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Zinc fever, a reminder.

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  • David G. LeVine
    ... While there is anecdotal evidence that milk helps, this appears to be most likely true before the onset of symptoms, and it MAY make the fume fever shorter
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 29, 2013
      On Sep 4, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Larry White wrote in Welding:

      I heard that drinking milk would counteract the galvanized metal fumes but have never had to test the theory.  I think the best advise is don't weld on it but if you do, make sure you are outside and upwind of the actual weld.  Just my 2 cents.

      I suggest reading OHSA, CDC, and AWS (American Welding Society) information on effects of welding galvanized steel:





      While there is anecdotal evidence that milk helps, this appears to be most likely true before the onset of symptoms, and it MAY make the fume fever shorter lived.  A better idea is to avoid welding galvanized metals.  Of course if you must, stand upwind of the welding site and have plenty of air flow!

      Dave  8{)
      --

      "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice."

      Bill Cosby
    • Chris Tofu
      I thought zinc and lead get stored somewhere in the body once ingested. Can t see how milk changes that.
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 29, 2013
        I thought zinc and lead get stored somewhere in the body once ingested. Can't see how milk changes that.


        ------------------------------
        On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 5:28 PM PDT David G. LeVine wrote:

        >On Sep 4, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Larry White wrote in Welding:
        >>
        >> I heard that drinking milk would counteract the galvanized metal fumes but have never had to test the theory. I think the best advise is don't weld on it but if you do, make sure you are outside and upwind of the actual weld. Just my 2 cents.
        >>
        >> I suggest reading OHSA, CDC, and AWS (American Welding Society) information on effects of welding galvanized steel:
        >>
        >> http://www.aws.org/technical/facts/FACT-25.pdf
        >>
        >> https://www.osha.gov/doc/outreachtraining/htmlfiles/weldhlth.html
        >>
        >> http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/81-123/pdfs/0675.pdf
        >
        >
        >While there is anecdotal evidence that milk helps, this appears to be most likely true before the onset of symptoms, and it MAY make the fume fever shorter lived. A better idea is to avoid welding galvanized metals. Of course if you must, stand upwind of the welding site and have /*plenty*/ of air flow!
        >
        >Dave 8{)
        >--
        >"A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice."
        >
        >Bill Cosby
      • Ian Newman
        Hi Chris I thought zinc and lead get stored somewhere in the body once ingested. Can t see how milk changes that. You are right - milk has no
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 30, 2013
          Hi Chris

          <SNIP>
          I thought zinc and lead get stored somewhere in the body once ingested. Can't see how milk changes that.
          </SNIP>

          You are right - milk has no effect on stored lead.  It does, however, reduce absorption.

          Lead and calcium are absorbed by the same receptors in the bones. So in a calcium poor, lead rich diet there is high lead absorption, but if there is high availability of calcium, less lead gets absorbed (not zero lead, but less lead).

          The same sort of situation exists between lead and iron in the blood.

          So to minimise lead absorption a diet rich in calcium, iron and vitamin C is beneficial.

          Zinc, Thiamin and vitamin E help reduce the toxic effects of lead, but if it's in your body, it is too late really.

          I'm Not a biologist or a nutritionist - the above info is from:

          Baldini, M.; Coni, E.; Mantovani, A.; Stacchini, A.; Zanasi, F.
          "Effect of Unbalanced Diets on Long Term Metabolism of a Toxicant 1. Lead in Rats: Preliminary Note.”
          Food Add and Contaminants 6 (1), 1989, pp. 117-124.

          Reichlmayr Lair, A.M.; Kirchgessner, M. Edited by Earl Friedman. "Lead." Biochemistry of the Essential Ultratrace Elements. New York, NY: Plenum Press, 1984, pp. 367-387. 

          Mahaffey, K. "Environmental Lead Toxicity: Nutrition as a Component of Intervention." Env Health Pros. 89, 1990, pp. 75-78. 

          Watson, W. S.; Morrison, J.; Bethel, M. I. F.; Baldwin, N. M.; Lyon, D.T. B.; Dobson, H.; Moore, M. R.; Hume, R. "Food Iron and Lead Absorption in Humans.” An J Clin Nutr. 44 (2), August 1986, pp. 248-256.

          All the best,
          Ian


          On 30 Sep 2013, at 06:11, Chris Tofu <rampaginggreenhulk@...> wrote:

           



          I thought zinc and lead get stored somewhere in the body once ingested. Can't see how milk changes that.

