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Failure?

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  • Pat
    I cannot figure out a elegant, home shop way of making a headstock that will be able to turn 90 degrees. Will probably have to revert to a concrete lathe that
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 10, 2013
      I cannot figure out a elegant, home shop way of making a headstock that will be able to turn 90 degrees.

      Will probably have to revert to a concrete lathe that has a heavy duty cog belt drive for a powered aux. spindle that is mounted on the cross slide. The long cogbelt should be flexible enough to allow the aux spindle to move in almost any angle. The cogbelt advantage is being able to transfer more hp, be less bulky and not use a huge amount of air while doing the most common drilling or milling jobs.

      When work needs to be done on the side of the workpiece then the aux spindle could be moved to the side and then powered by an electric or air drill motor or grinder

      A hybrid setup like this is not an elegant solution but could make the MAZAK workpiece possible practical (maybe even in steel).

      What you think?

      pat
    • Dennis Shelgren
      How about driving the headstock using an automotive differential, power it from the bottom and now the axis of rotation is aligned with the power input?
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 10, 2013
        How about driving the headstock using an automotive differential, power it from the bottom and now the axis' of rotation is aligned with the power input?
      • keith gutshall
        Hi Pat  Will you tell me why you need to turn the headstock?  I am missing something for the reasoning.    Keith Deep Run Portage Back Shop The Lizard
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 10, 2013
          Hi Pat
           Will you tell me why you need to turn the headstock?
           I am missing something for the reasoning.
           
           Keith
           
          Deep Run Portage
          Back Shop
          " The Lizard Works"
          From: Pat <rigmatch@...>
          To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 12:31 PM
          Subject: [multimachine] Failure?
           
          I cannot figure out a elegant, home shop way of making a headstock that will be able to turn 90 degrees.

          Will probably have to revert to a concrete lathe that has a heavy duty cog belt drive for a powered aux. spindle that is mounted on the cross slide. The long cogbelt should be flexible enough to allow the aux spindle to move in almost any angle. The cogbelt advantage is being able to transfer more hp, be less bulky and not use a huge amount of air while doing the most common drilling or milling jobs.

          When work needs to be done on the side of the workpiece then the aux spindle could be moved to the side and then powered by an electric or air drill motor or grinder

          A hybrid setup like this is not an elegant solution but could make the MAZAK workpiece possible practical (maybe even in steel).

          What you think?

          pat

        • Dennis
          I think this is in regards to a multi axis machine that is manual but can do the work of a mazak. The idea being that the work is never disconnected from the
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 10, 2013
            I think this is in regards to a multi axis machine that is manual but can do the work of a mazak. The idea being that the work is never disconnected from the headstock until all the machining is done. The aux spindle is basically a milling machine that rides on the lathe.
            It's just another method to multi-axis machining, this way it avoids an articulated framework above the machine. Conceivably it can also be done with a milling machine with an all axis table as well.
            Just my two cents.

            --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, keith gutshall <drpshops@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Pat
            >  Will you tell me why you need to turn the headstock?
            >  I am missing something for the reasoning.
            >  
            >  Keith
            >
            > Deep Run Portage
            > Back Shop
            > " The Lizard Works"
            >
            > From: Pat <rigmatch@...>
            > To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 12:31 PM
            > Subject: [multimachine] Failure?
            >
            >  
            > I cannot figure out a elegant, home shop way of making a headstock that will be able to turn 90 degrees.
            >
            > Will probably have to revert to a concrete lathe that has a heavy duty cog belt drive for a powered aux. spindle that is mounted on the cross slide. The long cogbelt should be flexible enough to allow the aux spindle to move in almost any angle. The cogbelt advantage is being able to transfer more hp, be less bulky and not use a huge amount of air while doing the most common drilling or milling jobs.
            >
            > When work needs to be done on the side of the workpiece then the aux spindle could be moved to the side and then powered by an electric or air drill motor or grinder
            >
            > A hybrid setup like this is not an elegant solution but could make the MAZAK workpiece possible practical (maybe even in steel).
            >
            > What you think?
            >
            > pat
            >
          • David G. LeVine
            ... Pat, I don t think a manual Mazak machine will work. The 3D cutouts at an angle require coordinated manipulation on more than 3 axes, most of us only have
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 10, 2013
              On 09/10/2013 01:31 PM, Pat wrote:
              > A hybrid setup like this is not an elegant solution but could make the MAZAK workpiece possible practical (maybe even in steel).
              >
              > What you think?
              >
              > pat

              Pat,

              I don't think a manual Mazak machine will work. The 3D cutouts at an
              angle require coordinated manipulation on more than 3 axes, most of us
              only have two hands.

