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worn engine question

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  • Pat Delany
    If an engine block is badly worn, usually how out of round is the very bottom of the cylinder bore? The reason for this question is that if re-boring a block
    Message 1 of 13 , May 6, 2007
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      If an engine block is badly worn, usually how out of round is the very
      bottom of the cylinder bore? The reason for this question is that if
      re-boring a block for MM roller bearings is impossible for any reason
      and the block has not been ridge reamed, could aluminum alloy sleeves
      be machined to either act as bearing adapters or as sleeve bearings
      themselves?

      Maybe thick epoxy could be used as a filler between the worn top of
      the cylinder and the new sleeve?

      Pat
    • Darwin Wandler
      I have bored and rebuilt at least 200 engines. In the worst of them the bottom of the cylinder has little to no wear, less than .010 . However the top usually
      Message 2 of 13 , May 6, 2007
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        I have bored and rebuilt at least 200 engines. In the worst of them the
        bottom of the cylinder has little to no wear, less than .010". However
        the top usually takes .030" bore to clean up the ring ridge. When I sleeved
        a block it was bored out .2" and a cast iron sleeve, purchased standard size,
        was pounded in with .0003" interference max. If the block is bored properly
        .0001 interference to .0002" is plenty because the lip on the bottom of the
        block stops movement and the head on the top keps it in place. We used
        locktight or sleeve retainer to hold in place. Epoxy is too thick and sticks
        while being installed siezing on the way in. The sleeve retainer acts as a
        lubricant for installation and hardens with time to glue the sleeve.
        Darwin

        Pat Delany wrote:

        If an engine block is badly worn, usually how out of round is the very
        bottom of the cylinder bore? The reason for this question is that if
        re-boring a block for MM roller bearings is impossible for any reason
        and the block has not been ridge reamed, could aluminum alloy sleeves
        be machined to either act as bearing adapters or as sleeve bearings
        themselves?

        Maybe thick epoxy could be used as a filler between the worn top of
        the cylinder and the new sleeve?

        Pat


      • Pat Delany
        Thanks Darwin This seems to me at least, a very big deal. If boring the block was impossible, 2 simple and short (3 ?) sleeves could be made out of something
        Message 3 of 13 , May 8, 2007
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          Thanks Darwin
          This seems to me at least, a very big deal. If boring the block was
          impossible, 2 simple and short (3"?) sleeves could be made out of
          something like za-12 or 27. The sleeves could work as either bushings
          or as adapters for ball or roller bearings if they were epoxied in
          place using a snug fitting, well greased spindle to hold them in line.
          Using this technique would mean that a reasonably accurate spindle and
          overarm would always be possible. It would only require a "temporary"
          lathe able to bore a 3" long, 3 1/2" to 4 " OD alloy sleeve to make
          almost any kind of MM or lathe.

          What do you think?

          Pat

          --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Darwin Wandler <wandler@...> wrote:
          >
          > I have bored and rebuilt at least 200 engines. In the worst of them the
          > bottom of the cylinder has little to no wear, less than .010". However
          > the top usually takes .030" bore to clean up the ring ridge. When I
          sleeved
          > a block it was bored out .2" and a cast iron sleeve, purchased standard
          > size,
          > was pounded in with .0003" interference max. If the block is bored
          properly
          > .0001 interference to .0002" is plenty because the lip on the bottom
          of the
          > block stops movement and the head on the top keps it in place. We used
          > locktight or sleeve retainer to hold in place. Epoxy is too thick
          and sticks
          > while being installed siezing on the way in. The sleeve retainer
          acts as a
          > lubricant for installation and hardens with time to glue the sleeve.
          > Darwin
          >
          > Pat Delany wrote:
          >
          > > If an engine block is badly worn, usually how out of round is the very
          > > bottom of the cylinder bore? The reason for this question is that if
          > > re-boring a block for MM roller bearings is impossible for any reason
          > > and the block has not been ridge reamed, could aluminum alloy sleeves
          > > be machined to either act as bearing adapters or as sleeve bearings
          > > themselves?
          > >
          > > Maybe thick epoxy could be used as a filler between the worn top of
          > > the cylinder and the new sleeve?
          > >
          > > Pat
          > >
          > >
          >
        • David G. LeVine
          ... Pat, On the original MM, didn t you have a big ball bearing mounted to the block? With a sleeved shaft and a cutter, I bet a boring bar would be pretty
          Message 4 of 13 , May 8, 2007
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            At 08:26 PM 5/8/2007, you wrote:
            >This seems to me at least, a very big deal. If boring the block was
            >impossible, 2 simple and short (3"?) sleeves could be made out of
            >something like za-12 or 27. The sleeves could work as either bushings
            >or as adapters for ball or roller bearings if they were epoxied in
            >place using a snug fitting, well greased spindle to hold them in line.
            >Using this technique would mean that a reasonably accurate spindle and
            >overarm would always be possible. It would only require a "temporary"
            >lathe able to bore a 3" long, 3 1/2" to 4 " OD alloy sleeve to make
            >almost any kind of MM or lathe.
            >
            >What do you think?
            >
            >Pat

