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Re: Theading

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  • anthrhodes@aol.com
    Keith, I wasn t fully aware of the concept on which you were working. Looking at your drawing mulimach, the fifth photo in the drp shops 2 photo album,
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 12, 2008
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      Keith,
       
      I wasn't fully aware of the concept on which you were working. Looking at your drawing "mulimach, the fifth photo in the drp shops 2 photo album, There are a couple of things that come to mind.
       
      First issue, why the sprocket inboard of the drive pulley on the spindle? By doing this you've restricted yourself to the one sprocket on the spindle instead of being able to change it out as part of your change of ratios to the leadscrew. It also seems to me that the pulley will have more inherent radial loading than the sprocket and will have the loading at all times when the spindle is being motor driven, therefore it would be better to place the pulley as close to the supporting bearing as possible and let the sprocket suffer from cantilevering.
       
      The second sprocket train from the primary shaft to the actual leadscrew seems unnecessary, although I can see that you may be trying to move the leadscrew closer to the front of the ways which may not be possible around the outside of the main pillar. An alternative way of accomplishing this is to bring the ways out closer to in line with the primary shaft, therefore allowing the primary shaft and the leadscrew to be one piece. This is actually a good idea because the loads from the cutting tool when used in lathe-mode are in front of the spindle center, closer to the operator.
       
      Even if you adopt the idea of expanding the ways towards the front of the bed I can see that the second set of sprockets might have some utility. Specifically, having the option to "regear" at both the back of the spindle and at the carriage will allow for more choices of spindle / leadscrew ratio. You could do inch / metric conversion at the back of the spindle and pitch selection at the carriage, or major reduction at the back of the spindle and finer control of ratio at the carriage.
       
      Hope this input is useful to you.
      Anthony
      Berkeley, Calif.
      **************************************************
      In a message dated Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:23 am (PDT), Keith Gutshall writes:
      I came up with a concept drawing for it some time back
       Look in photos drp shops 2 folder labeled mulimach.
        You can look at the idea and see maybe it will work on your machine
       I am going to use #35 roller chain fo my machine, it seems to be heavy enought to work good




      Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.
    • keith gutshall
      Hello Anthony The drawing is a concept drawing  I made the drawing about two years ago and things change as building go on. As for the placement of the
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 12, 2008
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        Hello Anthony
        The drawing is a concept drawing
         I made the drawing about two years ago and things change as building go on.
        As for the placement of the sprocket I will place mine and I think Costas are useing a
         taper bushing pulley. With this type of pulley we are able to bolt it to the outside of the
         pulley  the sprocket has to be bored to the shaft size and drilled for hole to fit the bolts.
         I have a spindle shaft with 2 3/8 dia and fixed in the shaft. I have to use a sprocket with
         enought diameter so the chain does not hit the pulley bushing.
         
         The shaft from the back of the block to the front is set out to clear the block.
         The block and ways for the slide have to be cleared by the shaft.
         This works good because other set of sprockets gets the ratio you need for threading.
         
         By doing this the leadscrew can be close to the carriage and keep the twist to a minimum
         I think i said that it is not as simple as it looks.
         
        And the shaft I am makeing is not for a MM it is for my wood turning lathe.
         
         Keith

        Deep Run Portage
        Back Shop
        " The Lizard Works"

        --- On Tue, 8/12/08, anthrhodes@... <anthrhodes@...> wrote:
        From: anthrhodes@... <anthrhodes@...>
        Subject: [multimachine] Re: Theading
        To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, August 12, 2008, 9:19 PM

        Keith,
         
        I wasn't fully aware of the concept on which you were working. Looking at your drawing "mulimach, the fifth photo in the drp shops 2 photo album, There are a couple of things that come to mind.
         
        First issue, why the sprocket inboard of the drive pulley on the spindle? By doing this you've restricted yourself to the one sprocket on the spindle instead of being able to change it out as part of your change of ratios to the leadscrew. It also seems to me that the pulley will have more inherent radial loading than the sprocket and will have the loading at all times when the spindle is being motor driven, therefore it would be better to place the pulley as close to the supporting bearing as possible and let the sprocket suffer from cantilevering.
         
