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Re: [multimachine] dfm/energy/o80405//00:35

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  • erikc
    Is there a link to this story or is it just hearsay? ... In todays The Tribune (Welland , Ontario) A young 15 yr old finds a better way to create energy from
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 5 5:53 AM
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      Is there a link to this story or is it just hearsay?

      DennisF MacIntyre wrote:
      > Dear Pat
      > Here is potential for energy in the third world and elsewhere in the future.

      In todays The Tribune (Welland , Ontario) A young 15 yr old finds a
      better way to

      create energy from cow manure. A chap named Llew Falla , from Sarnia,
      a science

      fair whiz is what they call him.They call it CH4 optimization of
      bio-waste via microbial

      fuel cell control. On a lighter side they mention the project is
      full of crap, but

      who's to judge?
      > The Fair is in Atlanta, Ga., (acronym ISEF) and he produces electricity and methane

      gas. He, apparently has found a better way to break down cow poop
      using a microbial

      fuel cell to produce clean usable electricity and methane.
      > It says the hydrogen and the ions in the poop react with water. This generates

      electricity and the afore mentioned gas.They then trap the gas and
      store it separately.

      This young man says that while doing his experimenting they had a
      poop explosion.

      It apparently was all over the place.
      > Perhaps down the road this sort of biotechnology will be set up in developing

      countries by aid organizations to power motors and engines to run
      multimachines

      and related equipment.
      > We need more people developing energy from waste products. A few years ago

      their was a people poop palatalization (say that three times quickly)
      operation

      in or around the city of Toronto, Ontario Canada that kept catching
      fire and they

      labelled it a lemon and scrapped it instead of making lemonade. It
      would be nice

      if this young fellow's process could be put to use here even without
      lemons.

      > keep smiling
      > dennis mac
      >
      --
      "It may be that the old astrologers had the truth
      exactly reversed, when they believed that the stars
      controlled the destinies of men. The time may come
      when men control the destinies of stars."
      Arthur C. Clarke, First on the Moon, 1970
    • erikc
      Has anybody ever considered cannabis (hemp) as a possible biodiesel source. The plant grows like crazy in even poor soils unsuited for any other kind of
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 5 6:02 AM
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        Has anybody ever considered cannabis (hemp) as a possible biodiesel
        source. The plant grows like crazy in even poor soils unsuited for
        any other kind of agriculture, and every part of the plant is good for
        something. In particular, the seeds are rich in an oil that can be
        easily converted to biodiesel (and also used for human/animal
        nutrition). In temperate or equatorial regions, one can get 3 or 4
        crops per year with a yield of something like 15 tonnes of seeds per
        hectare.

        Unfortunately, this plant also carries a stigma - people like to smoke
        it therefore it is (currently) illegal.

        cvlac wrote:
        > Hi dennis
        > For imformation purpose only, I want to say that in my opinion the
        > search for a chep energy (maybe free energy) is more a public manner
        > than a technological problem.And with this I meen that here in
        > Europe, they told that if the price per litre of the fuel exeeds 1.2
        > euros, them biodiesel will be economicaly efficient.At this moment,
        > in my city, thr price is 1.18E/lt.After that , everybody (big energy
        > trusts),sterted to go around the world to fing and build systems to
        > produce biodiesel.As a result in two years,the 20 percent ofthe
        > forests in south Asia ( or in some of these countries) was destroyed
        > to make place to plant new, more biodiesel rendering daws.Then
        > European Union, returned to say that some taxes must be added to this
        > combustible in a way to stop cutting the forests.
        > It is sad to say , but Internationalisation of the markets, makes
        > the things more complicated and it is not easy to find some solution
        > that could be easely aplicable to all places in the world.
        > And an other thing.
        > I don't think that Africa has not resources or low cost energy
        > sources.The poverty problem in Africa is more political than
        > economical.Europe and the other "civilizated" world steals Africa's
        > resources leting African people poore. And that for a lot of
        > centurys.
        > A freind of mine from my city (Rodos) was working in Cameroun in
        > Africa for the collection of cofee.It is a seasonal work that takes 2-
        > 3 months every year.He told me that the big money is made stealing
        > small producers like old womens that have 1-2 trees in their
        > courtyard , by certifying their product as a B quality and finaly
        > saying that the load had less kilos etc.In this way a white employee
        > takes 3-5 more salary from a black one that works in the same company.
        > Sorry about my bad english but it is not my mother language.
        > Costas

