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Re: [multimachine] I need to pick your brains.

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  • jim kraai
    Pat, Obviously they don t understand the need, so this is a _marketing_ problem. Potential beneficiaries either aren t asking for it or aren t using the same
    Message 1 of 17 , Mar 1 10:24 AM
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      Pat,

      Obviously they don't understand the need, so this is a
      _marketing_ problem. Potential beneficiaries either aren't
      asking for it or aren't using the same terminology you are.

      Top-down--Imitate terminology: Each NGO either has a catalog of
      approved items available to their beneficiaries or has previous
      requests for such items. Find out what terminology is already
      being used and use that.

      Bottom-Up--Go directly to the beneficiaries: NGOs like to
      publicize their good deeds.
      1. Contact the beneficiaries directly and offer plans for
      "on-site constructible machine shop."
      2. Ask, "What's the best way to market the no/low cost machine
      tool directly to the NGOs?" If it's not being asked for by
      potential beneficiaries, the NGOs won't be aware the need.

      Bottom-Up--Go directly to the people on site: Find out who's
      doing--or going to be doing--the actual work in the field.
      Do #s 1 & 2 from above.

      Waaaay bottom-up: Get the word out to the young idealists
      who might someday be writing proposals. Get on peace corps
      email discussion lists or whatever public forum is carrying
      the conceptual traffic you want to get in on. Do #s 1 & 2
      from above.

      Waaaay bottom-up from another angle: Market the concept/
      plans directly to poor national or regional governments.
      How to market? Contact recipients asking for help "getting
      the plans translated into your language/dialect."

      Traditional: Announce a press conference offering the
      distribution of the plans. Maybe someone will show up with
      a TV camera and maybe you'll get 15 seconds of airtime.

      Note that you're selling a no-cost item. TANSTAAFL, man.
      "If it's initially free, there's got to be one h*ll of a
      catch." That's way outside the normal conceptual framework.
      So charge for it. Free documentation licenses allow you to
      print it, laminate it, spiral bind it, and recover your costs
      by selling it to them. Can you get it included in the basic
      "Stuff you need to know before you go" package distributed
      by NGOs?

      Or build the tools & sell 'em to the NGOs. ;) Include w/ the
      manual the real plans with a note saying "here are the plans
      for this device so you never have to directly buy another.
      Please copy and distribute plans widely."

      Also note that this class of tools is probably perceived as a
      secondary or maintenance item. Classically it goes like this:
      Lots of fanfare accompanies putting in a solar-powered well pump,
      but the report that it broke down permanently six months later
      for a lack of a simple brass bushing rarely makes the AP wire.

      I'll quit typing now.

      --jim

      Pat Delany wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > In the last several years I have emailed hundreds of organizations/
      > publications about the MM. I have gotten a real response from just two,
      > Makezine and Home Shop Machinist. 90% of our members have probably come
      > from one of these two publications.
      >
      > Many engineers (including 3 friends) are turned off by the whole concept
      > of a homemade machine tool. Accuracy is everything even if the product
      > is going to be used in areas with constantly blowing sand and dirt.
      > Romig mentioned that his machine turned out commercial work so we know
      > that his bed design works and my MM spindle has no runout after 3 years
      > of abuse. This lets us know that the machine definitely can do accurate
      > work. How much accuracy is really needed? I have some experience in the
      > oilpatch where everything runs in a mix of dirt and grease and pumps may
      > wallow out their bearings 1/4" and still work. A friend saw a "hit and
      > miss" engine that ran even though a pencil could fit between the piston
      > rings and cylinder wall. I know that I am not going to persuade many
      > engineers but I know that I am going to have to re-phrase things so that
      > they are not turned off instantly.
      >
      > The other group that I absolutely don't reach is the people that open
      > the public email for non governmental organizations (NGOS). I think that
      > the phrase "machine tools" causes an instant mental shutdown and deleted
      > email.
      >
      > What to do? I am thinking of the phrase "Metalworking tools for survival
      > and sustainability" but I really need your ideas.
      >
      > Pat
    • Pat Delany
      Many thanks Jim In a few days I hope I will be finished with the thread follower and toolpost grinder, marketing is my #1 project after that. The first thing I
      Message 2 of 17 , Mar 2 2:06 PM
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        Many thanks Jim

        In a few days I hope I will be finished with the
        thread follower and toolpost grinder, marketing is my
        #1 project after that. The first thing I am going to
        do is to learn how to "talk the talk" so that I can
        learn to communicate in NGO terms. I am going to take
        your suggestions very much to heart and follow them as
        best I can (limitations being old,poor and lame!)