        The second sprocket train from the primary shaft to the actual leadscrew seems unnecessary, although I can see that you may be trying to move the leadscrew closer to the front of the ways which may not be possible around the outside of the main pillar. An alternative way of accomplishing this is to bring the ways out closer to in line with the primary shaft, therefore allowing the primary shaft and the leadscrew to be one piece. This is actually a good idea because the loads from the cutting tool when used in lathe-mode are in front of the spindle center, closer to the operator.
         
        Even if you adopt the idea of expanding the ways towards the front of the bed I can see that the second set of sprockets might have some utility. Specifically, having the option to "regear" at both the back of the spindle and at the carriage will allow for more choices of spindle / leadscrew ratio. You could do inch / metric conversion at the back of the spindle and pitch selection at the carriage, or major reduction at the back of the spindle and finer control of ratio at the carriage.
         
        Hope this input is useful to you.
        Anthony
        Berkeley, Calif.
        ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* **
        In a message dated Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:23 am (PDT), Keith Gutshall writes:
        I came up with a concept drawing for it some time back
         Look in photos drp shops 2 folder labeled mulimach.
          You can look at the idea and see maybe it will work on your machine
         I am going to use #35 roller chain fo my machine, it seems to be heavy enought to work good




        Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.

      • cvlac
        Hi Keith Me too, looking at your drawing mulimach, the fifth photo in the drp shops 2 photo album ,I see a normal lathe threading mechanism , but it is not
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 13, 2008
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          Hi Keith
          Me too, looking at your drawing "mulimach, the fifth photo in the
          drp shops 2 photo album ,I see a normal lathe threading mechanism ,
          but it is not very adequate to be used by the MM.
          With this ,I mean that if the MM table goes up and down ,it will
          hit the intermediate axle that brings motion from the the back of the
          MM spindle.As an idea I'm proposing to for this purpose to use the
          first bore of the MM ,(this one used by Pat to hold the overarm) from
          the upper side of the MM .The only emerging problem with this
          solution,is that the belt or the chain must be changed each time you
          change the threading ratio. And of course for a given fixed position
          of the vertical slide because the cutting tool must be and moved at a
          very precise horizontal plane.
          I think that this is a good idea for me that I have a pure MM ,
          but it is not for you that you have build a "hybrid" MM on a wooden base.
          From the other side, it is difficult now to adapt to the front of
          the MM a tapper bush because of the larger diameter of my spindle to
          the front .The back of the spindle is machined to 45mm OD smaller than
          the front that helps mounting the large pulley taper bush .You can see
          it in my photos.Any way I insist that you must make some simple design
          of your proposition since like me , a lot of people are using english
          language occasionally and can't follow long text explanations.
          Thanx Costas