        erikc

        --
        "It may be that the old astrologers had the truth
        exactly reversed, when they believed that the stars
        controlled the destinies of men. The time may come
        when men control the destinies of stars."
        Arthur C. Clarke, First on the Moon, 1970
      • Paul
        ... Oh yeah, and I can imagine people hanging around the exhaust... Paul
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 5 7:56 AM
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          erikc wrote:

          > Has anybody ever considered cannabis (hemp) as a possible biodiesel
          > source.

          Oh yeah, and I can imagine people hanging around the exhaust...

          Paul
        • erikc
          ... It doesn t work that way. And before you dismiss the idea out of hand, (like some people have done with the multimachine), do some research. You ll
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 5 9:16 AM
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            Paul wrote:
            > erikc wrote:
            >
            >> Has anybody ever considered cannabis (hemp) as a possible biodiesel
            >> source.
            >
            > Oh yeah, and I can imagine people hanging around the exhaust...
            >
            > Paul

            It doesn't work that way. And before you dismiss the idea out of
            hand, (like some people have done with the multimachine), do some
            research. You'll discover that hemp grown for biodiesel is utterly
            useless for getting high off of.


            erikc
          • Michael Shirley
            ... There are strains that have next to no THC in them. DEA treats em all the same though. That said, how many pounds of seeds are needed to produce a gallon
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 5 12:58 PM
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              On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 06:02:07 -0700, erikc <firewevr@...> wrote:

              > Has anybody ever considered cannabis (hemp) as a possible biodiesel
              > source. The plant grows like crazy in even poor soils unsuited for
              > any other kind of agriculture, and every part of the plant is good for
              > something. In particular, the seeds are rich in an oil that can be
              > easily converted to biodiesel (and also used for human/animal
              > nutrition). In temperate or equatorial regions, one can get 3 or 4
              > crops per year with a yield of something like 15 tonnes of seeds per
              > hectare.
              >
              > Unfortunately, this plant also carries a stigma - people like to smoke
              > it therefore it is (currently) illegal.

              There are strains that have next to no THC in them. DEA treats
              em all the same though.

              That said, how many pounds of seeds are needed to produce a gallon
              of Biodiesel?

              "Four Horsemen appeared on the horizon, and the wind, began, to howl."
            • William Dysinger
              Well, like I say, I received this info via the yahoo group multi-machine . I will verify with sender where they got the info. William, the tinkerer ... snip
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 5 1:01 PM
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                Well, like I say, I received this info via the yahoo group "multi-machine". I will verify with sender where they got the info.
                William, the tinkerer

                On Sat, 2008-04-05 at 06:53 -0600, erikc wrote:
                Is there a link to this story or is it just hearsay?

                DennisF MacIntyre wrote:
                > Dear Pat
                > Here is potential for energy in the third world and elsewhere in the future.

                In todays The Tribune (Welland , Ontario) A young 15 yr old finds a
                better way to

                create energy from cow manure. A chap named Llew Falla , from Sarnia,
                a science

                fair whiz is what they call him.They call it CH4 optimization of
                bio-waste via microbial

                fuel cell control. On a lighter side they mention the project is
                full of crap, but

                who's to judge?
                > The Fair is in Atlanta, Ga., (acronym ISEF) and he produces electricity and methane

                gas. He, apparently has found a better way to break down cow poop
                using a microbial

                fuel cell to produce clean usable electricity and methane.
                > It says the hydrogen and the ions in the poop react with water. This generates

                electricity and the afore mentioned gas.They then trap the gas and
                store it separately.