            Pat,

            On the original MM, didn't you have a big ball bearing mounted to the
            block? With a sleeved shaft and a cutter, I bet a boring bar would
            be pretty easy to make and a belt drive to the shaft would provide
            motive power. Now if the ball bearing can handle the shaft and the
            slide/table can move the mount on the other end, cuts of a few
            thousandths would be pretty easy (see how Gingery did that.)


            David G. LeVine
            Nashua, NH 03060
          • Pat Delany
            ... The first MM had a 1 15/16 link belt flange bearing on both the block head surface and the main bearing pads. This had 2 serious problems. (1) The Link
            Message 5 of 13 , May 8, 2007
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              --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "David G. LeVine" <dlevine@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > At 08:26 PM 5/8/2007, you wrote:
              > >This seems to me at least, a very big deal. If boring the block was
              > >impossible, 2 simple and short (3"?) sleeves could be made out of
              > >something like za-12 or 27. The sleeves could work as either bushings
              > >or as adapters for ball or roller bearings if they were epoxied in
              > >place using a snug fitting, well greased spindle to hold them in line.
              > >Using this technique would mean that a reasonably accurate spindle and
              > >overarm would always be possible. It would only require a "temporary"
              > >lathe able to bore a 3" long, 3 1/2" to 4 " OD alloy sleeve to make
              > >almost any kind of MM or lathe.
              > >
              > >What do you think?
              > >
              > >Pat
              >
              > Pat,
              >
              > On the original MM, didn't you have a big ball bearing mounted to the
              > block? With a sleeved shaft and a cutter, I bet a boring bar would
              > be pretty easy to make and a belt drive to the shaft would provide
              > motive power. Now if the ball bearing can handle the shaft and the
              > slide/table can move the mount on the other end, cuts of a few
              > thousandths would be pretty easy (see how Gingery did that.)
              >
              >
              > David G. LeVine
              > Nashua, NH 03060
              >
              The first MM had a 1 15/16" link belt flange bearing on both the block
              head surface and the main bearing pads. This had 2 serious problems.
              (1) The Link Belt bearings from Surplus Center were of very uneven
              quality (one was loose as a goose!)and (2) the fact that the rear
              bearing was hard to align without a making a spacer that would center
              the shaft at the rear of the cylinder bore.

              Would you mind drawing a sketch of what you have in mind?

              Pat
            • keith gutshall
              Hello Pat Why would you have to bore the cylinder first? you could build the table and rig up a boreing bar on the small table and than bore the cylinder to
              Message 6 of 13 , May 8, 2007
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                Hello Pat
                 Why would you have to bore the cylinder first? you could build the table and rig up a boreing bar on the small table and than bore the cylinder to fit the bearing.
                 Keith 

