Otherwise, put in a 50 A breaker.
            One trick I've used for 220 V welding machines, is to wire one hot into a 30A breaker and the other hot
            into another 30A and common neutral and ground and you've got a 60A circuit without having to buy
            any new breakers.

            You can also use copper coated mild steel MIG wire for EDM. Easy to find.
            and a saline solution for the electrolyte.

            best,
            Shawn.

            On Sun, Apr 05, 2009 at 04:53:09PM -0000, cvlac wrote:
            > Hi Bruce
            > Maybe you have not well understood my question.
            > I will try to formulate it in a better way.
            > Heaving a domestic electric power supply of 220V-30A like the mine and others home shop machinists, what kind of machining can be done with this system?And in this environment I want to limit the capacity of this process.
            > I'm not speaking about industry standards since I know that they have-dispose a lot of power.In these terms we can estimate if this process is somehow useful to us .
            > Have a nice day
            > Costas
            >
            > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Bellows" <bbellows@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi Costas
            > >
            > > To give you an example of the cutting capacity of EDM. Last year I had manufactured some slitting anvils for a printing press that were mounted on a driven shaft / mandrel. The anvil segments were not split and had a face length of 6", OD = 4" and an ID of 3". They were made from D2 toolsteel and the bore was cored out using EDM to within about .005 of finished ground size. I think the capacity of the EDM machine was 8" depth of cut.
            > >
            > > Bruce
            > >
            >

            --
            Shawn
            actsiser@...
          • David LeVine
            Might I suggest the EDMhomebuilders group as a place to start. Imagine machining a cat shaped cutout in 1/4 hardened steel with 1 tool in 1 pass. See
            Message 5 of 18 , Apr 5, 2009
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              Might I suggest the EDMhomebuilders group as a place to start. Imagine
              machining a cat shaped cutout in 1/4" hardened steel with 1 tool in 1
              pass. See http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/EDMHomeBuilders/ for more
              info.

              --
              David G. LeVine
              Nashua, NH 03060
            • Gene
              Hope nothing goes bad as you are setting yourself up for being killed if something happens. By code all breakers that are going to one appliance are to be tied
              Message 6 of 18 , Apr 5, 2009
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                Hope nothing goes bad as you are setting yourself up for being killed if something happens. By code all breakers that are going to one appliance are to be tied together so if one leg trips it shuts off all power to that circuit. Of coarse you knew that sorry!



                --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, actsiser <actsiser@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello,
                > EDM's do not use a huge amount of electricity, much less than an arc welder.
                > 220V 30A Should be fine. Otherwise, put in a 50 A breaker.
                > One trick I've used for 220 V welding machines, is to wire one hot into a 30A breaker and the other hot
                > into another 30A and common neutral and ground and you've got a 60A circuit without having to buy
                > any new breakers.
                >
                > You can also use copper coated mild steel MIG wire for EDM. Easy to find.
                > and a saline solution for the electrolyte.
                >
                > best,
                > Shawn.
                >
                > On Sun, Apr 05, 2009 at 04:53:09PM -0000, cvlac wrote:
                > > Hi Bruce
                > > Maybe you have not well understood my question.
                > > I will try to formulate it in a better way.
                > > Heaving a domestic electric power supply of 220V-30A like the mine and others home shop machinists, what kind of machining can be done with this system?And in this environment I want to limit the capacity of this process.
                > > I'm not speaking about industry standards since I know that they have-dispose a lot of power.In these terms we can estimate if this process is somehow useful to us .
                > > Have a nice day
                > > Costas
                > >
                > > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Bellows" <bbellows@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hi Costas
                > > >
                > > > To give you an example of the cutting capacity of EDM. Last year I had manufactured some slitting anvils for a printing press that were mounted on a driven shaft / mandrel. The anvil segments were not split and had a face length of 6", OD = 4" and an ID of 3". They were made from D2 toolsteel and the bore was cored out using EDM to within about .005 of finished ground size. I think the capacity of the EDM machine was 8" depth of cut.
                > > >
                > > > Bruce
                > > >
                > >
                >
                > --
                > Shawn
                > actsiser@...
                >
              • serge.vereecke
                To the Honorable Sir Dave of the realm of New Hampshire, I think I had suggested that a couple of mails ago to Costas, but it does good to emphasize, so it
                Message 7 of 18 , Apr 6, 2009
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                  To the Honorable Sir Dave of the realm of New Hampshire,

                  I think I had suggested that a couple of mails ago to Costas,
                  but it does good to emphasize, so it does not fall on a blind ear or
                  a deaf eye.


                  Happy tinkering as always,

                  Vereecke Serge.