                This young man says that while doing his experimenting they had a
                poop explosion.

                It apparently was all over the place.
                > Perhaps down the road this sort of biotechnology will be set up in developing

                countries by aid organizations to power motors and engines to run
                multimachines

                and related equipment.
                > We need more people developing energy from waste products. A few years ago

                their was a people poop palatalization (say that three times quickly)
                operation

                in or around the city of Toronto, Ontario Canada that kept catching
                fire and they

                labelled it a lemon and scrapped it instead of making lemonade. It
                would be nice

                if this young fellow's process could be put to use here even without
                lemons.

                > keep smiling
                > dennis mac
                snip
              • filmaker0012001
                There is a group known as Vote Hemp that are trying to get states to allow farmers to grow Industrial Hemp, but apperently the Feds and the DEA say; A hemp
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 5 4:38 PM
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                  There is a group known as "Vote Hemp" that are trying to get states to
                  allow farmers to grow Industrial Hemp, but apperently the Feds and the
                  DEA say; A hemp plant is a hemp plant, no matter how little THC it has.
                  I'm sure that this would be just one of its uses.


                  --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, erikc <firewevr@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Has anybody ever considered cannabis (hemp) as a possible biodiesel
                  > source. The plant grows like crazy in even poor soils unsuited for
                  > any other kind of agriculture, and every part of the plant is good
                  for
                  > something. In particular, the seeds are rich in an oil that can be
                  > easily converted to biodiesel (and also used for human/animal
                  > nutrition). In temperate or equatorial regions, one can get 3 or 4
                  > crops per year with a yield of something like 15 tonnes of seeds per
                  > hectare.
                  >
                  > Unfortunately, this plant also carries a stigma - people like to
                  smoke
                  > it therefore it is (currently) illegal.
                  >
                • filmaker0012001
                  There is a group known as Vote Hemp that are trying to get states to allow farmers to grow Industrial Hemp, but apperently the Feds and the DEA say; A hemp
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 5 4:38 PM
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                    There is a group known as "Vote Hemp" that are trying to get states to
                    allow farmers to grow Industrial Hemp, but apperently the Feds and the
                    DEA say; A hemp plant is a hemp plant, no matter how little THC it has.
                    I'm sure that this would be just one of its uses.


                    --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, erikc <firewevr@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Has anybody ever considered cannabis (hemp) as a possible biodiesel
                    > source. The plant grows like crazy in even poor soils unsuited for
                    > any other kind of agriculture, and every part of the plant is good
                    for
                    > something. In particular, the seeds are rich in an oil that can be
                    > easily converted to biodiesel (and also used for human/animal
                    > nutrition). In temperate or equatorial regions, one can get 3 or 4
                    > crops per year with a yield of something like 15 tonnes of seeds per
                    > hectare.
                    >
                    > Unfortunately, this plant also carries a stigma - people like to
                    smoke
                    > it therefore it is (currently) illegal.
                    >
                  • erikc
                    ... The seeds are about 50% oil, so figure twice whatever a gallon of oil weighs. What is left over after the oil is expressed is suitable food for both humans
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 5 8:47 PM
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                      Michael Shirley wrote:
                      > On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 06:02:07 -0700, erikc <firewevr@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >> Has anybody ever considered cannabis (hemp) as a possible biodiesel
                      >> source. The plant grows like crazy in even poor soils unsuited for
                      >> any other kind of agriculture, and every part of the plant is good for
                      >> something. In particular, the seeds are rich in an oil that can be
                      >> easily converted to biodiesel (and also used for human/animal
                      >> nutrition). In temperate or equatorial regions, one can get 3 or 4
                      >> crops per year with a yield of something like 15 tonnes of seeds per
                      >> hectare.
                      >>
                      >> Unfortunately, this plant also carries a stigma - people like to smoke
                      >> it therefore it is (currently) illegal.
                      >
                      > There are strains that have next to no THC in them. DEA treats
                      > em all the same though.
                      >
                      > That said, how many pounds of seeds are needed to produce a gallon
                      > of Biodiesel?