                Pat Delany <rigmatch@...> wrote:
                --- In multimachine@ yahoogroups. com, "David G. LeVine" <dlevine@... >
                wrote:
                >
                > At 08:26 PM 5/8/2007, you wrote:
                > >This seems to me at least, a very big deal. If boring the block was
                > >impossible, 2 simple and short (3"?) sleeves could be made out of
                > >something like za-12 or 27. The sleeves could work as either bushings
                > >or as adapters for ball or roller bearings if they were epoxied in
                > >place using a snug fitting, well greased spindle to hold them in line.
                > >Using this technique would mean that a reasonably accurate spindle and
                > >overarm would always be possible. It would only require a "temporary"
                > >lathe able to bore a 3" long, 3 1/2" to 4 " OD alloy sleeve to make
                > >almost any kind of MM or lathe.
                > >
                > >What do you think?
                > >
                > >Pat
                >
                > Pat,
                >
                > On the original MM, didn't you have a big ball bearing mounted to the
                > block? With a sleeved shaft and a cutter, I bet a boring bar would
                > be pretty easy to make and a belt drive to the shaft would provide
                > motive power. Now if the ball bearing can handle the shaft and the
                > slide/table can move the mount on the other end, cuts of a few
                > thousandths would be pretty easy (see how Gingery did that.)
                >
                >
                > David G. LeVine
                > Nashua, NH 03060
                >
                The first MM had a 1 15/16" link belt flange bearing on both the block
                head surface and the main bearing pads. This had 2 serious problems.
                (1) The Link Belt bearings from Surplus Center were of very uneven
                quality (one was loose as a goose!)and (2) the fact that the rear
                bearing was hard to align without a making a spacer that would center
                the shaft at the rear of the cylinder bore.

                Would you mind drawing a sketch of what you have in mind?

                Pat




                Deep Run Portage
                Back Shop
                " The Lizard Works"


                Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
                Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

              • David G. LeVine
                ... Sure, see http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/multimachine/photos/view/7e5a?b=2 (I hope) The hatched stuff is the block with the bad bore. The bearings,
                Message 7 of 13 , May 8, 2007
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                  At 10:23 PM 5/8/2007, you wrote:
                  >Would you mind drawing a sketch of what you have in mind?
                  >
                  >Pat

                  Sure, see
                  http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/multimachine/photos/view/7e5a?b=2 (I hope)

                  The hatched stuff is the block with the bad bore.

                  The bearings, bushings, etc. are self explanatory, the one mounted to
                  the block has a sliding fit to the shaft, the one on the bearing
                  mount must handle both radial and axial loads, it pushes the shaft in and out.

                  The shaft is a hunk of axle with a hole to hold the cutter and a set
                  screw. The cutter is a lathe tool bit (2" long will cut a 3 3/4"
                  bore, I think, from a 1" shaft.) A small jig will need to be made to
                  allow easy setting of the bit (a block with three legs), feeler gages
                  can allow small increases in the bore. Make the jig slightly bigger
                  than the biggest bore and use feelers to set the bit as desired.

                  The drive pulley and mounting block are self explainatory. A motor
                  needs to be mounted to the block to drive this monster <GRIN>.

                  In use, the cutter is pushed back and the gauge with feelers holding
                  it at the right size allows it to be tightened at less than the final
                  bore. The motor is started and the bar is slowly fed into the
                  bore. It should cut very little and allow the operator to see that
                  the bore is true. Then move it out and using a bit less feeler gauge
                  reset the bit. 0.003" per pass will be slow but should be okay with
                  a 1/4 HP motor and light feeds. This relies only on the one bearing
                  which moves being able to follow the path, and that bearing being
                  stable under axial load.

                  It would be neater to use a grinder and dial in an offset as in a
                  boring bar, but that is complex!

                  Interestingly, the bed side of the head can be bored for the main
                  spindle bearing oversized from the bore and once that is in place,
                  the other end can be bored for its bearing! Now the bearing preloads
                  can be set as originally described with two bearings instead of
                  three. Two "Timken" roller bearings from a heavy duty truck.

                  Only the shaft will need to be fairly stable for this to work and the
                  first bearing will have to be a wooden greased dummy to do one
                  bore. Timken style bearings don't work well without the other one to
                  "help" stabilize things.

                  Hmmm, once a boring bar like this is made, the tailstock is easy to
                  bore the same way...

