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Tool post grinders

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  • David G. LeVine
    In another group (shapers, etc.), there has been ongoing discussions of of using a toolpost grinder on a shaper ram for finishing. The main objection (which
    Message 1 of 10 , Jan 4, 2014
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      In another group (shapers, etc.), there has been ongoing discussions of
      of using a toolpost grinder on a shaper ram for finishing. The main
      objection (which applies to any machine without well designed way
      covers) is that the ways are quickly worn when the grit mixes with the
      oil to form a wonderfully efficient grinding slurry.

      This sounds like a death knell for use of a tool post grinder on a MM
      cross slide.

      Comments?

      Dave 8{)
      --

      "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the
      advice."

      Bill Cosby
    • Gordon Haag
      Grinding is a pretty common thing to do on machines with ways. In a few machining textbooks I have read, the use of newspaper over the ways is recommended.
      Message 2 of 10 , Jan 5, 2014
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        Grinding is a pretty common thing to do on machines with ways. In a few machining textbooks I have read, the use of newspaper over the ways is recommended. Otherwise, an accordion style covering could be used to collect the dust before it can touch the way oil.

        Gordon


        On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 11:08 PM, David G. LeVine <dlevine@...> wrote:
         

        In another group (shapers, etc.), there has been ongoing discussions of
        of using a toolpost grinder on a shaper ram for finishing. The main
        objection (which applies to any machine without well designed way
        covers) is that the ways are quickly worn when the grit mixes with the
        oil to form a wonderfully efficient grinding slurry.

        This sounds like a death knell for use of a tool post grinder on a MM
        cross slide.

        Comments?

        Dave 8{)
        --

        "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the
        advice."

        Bill Cosby


      • Ian Newman
        Hi Dave, I agree that it is very bad practice to use grinding tools on a machine that is not designed for the task. Although tool post grinders are available,
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 5, 2014
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          Hi Dave,

          I agree that it is very bad practice to use grinding tools on a machine that is not designed for the task.

          Although tool post grinders are available, I have been using mills and lathes since the late 60's and I have never seen one in use in a commercial environment.  They are for specialist tasks such as truing machine spindles in situ.

          I would take the view that grinding is a task that only properly trained and experience machinist would/should undertake and such a person would be quite capable of making their own grinding spindles and fixtures.

          Just out of interest, what reasons were given on the other group for wanting to produce a ground surface?  

          All the best,
          Ian



          On 5 Jan 2014, at 07:08, "David G. LeVine" <dlevine@...> wrote:

           

          In another group (shapers, etc.), there has been ongoing discussions of
          of using a toolpost grinder on a shaper ram for finishing. The main
          objection (which applies to any machine without well designed way
          covers) is that the ways are quickly worn when the grit mixes with the
          oil to form a wonderfully efficient grinding slurry.

          This sounds like a death knell for use of a tool post grinder on a MM
          cross slide.

          Comments?

          Dave 8{)
          --

          "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the
          advice."

          Bill Cosby

        • Pat Delany
           If I had a high quality machine tool, I would avoid grinding if it was possible. However, if I was a poor mechanic living in the developing world and if I
          Message 4 of 10 , Jan 5, 2014
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             If I had a high quality machine tool, I would avoid grinding if it was possible. However, if I was a poor mechanic living in the developing world and if I had to get a good finish on hard or gummy steel, I would grind the hell out of it! The MM cross slide is meant to be replaced as the builder's skill develops anyway.

            Pat


            On Sunday, January 5, 2014 7:24 AM, Ian Newman <ian_new@...> wrote:
             
            Hi Dave,

            I agree that it is very bad practice to use grinding tools on a machine that is not designed for the task.

            Although tool post grinders are available, I have been using mills and lathes since the late 60's and I have never seen one in use in a commercial environment.  They are for specialist tasks such as truing machine spindles in situ.