                      The seeds are about 50% oil, so figure twice whatever a gallon of oil
                      weighs.

                      What is left over after the oil is expressed is suitable food for both
                      humans and animals being mostly high grade protein.

                      DEA and government attitude towards hemp is more like a religion
                      (think Spanish inquisition) than genuine law enforcement.



                      erikc
                    • a1g2r3i
                      o80406//08:52 Sunday - Pardon - I do not know how to enter links - just search isef Llew Falla I just did and it took me to the Sarnia observer where you
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 6 5:53 AM
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                        o80406//08:52 Sunday - Pardon - I do not know how to enter links -
                        just search isef Llew Falla I just did and it took me to the
                        Sarnia observer where you may read the article yourself.

                        dennis mac

                        --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, erikc <firewevr@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Is there a link to this story or is it just hearsay?
                        >
                        > DennisF MacIntyre wrote:
                        > > Dear Pat
                        > > Here is potential for energy in the third world and
                        elsewhere in the future.
                        >
                        > In todays The Tribune (Welland , Ontario) A young 15 yr old finds a
                        > better way to
                        >
                        > create energy from cow manure. A chap named Llew Falla , from Sarnia,
                        > a science
                        >
                        > fair whiz is what they call him.They call it CH4 optimization of
                        > bio-waste via microbial
                        >
                        > fuel cell control. On a lighter side they mention the project is
                        > full of crap, but
                        >
                        > who's to judge?
                        > > The Fair is in Atlanta, Ga., (acronym ISEF) and he produces
                        electricity and methane
                        >
                        > gas. He, apparently has found a better way to break down cow poop
                        > using a microbial
                        >
                        > fuel cell to produce clean usable electricity and methane.
                        > > It says the hydrogen and the ions in the poop react with water.
                        This generates
                        >
                        > electricity and the afore mentioned gas.They then trap the gas and
                        > store it separately.
                        >
                        > This young man says that while doing his experimenting they had a
                        > poop explosion.
                        >
                        > It apparently was all over the place.
                        > > Perhaps down the road this sort of biotechnology will be set up in
                        developing
                        >
                        > countries by aid organizations to power motors and engines to run
                        > multimachines
                        >
                        > and related equipment.
                        > > We need more people developing energy from waste products. A few
                        years ago
                        >
                        > their was a people poop palatalization (say that three times quickly)
                        > operation
                        >
                        > in or around the city of Toronto, Ontario Canada that kept catching
                        > fire and they
                        >
                        > labelled it a lemon and scrapped it instead of making lemonade. It
                        > would be nice
                        >
                        > if this young fellow's process could be put to use here even without
                        > lemons.
                        >
                        > > keep smiling
                        > > dennis mac
                        > >
                        > --
                        > "It may be that the old astrologers had the truth
                        > exactly reversed, when they believed that the stars
                        > controlled the destinies of men. The time may come
                        > when men control the destinies of stars."
                        > Arthur C. Clarke, First on the Moon, 1970
                        >
                      • o1bigtenor
                        ... For the production of cellulosic ethanol sure - bio-diesel - quite a different matter! D
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 6 6:51 AM
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                          On 4/5/08, erikc <firewevr@...> wrote:
                          Has anybody ever considered cannabis (hemp) as a possible biodiesel
                          source.  The plant grows like crazy in even poor soils unsuited for
                          any other kind of agriculture, and every part of the plant is good for
                          something.  In particular, the seeds are rich in an oil that can be
                          easily converted to biodiesel (and also used for human/animal
                          nutrition).  In temperate or equatorial regions, one can get 3 or 4
                          crops per year with a yield of something like 15 tonnes of seeds per
                          hectare.

                          For the production of cellulosic ethanol sure - bio-diesel - quite a different matter!