                  David G. LeVine
                  Nashua, NH 03060
                • keith gutshall
                  Hello Pat Maybe the post last night was not to clear. Build the machine doing everything except bore the cylinder to size. after looking a David s idea to bore
                  Message 8 of 13 , May 9, 2007
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                    Hello Pat
                    Maybe the post last night was not to clear.
                     Build the machine doing everything except bore the cylinder to size.
                     after looking a David's idea to bore it .seem good to me.
                     This way you would have somewhere to mount it,and adjust it to zero in.
                     Zero in is where you center the boring shaft.
                    keith
                    Pat Delany <rigmatch@...> wrote:
                    --- In multimachine@ yahoogroups. com, "David G. LeVine" <dlevine@... >
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > At 08:26 PM 5/8/2007, you wrote:
                    > >This seems to me at least, a very big deal. If boring the block was
                    > >impossible, 2 simple and short (3"?) sleeves could be made out of
                    > >something like za-12 or 27. The sleeves could work as either bushings
                    > >or as adapters for ball or roller bearings if they were epoxied in
                    > >place using a snug fitting, well greased spindle to hold them in line.
                    > >Using this technique would mean that a reasonably accurate spindle and
                    > >overarm would always be possible. It would only require a "temporary"
                    > >lathe able to bore a 3" long, 3 1/2" to 4 " OD alloy sleeve to make
                    > >almost any kind of MM or lathe.
                    > >
                    > >What do you think?
                    > >
                    > >Pat
                    >
                    > Pat,
                    >
                    > On the original MM, didn't you have a big ball bearing mounted to the
                    > block? With a sleeved shaft and a cutter, I bet a boring bar would
                    > be pretty easy to make and a belt drive to the shaft would provide
                    > motive power. Now if the ball bearing can handle the shaft and the
                    > slide/table can move the mount on the other end, cuts of a few
                    > thousandths would be pretty easy (see how Gingery did that.)
                    >
                    >
                    > David G. LeVine
                    > Nashua, NH 03060
                    >
                    The first MM had a 1 15/16" link belt flange bearing on both the block
                    head surface and the main bearing pads. This had 2 serious problems.
                    (1) The Link Belt bearings from Surplus Center were of very uneven
                    quality (one was loose as a goose!)and (2) the fact that the rear
                    bearing was hard to align without a making a spacer that would center
                    the shaft at the rear of the cylinder bore.

                    Would you mind drawing a sketch of what you have in mind?

                    Pat




                    Deep Run Portage
                    Back Shop
                    " The Lizard Works"


                    Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
                    Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                  • Pat Delany
                    Thanks David After several failed attempts I decided on the boring the block to fit the bearing idea since (for me) it was foolproof. I felt that anyone in
                    Message 9 of 13 , May 9, 2007
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                      Thanks David
                      After several failed attempts I decided on the "boring the block to
                      fit the bearing" idea since (for me) it was foolproof. I felt that
                      anyone in the western world could save up a hundred bucks or so and
                      get the basic part of an all purpose machine tool that would have the
                      spindle, block, face, end surfaces and overarm in perfect alignment. I
                      thought (still do 4 years later) that this was a beautiful but western
                      world solution.

                      I think that your idea has a lot of great uses but is too difficult
                      for many people.
                      What do you use to accurately machine the end parts?
                      How do adjust the depth of the cut?
                      How do you feed the cutter so that It will cut smoothly and not chatter?
                      How do you bore a 6" deep hole so that it will have the same dimension
                      of each end?
                      I have an old book that shows several boring heads like this and they
                      all are pretty complex devices. Boring steam cylinders was extremely
                      common at one time.

                      I still think that using epoxy putty to "bed" home cast bushings in a
                      worn engine cylinder bore is a vaild"poor boy" solution. I really want
                      a bunch of ideas about this since I need to have a new version of the
                      "book" before the PM article comes out.

