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Re: [multimachine] mitre gears

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  • Charles Mitchard
    Thanks Carl and everyone else, some excellent suggestions. If anyone is interested in what I am attempting then go to my site and look under Other Projects
    Message 1 of 19 , Jul 2, 2005
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      Thanks Carl and everyone else, some excellent suggestions.
      If anyone is interested in what I am attempting then go to my site and look
      under "Other Projects" "Leaning recumbent trike" Actually I would love some
      feed back as to its viability.

      I've knocked up a quick and simple design to keep the weight down. Due to
      pedal power weight is important so that stops the use of small car rear
      diffs and most atv diffs, they are just too large.
      I rather like the idea of two chains and splitting the rear axle. I will
      give this some further thought although at first glance it may be too
      difficult to implement the leaning component easily.
      I've found a gear producer here in australia that has exactly what I want
      but at $25 each ouch.
      If I order from the US then all the addons make it a futile excercise.
      Many thanks
      Charles

      At 12:49 PM 6/30/05, you wrote:

      >Boston Gear
      >Small Parts, Inc
      >Stock Drive Products
      >WM Berg
      >
      >The above are all good sources for new gears and differentials
      >
      >You might also look around on the surplus market for differentials and
      >miter gears, from places such as Surplus Sales, Surplus
      >Center, Herbach & Rademan, and a gazillion others. (my paper catalog for
      >Surplus Center shows item #13-1305 a 3hp diff about like
      >what you want, but it's not on their web site. Possibly out or
      >something. Worth a call, though, especially for $35.)
      >
      >Found this: http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm?subsection=19&category=178
      >
      >Lightweight miter gears can be had from actual differentials from small
      >cars and such, as well. Most differentials use two driven
      >gears and two idler gears, so the method of attachment will be a big part
      >of the equation as well. Some lawn tractors and such also
      >have differentials, and likely a few pounds lighter. Not sure if some RC
      >car diffs will do, but they have to be pretty stout to
      >take some of the abuse they get.
      >
      >An idea you might or might not have considered would be to create a
      >separate spindle axle that carries the differential in the
      >middle, and has individual sprockets and chains to each wheel. Creates a
      >whole lot of space and allows your body to actually be
      >where the axles would be. Thought I'd throw that out FWIW.

      http://members.iinet.net.au/~charlesmitchard/index.html


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    • Peter sanders
      Hi Charles While reading this email a couple of things came to mind. FWIW here are my 30 seconds of thoughts :D Modify your frame so that one or more springs
      Message 2 of 19 , Jul 3, 2005
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        Hi Charles

        While reading this email a couple of things came to mind. FWIW here are my
        30 seconds of thoughts :D

        Modify your frame so that one or more springs allow the "weight" of the
        rider to cause it to tilt into the corners, but will "self centre" the
        frame when riding in a straight line.

        Use a tubular axle to drive the wheels. A solid axle could be used to
        support the frame and the outer end of the axle could be held by the
        frame. The tubes (surrounding the solid axle) could each have a chain
        driven (freewheeling) gear. Using two gears (one on each axle tube) would
        allow the inner wheel while turning, to receive power while the outer
        wheel could freewheel a little.

        BTW I'm in Perth WA.

        On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 23:40:41 +0800, Charles Mitchard
        <charlesmitchard@...> wrote:

        > I've knocked up a quick and simple design to keep the weight down. Due to
        > pedal power weight is important so that stops the use of small car rear
        > diffs and most atv diffs, they are just too large.
        > I rather like the idea of two chains and splitting the rear axle. I will
        > give this some further thought although at first glance it may be too
        > difficult to implement the leaning component easily.
        > I've found a gear producer here in australia that has exactly what I want
        > but at $25 each ouch.

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        Regards

        Peter

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      • Peter sanders
        Hi Again Sorry, I meant cause the WHEELS to tilt into the corner, not the frame. On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 09:40:49 +0800, Peter sanders ... -- Regards Peter Using
        Message 3 of 19 , Jul 3, 2005
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          Hi Again

          Sorry, I meant cause the WHEELS to tilt into the corner, not the frame.

          On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 09:40:49 +0800, Peter sanders
          <psanders@...> wrote:

          > Hi Charles
          >
          > While reading this email a couple of things came to mind. FWIW here are
          > my
          > 30 seconds of thoughts :D
          >
          > Modify your frame so that one or more springs allow the "weight" of the
          > rider to cause it to tilt into the corners, but will "self centre" the
          > frame when riding in a straight line.
          >
          > Use a tubular axle to drive the wheels. A solid axle could be used to
          > support the frame and the outer end of the axle could be held by the
          > frame. The tubes (surrounding the solid axle) could each have a chain
          > driven (freewheeling) gear. Using two gears (one on each axle tube) would
          > allow the inner wheel while turning, to receive power while the outer
          > wheel could freewheel a little.
          >
          > BTW I'm in Perth WA.
          >
          > On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 23:40:41 +0800, Charles Mitchard
          > <charlesmitchard@...> wrote:
          >
          >> I've knocked up a quick and simple design to keep the weight down. Due
          >> to
          >> pedal power weight is important so that stops the use of small car rear
          >> diffs and most atv diffs, they are just too large.
          >> I rather like the idea of two chains and splitting the rear axle. I will
          >> give this some further thought although at first glance it may be too
          >> difficult to implement the leaning component easily.
          >> I've found a gear producer here in australia that has exactly what I
          >> want
          >> but at $25 each ouch.
          >