            I would take the view that grinding is a task that only properly trained and experience machinist would/should undertake and such a person would be quite capable of making their own grinding spindles and fixtures.

            Just out of interest, what reasons were given on the other group for wanting to produce a ground surface?  

            All the best,
            Ian



            On 5 Jan 2014, at 07:08, "David G. LeVine" <dlevine@...> wrote:

             
            In another group (shapers, etc.), there has been ongoing discussions of
            of using a toolpost grinder on a shaper ram for finishing. The main
            objection (which applies to any machine without well designed way
            covers) is that the ways are quickly worn when the grit mixes with the
            oil to form a wonderfully efficient grinding slurry.

            This sounds like a death knell for use of a tool post grinder on a MM
            cross slide.

            Comments?

            Dave 8{)
            --

            "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the
            advice."

            Bill Cosby


          • Ian Newman
            Hi Pat, if I was a poor mechanic living in the developing world and if I had to get a good finish on hard or gummy steel, I would grind the hell out of
            Message 5 of 10 , Jan 5, 2014
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              Hi Pat,

              <SNIP>
              if I was a poor mechanic living in the developing world and if I had to get a good finish on hard or gummy steel, I would grind the hell out of it!
              </SNIP>

              I think otherwise - if you were a poor
              mechanic living in the developing world, you would never risk losing your most valuable asset (your tools) for the sake of a single job.

              All the best,
              Ian


              From: Pat Delany <rigmatch@...>
              To: "multimachine@yahoogroups.com" <multimachine@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, 5 January 2014, 19:54
              Subject: Re: [multimachine] Tool post grinders

               
               If I had a high quality machine tool, I would avoid grinding if it was possible. However, if I was a poor mechanic living in the developing world and if I had to get a good finish on hard or gummy steel, I would grind the hell out of it! The MM cross slide is meant to be replaced as the builder's skill develops anyway.

              Pat


              On Sunday, January 5, 2014 7:24 AM, Ian Newman <ian_new@...> wrote:
               
              Hi Dave,

              I agree that it is very bad practice to use grinding tools on a machine that is not designed for the task.

              Although tool post grinders are available, I have been using mills and lathes since the late 60's and I have never seen one in use in a commercial environment.  They are for specialist tasks such as truing machine spindles in situ.

              I would take the view that grinding is a task that only properly trained and experience machinist would/should undertake and such a person would be quite capable of making their own grinding spindles and fixtures.

              Just out of interest, what reasons were given on the other group for wanting to produce a ground surface?  

              All the best,
              Ian



              On 5 Jan 2014, at 07:08, "David G. LeVine" <dlevine@...> wrote:

               
              In another group (shapers, etc.), there has been ongoing discussions of
              of using a toolpost grinder on a shaper ram for finishing. The main
              objection (which applies to any machine without well designed way
              covers) is that the ways are quickly worn when the grit mixes with the
              oil to form a wonderfully efficient grinding slurry.

              This sounds like a death knell for use of a tool post grinder on a MM
              cross slide.

              Comments?

              Dave 8{)
              --

              "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the
              advice."

              Bill Cosby




            • Pat Delany
              You have a good point.  On Sunday, January 5, 2014 1:54 PM, Pat Delany wrote:    If I had a high quality machine tool, I would avoid
              Message 6 of 10 , Jan 5, 2014
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                You have a good point. 


                On Sunday, January 5, 2014 1:54 PM, Pat Delany <rigmatch@...> wrote:
                 
                 If I had a high quality machine tool, I would avoid grinding if it was possible. However, if I was a poor mechanic living in the developing world and if I had to get a good finish on hard or gummy steel, I would grind the hell out of it! The MM cross slide is meant to be replaced as the builder's skill develops anyway.

                Pat


                On Sunday, January 5, 2014 7:24 AM, Ian Newman <ian_new@...> wrote:
                 
                Hi Dave,

                I agree that it is very bad practice to use grinding tools on a machine that is not designed for the task.