          --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, keith gutshall <drpshops@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Anthony
          > The drawing is a concept drawing
          > I made the drawing about two years ago and things change as
          building go on.
          > As for the placement of the sprocket I will place mine and I think
          Costas are useing a
          > taper bushing pulley. With this type of pulley we are able to bolt
          it to the outside of the
          > pulley the sprocket has to be bored to the shaft size and drilled
          for hole to fit the bolts.
          > I have a spindle shaft with 2 3/8 dia and fixed in the shaft. I
          have to use a sprocket with
          > enought diameter so the chain does not hit the pulley bushing.
          >
          > The shaft from the back of the block to the front is set out to
          clear the block.
          > The block and ways for the slide have to be cleared by the shaft.
          > This works good because other set of sprockets gets the ratio you
          need for threading.
          >
          > By doing this the leadscrew can be close to the carriage and keep
          the twist to a minimum
          > I think i said that it is not as simple as it looks.
          >
          > And the shaft I am makeing is not for a MM it is for my wood turning
          lathe.
          >
          > Keith
          >
          > Deep Run Portage
          > Back Shop
          > " The Lizard Works"
          >
          > --- On Tue, 8/12/08, anthrhodes@... <anthrhodes@...> wrote:
          >
          > From: anthrhodes@... <anthrhodes@...>
          > Subject: [multimachine] Re: Theading
          > To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Tuesday, August 12, 2008, 9:19 PM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Keith,
          >
          > I wasn't fully aware of the concept on which you were working.
          Looking at your drawing "mulimach, the fifth photo in the drp shops
          2 photo album, There are a couple of things that come to mind.
          >
          > First issue, why the sprocket inboard of the drive pulley on the
          spindle? By doing this you've restricted yourself to the one sprocket
          on the spindle instead of being able to change it out as part of your
          change of ratios to the leadscrew. It also seems to me that the pulley
          will have more inherent radial loading than the sprocket and will have
          the loading at all times when the spindle is being motor driven,
          therefore it would be better to place the pulley as close to the
          supporting bearing as possible and let the sprocket suffer from
          cantilevering.
          >
          > The second sprocket train from the primary shaft to the actual
          leadscrew seems unnecessary, although I can see that you may be trying
          to move the leadscrew closer to the front of the ways which may not be
          possible around the outside of the main pillar. An alternative way of
          accomplishing this is to bring the ways out closer to in line with the
          primary shaft, therefore allowing the primary shaft and the leadscrew
          to be one piece. This is actually a good idea because the loads from
          the cutting tool when used in lathe-mode are in front of the spindle
          center, closer to the operator.
          >
          > Even if you adopt the idea of expanding the ways towards the front
          of the bed I can see that the second set of sprockets might have some
          utility. Specifically, having the option to "regear" at both the back
          of the spindle and at the carriage will allow for more choices of
          spindle / leadscrew ratio. You could do inch / metric conversion at
          the back of the spindle and pitch selection at the carriage, or major
          reduction at the back of the spindle and finer control of ratio at the
          carriage.
          >
          > Hope this input is useful to you.
          > Anthony
          > Berkeley, Calif.
          > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* **
          >
          > In a message dated Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:23 am (PDT), Keith Gutshall
          writes:
          > I came up with a concept drawing for it some time back
          > Look in photos drp shops 2 folder labeled mulimach.
          > You can look at the idea and see maybe it will work on your machine
          > I am going to use #35 roller chain fo my machine, it seems to be
          heavy enought to work good
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read
          reviews on AOL Autos.
          >
        • keith gutshall
          Hello Costas  I have not forgot about you.  I am makeing some more drawings for you to help you understand why I designed the way I did. I seems like the
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 16, 2008
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            Hello Costas
             I have not forgot about you.
             I am makeing some more drawings for you to help you understand why I designed the way I did.
            I seems like the best idea to me , the shaft place on the side of the machine has less problems with pulley and the chuck. A shaft in the bore on top of the machine the chain drive would hit the chuck?
            You have to change sprockets for the different threads The little sprockets are cheaper than
             gears. I can buy a set of sprockets for the $$ of one change gear.
             
             I am haveing trouble seing the pulley in the photos, the photo is not well to see.
             
             Keith

            Deep Run Portage
            Back Shop
            " The Lizard Works"

            --- On Wed, 8/13/08, cvlac <cvlac0@...> wrote:
            From: cvlac <cvlac0@...>
            Subject: [multimachine] Re: Theading
            To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, August 13, 2008, 2:38 AM

            Hi Keith
            Me too, looking at your drawing "mulimach, the fifth photo in the
            drp shops 2 photo album ,I see a normal lathe threading mechanism ,
            but it is not very adequate to be used by the MM.
            With this ,I mean that if the MM table goes up and down ,it will
            hit the intermediate axle that brings motion from the the back of the
            MM spindle.As an idea I'm proposing to for this purpose to use the
            first bore of the MM ,(this one used by Pat to hold the overarm) from
            the upper side of the MM .The only emerging problem with this
            solution,is that the belt or the chain must be changed each time you
            change the threading ratio. And of course for a given fixed position
            of the vertical slide because the cutting tool must be and moved at a
            very precise horizontal plane.
            I think that this is a good idea for me that I have a pure MM ,
            but it is not for you that you have build a "hybrid" MM on a wooden base.
            From the other side, it is difficult now to adapt to the front of
            the MM a tapper bush because of the larger diameter of my spindle to
            the front .The back of the spindle is machined to 45mm OD smaller than
            the front that helps mounting the large pulley taper bush .You can see
            it in my photos.Any way I insist that you must make some simple design
            of your proposition since like me , a lot of people are using english
            language occasionally and can't follow long text explanations.
            Thanx Costas

