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Re: [multimachine] Re: Lighting Africa

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  • Abdul K. Kargbo
    Pat, Another question. Is it true that LEDs give off brigter light but need less power? If so, wouldn t they lend themselves to a low-wattage source, something
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 16, 2007
      Pat,
       
      Another question. Is it true that LEDs give off brigter light but need less power? If so, wouldn't they lend themselves to a low-wattage source, something like a hand-crank or even bicycle-crank arrangement?
       
      Also, so I don't keep bombarding you with questions, is there any place where I can get some information about this sort of thing, a kind of Electricity Generation for Dummies?

       
      On 10/16/07, Pat Delany <rigmatch@...> wrote:

      Many thanks Abdul
      it's a long shot but I am going to try it! The people want hydrocarbon
      free ways of producing lighting. The MM won't do this but remember my
      idea of a small factory that would use fuel for only an hour or so a
      day with the rest of the time used for hand or battery powered
      finishing and assembly. Batteries for village lighting could be
      charged during the "powered" time.

      What do you think?

      Pat

      --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "Abdul K. Kargbo"


      <abdul.k.kargbo@...> wrote:
      >
      > Has anyone seen this?
      >
      > Any interest?
      >
      >
      http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/OPPORTUNITIES/GRANTS/DEVMARKETPLACE/0,,menuPK:180652~pagePK:180657~piPK:180651~theSitePK:205098,00.html
      >
      > --
      > Abdul K. Kargbo
      >
      > --------------------------------------------
      > There are consequences to playing by the rules.
      >




      --
      Abdul K. Kargbo

      --------------------------------------------
      There are consequences to playing by the rules.
    • Erik Lane
      http://journeytoforever.org/ has some stuff like that, but not just electricity. At any rate if you aren t familiar with it you could check it out and see if
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 16, 2007
        http://journeytoforever.org/ has some stuff like that, but not just electricity. At any rate if you aren't familiar with it you could check it out and see if anything would help. Look at Appropriate Technology, for example.

        LEDs need far less power than other sources for an equivalent amount of light. In fact there are emergency flashlights that are handcrank only. They work well, but I don't know how available they are over there. But home-made solutions should also work, as long as the design was right.

        Google has all kinds of answers
        http://www.google.com/search?q=small+scale+electricity+generation&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

        Best of luck!
        Erik

        On 10/16/07, Abdul K. Kargbo <abdul.k.kargbo@...> wrote:
        Pat,
         
        Another question. Is it true that LEDs give off brigter light but need less power? If so, wouldn't they lend themselves to a low-wattage source, something like a hand-crank or even bicycle-crank arrangement?
         
        Also, so I don't keep bombarding you with questions, is there any place where I can get some information about this sort of thing, a kind of Electricity Generation for Dummies?

         
        On 10/16/07, Pat Delany <rigmatch@... > wrote:

        Many thanks Abdul
        it's a long shot but I am going to try it! The people want hydrocarbon
        free ways of producing lighting. The MM won't do this but remember my
        idea of a small factory that would use fuel for only an hour or so a
        day with the rest of the time used for hand or battery powered
        finishing and assembly. Batteries for village lighting could be
        charged during the "powered" time.

        What do you think?

        Pat

        --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "Abdul K. Kargbo"


        <abdul.k.kargbo@...> wrote:
        >
        > Has anyone seen this?
        >
        > Any interest?
        >
        >
        http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/OPPORTUNITIES/GRANTS/DEVMARKETPLACE/0,,menuPK:180652~pagePK:180657~piPK:180651~theSitePK:205098,00.html
        >
        > --
        > Abdul K. Kargbo
        >
        > --------------------------------------------
        > There are consequences to playing by the rules.
        >




        --
        Abdul K. Kargbo

        --------------------------------------------
        There are consequences to playing by the rules.

