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Re: [multimachine] A real off the wall question

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  • David G. LeVine
    ... Just as a point, ICEs (Internal Combustion Engines) are not the only way to go, a big waterwheel will work, for example. Zero emissions and no exhaust
    Message 1 of 25 , Nov 30, 2008
      sophie_t wrote:
      > Giving my age away, where I served my apprenticeship all of our
      > workshop machines were powered this way.

      Just as a point, ICEs (Internal Combustion Engines) are not the only way
      to go, a big waterwheel will work, for example. Zero emissions and no
      exhaust fumes either!

      --
      David G. LeVine
      Nashua, NH 03060
    • sophie_t
      ... lol, well I m not that old. the steam engine room was still there. However the company had recently commissioned its own high pressure boiler house and
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 1, 2008
        hepps_29646 wrote:
        > Sophie,
        > Out of curiosity I have to ask, what was their source of power?
        > Harold
        >
        >>>
        >>>
        >> Giving my age away, where I served my apprenticeship all of our
        >> workshop machines were powered this way.
        >>
        >> sophie
        >>
        >>
        lol, well I'm not that old. the steam engine room was still there.
        However the company had recently commissioned its own high pressure
        boiler house and installed steam driven alternators so we were using a
        415v ac motor that was installed alongside the steam engine, can't
        remember the hp. The big? quarry shovels were still all steam.

        Sophie
      • hepps_29646
        Sophie, Thanks. I was kind of hoping there was a big hit and miss engine outside the shop. I once worked in a dry cleaner that still had a line shaft on the
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 1, 2008
          Sophie,
          Thanks. I was kind of hoping there was a big hit and miss engine
          outside the shop. I once worked in a dry cleaner that still had a
          line shaft on the wall. It was no longer in use but now I wish I'd
          asked what had powered it.
          Harold


          > >>
          > >>
          > lol, well I'm not that old. the steam engine room was still there.
          > However the company had recently commissioned its own high pressure
          > boiler house and installed steam driven alternators so we were using a
          > 415v ac motor that was installed alongside the steam engine, can't
          > remember the hp. The big? quarry shovels were still all steam.
          >
          > Sophie
          >
        • kwolson2002
          David et al. - Have a look at Banki turbines. They are made of circular-section blades (e.g. sections of cut pipe or tubing), fixed to end plates. They have
          Message 4 of 25 , Dec 1, 2008
            David et al. -

            Have a look at Banki turbines. They are made of circular-section
            blades (e.g. sections of cut pipe or tubing), fixed to end plates.
            They have flat efficiency curves, though somewhat lower efficiency
            than competitive turbine designs. This means they are relatively
            insensitive to seasonal flow variations, self cleaning (to a point),
            and they are much easier to build than most other reasonably efficient
            designs. "Producing Your Own Power", published by Volunteers in
            Technical Assistance (VITA), had a blurb on Banki turbines in the
            chapter on micro-hydro power plants.

            There are some pictures of one being home-built here:

            http://www.otherpower.com/scotthydro1.html

            To me, the blades look further apart on the above example than on
            commercial models, but I'm no expert on Banki-building; they just seem
            like a good place to start if/when I have a go at a small hydro plant.

            A commercial company's info is here:

            http://www.ossberger.de/cms/en/hydro/the-ossberger-turbine/

            The Germans, French and Austrians seem to be leaders in small hydro
            for commercial/NGO programs.

            If you need a lot of torque with direct drive, there is still the old
            fashioned over-shot wheel, but you need several feet of head.

            Kevin

            --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "David G. LeVine"
            <dlevine144@...> wrote:
            >
            > sophie_t wrote:
            > > Giving my age away, where I served my apprenticeship all of our
            > > workshop machines were powered this way.
            >
            > Just as a point, ICEs (Internal Combustion Engines) are not the only
            way
            > to go, a big waterwheel will work, for example. Zero emissions and
            no
            > exhaust fumes either!
            >
            > --
            > David G. LeVine
            > Nashua, NH 03060
            >
          • anthrhodes@aol.com
            Keith, Place the gas engine outside driving a line shaft with long belts down to the individual machines. Everything old is new again. LOL Anthony Berkeley,
            Message 5 of 25 , Dec 1, 2008
              Keith,
               
              Place the gas engine outside driving a line shaft with long belts down to the individual machines. Everything old is new again. LOL
               
              Anthony
              Berkeley, Calif.
              *******************************************************
              In a message dated Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:58 pm (PST), Keith Gutshall writes:
              It is possible to power the MM  with a small gas engine
               
               A smaller gas engine with a horizontal shaft would be best.
               Most gas engines( Like a lawnmower type)are rated a 3600 RPM, so the reduction shafts would take this in to the amount of reduction you need.
               
              If you use a engine for this, the exhaust woulld be a problem with out adequate ventilation.
               Running it in a closed garage is not a good idea.



            • HB
              Talking about bringing up old technology again in modern machining applications we can build a wooden geared shaft and wheel system to be turned by horses or
              Message 6 of 25 , Dec 2, 2008


                Talking about bringing up old technology again in modern machining applications we can build a wooden geared shaft and wheel system to be turned by horses or mules, or even people such as our kids and neighbors. Have a horizontal shaft and some belting connected to it to transmit power to our multimachine. LOL!
                 