                          D


                        • o1bigtenor
                          ... OK then you could use it to produce both and I do believe that there would be more ethanol produced as hemp is a prolific biomass producer (and not quite
                          Message 12 of 16 , Apr 6 8:24 PM
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                            On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 9:47 PM, erikc <firewevr@...> wrote:
                            Michael Shirley wrote:
                            > On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 06:02:07 -0700, erikc <firewevr@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >> Has anybody ever considered cannabis (hemp) as a possible biodiesel
                            >> source.  The plant grows like crazy in even poor soils unsuited for
                            >> any other kind of agriculture, and every part of the plant is good for
                            >> something.  In particular, the seeds are rich in an oil that can be
                            >> easily converted to biodiesel (and also used for human/animal
                            >> nutrition).  In temperate or equatorial regions, one can get 3 or 4
                            >> crops per year with a yield of something like 15 tonnes of seeds per
                            >> hectare.
                            >>
                            >> Unfortunately, this plant also carries a stigma - people like to smoke
                            >> it therefore it is (currently) illegal.
                            >
                            >       There are strains that have next to no THC in them. DEA treats
                            > em all the same though.
                            >
                            >       That said, how many pounds of seeds are needed to produce a gallon
                            > of Biodiesel?

                            The seeds are about 50% oil, so figure twice whatever a gallon of oil
                            weighs.

                            What is left over after the oil is expressed is suitable food for both
                            humans and animals being mostly high grade protein.

                            OK then you could use it to produce both and I do believe that there would be more ethanol produced as hemp is a prolific biomass producer (and not quite so good at tonnes of seed per unit area!).

                            D

                          • Scott Copeland
                            I have some experience with DEA. I know some of the concerns are politically motivated, others are more practical. A pot plant will still look like a pot
                            Message 13 of 16 , Apr 7 8:56 AM
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                              I have some experience with DEA. I know some of the
                              concerns are politically motivated, others are more
                              practical. A pot plant will still look like a pot
                              plant. DEA looks for plants mostly from the sky. It
                              is very easy to determine the difference between corn
                              and pot. How do you keep people out of it if it still
                              can be used as a drug?

                              I have some other concerns about using a "food source"
                              as a "fuel source". Look what's going on here in the
                              US now. Food prices are skyrocketing because 1. fuel
                              is expensive and 2. every farmer I know is planting
                              "fuel" crops and not food. I was reading the other
                              day that even if the US converted all of their crops
                              to fuel, it would still be less than 10% of the total
                              use per year. That doesn't include the issues of
                              having to import all food crops from somewhere else.

                              I'd love to see a good energy solution. I do think
                              some kind of hybred electric makes great sense. I've
                              even researched ways to convert my classic Pontiac
                              (yeah, I can afford that)...but its fun to look.

                              Being an electrical engineer, I have worked on a few
                              projects around here to minimize my electric bill.
                              One of which is why I'm in this group. I have several
                              solar cells on the roof of my office. Instead of
                              using the typical battery, DC/AC conversion, I'm using
                              a switched system. I'm not trying to eliminate my
                              need for the grid, just minimize it.

                              I still have my AC sources that power quite a bit of
                              things (PC's, heat pump, etc). I did wire 12VDC,
                              24VDC and 45VDC line directly into my office. I have
                              these switched between the solar cells (using huge
                              capacitors and more circuit to cover the fluxuations
                              coming directly from the solar panels. I have a small
                              microcontroller that watches the current and when it
                              sees the source not meeting the needs, it starts
                              switching loads over to the grid (an AC/DC power
                              supply). If the outside line power fails, I have a
                              UPS wired into the system(still grid powered for now,
                              but I'm working on it).

                              I power virtually all of my electronic projects from
                              this source and it works very well. Am I saving
                              anything? I don't have any real idea yet. I started
                              this for fun as a geek way to start playing with solar
                              panels. However, I have never liked the idea of using
                              expensive, non-ecofriendly batteries and switching
                              from DC to AC and back to DC again.

                              My next goal is to develop (as I learn from everyone
                              here) a PCB assembly system that I can run from the
                              same power source. We already have all of the
                              technology in place (stepper controllers, pickup/place
                              systems). I'm working with an ME friend of mine to
                              design the table and head assembly now.