          ------------------------------
          On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 5:28 PM PDT David G. LeVine wrote:

          >On Sep 4, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Larry White wrote in Welding:
          >>
          >> I heard that drinking milk would counteract the galvanized metal fumes but have never had to test the theory. I think the best advise is don't weld on it but if you do, make sure you are outside and upwind of the actual weld. Just my 2 cents.
          >>
          >> I suggest reading OHSA, CDC, and AWS (American Welding Society) information on effects of welding galvanized steel:
          >>
          >> http://www.aws.org/technical/facts/FACT-25.pdf
          >>
          >> https://www.osha.gov/doc/outreachtraining/htmlfiles/weldhlth.html
          >>
          >> http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/81-123/pdfs/0675.pdf
          >
          >
          >While there is anecdotal evidence that milk helps, this appears to be most likely true before the onset of symptoms, and it MAY make the fume fever shorter lived. A better idea is to avoid welding galvanized metals. Of course if you must, stand upwind of the welding site and have /*plenty*/ of air flow!
          >
          >Dave 8{)
          >--
          >"A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice."
          >
          >Bill Cosby

        • Chris Tofu
          I just think it s best to avoid whenever and however possible the absorption of these metals into the body. Don t sand or weld galvanized metals w/o taking
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 30, 2013
            I just think it's best to avoid whenever and however possible the absorption of these metals into the body. Don't sand or weld galvanized metals w/o taking ample steps to avoid problems.
            The welder at the last job I was at was going blind. Not sure eactly why. But I think I know.


            ------------------------------
            On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 12:25 PM PDT Ian Newman wrote:

            >Hi Chris
            >
            ><SNIP>
            >I thought zinc and lead get stored somewhere in the body once ingested. Can't see how milk changes that.
            >
            ></SNIP>
            >
            >You are right - milk has no effect on stored lead. It does, however, reduce absorption.
            >
            >Lead and calcium are absorbed by the same receptors in the bones. So in a calcium poor, lead rich diet there is high lead absorption, but if there is high availability of calcium, less lead gets absorbed (not zero lead, but less lead).
            >
            >The same sort of situation exists between lead and iron in the blood.
            >
            >So to minimise lead absorption a diet rich in calcium, iron and vitamin C is beneficial.
            >
            >Zinc, Thiamin and vitamin E help reduce the toxic effects of lead, but if it's in your body, it is too late really.
            >
            >I'm Not a biologist or a nutritionist - the above info is from:
            >Baldini, M.; Coni, E.; Mantovani, A.; Stacchini, A.; Zanasi, F.
            >"Effect of Unbalanced Diets on Long Term Metabolism of a Toxicant 1. Lead in Rats: Preliminary Note.” Food Add and Contaminants 6 (1), 1989, pp. 117-124.
            >
            >Reichlmayr Lair, A.M.; Kirchgessner, M. Edited by Earl Friedman. "Lead." Biochemistry of the Essential Ultratrace Elements. New York, NY: Plenum Press, 1984, pp. 367-387.
            >
            >Mahaffey, K. "Environmental Lead Toxicity: Nutrition as a Component of Intervention." Env Health Pros. 89, 1990, pp. 75-78.
            >
            >Watson, W. S.; Morrison, J.; Bethel, M. I. F.; Baldwin, N. M.; Lyon, D.T. B.; Dobson, H.; Moore, M. R.; Hume, R. "Food Iron and Lead Absorption in Humans.” An J Clin Nutr. 44 (2), August 1986, pp. 248-256.
            >
            >All the best,
            >Ian
            >
            >
            >On 30 Sep 2013, at 06:11, Chris Tofu <rampaginggreenhulk@...> wrote:
            >
            >>
            >>
            >> I thought zinc and lead get stored somewhere in the body once ingested. Can't see how milk changes that.
            >>
            >> ------------------------------
            >> On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 5:28 PM PDT David G. LeVine wrote:
            >>
            >> >On Sep 4, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Larry White wrote in Welding:
            >> >
            >> > I heard that drinking milk would counteract the galvanized metal fumes but have never had to test the theory. I think the best advise is don't weld on it but if you do, make sure you are outside and upwind of the actual weld. Just my 2 cents.
            >> >
            >> > I suggest reading OHSA, CDC, and AWS (American Welding Society) information on effects of welding galvanized steel:
            >> >
            >> > http://www.aws.org/technical/facts/FACT-25.pdf
            >> >
            >> > https://www.osha.gov/doc/outreachtraining/htmlfiles/weldhlth.html
            >> >
            >> > http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/81-123/pdfs/0675.pdf
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >While there is anecdotal evidence that milk helps, this appears to be most likely true before the onset of symptoms, and it MAY make the fume fever shorter lived. A better idea is to avoid welding galvanized metals. Of course if you must, stand upwind of the welding site and have /*plenty*/ of air flow!
            >> >
            >> >Dave 8{)
            >> >--
            >> >"A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice."
            >> >
            >> >Bill Cosby
            >>
            >>
          • tsleber3@netzero.net
            Heavy metals get stored in the brain. My granddad welded galvanized pipe for windmill towers. He died of a stroke at 45 years old. ybiJ Ted Leber ... From:
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 30, 2013

