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Magnetic chuck plans posted to files

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  • kwolson2002
    All - I have posted a 3 sheet article from the January 1925 issue of Popular Mechanics, detailing construction of a magnetic chuck. Holding force is estimated
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 15, 2014
      All -

      I have posted a 3 sheet article from the January 1925 issue of Popular Mechanics, detailing construction of a magnetic chuck.  Holding force is estimated in the article at 190 lbs. per pole for 2 1/2" wide contact, though this would vary with surface conditions, work material and how well rectified the 110 VDC power supply might be.  Pole pitch is 1".

      Ready substitutes for antiquated parts should be obvious, though finding an acceptable but inexpensive replacement for the babbitt coil potting may take some thinking.  Epoxy could be used, but might not conduct enough heat away from the coils (add aluminum powder?).  Salvage tire weights are cheap, but may need to be alloyed (with what - tin, bismuth bird shot?) to lower the melting point sufficiently to not ruin the magnet wire insulating enamel during potting.  If anyone has smart ideas or first-hand experiences on this, please share.  Use a switch with enclosed contacts, contrary to what is shown; 110 volts DC will not be fun to short with your body parts!

      I am currently tinkering with building a mag base for an old 1/2" chuck Dunlap (Craftsman) drill, but the plans as drawn here are intended for work-holding, so will require some modification.  I found this drill in a junk shop in Helena, MT for $20.  All it needed was to have the petrified grease cleaned out of the gear reduction and some fresh grease packed in.  I expect I'll add a hand feed screw, a la Cole or Armstrong ratchet drills, rather than a lever feed, at least for now, since 1" will be as deep a hole as I can foresee attempting at present.

      The main idea I am kicking around is to duplicate the functionality of an old Black & Decker drill stands (sizes 40, 60 & 80) for the Heavy Duty Drills (3/4" to 1 1/4" chucks, up to Morse 3 sockets), but with a mag base.  Decreasing the contact area of the chuck (3" x 5" would give about 1000 lbs clamping force) from the as-drawn plans will require altering the windings (more turns of finer wire), inserting resistance in series with the coils (an indicator lamp would be a nice touch), or both.  It would also be nice to add a mechanical "ooching" system between the magnet and column to permit fine adjustment once the mag base is locked to the work.  That way, one wouldn't need to be spot-on when the base is energized, which can be handy when wrangling the drill into awkward positions.  Otherwise, two voltage settings ("hold" and "drill") would allow for fine adjustment of position with a dead blow hammer prior to drilling.  In the interest of safety, the "drill" setting could be set up to automatically engage (and preferably latch) as soon as the drill trigger contact is made.

      It's currently a back-burner project, but simmering.

      Kevin
    • Pat Delany
      Kevin, This is great! We really, really, really missed you around here! Pat On Saturday, February 15, 2014 9:19 AM, kwayneolson@hotmail.com
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 15, 2014
        Kevin,
        This is great!
        We really, really, really missed you around here!

        Pat


        On Saturday, February 15, 2014 9:19 AM, "kwayneolson@..." <kwayneolson@...> wrote:
         
        All -

        I have posted a 3 sheet article from the January 1925 issue of Popular Mechanics, detailing construction of a magnetic chuck.  Holding force is estimated in the article at 190 lbs. per pole for 2 1/2" wide contact, though this would vary with surface conditions, work material and how well rectified the 110 VDC power supply might be.  Pole pitch is 1".

        Ready substitutes for antiquated parts should be obvious, though finding an acceptable but inexpensive replacement for the babbitt coil potting may take some thinking.  Epoxy could be used, but might not conduct enough heat away from the coils (add aluminum powder?).  Salvage tire weights are cheap, but may need to be alloyed (with what - tin, bismuth bird shot?) to lower the melting point sufficiently to not ruin the magnet wire insulating enamel during potting.  If anyone has smart ideas or first-hand experiences on this, please share.  Use a switch with enclosed contacts, contrary to what is shown; 110 volts DC will not be fun to short with your body parts!

        I am currently tinkering with building a mag base for an old 1/2" chuck Dunlap (Craftsman) drill, but the plans as drawn here are intended for work-holding, so will require some modification.  I found this drill in a junk shop in Helena, MT for $20.  All it needed was to have the petrified grease cleaned out of the gear reduction and some fresh grease packed in.  I expect I'll add a hand feed screw, a la Cole or Armstrong ratchet drills, rather than a lever feed, at least for now, since 1" will be as deep a hole as I can foresee attempting at present.