                              Anyway, that's my ramblings and 2 cents on the
                              subject.

                              Scott

                              --- o1bigtenor <o1bigtenor@...> wrote:

                              > On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 9:47 PM, erikc
                              > <firewevr@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > Michael Shirley wrote:
                              > > > On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 06:02:07 -0700, erikc
                              > <firewevr@...> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > >> Has anybody ever considered cannabis (hemp) as
                              > a possible biodiesel
                              > > >> source. The plant grows like crazy in even
                              > poor soils unsuited for
                              > > >> any other kind of agriculture, and every part
                              > of the plant is good for
                              > > >> something. In particular, the seeds are rich
                              > in an oil that can be
                              > > >> easily converted to biodiesel (and also used
                              > for human/animal
                              > > >> nutrition). In temperate or equatorial
                              > regions, one can get 3 or 4
                              > > >> crops per year with a yield of something like
                              > 15 tonnes of seeds per
                              > > >> hectare.
                              > > >>
                              > > >> Unfortunately, this plant also carries a stigma
                              > - people like to smoke
                              > > >> it therefore it is (currently) illegal.
                              > > >
                              > > > There are strains that have next to no THC
                              > in them. DEA treats
                              > > > em all the same though.
                              > > >
                              > > > That said, how many pounds of seeds are
                              > needed to produce a gallon
                              > > > of Biodiesel?
                              > >
                              > > The seeds are about 50% oil, so figure twice
                              > whatever a gallon of oil
                              > > weighs.
                              > >
                              > > What is left over after the oil is expressed is
                              > suitable food for both
                              > > humans and animals being mostly high grade
                              > protein.
                              >
                              >
                              > OK then you could use it to produce both and I do
                              > believe that there would
                              > be more ethanol produced as hemp is a prolific
                              > biomass producer (and not
                              > quite so good at tonnes of seed per unit area!).
                              >
                              > D
                              >



                              ____________________________________________________________________________________
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                            • Scott Copeland
                              Sorry about that, I was intending to send that to the group and missed my click. Scott ...
                              Message 14 of 16 , Apr 7 8:57 AM
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                                Sorry about that, I was intending to send that to the
                                group and missed my click.

                                Scott

                                --- o1bigtenor <o1bigtenor@...> wrote:

                                > On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 9:47 PM, erikc
                                > <firewevr@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > Michael Shirley wrote:
                                > > > On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 06:02:07 -0700, erikc
                                > <firewevr@...> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > >> Has anybody ever considered cannabis (hemp) as
                                > a possible biodiesel
                                > > >> source. The plant grows like crazy in even
                                > poor soils unsuited for
                                > > >> any other kind of agriculture, and every part
                                > of the plant is good for
                                > > >> something. In particular, the seeds are rich
                                > in an oil that can be
                                > > >> easily converted to biodiesel (and also used
                                > for human/animal
                                > > >> nutrition). In temperate or equatorial
                                > regions, one can get 3 or 4
                                > > >> crops per year with a yield of something like
                                > 15 tonnes of seeds per
                                > > >> hectare.
                                > > >>
                                > > >> Unfortunately, this plant also carries a stigma
                                > - people like to smoke
                                > > >> it therefore it is (currently) illegal.
                                > > >
                                > > > There are strains that have next to no THC
                                > in them. DEA treats
                                > > > em all the same though.
                                > > >
                                > > > That said, how many pounds of seeds are
                                > needed to produce a gallon
                                > > > of Biodiesel?
                                > >
                                > > The seeds are about 50% oil, so figure twice
                                > whatever a gallon of oil
                                > > weighs.
                                > >
                                > > What is left over after the oil is expressed is
                                > suitable food for both
                                > > humans and animals being mostly high grade
                                > protein.
                                >
                                >
                                > OK then you could use it to produce both and I do
                                > believe that there would
                                > be more ethanol produced as hemp is a prolific
                                > biomass producer (and not
                                > quite so good at tonnes of seed per unit area!).
                                >
                                > D
                                >



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