        Pat


        --- jim kraai <jim@...> wrote:

        > Pat,
        >
        > Obviously they don't understand the need, so this is
        > a
        > _marketing_ problem. Potential beneficiaries either
        > aren't
        > asking for it or aren't using the same terminology
        > you are.
        >
        > Top-down--Imitate terminology: Each NGO either has
        > a catalog of
        > approved items available to their beneficiaries or
        > has previous
        > requests for such items. Find out what terminology
        > is already
        > being used and use that.
        >
        > Bottom-Up--Go directly to the beneficiaries: NGOs
        > like to
        > publicize their good deeds.
        > 1. Contact the beneficiaries directly and offer
        > plans for
        > "on-site constructible machine shop."
        > 2. Ask, "What's the best way to market the no/low
        > cost machine
        > tool directly to the NGOs?" If it's not being asked
        > for by
        > potential beneficiaries, the NGOs won't be aware the
        > need.
        >
        > Bottom-Up--Go directly to the people on site: Find
        > out who's
        > doing--or going to be doing--the actual work in the
        > field.
        > Do #s 1 & 2 from above.
        >
        > Waaaay bottom-up: Get the word out to the young
        > idealists
        > who might someday be writing proposals. Get on
        > peace corps
        > email discussion lists or whatever public forum is
        > carrying
        > the conceptual traffic you want to get in on. Do #s
        > 1 & 2
        > from above.
        >
        > Waaaay bottom-up from another angle: Market the
        > concept/
        > plans directly to poor national or regional
        > governments.
        > How to market? Contact recipients asking for help
        > "getting
        > the plans translated into your language/dialect."
        >
        > Traditional: Announce a press conference offering
        > the
        > distribution of the plans. Maybe someone will show
        > up with
        > a TV camera and maybe you'll get 15 seconds of
        > airtime.
        >
        > Note that you're selling a no-cost item. TANSTAAFL,
        > man.
        > "If it's initially free, there's got to be one h*ll
        > of a
        > catch." That's way outside the normal conceptual
        > framework.
        > So charge for it. Free documentation licenses allow
        > you to
        > print it, laminate it, spiral bind it, and recover
        > your costs
        > by selling it to them. Can you get it included in
        > the basic
        > "Stuff you need to know before you go" package
        > distributed
        > by NGOs?
        >
        > Or build the tools & sell 'em to the NGOs. ;)
        > Include w/ the
        > manual the real plans with a note saying "here are
        > the plans
        > for this device so you never have to directly buy
        > another.
        > Please copy and distribute plans widely."
        >
        > Also note that this class of tools is probably
        > perceived as a
        > secondary or maintenance item. Classically it goes
        > like this:
        > Lots of fanfare accompanies putting in a
        > solar-powered well pump,
        > but the report that it broke down permanently six
        > months later
        > for a lack of a simple brass bushing rarely makes
        > the AP wire.
        >
        > I'll quit typing now.
        >
        > --jim
        >
        > Pat Delany wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > In the last several years I have emailed hundreds
        > of organizations/
        > > publications about the MM. I have gotten a real
        > response from just two,
        > > Makezine and Home Shop Machinist. 90% of our
        > members have probably come
        > > from one of these two publications.
        > >
        > > Many engineers (including 3 friends) are turned
        > off by the whole concept
        > > of a homemade machine tool. Accuracy is
        > everything even if the product
        > > is going to be used in areas with constantly
        > blowing sand and dirt.
        > > Romig mentioned that his machine turned out
        > commercial work so we know
        > > that his bed design works and my MM spindle has
        > no runout after 3 years
        > > of abuse. This lets us know that the machine
        > definitely can do accurate
        > > work. How much accuracy is really needed? I have
        > some experience in the
        > > oilpatch where everything runs in a mix of dirt
        > and grease and pumps may
        > > wallow out their bearings 1/4" and still work. A
        > friend saw a "hit and
        > > miss" engine that ran even though a pencil could
        > fit between the piston
        > > rings and cylinder wall. I know that I am not
        > going to persuade many
        > > engineers but I know that I am going to have to
        > re-phrase things so that
        > > they are not turned off instantly.
        > >
        > > The other group that I absolutely don't reach is
        > the people that open
        > > the public email for non governmental
        > organizations (NGOS). I think that
        > > the phrase "machine tools" causes an instant
        > mental shutdown and deleted
        > > email.
        > >
        > > What to do? I am thinking of the phrase
        > "Metalworking tools for survival
        > > and sustainability" but I really need your ideas.
        > >
        > > Pat
        >