                      Pat

                      Pat

                      --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "David G. LeVine" <dlevine@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > At 10:23 PM 5/8/2007, you wrote:
                      > >Would you mind drawing a sketch of what you have in mind?
                      > >
                      > >Pat
                      >
                      > Sure, see
                      > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/multimachine/photos/view/7e5a?b=2
                      (I hope)
                      >
                      > The hatched stuff is the block with the bad bore.
                      >
                      > The bearings, bushings, etc. are self explanatory, the one mounted to
                      > the block has a sliding fit to the shaft, the one on the bearing
                      > mount must handle both radial and axial loads, it pushes the shaft
                      in and out.
                      >
                      > The shaft is a hunk of axle with a hole to hold the cutter and a set
                      > screw. The cutter is a lathe tool bit (2" long will cut a 3 3/4"
                      > bore, I think, from a 1" shaft.) A small jig will need to be made to
                      > allow easy setting of the bit (a block with three legs), feeler gages
                      > can allow small increases in the bore. Make the jig slightly bigger
                      > than the biggest bore and use feelers to set the bit as desired.
                      >
                      > The drive pulley and mounting block are self explainatory. A motor
                      > needs to be mounted to the block to drive this monster <GRIN>.
                      >
                      > In use, the cutter is pushed back and the gauge with feelers holding
                      > it at the right size allows it to be tightened at less than the final
                      > bore. The motor is started and the bar is slowly fed into the
                      > bore. It should cut very little and allow the operator to see that
                      > the bore is true. Then move it out and using a bit less feeler gauge
                      > reset the bit. 0.003" per pass will be slow but should be okay with
                      > a 1/4 HP motor and light feeds. This relies only on the one bearing
                      > which moves being able to follow the path, and that bearing being
                      > stable under axial load.
                      >
                      > It would be neater to use a grinder and dial in an offset as in a
                      > boring bar, but that is complex!
                      >
                      > Interestingly, the bed side of the head can be bored for the main
                      > spindle bearing oversized from the bore and once that is in place,
                      > the other end can be bored for its bearing! Now the bearing preloads
                      > can be set as originally described with two bearings instead of
                      > three. Two "Timken" roller bearings from a heavy duty truck.
                      >
                      > Only the shaft will need to be fairly stable for this to work and the
                      > first bearing will have to be a wooden greased dummy to do one
                      > bore. Timken style bearings don't work well without the other one to
                      > "help" stabilize things.
                      >
                      > Hmmm, once a boring bar like this is made, the tailstock is easy to
                      > bore the same way...
                      >
                      > David G. LeVine
                      > Nashua, NH 03060
                      >
                    • David G. LeVine
                      ... You don t, that s the beauty of it. The one mounted on the block is a hunk of greased wood if you want. The biggest issue if the mounting -- which can
                      Message 10 of 13 , May 9, 2007
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                        >What do you use to accurately machine the end parts?

                        You don't, that's the beauty of it. The one mounted on the block is
                        a hunk of greased wood if you want. The biggest issue if the
                        mounting -- which can also be a hunk of greased wood (they only need
                        to run a few hours total!) For axial loads, a couple of shaft collars.

                        >How do adjust the depth of the cut?

                        The gauge is a hunk of "U" shaped stock with an inside dimension
                        slightly (.050 or so) larger than 1/2 the bore plus 1/2 the shaft
                        diameter. The bit is held in place by a setscrew or just a bolt
                        <GRIN>. The gauge has a gap between two pieces of the "ear" on the
                        side which goes around the shaft big enough that the bit doesn't touch it.

                        The gauge is put over the shaft and bit with feeler gauges between
                        the bit and the gauge, push on the bit and snug the set screw.

                        Run a test cut. Not enough metal removal? Use less feeler stock and repeat.

                        --- top of gauge
                        |O shaft
                        | | bit
                        L--Shim stock goes here

                        - - Ear with gap
                        ||||
                        --- Ear with no gap
                        >How do you feed the cutter so that It will cut smoothly and not chatter?

                        Remember the XY table that is on the bed? If you get really silly, a
                        big "O" ring from the shaft could do it.

                        >How do you bore a 6" deep hole so that it will have the same dimension
                        >of each end?

                        Assuming a straight shaft and reasonable bearings, it can't do
                        otherwise. Besides, the bore is alerady there, the cuts need only be
                        as deep as the bearings need.

                        >I have an old book that shows several boring heads like this and they
                        >all are pretty complex devices. Boring steam cylinders was extremely
                        >common at one time.

                        Yep, and this is the simplified version <GRIN>.

                        >I still think that using epoxy putty to "bed" home cast bushings in a
                        >worn engine cylinder bore is a vaild"poor boy" solution. I really want
                        >a bunch of ideas about this since I need to have a new version of the
                        >"book" before the PM article comes out.

                        That is one approach. Epoxy filled with granite for bearing mounts
                        (see the CNCZONE threads on granite epoxy) is another good
                        choice. DO NOT USE CONCRETE, it shrinks.

