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Re: [multimachine] alternator welding experiment update

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  • Lance
    Group, I tried using a computer power supply as the regulated field input. It outputs 14 V DC at about 4 amps and this produces about 36 volts DC on the output
    Message 1 of 28 , Apr 30 8:59 PM
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      Group,

      I tried using a computer power supply as the regulated field input.
      It outputs 14 V DC at about 4 amps and this produces about 36 volts DC
      on the output side of the alternator. This looks good, since the supply
      is regulated and has it's own cooling fan.

      I tried a house sliding dimmer to adjust the input current, but
      apparently it doesn't work for DC. I need to find a low ohm pot
      for the input field.

      I tried a dead, but not shorted car battery as the capacitor
      across the welding output and it does nothing. It tests as 9VDC
      output and no current.
      Therefore, 
      I'll have to scrounge up a working battery.
      I have several 1000 uF caps rated at 30 to 50 volts, can these work
      in parallel with a resistor is series to each instead of the battery?

      One last try with this project before it goes on the shelf.

      Many people have done this with on-board welders for their trail vehicles,
      so I don't know why this is so frustrating. Maybe it's my selection of parts?

      On a different welding note..
      I picked up a used 225 A AC welder that runs 220V 50 Amp.
      To buy the plug set, wall box and 50A 220V breaker to install it
      was $100 DIY. That raises the break even point for a DIY weldernator.

      lance
      ++++




      On Apr 27, 2008, at 1:07 PM, Lance wrote:

      Jack,

      I am working to find out the answers to those questions.
      When I make some progress, I'll post the data here.

      Right now, my opinion is that it is NOT worth the effort
      UNLESS you already own a working minimum 120 AMP alternator
      and at least a 2 HP motor to spin it. The cost of these two
      items exceeds what you can buy a used arc welder for. 
      Then you have to buy the cables, clamps, stinger etc.

      I am leaving in 20 minutes to pickup a used 225 Amp Craftsman
      arc welder with all cables and manuals for $100 US.

      lance
      +++++

    • Roy J. Tellason
      ... Nope, that won t work. ... Or rig up a small circuit with a transistor switching things on and off, or varying the duty cycle or similar. ... You don t
      Message 2 of 28 , May 1, 2008
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        On Wednesday 30 April 2008 23:59, Lance wrote:
        > Group,
        >
        > I tried using a computer power supply as the regulated field input.
        > It outputs 14 V DC at about 4 amps and this produces about 36 volts DC
        > on the output side of the alternator. This looks good, since the supply
        > is regulated and has it's own cooling fan.
        >
        > I tried a house sliding dimmer to adjust the input current, but
        > apparently it doesn't work for DC.

        Nope, that won't work.

        > I need to find a low ohm pot for the input field.

        Or rig up a small circuit with a transistor switching things on and off, or
        varying the duty cycle or similar.

        > I tried a dead, but not shorted car battery as the capacitor
        > across the welding output and it does nothing. It tests as 9VDC
        > output and no current.
        > Therefore,
        > I'll have to scrounge up a working battery.
        > I have several 1000 uF caps rated at 30 to 50 volts, can these work
        > in parallel with a resistor is series to each instead of the battery?

        You don't need the resistors. Also, I may have some caps you could use:

        http://mysite.verizon.net/rtellason/parts.html

        Plus I have stuff kicking around that's not listed there.


        --
        Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
        ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
        be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
        -
        Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
        M Dakin
      • Pat Delany
        On his site, Jon says that the site could be removed at any time. Could someone save this site to files?? When I try to save a site, something important is
        Message 3 of 28 , May 2, 2008
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          On his site, Jon says that the site could be removed at any time.
          Could someone save this site to files?? When I try to save a site,
          something important is always missing!.