                --- On Mon, 12/1/08, anthrhodes@... <anthrhodes@...> wrote:
                From: anthrhodes@... <anthrhodes@...>
                Subject: [multimachine] Re: A real off the wall question
                To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 10:44 PM

                Keith,
                 
                Place the gas engine outside driving a line shaft with long belts down to the individual machines. Everything old is new again. LOL
                 
                Anthony
                Berkeley, Calif.
                ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* *******
                In a message dated Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:58 pm (PST), Keith Gutshall writes:
                It is possible to power the MM  with a small gas engine
                 
                 A smaller gas engine with a horizontal shaft would be best.
                 Most gas engines( Like a lawnmower type)are rated a 3600 RPM, so the reduction shafts would take this in to the amount of reduction you need.
                 
                If you use a engine for this, the exhaust woulld be a problem with out adequate ventilation.
                 Running it in a closed garage is not a good idea.




              • William Dysinger
                A good heavy flywheel would take care of those pulses and maybe some of the vibration. Balancing would help the vibs also. Will, the Tink N45°29 05,
                Message 7 of 25 , Dec 2, 2008
                  A good heavy flywheel would take care of those pulses and maybe some of the vibration. Balancing would help the vibs also.

                  Will, the Tink
                  N45°29'05, W122°19.20

                  On Sat, 2008-11-29 at 21:15 -0800, keith gutshall wrote:
                  Hello Jeff   I agree with you on the point of vibration and power pulses in an IC engine.  The engine would be fine if you isolated it from the machine .     The power pulses would be worse at lower speeds.    A vertical machine might work if it was stiff and heavy. This would almost require an electric motor for smoothness.    Keith

                  Deep Run Portage
                  Back Shop
                  " The Lizard Works"

                  --- On Sat, 11/29/08, Jeff <jhan5en@...> wrote:

                  From: Jeff <jhan5en@...>
                  Subject: [multimachine] Re: A real off the wall question
                  To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Saturday, November 29, 2008, 8:21 PM

                  Vibration is a problem with IC engines. This can be dealt with just
                  like they used to by separating the engine from the machine, adding
                  huge flywheels to the shafts and coupling the components with belts to
                  minimize the engine pulsations and vibrations. Multi cylinder engines
                  and two strokes have reduced power pulses.
                  I think that a Honda 90 engine would be fun to try, five gears with
                  the push of a lever and a clutch would be great. The three wheeler
                  engines had a hi/lo range and a pull start.
                  Jeff

                  --- In multimachine@ yahoogroups. com, Bret Schlueter <bretshooter@ ...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Couldn't a vertical drive used to drive a vertical milling head?
                  >
                  > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                  > It's a Montana thing, you wouldn't understand.. .
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ____________ _________ _________ __
                  > From: keith gutshall <drpshops@.. .>
                  > To: multimachine@ yahoogroups. com
                  > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 2:58:15 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [multimachine] A real off the wall question
                  >
                  >
                  > Hello Greg
                  > It is possible to power the MM with a small gas engine
                  >
                  > A smaller gas engine with a horizontal shaft would be best.
                  > Most gas engines( Like a lawnmower type)are rated a 3600 RPM, so
                  the reduction shafts would take this in to the amount of reduction you
                  need.
                  >
                  > If you use a engine for this, the exhaust woulld be a problem with
                  out adequate ventilation.
                  > Running it in a closed garage is not a good idea.
                  >
                  > Keith
                  >
                  > Deep Run Portage
                  > Back Shop
                  > " The Lizard Works"
                  >
                  > --- On Sat, 11/29/08, Greg and April <gregandapril@ earthlink. net>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > From: Greg and April <gregandapril@ earthlink. net>
                  > Subject: [multimachine] A real off the wall question
                  > To: multimachine@ yahoogroups. com
                  > Date: Saturday, November 29, 2008, 3:15 PM
                  >
                  >
                  > Why do we need an electric motor to run a MM, why not use a small
                  gas or diesel engine?
                  >
                  > Greg H.
                  >
                  > Once you accept that the universe as matter expanding into nothing
                  that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy.
                  >

                • William Dysinger
                  A good replacement for that old hit/miss engine would be a Lister diesel! Will, the Tink N45°29 05, W122°19.20 ... A good replacement for that old hit/miss
                  Message 8 of 25 , Dec 3, 2008
                    A good replacement for that old hit/miss engine would be a Lister diesel!

                    Will, the Tink
                    N45°29'05, W122°19.20

                    On Mon, 2008-12-01 at 15:20 +0000, hepps_29646 wrote:
                    Sophie,
                    Thanks. I was kind of hoping there was a big hit and miss engine
                    outside the shop. I once worked in a dry cleaner that still had a
                    line shaft on the wall. It was no longer in use but now I wish I'd
                    asked what had powered it.
                    Harold


                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > lol, well I'm not that old. the steam engine room was still there.
                    > However the company had recently commissioned its own high pressure
                    > boiler house and installed steam driven alternators so we were using a
                    > 415v ac motor that was installed alongside the steam engine, can't
                    > remember the hp. The big? quarry shovels were still all steam.
                    >
                    > Sophie

                  • hepps_29646
                    Will, You re right. I really want a Listeroid but they are out of my reach for the time being. Harold
                    Message 9 of 25 , Dec 4, 2008
                      Will,
                      You're right. I really want a Listeroid but they are out of my reach
                      for the time being.
                      Harold
                      >
                      > A good replacement for that old hit/miss engine would be a Lister
                      > diesel!
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