              Heavy metals get stored in the brain.  My granddad welded galvanized pipe for windmill towers.  He died of a stroke at 45 years old.

              ybiJ

              Ted Leber



              ---------- Original Message ----------
              From: Chris Tofu <rampaginggreenhulk@...>
              To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [multimachine] Zinc fever, a reminder.
              Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 12:48:02 -0700 (PDT)

               



              I just think it's best to avoid whenever and however possible the absorption of these metals into the body. Don't sand or weld galvanized metals w/o taking ample steps to avoid problems.
              The welder at the last job I was at was going blind. Not sure eactly why. But I think I know.

              ------------------------------

              On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 12:25 PM PDT Ian Newman wrote:

              >Hi Chris
              >
              ><SNIP>
              >I thought zinc and lead get stored somewhere in the body once ingested. Can't see how milk changes that.
              >
              ></SNIP>
              >
              >You are right - milk has no effect on stored lead. It does, however, reduce absorption.
              >
              >Lead and calcium are absorbed by the same receptors in the bones. So in a calcium poor, lead rich diet there is high lead absorption, but if there is high availability of calcium, less lead gets absorbed (not zero lead, but less lead).
              >
              >The same sort of situation exists between lead and iron in the blood.
              >
              >So to minimise lead absorption a diet rich in calcium, iron and vitamin C is beneficial.
              >
              >Zinc, Thiamin and vitamin E help reduce the toxic effects of lead, but if it's in your body, it is too late really.
              >
              >I'm Not a biologist or a nutritionist - the above info is from:
              >Baldini, M.; Coni, E.; Mantovani, A.; Stacchini, A.; Zanasi, F.
              >"Effect of Unbalanced Diets on Long Term Metabolism of a Toxicant 1. Lead in Rats: Preliminary Note.� Food Add and Contaminants 6 (1), 1989, pp. 117-124.
              >
              >Reichlmayr Lair, A.M.; Kirchgessner, M. Edited by Earl Friedman. "Lead." Biochemistry of the Essential Ultratrace Elements. New York, NY: Plenum Press, 1984, pp. 367-387.
              >
              >Mahaffey, K. "Environmental Lead Toxicity: Nutrition as a Component of Intervention." Env Health Pros. 89, 1990, pp. 75-78.
              >
              >Watson, W. S.; Morrison, J.; Bethel, M. I. F.; Baldwin, N. M.; Lyon, D.T. B.; Dobson, H.; Moore, M. R.; Hume, R. "Food Iron and Lead Absorption in Humans.� An J Clin Nutr. 44 (2), August 1986, pp. 248-256.
              >
              >All the best,
              >Ian
              >
              >
              >On 30 Sep 2013, at 06:11, Chris Tofu <rampaginggreenhulk@...> wrote:
              >
              >>
              >>
              >> I thought zinc and lead get stored somewhere in the body once ingested. Can't see how milk changes that.
              >>
              >> ------------------------------
              >> On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 5:28 PM PDT David G. LeVine wrote:
              >>
              >> >On Sep 4, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Larry White wrote in Welding:
              >> >
              >> > I heard that drinking milk would counteract the galvanized metal fumes but have never had to test the theory. I think the best advise is don't weld on it but if you do, make sure you are outside and upwind of the actual weld. Just my 2 cents.
              >> >
              >> > I suggest reading OHSA, CDC, and AWS (American Welding Society) information on effects of welding galvanized steel:
              >> >
              >> > http://www.aws.org/technical/facts/FACT-25.pdf
              >> >
              >> > https://www.osha.gov/doc/outreachtraining/htmlfiles/weldhlth.html
              >> >
              >> > http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/81-123/pdfs/0675.pdf
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >While there is anecdotal evidence that milk helps, this appears to be most likely true before the onset of symptoms, and it MAY make the fume fever shorter lived. A better idea is to avoid welding galvanized metals. Of course if you must, stand upwind of the welding site and have /*plenty*/ of air flow!
              >> >
              >> >Dave 8{)
              >> >--
              >> >"A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice."
              >> >
              >> >Bill Cosby
              >>
              >>