        The main idea I am kicking around is to duplicate the functionality of an old Black & Decker drill stands (sizes 40, 60 & 80) for the Heavy Duty Drills (3/4" to 1 1/4" chucks, up to Morse 3 sockets), but with a mag base.  Decreasing the contact area of the chuck (3" x 5" would give about 1000 lbs clamping force) from the as-drawn plans will require altering the windings (more turns of finer wire), inserting resistance in series with the coils (an indicator lamp would be a nice touch), or both.  It would also be nice to add a mechanical "ooching" system between the magnet and column to permit fine adjustment once the mag base is locked to the work.  That way, one wouldn't need to be spot-on when the base is energized, which can be handy when wrangling the drill into awkward positions.  Otherwise, two voltage settings ("hold" and "drill") would allow for fine adjustment of position with a dead blow hammer prior to drilling.  In the interest of safety, the "drill" setting could be set up to automatically engage (and preferably latch) as soon as the drill trigger contact is made.

        It's currently a back-burner project, but simmering.

        Kevin


      • jacot
        Waht the name of the file Cannot find it Jack 47’n 71’w All - I have posted a 3 sheet article from the January 1925 issue of Popular Mechanics, detailing
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 15, 2014

           

           

          Waht the name of the file

           

          Cannot find it

          Jack 47’n 71’w

           



          All -

          I have posted a 3 sheet article from the January 1925 issue of Popular Mechanics, detailing construction of a magnetic chuck. 
          Holding force is estimated in the article at 190 lbs. per pole for 2 1/2" wide contact, though this would vary with surface conditions, work material and how well rectified the 110 VDC power supply might be.  Pole pitch is 1".

          Ready substitutes for antiquated parts should be obvious, though finding an acceptable but inexpensive replacement for the babbitt coil potting may take some thinking.  Epoxy could be used, but might not conduct enough heat away from the coils (add aluminum powder?).  Salvage tire weights are cheap, but may need to be alloyed (with what - tin, bismuth bird shot?) to lower the melting point sufficiently to not ruin the magnet wire insulating enamel during potting.  If anyone has smart ideas or first-hand experiences on this, please share.  Use a switch with enclosed contacts, contrary to what is shown; 110 volts DC will not be fun to short with your body parts!

          I am currently tinkering with building a mag base for an old 1/2" chuck Dunlap (Craftsman) drill, but the plans as drawn here are intended for work-holding, so will require some modification.  I found this drill in a junk shop in Helena, MT for $20.  All it needed was to have the petrified grease cleaned out of the gear reduction and some fresh grease packed in.  I expect I'll add a hand feed screw, a la Cole or Armstrong ratchet drills, rather than a lever feed, at least for now, since 1" will be as deep a hole as I can foresee attempting at present.

          The main idea I am kicking around is to duplicate the functionality of an old Black & Decker drill stands (sizes 40, 60 & 80) for the Heavy Duty Drills (3/4" to 1 1/4" chucks, up to Morse 3 sockets), but with a mag base.  Decreasing the contact area of the chuck (3" x 5" would give about 1000 lbs clamping force) from the as-drawn plans will require altering the windings (more turns of finer wire), inserting resistance in series with the coils (an indicator lamp would be a nice touch), or both.  It would also be nice to add a mechanical "ooching" system between the magnet and column to permit fine adjustment once the mag base is locked to the work.  That way, one wouldn't need to be spot-on when the base is energized, which can be handy when wrangling the drill into awkward positions.  Otherwise, two voltage settings ("hold" and "drill") would allow for fine adjustment of position with a dead blow hammer prior to drilling.  In the interest of safety, the "drill" setting could be set up to automatically engage (and preferably latch) as soon as the drill trigger contact is made.

          It's currently a back-burner project, but simmering.

          Kevin


        • jacot
          Is it only a fixture for put the drill onplate or a real shuck for turning
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 16, 2014

             

             

            Is it only a fixture for  put the drill  onplate  or a real shuck  for turning

             

            <I still do not find the  file name

             

            jacquessavard@...

             



            All -

            I have posted a 3 sheet article from the January 1925 issue of Popular Mechanics, detailing construction of a magnetic chuck. 
            Holding force is estimated in the article at 190 lbs. per pole for 2 1/2" wide contact, though this would vary with surface conditions, work material and how well rectified the 110 VDC power supply might be.  Pole pitch is 1".