      • keith gutshall
        Hello Abdul I have used LEDs for some projects, They do work good. Most of the one I have work on 2.5 volts maximum voltage.Any higher voltage burn them out.If
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 16, 2007
          Hello Abdul
           I have used LEDs for some projects, They do work good.
           Most of the one I have work on 2.5 volts maximum voltage.Any higher voltage burn them out.If you have a higher voltage than that you have to put a resistor in the circuit to control voltage.
           They use a 100 mWatts of power working.
           Some may use more power, it depends on the type of LEDs.
           Keith

          "Abdul K. Kargbo" <abdul.k.kargbo@...> wrote:
          Pat,
           
          Another question. Is it true that LEDs give off brigter light but need less power? If so, wouldn't they lend themselves to a low-wattage source, something like a hand-crank or even bicycle-crank arrangement?
           
          Also, so I don't keep bombarding you with questions, is there any place where I can get some information about this sort of thing, a kind of Electricity Generation for Dummies?

           
          On 10/16/07, Pat Delany <rigmatch@yahoo. com> wrote:
          Many thanks Abdul
          it's a long shot but I am going to try it! The people want hydrocarbon
          free ways of producing lighting. The MM won't do this but remember my
          idea of a small factory that would use fuel for only an hour or so a
          day with the rest of the time used for hand or battery powered
          finishing and assembly. Batteries for village lighting could be
          charged during the "powered" time.

          What do you think?

          Pat

          --- In multimachine@ yahoogroups. com, "Abdul K. Kargbo"

          <abdul.k.kargbo@ ...> wrote:
          >
          > Has anyone seen this?
          >
          > Any interest?
          >
          >
          http://web.worldban k.org/WBSITE/ EXTERNAL/ OPPORTUNITIES/ GRANTS/DEVMARKET PLACE/0,, menuPK:180652~ pagePK:180657~ piPK:180651~ theSitePK: 205098,00. html
          >
          > --
          > Abdul K. Kargbo
          >
          > ------------ --------- --------- --------- -----
          > There are consequences to playing by the rules.
          >




          --
          Abdul K. Kargbo

          ------------ --------- --------- --------- -----
          There are consequences to playing by the rules.



          Deep Run Portage
          Back Shop
          " The Lizard Works"


          Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.

        • David G. LeVine
          ... Car batteries are not very good, industrial and telco batteries are much better but less efficient. There is an iron battery which has seen a lot of
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 16, 2007
            At 04:36 PM 10/16/2007, you wrote:
            >I'm not going to enter (for already mentioned reasons) but do you
            >think some kind of wind-powered generator is feasible? Maybe it
            >could connect to a car battery which I know gets recharged while the
            >engine is running and then stores energy after the engine is
            >switched off. I know lots of people used car batteries to power
            >radios and transistors and I also recently heard people were using
            >car batteries to even power computers.

            Car batteries are not very good, industrial and telco batteries are
            much better but less efficient. There is an "iron" battery which has
            seen a lot of play recently and is VERY rugged.

            See the "axial_flux" yahoo group for how to make inexpensive direct
            drive alternators for wind turbines.

            >Also, is it possible to create something that works like a car
            >battery without have to depend on real batteries?

            That depends on what you really mean. Single cells used in banks in
            fork trucks will work well. A number of different chemistries will
            work and a number of different construction systems will work. It
            all depends on what is available. A Li Ion bank from a Prius will
            work if one is crashed, but would be outrageous as an imported
            battery bank. What is available will affect the final choices. A
            reservoir and a waterwheel may be better than electricity.


            David G. LeVine
            Nashua, NH 03060
          • Tim Schmidt
            It s going to be hard to beat this kid: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/4224763.html Looks like his solution could be mass produced for a
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 16, 2007
              It's going to be hard to beat this kid:

              http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/4224763.html

              Looks like his solution could be mass produced for a dollar or two,
              and direct-drive LEDs or charge tiny batteries.

              --tim
            • David G. LeVine
              ... Not exactly. LEDs and CFLs are about equal, but small LED sources are really desirable. LEDs are rugged (survive a 20 foot drop easily) and last a long
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 17, 2007
                At 04:51 PM 10/16/2007, you wrote:
                >Another question. Is it true that LEDs give off brigter light but
                >need less power? If so, wouldn't they lend themselves to a
                >low-wattage source, something like a hand-crank or even
                >bicycle-crank arrangement?