                Although tool post grinders are available, I have been using mills and lathes since the late 60's and I have never seen one in use in a commercial environment.  They are for specialist tasks such as truing machine spindles in situ.

                I would take the view that grinding is a task that only properly trained and experience machinist would/should undertake and such a person would be quite capable of making their own grinding spindles and fixtures.

                Just out of interest, what reasons were given on the other group for wanting to produce a ground surface?  

                All the best,
                Ian



                On 5 Jan 2014, at 07:08, "David G. LeVine" <dlevine@...> wrote:

                 
                In another group (shapers, etc.), there has been ongoing discussions of
                of using a toolpost grinder on a shaper ram for finishing. The main
                objection (which applies to any machine without well designed way
                covers) is that the ways are quickly worn when the grit mixes with the
                oil to form a wonderfully efficient grinding slurry.

                This sounds like a death knell for use of a tool post grinder on a MM
                cross slide.

                Comments?

                Dave 8{)
                --

                "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the
                advice."

                Bill Cosby




              • David G. LeVine
                ... In a nutshell, the cost of a surface grinder and the space needed vs. using an existing shaper. Dave 8{) -- A word to the wise ain t necessary - it s the
                Message 7 of 10 , Jan 6, 2014
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                  On 01/05/2014 08:24 AM, Ian Newman wrote:
                  > Just out of interest, what reasons were given on the other group for
                  > wanting to produce a ground surface?
                  >
                  > All the best,
                  > Ian

                  In a nutshell, the cost of a surface grinder and the space needed vs.
                  using an existing shaper.

                  Dave 8{)
                  --

                  "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the
                  advice."

                  Bill Cosby
                • David G. LeVine
                  ... However, it is the ways which will be damaged and need to be replaced. Dave 8{) -- A word to the wise ain t necessary - it s the stupid ones that need
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jan 6, 2014
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                    On 01/05/2014 02:54 PM, Pat Delany wrote:
                     If I had a high quality machine tool, I would avoid grinding if it was possible. However, if I was a poor mechanic living in the developing world and if I had to get a good finish on hard or gummy steel, I would grind the hell out of it! The MM cross slide is meant to be replaced as the builder's skill develops anyway.

                    Pat

                    However, it is the ways which will be damaged and need to be replaced.

                    Dave  8{)
                    --

                    "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice."

                    Bill Cosby
                  • Pat Delany
                    One good use for a toolpost grinder is on a shaft that has been built up by electric welding. Done this a bunch on a dozer I had many years ago. Pat On Monday,
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jan 6, 2014
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                      One good use for a toolpost grinder is on a shaft that has been built up by electric welding. Done this a bunch on a dozer I had many years ago.

                      Pat


                      On Monday, January 6, 2014 2:18 PM, David G. LeVine <dlevine@...> wrote:
                       
                      On 01/05/2014 02:54 PM, Pat Delany wrote:
                       If I had a high quality machine tool, I would avoid grinding if it was possible. However, if I was a poor mechanic living in the developing world and if I had to get a good finish on hard or gummy steel, I would grind the hell out of it! The MM cross slide is meant to be replaced as the builder's skill develops anyway.

                      Pat

                      However, it is the ways which will be damaged and need to be replaced.

                      Dave  8{)
                      --

                      "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice."

                      Bill Cosby


                    • Chris Tofu
                      The ways can be protected from grinding dust. As can the spindle/bearings. But you have to be thorough about it. Running or sprayed fluid can be used also to
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jan 6, 2014
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                        The ways can be protected from grinding dust. As can the spindle/bearings. But you have to be thorough about it. Running or sprayed fluid can be used also to divert the debris in a particular direction. Fluids are beneficial and perhaps even required in some cases when grinding I've been told.

                        You can always files and polish to obtain a desired finish. Or accuracy! Can can file and polish off until you're at that otherwise unobtainable tolerance. It would be awful nice to hear from some old hands on that subject.
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