            Ready substitutes for antiquated parts should be obvious, though finding an acceptable but inexpensive replacement for the babbitt coil potting may take some thinking.  Epoxy could be used, but might not conduct enough heat away from the coils (add aluminum powder?).  Salvage tire weights are cheap, but may need to be alloyed (with what - tin, bismuth bird shot?) to lower the melting point sufficiently to not ruin the magnet wire insulating enamel during potting.  If anyone has smart ideas or first-hand experiences on this, please share.  Use a switch with enclosed contacts, contrary to what is shown; 110 volts DC will not be fun to short with your body parts!

            I am currently tinkering with building a mag base for an old 1/2" chuck Dunlap (Craftsman) drill, but the plans as drawn here are intended for work-holding, so will require some modification.  I found this drill in a junk shop in Helena, MT for $20.  All it needed was to have the petrified grease cleaned out of the gear reduction and some fresh grease packed in.  I expect I'll add a hand feed screw, a la Cole or Armstrong ratchet drills, rather than a lever feed, at least for now, since 1" will be as deep a hole as I can foresee attempting at present.

            The main idea I am kicking around is to duplicate the functionality of an old Black & Decker drill stands (sizes 40, 60 & 80) for the Heavy Duty Drills (3/4" to 1 1/4" chucks, up to Morse 3 sockets), but with a mag base.  Decreasing the contact area of the chuck (3" x 5" would give about 1000 lbs clamping force) from the as-drawn plans will require altering the windings (more turns of finer wire), inserting resistance in series with the coils (an indicator lamp would be a nice touch), or both.  It would also be nice to add a mechanical "ooching" system between the magnet and column to permit fine adjustment once the mag base is locked to the work.  That way, one wouldn't need to be spot-on when the base is energized, which can be handy when wrangling the drill into awkward positions.  Otherwise, two voltage settings ("hold" and "drill") would allow for fine adjustment of position with a dead blow hammer prior to drilling.  In the interest of safety, the "drill" setting could be set up to automatically engage (and preferably latch) as soon as the drill trigger contact is made.

            It's currently a back-burner project, but simmering.

            Kevin


          • jacot
            o google give me some answer I now see what you tel by magnetic chuck It is not exactly what I thing to replace a normal chuck on my wood turning
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 16, 2014

               

               

               


              o

              google  give me  some answer

               

              I now see what  you tel by magnetic chuck

               

              It is not exactly what  I thing  to replace a normal chuck on my  wood turning equipment for metal turning

               

              BUT

               

              I have some good  donut magnet from  magneton  and round and flat  magnet from  floppy disk

               

              Do you thing  it could be work

               

              The only thing  is  how you center any part on magnetic chuck

               

              Jack 47’MN 71’W



               

               

              Is it only a fixture for  put the drill  onplate  or a real shuck  for turning

               

              <I still do not find the  file name

               

              jacquessavard@...

               



              All -

              I have posted a 3 sheet article from the January 1925 issue of Popular Mechanics, detailing construction of a magnetic chuck. 
              Holding force is estimated in the article at 190 lbs. per pole for 2 1/2" wide contact, though this would vary with surface conditions, work material and how well rectified the 110 VDC power supply might be.  Pole pitch is 1".

              Ready substitutes for antiquated parts should be obvious, though finding an acceptable but inexpensive replacement for the babbitt coil potting may take some thinking.  Epoxy could be used, but might not conduct enough heat away from the coils (add aluminum powder?).  Salvage tire weights are cheap, but may need to be alloyed (with what - tin, bismuth bird shot?) to lower the melting point sufficiently to not ruin the magnet wire insulating enamel during potting.  If anyone has smart ideas or first-hand experiences on this, please share.  Use a switch with enclosed contacts, contrary to what is shown; 110 volts DC will not be fun to short with your body parts!

              I am currently tinkering with building a mag base for an old 1/2" chuck Dunlap (Craftsman) drill, but the plans as drawn here are intended for work-holding, so will require some modification.  I found this drill in a junk shop in Helena, MT for $20.  All it needed was to have the petrified grease cleaned out of the gear reduction and some fresh grease packed in.  I expect I'll add a hand feed screw, a la Cole or Armstrong ratchet drills, rather than a lever feed, at least for now, since 1" will be as deep a hole as I can foresee attempting at present.