          Pat

          --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Darwin Wandler <wandler@...> wrote:
          >
          > Pat it was back in Nov 23 2006
          >
          > http://home.comcast.net/~t.molnar/
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > /Welcome to Jon's Jeep
          > Portable Welder Plans Page.../
          >
          >
          > <http://www.huv.com/jon/jeep/Welder/Welder-1.jpg>During the Christmas
          > holidays, while I was visiting my parents, I got to reading the YJ FAQ
          > (it has a lot of information in it relevant to CJ's as well). The first
          > question in the FAQ is regarding using the alternator in the Jeep as a
          > welder. While I'm pretty sure this is possible, and I'm planning on
          > doing it myself fairly soon, the answer given is not at all clear on
          > exactly how it's done.
          >
          > My dad recalled a photocopy of an old Mother Earth News article that
          > described in detail how to build a portable DC arc welder using a car
          > alternator, so he dug it up. We took an afternoon and built the welder,
          > and it was very cool to actually weld using something we put together
          > that quickly (and cheaply).
          >
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          >
          > The Welder Plans
          >
          > Basically, what you need is the following:
          >
          > 1. car or truck alternator, preferably without a built-in voltage
          > regulator (although you can use one with a built-in regulator, you
          > have to bypass it)
          > 2. motor or engine
          > 3. car battery
          > 4. platform to mount everything on
          > 5. on/off switch
          > 6. big diode
          > 7. thermal overload switch
          > 8. one or two 1.5 ohm 8 amp resistors (you may not need these if your
          > motor is powerful enought - we needed them with a 1 HP
          electric motor)
          > 9. a couple feet of #18 wire, and a couple feet of heavy (1/0) wire
          > 10. old pair of jumper cables
          > 11. bunch of connectors/stak-ons
          >
          > <http://www.huv.com/jon/jeep/Welder/Welder-2.jpg>For a platform, you
          > could use an old lawnmower, and thus also be supplied with an engine
          and
          > a place to mount the battery & alternator. We used a chunk of plywood,
          > with a few pieces of angle-iron to mount everything to.
          >
          > For the alternator, we used a regular 66 amp alternator, the kind
          with a
          > built-in regulator. We took the regulator out, and bypassed it,
          > grounding the brush it was connected to.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Wired as above, you get a reverse-polarity DC welder, which is
          > standard. To get a positive polarity welder, just switch the
          > ground-clamp with the rod holder.
          >
          > <http://www.huv.com/jon/jeep/Welder/First-Bead.jpg>We used the jumper
          > cables as our welding leads, and drilled a couple small holes in the
          end
          > of one of the clamps to act as a simple rod holder. After we got it
          > working, and laid our first bead, we "machined" a new custom rod holder
          > using a chunk of 1/2" steel and a piece of pipe. Cut to shape, drill a
          > few holes, tap some threads, weld it together, and you get a nice
          > (cheap) rod holder.
          >
          > <http://www.huv.com/jon/jeep/Welder/Easy-Rod-Holder.jpg>
          > <http://www.huv.com/jon/jeep/Welder/Nice-Rod-Holder.jpg>
          >
          > I hope you find this useful. When I get my on-board welder project done
          > (due to start in February, immediately following my on-board air
          > project), I will provide full specifications and plans and pictures of
          > what I have done.
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          > Go back <http://www.huv.com/jon/jeep/Welder/index.html> to my Jeep page.
          >
          >
          >
          > Pat Delany wrote:
          > >
          > > Several years ago I added all the alternator welder links I could find
          > > to our links section. If anyone can find new ones, please add them.
          > > This is a subject that is not well covered on the web.
          > >
          > > Pat
          > >
          > > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com
          > > <mailto:multimachine%40yahoogroups.com>, "brianrobert.wood"
          > > <brianrobertwood@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > That sound like a perfect place for it. There are lots of
          articles on
          > > > how to do things like that on the off-road jeep sites, also on-board
          > > > engine powered air compressors, they use things like roll bars for
          > > > the tank.
          > > >
          > > > Brian
          > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > I try it on my rotocultor arien 4hp probaly very good consept
          > > > because the totocultor I used it only for 1 week at spring
          > > > >
          > > > > jack 47'N 71'W
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • Pierre Coueffin
          Look in the MM files for OnboardWelder.pdf I re-drew some of the diagrams, but the text and photos are verbatim from http://home.comcast.net/~t.molnar/ Let me
          Message 4 of 28 , May 3, 2008
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            Look in the MM files for OnboardWelder.pdf I re-drew some of the
            diagrams, but the text and photos are verbatim from
            http://home.comcast.net/~t.molnar/ Let me know if I screwed anything
            up.

            On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 10:10 AM, Pat Delany <rigmatch@...> wrote:
            > On his site, Jon says that the site could be removed at any time.
            > Could someone save this site to files?? When I try to save a site,
            > something important is always missing!.
            >
            > Pat
          • Lance
            Everything looks great except... the lines in the wiring diagram don t show up for me. lance ++++
            Message 5 of 28 , May 3, 2008
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              Everything looks great except...

              the lines in the wiring diagram don't show up for me.

              lance
              ++++
              On May 3, 2008, at 6:56 AM, Pierre Coueffin wrote:

              Look in the MM files for OnboardWelder. pdf I re-drew some of the
              diagrams, but the text and photos are verbatim from
              http://home. comcast.net/ ~t.molnar/ Let me know if I screwed anything
              up.