        ____________________________________________________________________________________
        Looking for earth-friendly autos?
        Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
        http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
      • a1g2r3i
        Pat For talk, check out both toastmasters and the Dale Carnegy course. not necessarily in that order. The books to the later (D C course) can probably be found
        Message 3 of 17 , Mar 2 6:42 PM
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          Pat

          For talk, check out both toastmasters and the Dale Carnegy course.
          not necessarily in that order. The books to the later (D C course)
          can probably be found in most libraries. An added benifit to these
          groups, for survivors, is the meeting of new people as attrition
          occures. These groups give people the courage to be able to talk in
          front of people and how to hone what they say so the message is
          palatable to the hearers ears.
          dennis mac
          --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Pat Delany <rigmatch@...> wrote:
          >
          > Many thanks Jim
          >
          > In a few days I hope I will be finished with the
          > thread follower and toolpost grinder, marketing is my
          > #1 project after that. The first thing I am going to
          > do is to learn how to "talk the talk" so that I can
          > learn to communicate in NGO terms. I am going to take
          > your suggestions very much to heart and follow them as
          > best I can (limitations being old,poor and lame!)
          >
          > Pat
          >
          >
          > --- jim kraai <jim@...> wrote:
          >
          > > Pat,
          > >
          > > Obviously they don't understand the need, so this is
          > > a
          > > _marketing_ problem. Potential beneficiaries either
          > > aren't
          > > asking for it or aren't using the same terminology
          > > you are.
          > >
          > > Top-down--Imitate terminology: Each NGO either has
          > > a catalog of
          > > approved items available to their beneficiaries or
          > > has previous
          > > requests for such items. Find out what terminology
          > > is already
          > > being used and use that.
          > >
          > > Bottom-Up--Go directly to the beneficiaries: NGOs
          > > like to
          > > publicize their good deeds.
          > > 1. Contact the beneficiaries directly and offer
          > > plans for
          > > "on-site constructible machine shop."
          > > 2. Ask, "What's the best way to market the no/low
          > > cost machine
          > > tool directly to the NGOs?" If it's not being asked
          > > for by
          > > potential beneficiaries, the NGOs won't be aware the
          > > need.
          > >
          > > Bottom-Up--Go directly to the people on site: Find
          > > out who's
          > > doing--or going to be doing--the actual work in the
          > > field.
          > > Do #s 1 & 2 from above.
          > >
          > > Waaaay bottom-up: Get the word out to the young
          > > idealists
          > > who might someday be writing proposals. Get on
          > > peace corps
          > > email discussion lists or whatever public forum is
          > > carrying
          > > the conceptual traffic you want to get in on. Do #s
          > > 1 & 2
          > > from above.
          > >
          > > Waaaay bottom-up from another angle: Market the
          > > concept/
          > > plans directly to poor national or regional
          > > governments.
          > > How to market? Contact recipients asking for help
          > > "getting
          > > the plans translated into your language/dialect."
          > >
          > > Traditional: Announce a press conference offering
          > > the
          > > distribution of the plans. Maybe someone will show
          > > up with
          > > a TV camera and maybe you'll get 15 seconds of
          > > airtime.
          > >
          > > Note that you're selling a no-cost item. TANSTAAFL,
          > > man.
          > > "If it's initially free, there's got to be one h*ll
          > > of a
          > > catch." That's way outside the normal conceptual
          > > framework.
          > > So charge for it. Free documentation licenses allow
          > > you to
          > > print it, laminate it, spiral bind it, and recover
          > > your costs
          > > by selling it to them. Can you get it included in
          > > the basic
          > > "Stuff you need to know before you go" package
          > > distributed
          > > by NGOs?
          > >
          > > Or build the tools & sell 'em to the NGOs. ;)
          > > Include w/ the
          > > manual the real plans with a note saying "here are
          > > the plans
          > > for this device so you never have to directly buy
          > > another.
          > > Please copy and distribute plans widely."
          > >
          > > Also note that this class of tools is probably
          > > perceived as a
          > > secondary or maintenance item. Classically it goes
          > > like this:
          > > Lots of fanfare accompanies putting in a
          > > solar-powered well pump,
          > > but the report that it broke down permanently six
          > > months later
          > > for a lack of a simple brass bushing rarely makes
          > > the AP wire.
          > >
          > > I'll quit typing now.
          > >
          > > --jim
          > >
          > > Pat Delany wrote:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > In the last several years I have emailed hundreds
          > > of organizations/
          > > > publications about the MM. I have gotten a real
          > > response from just two,
          > > > Makezine and Home Shop Machinist. 90% of our
          > > members have probably come
          > > > from one of these two publications.
          > > >
          > > > Many engineers (including 3 friends) are turned
          > > off by the whole concept
          > > > of a homemade machine tool. Accuracy is
          > > everything even if the product
          > > > is going to be used in areas with constantly
          > > blowing sand and dirt.
          > > > Romig mentioned that his machine turned out
          > > commercial work so we know
          > > > that his bed design works and my MM spindle has
          > > no runout after 3 years
          > > > of abuse. This lets us know that the machine
          > > definitely can do accurate
          > > > work. How much accuracy is really needed? I have
          > > some experience in the
          > > > oilpatch where everything runs in a mix of dirt
          > > and grease and pumps may
          > > > wallow out their bearings 1/4" and still work. A
          > > friend saw a "hit and
          > > > miss" engine that ran even though a pencil could
          > > fit between the piston
          > > > rings and cylinder wall. I know that I am not
          > > going to persuade many
          > > > engineers but I know that I am going to have to
          > > re-phrase things so that
          > > > they are not turned off instantly.
          > > >
          > > > The other group that I absolutely don't reach is
          > > the people that open
          > > > the public email for non governmental
          > > organizations (NGOS). I think that
          > > > the phrase "machine tools" causes an instant
          > > mental shutdown and deleted
          > > > email.
          > > >
          > > > What to do? I am thinking of the phrase
          > > "Metalworking tools for survival
          > > > and sustainability" but I really need your ideas.
          > > >
          > > > Pat
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          _____________________________________________________________________
          _______________
          > Looking for earth-friendly autos?
          > Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
          > http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
          >
        • Pat Delany
          Thanks Jim I took a Dale Carnagie course 40 years ago and you can see the results on this site, The first thing I learned there was the 3 Cs . Don t
          Message 4 of 17 , Mar 4 2:44 PM
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            Thanks Jim