                        David G. LeVine
                        Nashua, NH 03060
                      • keith gutshall
                        Hello David How about the pillow blocks from one of the reduction shafts? Mount them on the table and line them up for the shaft.You could get one of the cheap
                        Message 11 of 13 , May 9, 2007
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                          Hello David
                           How about the pillow blocks from one of the reduction shafts?
                           Mount them on the table and line them up for the shaft.You could get one of the cheap bronze bushing for the bottom end , if you do not like the idea for the wood? It could fit in the wood.
                           Keith

                          "David G. LeVine" <dlevine@...> wrote:

                          >What do you use to accurately machine the end parts?

                          You don't, that's the beauty of it. The one mounted on the block is
                          a hunk of greased wood if you want. The biggest issue if the
                          mounting -- which can also be a hunk of greased wood (they only need
                          to run a few hours total!) For axial loads, a couple of shaft collars.

                          >How do adjust the depth of the cut?

                          The gauge is a hunk of "U" shaped stock with an inside dimension
                          slightly (.050 or so) larger than 1/2 the bore plus 1/2 the shaft
                          diameter. The bit is held in place by a setscrew or just a bolt
                          <GRIN>. The gauge has a gap between two pieces of the "ear" on the
                          side which goes around the shaft big enough that the bit doesn't touch it.

                          The gauge is put over the shaft and bit with feeler gauges between
                          the bit and the gauge, push on the bit and snug the set screw.

                          Run a test cut. Not enough metal removal? Use less feeler stock and repeat.

                          --- top of gauge
                          |O shaft
                          | | bit
                          L--Shim stock goes here

                          - - Ear with gap
                          ||||
                          --- Ear with no gap
                          >How do you feed the cutter so that It will cut smoothly and not chatter?

                          Remember the XY table that is on the bed? If you get really silly, a
                          big "O" ring from the shaft could do it.

                          >How do you bore a 6" deep hole so that it will have the same dimension
                          >of each end?

                          Assuming a straight shaft and reasonable bearings, it can't do
                          otherwise. Besides, the bore is alerady there, the cuts need only be
                          as deep as the bearings need.

                          >I have an old book that shows several boring heads like this and they
                          >all are pretty complex devices. Boring steam cylinders was extremely
                          >common at one time.

                          Yep, and this is the simplified version <GRIN>.

                          >I still think that using epoxy putty to "bed" home cast bushings in a
                          >worn engine cylinder bore is a vaild"poor boy" solution. I really want
                          >a bunch of ideas about this since I need to have a new version of the
                          >"book" before the PM article comes out.

                          That is one approach. Epoxy filled with granite for bearing mounts
                          (see the CNCZONE threads on granite epoxy) is another good
                          choice. DO NOT USE CONCRETE, it shrinks.

                          David G. LeVine
                          Nashua, NH 03060




                          Deep Run Portage
                          Back Shop
                          " The Lizard Works"


                          Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
                          Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                        • David G. LeVine
                          ... Keith, Good call, I did not make the assumption that a pillow block was available, however if it is, it is a great choice. David G. LeVine Nashua, NH
                          Message 12 of 13 , May 9, 2007
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                            At 04:50 PM 5/9/2007, you wrote:

                            >Hello David
                            > How about the pillow blocks from one of the reduction shafts?
                            > Mount them on the table and line them up for the shaft.You could
                            > get one of the cheap bronze bushing for the bottom end , if you do
                            > not like the idea for the wood? It could fit in the wood.

                            Keith,

                            Good call, I did not make the assumption that a pillow block was
                            available, however if it is, it is a great choice.


                            David G. LeVine
                            Nashua, NH 03060
                          • drpshops
                            ... do ... Hello David Sometimes the simplest tooling /idea works the best. Keith
                            Message 13 of 13 , May 9, 2007
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                              --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "David G. LeVine" <dlevine@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > At 04:50 PM 5/9/2007, you wrote:
                              >
                              > >Hello David
                              > > How about the pillow blocks from one of the reduction shafts?
                              > > Mount them on the table and line them up for the shaft.You could
                              > > get one of the cheap bronze bushing for the bottom end , if you
                              do
                              > > not like the idea for the wood? It could fit in the wood.
                              >
                              > Keith,
                              >
                              > Good call, I did not make the assumption that a pillow block was
                              > available, however if it is, it is a great choice.
                              >
                              >
                              > David G. LeVine
                              > Nashua, NH 03060
                              >
                              Hello David
                              Sometimes the simplest tooling /idea works the best.
                              Keith
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