              On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 10:10 AM, Pat Delany <rigmatch@yahoo. com> wrote:
              > On his site, Jon says that the site could be removed at any time.
              > Could someone save this site to files?? When I try to save a site,
              > something important is always missing!.
              >
              > Pat

            • darkblood_
              Which lines? I have wiring diagrams on pages 2, 3 and 4.... I ll try double-checking em against the original drawings, since I might have missed some lines.
              Message 6 of 28 , May 3, 2008
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                Which lines? I have wiring diagrams on pages 2, 3 and 4....
                I'll try double-checking 'em against the original drawings, since I
                might have missed some lines.

                --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Lance <gbof@...> wrote:
                >
                > Everything looks great except...
                >
                > the lines in the wiring diagram don't show up for me.
                >
                > lance
              • Lance
                  ... On May 3, 2008, at 5:51 PM, darkblood_ wrote: Which lines? I have wiring diagrams on pages 2, 3 and 4.... I ll try double-checking em
                Message 7 of 28 , May 3, 2008
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                  On May 3, 2008, at 5:51 PM, darkblood_ wrote:

                  Which lines? I have wiring diagrams on pages 2, 3 and 4....
                  I'll try double-checking 'em against the original drawings, since I
                  might have missed some lines.


                • Pierre Coueffin
                  And yet the crossed out sections showed up (drawn with lines too... ) I bet it is a re-scaling issue. Gimme a sec and I ll see if I can fix it.
                  Message 8 of 28 , May 3, 2008
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                    And yet the crossed out sections showed up (drawn with lines too... )
                    I bet it is a re-scaling issue. Gimme a sec and I'll see if I can fix
                    it.

                    On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Lance <gbof@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On May 3, 2008, at 5:51 PM, darkblood_ wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Which lines? I have wiring diagrams on pages 2, 3 and 4....
                    > I'll try double-checking 'em against the original drawings, since I
                    > might have missed some lines.
                    >
                    >
                  • twofouroh
                    Try bumping all your linewidths up to something more than 0. On a hi-rez monitor they disappear. All but one are just faint gray. The only one I see is the
                    Message 9 of 28 , May 3, 2008
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                      Try bumping all your linewidths up to something more than 0. On a
                      hi-rez monitor they disappear. All but one are just faint gray. The
                      only one I see is the one going from the F term to the batt + post.
                      See what's different about it, I bet it's got a bigger linewidth.

                      Scott B


                      --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "Pierre Coueffin" <pcoueffin@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > And yet the crossed out sections showed up (drawn with lines too... )
                      > I bet it is a re-scaling issue. Gimme a sec and I'll see if I can fix
                      > it.
                      >
                      > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Lance <gbof@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > On May 3, 2008, at 5:51 PM, darkblood_ wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Which lines? I have wiring diagrams on pages 2, 3 and 4....
                      > > I'll try double-checking 'em against the original drawings, since I
                      > > might have missed some lines.
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Pierre Coueffin
                      That s exactly the problem. I convert to vector graphics by way of a huge encapsulated postscript file... Dozens of pages across ... that gets resized to fit
                      Message 10 of 28 , May 3, 2008
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                        That's exactly the problem. I convert to vector graphics by way of a
                        huge encapsulated postscript file... Dozens of pages across ... that
                        gets resized to fit the page.
                        I forgot to reset the minimum line thickness when I made the drawings,
                        and the shrinking made them tiny.

                        I've uploaded a (hopefully) fixed version.

                        On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 3:22 PM, twofouroh <bhu678@...> wrote:
                        > Try bumping all your linewidths up to something more than 0. On a
                        > hi-rez monitor they disappear. All but one are just faint gray. The
                        > only one I see is the one going from the F term to the batt + post.
                        > See what's different about it, I bet it's got a bigger linewidth.
                        >
                        > Scott B
                        >
                        > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "Pierre Coueffin" <pcoueffin@...>
                        > wrote:
                        >
                        > >
                        > > And yet the crossed out sections showed up (drawn with lines too... )
                        > > I bet it is a re-scaling issue. Gimme a sec and I'll see if I can fix
                        > > it.
                        > >
                        > > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Lance <gbof@...> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > On May 3, 2008, at 5:51 PM, darkblood_ wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Which lines? I have wiring diagrams on pages 2, 3 and 4....
                        > > > I'll try double-checking 'em against the original drawings, since I
                        > > > might have missed some lines.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
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