              The main idea I am kicking around is to duplicate the functionality of an old Black & Decker drill stands (sizes 40, 60 & 80) for the Heavy Duty Drills (3/4" to 1 1/4" chucks, up to Morse 3 sockets), but with a mag base.  Decreasing the contact area of the chuck (3" x 5" would give about 1000 lbs clamping force) from the as-drawn plans will require altering the windings (more turns of finer wire), inserting resistance in series with the coils (an indicator lamp would be a nice touch), or both.  It would also be nice to add a mechanical "ooching" system between the magnet and column to permit fine adjustment once the mag base is locked to the work.  That way, one wouldn't need to be spot-on when the base is energized, which can be handy when wrangling the drill into awkward positions.  Otherwise, two voltage settings ("hold" and "drill") would allow for fine adjustment of position with a dead blow hammer prior to drilling.  In the interest of safety, the "drill" setting could be set up to automatically engage (and preferably latch) as soon as the drill trigger contact is made.

              It's currently a back-burner project, but simmering.

              Kevin

               




            • kwolson2002
              Jack - Sorry, the file name is MagChuck_Plans.pdf Yes, you are correct, it s not a lathe chuck. I should have been more clear about what it was (and what
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 18, 2014
                Jack -

                Sorry, the file name is "MagChuck_Plans.pdf"

                Yes, you are correct, it's not a lathe chuck.  I should have been more clear about what it was (and what the file name was) when I described it. I do think you could make a magnetic lathe faceplate by modifying these plans somewhat, though.  You'd need to make some sort of slip rings to permit the electricity to reach the (rotating) coil windings.

                I have also seen something about using the air conditioning compressor clutch from a car as a magnetic face plate, which might be quicker and easier.  It was mounted to a plate, and the part could be stuck to it by energizing the clutch coil.  I may have seen it here, or possibly somewhere else on the web.

                Interestingly, it is possible to make non-ferrous materials stick to a special sort of electromagnet, too.  I have a self-published paper instruction booklet (somewhere in my garage - it's a big garage!) which gives a recipe to build a demonstration version.  Two coils are used: one coil induces an electric field in the (electrically conductive) workpiece; the other coil attracts the magnetic field created by the induced current.  The exact details escape my brain, at the moment.  The downside is that the magnet must be purpose-made for the part, since the outside profile must be a very close match to that of the part surface.  The example used a piece of aluminum, but any conductive material should work.  You could think of it as the opposite of the classic Tesla coil experiment which repels an aluminum ring, shooting it up into the air.  If I can track down the brochure, I'll post the important details.  I had investigated using this concept in a sheet metal de-stacker for work, but the need to match the electromagnet to the dimension of the work (in this case, a full sheet of aluminum stock) was cost prohibitive.

                I have also seen plans for using permanent magnets, like the ones you have.  As I recall, there was a plate between the magnets and the work.  A lever allowed the distance between the magnets and the work to be increased to release the work from the chuck face.  That should work for your magnets.  Perhaps I can find the article (which I think was also in Popular Mechanics, but much more recently, perhaps the 1960s).  If so, I will post it.  In fact, I think it was built as a lathe chuck.

                Sorry to have not been more clear in my description of the file, Jack.

                Kevin
              • kwolson2002
                Pat - Well, they say if you miss me, keep shooting! Yes, it has been a busy few years,but it s good to feel as if I am getting caught up and life is at last
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 18, 2014
                  Pat -

                  Well, they say if you miss me, keep shooting!

                  Yes, it has been a busy few years,but it's good to feel as if I am getting caught up and life is at last returning to normal (if there is such a thing).

                  I have accumulated a few more hare-brained ideas along the way...

                  Kevin
                • Eggleston Lance
                  Not in the Files section lance ++++
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 18, 2014
                    Not in the Files section

                    lance
                    ++++


                    On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:41 PM, <kwayneolson@...> <kwayneolson@...> wrote:

                    Sorry, the file name is "MagChuck_Plans.pdf"

                  • jacot
                    Yes At the button After the big file section Thank it look like I thing it is like google tel me But I probably try to made one whit permanent magnet from
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 18, 2014

                       

                       

                      Yes

                       

                      At the button

                       

                      After the big file section

                       

                      Thank  it look like  I thing it is  like google tel me

                       