                Not exactly. LEDs and CFLs are about equal, but small LED sources
                are really desirable. LEDs are rugged (survive a 20 foot drop
                easily) and last a long time (100,000 hours or more.) We have hand
                cranked or hand shaken units which work well and sell in the
                $5.00-$20.00 range, some Chinese units sell for $2.00.

                A single 60 mW white LED is brighter than four candles and can be
                used for reading. In the USA Walmart sells such a lamp for under
                $1.50! The LED is rated for 100,000 hours of use, that's over 10
                years, 24 hours per day.

                At 20 mA a car battery (running to 80% of full charge) will last
                around 400 hours -- a month of nights at 16 hours per night --
                without recharging -- running four LEDs in series. I know that that
                is plenty of time for the sun or wind to be able to come up and it
                takes 10 hours of sun (at 1 Ampere) to fully recharge the
                battery. Take a village of 10 huts with 4 lights each and it will
                still give 40 hours of light -- I will bet that with simple rationing
                (8 hours per night if the sun or wind is unavailable for 2 days
                straight) it would not be difficult to make it work. Most
                communities would be asleep in the dark anyway.

                Having adequate light for reading and needlework would hardly be a
                bad thing, adding inexpensive radios with low power requirements
                would allow warnings and education to enter the lives of those who
                live with none now. Remember 1/4 watt is enough for many radios with
                limited volume and the design techniques are there for mass
                production for under $1.00 (all prices are US Dollars) per unit *with
                a profit margin*.

                For $1,000 Mouser will sell you 2,000 bright white LEDs, double that
                for wiring and current limiters and a residence can be lighted for
                $5.00. A 12 Volt 40 AH sealed gel cell costs about $100 in quantity
                1, maintenance free and deep cycle batteries are cheaper but not as
                safe. With a quantity buy, I would bet a price of $50.00 is not
                impossible. Remember each village only needs 50 LEDs (10 spares) so
                the battery count is around 50 (40 villages plus some spares) to 80
                (one spare per village.) Add in a 15 Watt solar panel and charge
                controller or a wind turbine (also 15 watts AVERAGE, much more
                expensive than solar panels for low power systems) and the costs get
                to be in the hundreds (15 Watt solar panels cost between $50 and
                $200, charge controllers can be in the $25 range, total expense in
                the $100 range in quantity with very frugal buyers.)

                So figure about $200-$250 per village with no amenities and $150 more
                with one radio to $250 more for one radio per residence. With
                transportation and "advisor" costs, $1,000 per village would
                work. Since the value of the lights and radios is minimal and they
                are useless without the power infrastructure, the only parts worth
                stealing are the batteries and solar panels and they are centralized.

                The batteries won't work on trucks (not enough current available to
                start them) so they are low value on the black market, only the solar
                panels are worth stealing. They are light and have value on the
                black market, but every panel stolen means someone will use solar
                power instead of fossil fuel, which could help the import-export balance.

                These do have military value -- a $500 setup will make for a barracks
                with reading lights and radios for 40 or more men. That means that
                rebels will take the systems to light up their tunnels and
                barracks. However the radios are of very limited value and can be
                built to radiate a small amount of RF, so the rebels will give away
                their positions if they use them. In fact, the solar panels can be
                built so the built-in controllers transmit a beacon every so often,
                making the rebels easier to locate and making the black market value
                nil! After all, would you buy a black market item which told
                everyone where it was every time it was used?

                David G. LeVine
                Nashua, NH 03060
              • Randy Kramer
                ... Excellent, helpful post, but because I got ripped off, every chance I get I try to tell people that some, many, or all of those
                Message 7 of 12 , Oct 17, 2007
                  On Wednesday 17 October 2007 04:22 am, David G. LeVine wrote:
                  > Not exactly. LEDs and CFLs are about equal, but small LED sources
                  > are really desirable. LEDs are rugged (survive a 20 foot drop
                  > easily) and last a long time (100,000 hours or more.) We have hand
                  > cranked or hand shaken units which work well and sell in the
                  > $5.00-$20.00 range, some Chinese units sell for $2.00.