                  --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, David LeVine <dlevine144@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Might I suggest the EDMhomebuilders group as a place to start. Imagine
                  > machining a cat shaped cutout in 1/4" hardened steel with 1 tool in 1
                  > pass. See http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/EDMHomeBuilders/ for more
                  > info.
                  >
                  > --
                  > David G. LeVine
                  > Nashua, NH 03060
                  >
                • aaadams@rocketmail.com
                  As a possible alternative, cheap tile saws typically take 7 blades for 1-3/8 in. depth capacity, and dust control via water bath is built-in. Northern has
                  Message 8 of 18 , Apr 6, 2009
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                    As a possible alternative, cheap tile saws typically take 7" blades for 1-3/8 in. depth capacity, and dust control via water bath is built-in. Northern has one for ~$80 US, HF probably cheaper. You would obviously need to improvise tables for the saw and in/out feed. I do not know whether the 1/3 HP is adequate to remove the volume of material required, however.

                    --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "Gene" <gene98329@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Pat you can buy metal cutting discs in various sizes that probably can be used instead of the blade, then you wouldn't have to rig the angle grinder to the saw somehow. HF sells 6" & 7" grinder discs and probably other sizes as well? I use the 6" chop saw quite a bit and the discs are fairly inexpensive. I use them until too small for the chop saw then use them more in the 4 1/2 angle grinder. Just be sure to run your wet vac to grab as much dust as possible and blow out the saw motor and related movable parts as the grinding dust will harm the machine - use a dust mask lungs don't like it either!
                    >
                    > Gene
                    > ...
                    > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "Pat Delany" <rigmatch@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > To answer my own question (maybe)
                    > >
                    > > How about taking the blade off a table saw and mounting the grinderon the table so that the rip fence can be used for a guide?
                    > >
                    > > > ...
                    > > > Question #2, I need a primitive but accurate 4" grinder jig to grind the hot rolled plate edges square.
                    > > > Ideas very welcome!
                    > > > Pat
                  • serge.vereecke
                    Hi Shawn , Are you telling me that it is possible to skip the brass wire and go for ordinary MIG wire? Won t it fuse with the piece your working on? I was
                    Message 9 of 18 , Apr 6, 2009
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                      Hi Shawn ,

                      Are you telling me that it is possible to skip the brass wire and
                      go for ordinary MIG wire?
                      Won't it fuse with the piece your working on?
                      I was thinking that the wire had to corrode away on the surface.
                      I heard from EDM-enthousiasts that the wire has thinned after
                      passing thru the piece.
                      Won't it take bigger currents to discharge if you use a steel wire?
                      I am interested, have you got pictures of that setup?



                      Happy thinkering,

                      V.S.


                      --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "Gene" <gene98329@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hope nothing goes bad as you are setting yourself up for being killed if something happens. By code all breakers that are going to one appliance are to be tied together so if one leg trips it shuts off all power to that circuit. Of coarse you knew that sorry!
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, actsiser <actsiser@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hello,
                      > > EDM's do not use a huge amount of electricity, much less than an arc welder.
                      > > 220V 30A Should be fine. Otherwise, put in a 50 A breaker.
                      > > One trick I've used for 220 V welding machines, is to wire one hot into a 30A breaker and the other hot
                      > > into another 30A and common neutral and ground and you've got a 60A circuit without having to buy
                      > > any new breakers.
                      > >
                      > > You can also use copper coated mild steel MIG wire for EDM. Easy to find.
                      > > and a saline solution for the electrolyte.
                      > >
                      > > best,
                      > > Shawn.
                      > >
                      > > On Sun, Apr 05, 2009 at 04:53:09PM -0000, cvlac wrote:
                      > > > Hi Bruce
                      > > > Maybe you have not well understood my question.
                      > > > I will try to formulate it in a better way.
                      > > > Heaving a domestic electric power supply of 220V-30A like the mine and others home shop machinists, what kind of machining can be done with this system?And in this environment I want to limit the capacity of this process.
                      > > > I'm not speaking about industry standards since I know that they have-dispose a lot of power.In these terms we can estimate if this process is somehow useful to us .
                      > > > Have a nice day
                      > > > Costas
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Bellows" <bbellows@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Hi Costas
                      > > > >
                      > > > > To give you an example of the cutting capacity of EDM. Last year I had manufactured some slitting anvils for a printing press that were mounted on a driven shaft / mandrel. The anvil segments were not split and had a face length of 6", OD = 4" and an ID of 3". They were made from D2 toolsteel and the bore was cored out using EDM to within about .005 of finished ground size. I think the capacity of the EDM machine was 8" depth of cut.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Bruce
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > --
                      > > Shawn
                      > > actsiser@
                      > >
                      >
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