                      But

                      I probably try to made one whit permanent magnet from  magnetron 

                      I have some donut  about 3\8 section  3 inch dia  and  hole of 2.5 in center and some round about 1.25 inch

                       

                      Probably ok 

                       

                      Only  try to find a way to release  and if possible to center

                       

                      Jack 47’N 71’w

                       



                      Not in the Files section

                       

                      lance

                      ++++

                       

                       

                      On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:41 PM, <kwayneolson@...> <kwayneolson@...> wrote:



                      Sorry, the file name is "MagChuck_Plans.pdf"

                       




                    • Eggleston Lance
                      Found it, Thanks to all lance ++++
                      Message 10 of 13 , Feb 18, 2014
                        Found it,
                        Thanks to all

                        lance
                        ++++

                        On Feb 18, 2014, at 2:33 PM, jacot wrote:

                         

                         

                        Yes

                         

                        At the button

                         

                        After the big file section



                      • pokerbacken
                        just be careful, most modern (rather, later than mid-late 80 s) enamelled wire is the easy solder version that would short circuit if babbitt was poured over
                        Message 11 of 13 , Feb 19, 2014
                          just be careful, most modern (rather, later than mid-late 80's) enamelled wire is the "easy solder" version that would short circuit if babbitt was poured over it (enamel is mostly low melting point plastic), I would pour a base of babbit then a 20mm steel plate and on that stack the wound laminations(wound on T shaped bars with the ends of the T crossbar made from 1mm brass strips silver soldered in place
                        • kwolson2002
                          Jack - The October, 1982 issue of Popular Mechanics had n article on building a permanent magnet lathe chuck, though it doesn t have a release lever - the work
                          Message 12 of 13 , Feb 24, 2014
                            Jack -

                            The October, 1982 issue of Popular Mechanics had n article on building a permanent magnet lathe chuck, though it doesn't have a release lever - the work it just slipped sideways off of the magnets to release it.  This isn't as handy as having  proper release lever. I think you would also only be able to take very light cuts with very sharp tools using their design since the magnets are only rated for 40 lbs force.
                            Here's the link:

                            http://books.google.com/books?id=vNgDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA76&dq=%22popular+mechanics%22+%22magnetic+chuck%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=lkkLU5CQEKHJygGDy4CACA&ved=0CD4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22popular%20mechanics%22%20%22magnetic%20chuck%22&f=false

                            I recall one with a proper lever release.  I'll keep looking.

                            Kevin
                          • kwolson2002
                            Poker - Yes, I am doubtful that today s common magnet wire is up to having hot babbitt poured over it. I imagine the intent for the babbitt was two-fold: 1)
                            Message 13 of 13 , Mar 3, 2014
                              Poker -

                              Yes, I am doubtful that today's common magnet wire is up to having hot babbitt poured over it.

                              I imagine the intent for the babbitt was two-fold:
                              1) prevent the coil windings rubbing off the enamel due to energizing/de-energizing cycles, eventually short-circuiting the coil, and ending up in deep mischief
                              2) provide a conduction path to help remove waste heat

                              I am just a hack mechanical engineer from the northwoods, so I may be all wet on those suppositions.  If anyone has other thoughts, I'm all ears.

                              I think small transformer windings are still dunked in varnish, aren't they?  That might be a cheap way to deal with the first, but not the second, consideration.

                              The second criterion needs something which conducts heat well.  There are several low temperature alloys ("Cerro Bend" is a typical brand name), some of which melt well below the boiling point of water, others at quite a bit higher temperatures.  One or another might be well-suited on other accounts, but these alloys aren't cheap, so that dog won't likely hunt.  When used for their intended purposes (filling thin-walled tubing prior to bending to prevent wall collapse, potting small parts for machining, etc.) the alloy is re-used indefinitely, and the cost is amortized.  But, nothing in my garage amortizes, anyway - though I do get a bit of surface rust on stuff from time to time (I know, oxidize-amortize, not such a good joke).

                              There are special thermal epoxies available, used for bonding thermal probes to surfaces, but again, they aren't inexpensive.

                              What about the "Lab Metal" and similar metal-filled epoxy products?  Ever had any experience with those as a heat sink?  I wonder if JBWeld mixed with powdered aluminum (the stuff used to make metalic paint), would do the trick?  Vacuum de-gassing and/or vibration to remove air bubbles, perhaps?  Or metal-filled silicone?  Tub caulk is pretty cheap from big box stores...

                              Kevin
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