            I took a Dale Carnagie course 40 years ago and you can see the results
            on this site, The first thing I learned there was the "3 Cs". Don't
            criticize, condem or complain. I make a very concious effort to never
            find fault with someone's idea and this idea seems to carry over to
            almost everyone else. Someone posted here that he belonged to hundreds
            of groups and this was one of just two groups where everybody seem to
            get along.

            I don't believe in much but one thing I do believe in is that genius
            is everywhere! No one has the right to shut off an idea from anyone.

            Much of this communication problem is due to me. Most of you know that
            I am 71 and was in bed most of last year because of two knee
            operations. I am finding it very hard to get my body to restart.

            Pat

            -- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "a1g2r3i" <a1g2r3i@...> wrote:
            >
            > Pat
            >
            > For talk, check out both toastmasters and the Dale Carnegy course.
            > not necessarily in that order. The books to the later (D C course)
            > can probably be found in most libraries. An added benifit to these
            > groups, for survivors, is the meeting of new people as attrition
            > occures. These groups give people the courage to be able to talk in
            > front of people and how to hone what they say so the message is
            > palatable to the hearers ears.
            > dennis mac
            > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Pat Delany <rigmatch@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Many thanks Jim
            > >
            > > In a few days I hope I will be finished with the
            > > thread follower and toolpost grinder, marketing is my
            > > #1 project after that. The first thing I am going to
            > > do is to learn how to "talk the talk" so that I can
            > > learn to communicate in NGO terms. I am going to take
            > > your suggestions very much to heart and follow them as
            > > best I can (limitations being old,poor and lame!)
            > >
            > > Pat
            > >
            > >
            > > --- jim kraai <jim@> wrote:
            > >
            > > > Pat,
            > > >
            > > > Obviously they don't understand the need, so this is
            > > > a
            > > > _marketing_ problem. Potential beneficiaries either
            > > > aren't
            > > > asking for it or aren't using the same terminology
            > > > you are.
            > > >
            > > > Top-down--Imitate terminology: Each NGO either has
            > > > a catalog of
            > > > approved items available to their beneficiaries or
            > > > has previous
            > > > requests for such items. Find out what terminology
            > > > is already
            > > > being used and use that.
            > > >
            > > > Bottom-Up--Go directly to the beneficiaries: NGOs
            > > > like to
            > > > publicize their good deeds.
            > > > 1. Contact the beneficiaries directly and offer
            > > > plans for
            > > > "on-site constructible machine shop."
            > > > 2. Ask, "What's the best way to market the no/low
            > > > cost machine
            > > > tool directly to the NGOs?" If it's not being asked
            > > > for by
            > > > potential beneficiaries, the NGOs won't be aware the
            > > > need.
            > > >
            > > > Bottom-Up--Go directly to the people on site: Find
            > > > out who's
            > > > doing--or going to be doing--the actual work in the
            > > > field.
            > > > Do #s 1 & 2 from above.
            > > >
            > > > Waaaay bottom-up: Get the word out to the young
            > > > idealists
            > > > who might someday be writing proposals. Get on
            > > > peace corps
            > > > email discussion lists or whatever public forum is
            > > > carrying
            > > > the conceptual traffic you want to get in on. Do #s
            > > > 1 & 2
            > > > from above.
            > > >
            > > > Waaaay bottom-up from another angle: Market the
            > > > concept/
            > > > plans directly to poor national or regional
            > > > governments.
            > > > How to market? Contact recipients asking for help
            > > > "getting
            > > > the plans translated into your language/dialect."
            > > >
            > > > Traditional: Announce a press conference offering
            > > > the
            > > > distribution of the plans. Maybe someone will show
            > > > up with