              ____________________________________________________________
              Do THIS before eating carbs (every time)
              1 EASY tip to increase fat-burning, lower blood sugar & decrease fat storage
              info.fixyourbloodsugar.com
            • John Legowik
              The Zinc is mainly a problem with lung injury. The Zinc fumes are toxic to the lungs. There may be both cadmium and lead in those ‘galvanized’ pipes.
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 30, 2013

                The Zinc is mainly a problem with lung injury.  The Zinc fumes are toxic to the lungs.   There may be both cadmium and lead in those ‘galvanized’ pipes.  Of course the lead is absorbed and is toxic to the brain and nerves.  As far as a stroke.  I suspect he may have been a smoker with high blood pressure (diabetic too?) as the metals listed really don’t cause stroke.  Of course lead can be toxic to the heart and lead to a primary heard disease (cardiomyopathy).   Alcohol is also a real killer as far as its causing high blood pressure.  Diabetes and Alcohol are by far the things that can contribute to stroke…assuming he didn’t have an aneurysm (bubble in one of the vessels of the brain) that can burst… also aggravated by high blood pressure, cigarettes, alcohol and diabetes.  There may be a link between Zinc and pancreatic disease and diabetes too.  Usually this is caused by toxic amounts of something like Zinc chloride which is poisonous when taken orally.  JTL MD

                 

                From: multimachine@yahoogroups.com [mailto:multimachine@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tsleber3@...
                Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 5:57 PM
                To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [multimachine] Zinc fever, a reminder.

                 

                 

                Heavy metals get stored in the brain.  My granddad welded galvanized pipe for windmill towers.  He died of a stroke at 45 years old.

                ybiJ

                Ted Leber



                ---------- Original Message ----------
                From: Chris Tofu <rampaginggreenhulk@...>
                To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [multimachine] Zinc fever, a reminder.
                Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 12:48:02 -0700 (PDT)

                 



                I just think it's best to avoid whenever and however possible the absorption of these metals into the body. Don't sand or weld galvanized metals w/o taking ample steps to avoid problems.
                The welder at the last job I was at was going blind. Not sure eactly why. But I think I know.

                ------------------------------

                On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 12:25 PM PDT Ian Newman wrote:

                >Hi Chris
                >
                ><SNIP>
                >I thought zinc and lead get stored somewhere in the body once ingested. Can't see how milk changes that.
                >
                ></SNIP>
                >
                >You are right - milk has no effect on stored lead. It does, however, reduce absorption.
                >
                >Lead and calcium are absorbed by the same receptors in the bones. So in a calcium poor, lead rich diet there is high lead absorption, but if there is high availability of calcium, less lead gets absorbed (not zero lead, but less lead).
                >
                >The same sort of situation exists between lead and iron in the blood.
                >
                >So to minimise lead absorption a diet rich in calcium, iron and vitamin C is beneficial.
                >
                >Zinc, Thiamin and vitamin E help reduce the toxic effects of lead, but if it's in your body, it is too late really.
                >
                >I'm Not a biologist or a nutritionist - the above info is from:
                >Baldini, M.; Coni, E.; Mantovani, A.; Stacchini, A.; Zanasi, F.
                >"Effect of Unbalanced Diets on Long Term Metabolism of a Toxicant 1. Lead in Rats: Preliminary Note.” Food Add and Contaminants 6 (1), 1989, pp. 117-124.
                >
                >Reichlmayr Lair, A.M.; Kirchgessner, M. Edited by Earl Friedman. "Lead." Biochemistry of the Essential Ultratrace Elements. New York, NY: Plenum Press, 1984, pp. 367-387.
                >
                >Mahaffey, K. "Environmental Lead Toxicity: Nutrition as a Component of Intervention." Env Health Pros. 89, 1990, pp. 75-78.
                >
                >Watson, W. S.; Morrison, J.; Bethel, M. I. F.; Baldwin, N. M.; Lyon, D.T. B.; Dobson, H.; Moore, M. R.; Hume, R. "Food Iron and Lead Absorption in Humans.” An J Clin Nutr. 44 (2), August 1986, pp. 248-256.
                >
                >All the best,
                >Ian
                >
                >
                >On 30 Sep 2013, at 06:11, Chris Tofu <rampaginggreenhulk@...> wrote:
                >
                >>
                >>
                >> I thought zinc and lead get stored somewhere in the body once ingested. Can't see how milk changes that.
                >>
                >> ------------------------------
                >> On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 5:28 PM PDT David G. LeVine wrote:
                >>
                >> >On Sep 4, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Larry White wrote in Welding:
                >> >
                >> > I heard that drinking milk would counteract the galvanized metal fumes but have never had to test the theory. I think the best advise is don't weld on it but if you do, make sure you are outside and upwind of the actual weld. Just my 2 cents.
                >> >
                >> > I suggest reading OHSA, CDC, and AWS (American Welding Society) information on effects of welding galvanized steel:
                >> >
                >> > http://www.aws.org/technical/facts/FACT-25.pdf
                >> >
                >> > https://www.osha.gov/doc/outreachtraining/htmlfiles/weldhlth.html
                >> >
                >> > http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/81-123/pdfs/0675.pdf
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >While there is anecdotal evidence that milk helps, this appears to be most likely true before the onset of symptoms, and it MAY make the fume fever shorter lived. A better idea is to avoid welding galvanized metals. Of course if you must, stand upwind of the welding site and have /*plenty*/ of air flow!
                >> >
                >> >Dave 8{)
                >> >--
                >> >"A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice."
                >> >
                >> >Bill Cosby
                >>
                >>



                ____________________________________________________________
                Do THIS before eating carbs (every time)
                1 EASY tip to increase fat-burning, lower blood sugar decrease fat storage
                info.fixyourbloodsugar.com

              • David G. LeVine
                ... I don t know, perhaps the calcium is preferred by the body to zinc and the zinc is excreted. Dave 8{) -- A word to the wise ain t necessary - it s the
                Message 7 of 8 , Sep 30, 2013
                  On 09/30/2013 01:11 AM, Chris Tofu wrote:
                  > I thought zinc and lead get stored somewhere in the body once ingested. Can't see how milk changes that.

                  I don't know, perhaps the calcium is preferred by the body to zinc and
                  the zinc is excreted.

                  Dave 8{)

                  --

                  "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the
                  advice."

                  Bill Cosby
                • Peter K. Campbell
                  There are ways of getting heavy metals out of the body; even Western Medicine admits this - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelation_therapy Western Medicine
                  Message 8 of 8 , Oct 6, 2013
                    There are ways of getting heavy metals out of the body; even Western Medicine admits this - see
                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelation_therapy
                    Western Medicine does not admit that there are easier ways of getting it out, and the FDA prosecutes anyone who suggests otherwise, so I'm not going to suggest anyone hear do their own research into the possibilities of using something like
                      http://alternativehealth.com.au/Product/heavy_metal_detox_kit.htm
                    or other means of getting stuff out, like the mercury they've put in lots of vaccines.  No sirree bob.

                    One thing you do have to watch out for with any form of healing that cleans a lot of stuff out of the body, however, which would include heavy metals, is how quickly you do it - it is possible for you to have something that would be otherwise beneficial (say, purely hypothetically, something like high-dosage IV sodium ascorbate that boosted your immune system to the point it killed off heaps of cancer cells, or took MMS to get rid of malaria) that resulted in a large amount of toxins entering your bloodstream & sweat, to the point where your body couldn't handle them quickly enough, resulting in you getting even sicker or possibly in extreme cases dying ("the treatment was a success but we lost the patient").  See
                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarisch-Herxheimer_reaction
                    So, if you (under the watchful eye of your AMA approved doctor, of course) undergo any form of "cleansing", make sure you take it very slowly, especially to begin with, and especially if you are ill already, and if you start getting really ill inform your AMA approved doctor & suggest you need to cut back on the dosage.

                    Peter
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