            --- In multimachine@ yahoogroups. com, keith gutshall <drpshops@.. .> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Anthony
            > The drawing is a concept drawing
            > I made the drawing about two years ago and things change as
            building go on.
            > As for the placement of the sprocket I will place mine and I think
            Costas are useing a
            > taper bushing pulley. With this type of pulley we are able to bolt
            it to the outside of the
            > pulley the sprocket has to be bored to the shaft size and drilled
            for hole to fit the bolts.
            > I have a spindle shaft with 2 3/8 dia and fixed in the shaft. I
            have to use a sprocket with
            > enought diameter so the chain does not hit the pulley bushing.
            >
            > The shaft from the back of the block to the front is set out to
            clear the block.
            > The block and ways for the slide have to be cleared by the shaft.
            > This works good because other set of sprockets gets the ratio you
            need for threading.
            >
            > By doing this the leadscrew can be close to the carriage and keep
            the twist to a minimum
            > I think i said that it is not as simple as it looks.
            >
            > And the shaft I am makeing is not for a MM it is for my wood turning
            lathe.
            >
            > Keith
            >
            > Deep Run Portage
            > Back Shop
            > " The Lizard Works"
            >
            > --- On Tue, 8/12/08, anthrhodes@. .. <anthrhodes@ ...> wrote:
            >
            > From: anthrhodes@. .. <anthrhodes@ ...>
            > Subject: [multimachine] Re: Theading
            > To: multimachine@ yahoogroups. com
            > Date: Tuesday, August 12, 2008, 9:19 PM
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Keith,
            >
            > I wasn't fully aware of the concept on which you were working.
            Looking at your drawing "mulimach, the fifth photo in the drp shops
            2 photo album, There are a couple of things that come to mind.
            >
            > First issue, why the sprocket inboard of the drive pulley on the
            spindle? By doing this you've restricted yourself to the one sprocket
            on the spindle instead of being able to change it out as part of your
            change of ratios to the leadscrew. It also seems to me that the pulley
            will have more inherent radial loading than the sprocket and will have
            the loading at all times when the spindle is being motor driven,
            therefore it would be better to place the pulley as close to the
            supporting bearing as possible and let the sprocket suffer from
            cantilevering.
            >
            > The second sprocket train from the primary shaft to the actual
            leadscrew seems unnecessary, although I can see that you may be trying
            to move the leadscrew closer to the front of the ways which may not be
            possible around the outside of the main pillar. An alternative way of
            accomplishing this is to bring the ways out closer to in line with the
            primary shaft, therefore allowing the primary shaft and the leadscrew
            to be one piece. This is actually a good idea because the loads from
            the cutting tool when used in lathe-mode are in front of the spindle
            center, closer to the operator.
            >
            > Even if you adopt the idea of expanding the ways towards the front
            of the bed I can see that the second set of sprockets might have some
            utility. Specifically, having the option to "regear" at both the back
            of the spindle and at the carriage will allow for more choices of
            spindle / leadscrew ratio. You could do inch / metric conversion at
            the back of the spindle and pitch selection at the carriage, or major
            reduction at the back of the spindle and finer control of ratio at the
            carriage.
            >
            > Hope this input is useful to you.
            > Anthony
            > Berkeley, Calif.
            > ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* **
            >
            > In a message dated Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:23 am (PDT), Keith Gutshall
            writes:
            > I came up with a concept drawing for it some time back
            > Look in photos drp shops 2 folder labeled mulimach.
            > You can look at the idea and see maybe it will work on your machine
            > I am going to use #35 roller chain fo my machine, it seems to be
            heavy enought to work good
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read
            reviews on AOL Autos.
            >


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