            > > > a TV camera and maybe you'll get 15 seconds of
            > > > airtime.
            > > >
            > > > Note that you're selling a no-cost item. TANSTAAFL,
            > > > man.
            > > > "If it's initially free, there's got to be one h*ll
            > > > of a
            > > > catch." That's way outside the normal conceptual
            > > > framework.
            > > > So charge for it. Free documentation licenses allow
            > > > you to
            > > > print it, laminate it, spiral bind it, and recover
            > > > your costs
            > > > by selling it to them. Can you get it included in
            > > > the basic
            > > > "Stuff you need to know before you go" package
            > > > distributed
            > > > by NGOs?
            > > >
            > > > Or build the tools & sell 'em to the NGOs. ;)
            > > > Include w/ the
            > > > manual the real plans with a note saying "here are
            > > > the plans
            > > > for this device so you never have to directly buy
            > > > another.
            > > > Please copy and distribute plans widely."
            > > >
            > > > Also note that this class of tools is probably
            > > > perceived as a
            > > > secondary or maintenance item. Classically it goes
            > > > like this:
            > > > Lots of fanfare accompanies putting in a
            > > > solar-powered well pump,
            > > > but the report that it broke down permanently six
            > > > months later
            > > > for a lack of a simple brass bushing rarely makes
            > > > the AP wire.
            > > >
            > > > I'll quit typing now.
            > > >
            > > > --jim
            > > >
            > > > Pat Delany wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > In the last several years I have emailed hundreds
            > > > of organizations/
            > > > > publications about the MM. I have gotten a real
            > > > response from just two,
            > > > > Makezine and Home Shop Machinist. 90% of our
            > > > members have probably come
            > > > > from one of these two publications.
            > > > >
            > > > > Many engineers (including 3 friends) are turned
            > > > off by the whole concept
            > > > > of a homemade machine tool. Accuracy is
            > > > everything even if the product
            > > > > is going to be used in areas with constantly
            > > > blowing sand and dirt.
            > > > > Romig mentioned that his machine turned out
            > > > commercial work so we know
            > > > > that his bed design works and my MM spindle has
            > > > no runout after 3 years
            > > > > of abuse. This lets us know that the machine
            > > > definitely can do accurate
            > > > > work. How much accuracy is really needed? I have
            > > > some experience in the
            > > > > oilpatch where everything runs in a mix of dirt
            > > > and grease and pumps may
            > > > > wallow out their bearings 1/4" and still work. A
            > > > friend saw a "hit and
            > > > > miss" engine that ran even though a pencil could
            > > > fit between the piston
            > > > > rings and cylinder wall. I know that I am not
            > > > going to persuade many
            > > > > engineers but I know that I am going to have to
            > > > re-phrase things so that
            > > > > they are not turned off instantly.
            > > > >
            > > > > The other group that I absolutely don't reach is
            > > > the people that open
            > > > > the public email for non governmental
            > > > organizations (NGOS). I think that
            > > > > the phrase "machine tools" causes an instant
            > > > mental shutdown and deleted
            > > > > email.
            > > > >
            > > > > What to do? I am thinking of the phrase
            > > > "Metalworking tools for survival
            > > > > and sustainability" but I really need your ideas.
            > > > >
            > > > > Pat
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > _____________________________________________________________________
            > _______________
            > > Looking for earth-friendly autos?
            > > Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
            > > http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
            > >
            >
          • Pat Delany
            Many thanks David Your Intermediate tool idea was just what I was looking for. And thank you for your kind words. I really needed them. Popular Mechanics was
            Message 5 of 17 , Mar 15 7:49 AM
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              Many thanks David