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          Regards

          Peter

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        • charlesmitchard@iinet.net.au
          Hi Peter, thanks for your thoughts, we seem to be on the same track. ... I m setting the frame up very low so the weight is below the centre line of the rear
          Message 4 of 19 , Jul 3, 2005
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            Hi Peter, thanks for your thoughts, we seem to be on the same track.


            > Modify your frame so that one or more springs allow the "weight" of the
            > rider to cause it to tilt into the corners, but will "self centre" the
            > frame when riding in a straight line.

            I'm setting the frame up very low so the weight is below the centre line of
            the rear axle. Hopefully this will cause the vehicle to sit upright when
            stationary. Failing that then I was going to experiment with strong bungee
            type springs to keep everything central.

            >
            > Use a tubular axle to drive the wheels. A solid axle could be used to
            > support the frame and the outer end of the axle could be held by the
            > frame. The tubes (surrounding the solid axle) could each have a chain
            > driven (freewheeling) gear. Using two gears (one on each axle tube) would
            > allow the inner wheel while turning, to receive power while the outer
            > wheel could freewheel a little.

            I'm not too sure what you mean by the first part but the freewheeling outer
            wheel is what I'm trying to get away from. My feeling is that by having the
            inner wheel powering round corners will produce over steer.
            I dont know if you have had a look at the design on my site but I also have
            independent rear suspension as well as tilting rear wheels.

            >
            > BTW I'm in Perth WA.
            >

            I'm up in the tropics of NQ, Townsville, totally clouded out at the moment.
            Kind regards
            Charles
          • Peter sanders
            Hi Charles ... The princple would not work on a design as you have described, I thought about this before thinking of the tilting wheels. ... Hmmm? My thoughts
            Message 5 of 19 , Jul 3, 2005
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              Hi Charles

              On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:09:10 +0800, <charlesmitchard@...> wrote:

              >> Use a tubular axle to drive the wheels. A solid axle could be used to
              >> support the frame and the outer end of the axle could be held by the
              >> frame. The tubes (surrounding the solid axle) could each have a chain
              >> driven (freewheeling) gear. Using two gears (one on each axle tube)
              >> would
              >> allow the inner wheel while turning, to receive power while the outer
              >> wheel could freewheel a little.
              >
              > I'm not too sure what you mean by the first part

              The princple would not work on a design as you have described, I thought
              about this before thinking of the tilting wheels.

              > but the freewheeling outer wheel is what I'm trying to get away from. My
              > feeling is that by having the inner wheel powering round corners will
              > produce over steer.

              Hmmm? My thoughts were that if you use two freewheeling sprockets ie like
              those on a single speed bike, you know the type. The kind that has the
              "ratchet" mechanism to allow the rider to stop pedalling while the wheel
              can still rotate.

              The principle being that pedalling will STILL DRIVE BOTH wheels, however
              the freewheeling ability of the sprocket will allow the outer wheel to
              travel "faster" to cover the extra distabce around the corner. In so doing
              the sprocket driving the outer wheel may "ratchet" a few times due to the
              extra speed, BUT it is still being driven by the power of the rider.

              I think the drive/freewheel/drive/freewheel sequence would give a
              differential like functionallity, though NOT being driven 100% of the
              time. This repeating while cornering, drive/freewheel/drive/freewheel
              sequence, should still provide sufficient drive force to prevent
              oversteer. The drive to the outside wheel would become proportionate to
              the rate of the turn.

              As you cycle through the corner the outside wheel would "ratchet" a couple
              of clicks until the driving "force" catches up, ie synchonises with the
              internal drive of the ratchet mechanism. Momentarilty of course the outer
              wheel would then travel a little faster around the corner. This would then
              cause the ratchet to again "feewheel" one or two ratchet "clicks" until
              the "rotational position" of the wheel causes the ratchet mechansim to be
              in a position to be driven again.

              This description sounds more complicated than the idea seems to me to be,
              however I hope you understand what I am attempting to describe :D

              > I dont know if you have had a look at the design on my site but I also
              > have
              > independent rear suspension as well as tilting rear wheels.
              >
              >>
              >> BTW I'm in Perth WA.
              >>
              >
              > I'm up in the tropics of NQ, Townsville, totally clouded out at the
              > moment.
              > Kind regards
              > Charles
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >



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              Regards

              Peter

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