                  <other good stuff snipped>

                  Excellent, helpful post, but because I got ripped off, every chance I get I
                  try to tell people that some, many, or all of those $2 (to $5 or more)
                  Chinese units, although they do use LEDs and look like they're hand shaken,
                  are really not.

                  Two that I bought have all the accouterments (sp?) of a hand shaken unit, but,
                  in addition, two small batteries (the thin disk computer BIOS/clock type)
                  "hidden" inside, and they are what powers the unit. (The batteries are
                  actually not really hidden, just not obvious until you open the unit and
                  realize what those extra washer like looking things are. The "magnet" is not
                  even a magnet, just a cylindrical slug of steel.

                  (Since I bought them, I haven't been able to find the people I bought them
                  from (at a local flea / craft type market, but including "new" merchandise).)

                  But, just to be clear, everything else you say about LED lighting and
                  generators and batteries, etc. seems to make a lot of sense.

                  regards,
                  Randy Kramer
                • Abdul K. Kargbo
                  Thank you guys very much! ... -- Abdul K. Kargbo ... There are consequences to playing by the rules.
                  Message 8 of 12 , Oct 17, 2007
                    Thank you guys very much!

                    On 10/16/07, Erik Lane <eriklane@...> wrote:

                    http://journeytoforever.org/ has some stuff like that, but not just electricity. At any rate if you aren't familiar with it you could check it out and see if anything would help. Look at Appropriate Technology, for example.

                    LEDs need far less power than other sources for an equivalent amount of light. In fact there are emergency flashlights that are handcrank only. They work well, but I don't know how available they are over there. But home-made solutions should also work, as long as the design was right.

                    Google has all kinds of answers
                    http://www.google.com/search?q=small+scale+electricity+generation&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

                    Best of luck!
                    Erik



                    On 10/16/07, Abdul K. Kargbo <abdul.k.kargbo@... > wrote:
                    Pat,
                     
                    Another question. Is it true that LEDs give off brigter light but need less power? If so, wouldn't they lend themselves to a low-wattage source, something like a hand-crank or even bicycle-crank arrangement?
                     
                    Also, so I don't keep bombarding you with questions, is there any place where I can get some information about this sort of thing, a kind of Electricity Generation for Dummies?

                     
                    On 10/16/07, Pat Delany <rigmatch@... > wrote:

                    Many thanks Abdul
                    it's a long shot but I am going to try it! The people want hydrocarbon
                    free ways of producing lighting. The MM won't do this but remember my
                    idea of a small factory that would use fuel for only an hour or so a
                    day with the rest of the time used for hand or battery powered
                    finishing and assembly. Batteries for village lighting could be
                    charged during the "powered" time.

                    What do you think?

                    Pat

                    --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "Abdul K. Kargbo"


                    <abdul.k.kargbo@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Has anyone seen this?
                    >
                    > Any interest?
                    >
                    >
                    http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/OPPORTUNITIES/GRANTS/DEVMARKETPLACE/0,,menuPK:180652~pagePK:180657~piPK:180651~theSitePK:205098,00.html
                    >
                    > --
                    > Abdul K. Kargbo
                    >
                    > --------------------------------------------
                    > There are consequences to playing by the rules.
                    >




                    --
                    Abdul K. Kargbo

                    --------------------------------------------
                    There are consequences to playing by the rules.




                    --
                    Abdul K. Kargbo

                    --------------------------------------------
                    There are consequences to playing by the rules.
                  • Abdul K. Kargbo
                    Awesome! ... -- Abdul K. Kargbo ... There are consequences to playing by the rules.
                    Message 9 of 12 , Oct 17, 2007
                      Awesome!


                       
                      On 10/17/07, Tim Schmidt <timschmidt@...> wrote:

                      It's going to be hard to beat this kid:

                      http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/4224763.html

                      Looks like his solution could be mass produced for a dollar or two,
                      and direct-drive LEDs or charge tiny batteries.

                      --tim




                      --
                      Abdul K. Kargbo

                      --------------------------------------------
                      There are consequences to playing by the rules.
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