              Your "Intermediate tool" idea was just what I was looking for. And
              thank you for your kind words. I really needed them. Popular Mechanics
              was going to do an article on the MM but canceled when they realized
              it had already been on the Make magazine website. Learning this was a
              real downer!

              Pat

              --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "M David Walker" <talus66@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello Pat,
              > Keep up the good work. I have engineer friends who don't understand
              > either...except the one who was in the Peace Corps. I don't remember
              how I
              > found the site but at the time I was looking for info on homebuilt
              machine
              > tools and welding equipment. Intermediate technology machine tools
              might be
              > a good term to work in (or its equivalent) as I had trouble weeding
              out the
              > hits for "homemade" objects on "machine tools", and "home-built"
              welding
              > projects.
              > As to the accuracy is everything crowd..they may have a hard time
              > believing that hand ground telescope mirrors attain accuracies that
              should
              > embarrass machine tool users...when you touch the surface the heat
              from your
              > fingers leaves what looks like a mountain through the tester, and
              all of
              > this with incredibly simple homemade tools..including the test
              apparatus.
              > Unfortunately it's also very time/labor intensive, another reason
              developed
              > nation folks see these skills as obsolete and undesirable.
              > I came from a background that made it easy to see the potential,
              hence a
              > wood lathe from water pipe, a special grinding carriage to turn out
              > precision rounds, and then the metal lathe with precision round ways
              that
              > can now be used for scaling up.
              > I love the idea and the site, thank you.
              > M David Walker
              > talus66@...
              >
              >
              >
              > >From: "Pat Delany" <rigmatch@...>
              > >Reply-To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
              > >To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
              > >Subject: [multimachine] I need to pick your brains.
              > >Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 20:15:56 -0000
              > >
              > >
              > >In the last several years I have emailed hundreds of
              > >organizations/publications about the MM. I have gotten a real response
              > >from just two, Makezine and Home Shop Machinist. 90% of our members
              have
              > >probably come from one of these two publications.
              > >
              > >Many engineers (including 3 friends) are turned off by the whole
              concept
              > >of a homemade machine tool. Accuracy is everything even if the product
              > >is going to be used in areas with constantly blowing sand and dirt.
              > >Romig mentioned that his machine turned out commercial work so we know
              > >that his bed design works and my MM spindle has no runout after 3 years
              > >of abuse. This lets us know that the machine definitely can do accurate
              > >work. How much accuracy is really needed? I have some experience
              in the
              > >oilpatch where everything runs in a mix of dirt and grease and
              pumps may
              > >wallow out their bearings 1/4" and still work. A friend saw a "hit and
              > >miss" engine that ran even though a pencil could fit between the piston
              > >rings and cylinder wall. I know that I am not going to persuade many
              > >engineers but I know that I am going to have to re-phrase things so
              that
              > >they are not turned off instantly.
              > >
              > >The other group that I absolutely don't reach is the people that open
              > >the public email for non governmental organizations (NGOS). I think
              that
              > >the phrase "machine tools" causes an instant mental shutdown and
              deleted
              > >email.
              > >
              > >What to do? I am thinking of the phrase "Metalworking tools for
              survival
              > >and sustainability" but I really need your ideas.
              > >
              > >Pat
              > >
              > >
              >
              > _________________________________________________________________
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