              Dave 8{(
              --

              "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the
              advice."

              Bill Cosby
            • David G. LeVine
              ... You would need a solid spool to do that, but running directly from a ring and pinion is possible, however getting the hypoid gear lube to stay where it is
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 10, 2013
                On 09/10/2013 02:13 PM, Dennis Shelgren wrote:

                How about driving the headstock using an automotive differential, power it from the bottom and now the axis' of rotation is aligned with the power input?

                You would need a solid spool to do that, but running directly from a ring and pinion is possible, however getting the hypoid gear lube to stay where it is needed is non-trivial.  Run the ring and pinion dry and under load and you will wear them out in 2 hours of operation unless they burn up.

                Dave  8{)

                --

                "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice."

                Bill Cosby
              • twofouroh
                Locking the diff is as easy as welding the spider gears. Why would you drive it snout down though, when you could just rotate it around the axles to the
                Message 7 of 8 , Sep 10, 2013
                  Locking the diff is as easy as welding the spider gears.  Why would you drive it snout down though, when you could just rotate it around the axles to the correct orientation? It will leak oil everywhere that way.  Whatever way it is oriented, just make sure the oil comes up high enough to cover the inner edge of the ring gear, it will pick up as it rotates. If it's snout down, you better put a dipstick on it, and maybe a hose on the vent too depending on where the vent is and how high you fill it. . .

                  Scott B



                  On 9/10/2013 10:59 PM, David G. LeVine wrote:
                   

                  On 09/10/2013 02:13 PM, Dennis Shelgren wrote:

                  How about driving the headstock using an automotive differential, power it from the bottom and now the axis' of rotation is aligned with the power input?

                  You would need a solid spool to do that, but running directly from a ring and pinion is possible, however getting the hypoid gear lube to stay where it is needed is non-trivial.  Run the ring and pinion dry and under load and you will wear them out in 2 hours of operation unless they burn up.

                  Dave  8{)

                  --

                  "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice."

                  Bill Cosby

              • Dennis
                Excellent point about the lubrication. Of course it would have to be solved in some fashion. For smaller machines the axle driven scooters could be a source of
                Message 8 of 8 , Sep 10, 2013
                  Excellent point about the lubrication. Of course it would have to be solved in some fashion. For smaller machines the axle driven scooters could be a source of a similar gearset.
                  I was thinking of the diff based windmills when I made the suggestion. I was thinking of driving it from the driveshaft end as that makes it possible to run a hollow shaft in place of the axles. Otherwise some sort of arrangement to access the pinion could be necessary if one wanted to use collets. But I just remembered that some of the new lathes use a front locking system that does not go through the headstock.

                  It occured to me that it probably wouldn't be practical to make a Mazak type machine as a first build.

                  Great ideas everyone. Now I'm researching all sorts of oddball stuff.

                  --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, bhu678@... wrote:
                  >
                  > Locking the diff is as easy as welding the spider gears. Why would you
                  > drive it snout down though, when you could just rotate it around the
                  > axles to the correct orientation? It will leak oil everywhere that way.
                  > Whatever way it is oriented, just make sure the oil comes up high enough
                  > to cover the inner edge of the ring gear, it will pick up as it rotates.
                  > If it's snout down, you better put a dipstick on it, and maybe a hose on
                  > the vent too depending on where the vent is and how high you fill it. . .
                  >
                  > Scott B
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On 9/10/2013 10:59 PM, David G. LeVine wrote:
                  > >
                  > > On 09/10/2013 02:13 PM, Dennis Shelgren wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >> How about driving the headstock using an automotive differential,
                  > >> power it from the bottom and now the axis' of rotation is aligned
                  > >> with the power input?
                  > >
                  > > You would need a solid spool to do that, but running directly from a
                  > > ring and pinion is possible, however getting the hypoid gear lube to
                  > > stay where it is needed is non-trivial. Run the ring and pinion dry
                  > > and under load and you will wear them out in 2 hours of operation
                  > > unless they burn up.
                  > >
                  > > Dave 8{)
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > >
                  > > "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need
                  > > the advice."
                  > >
                  > > Bill Cosby
                  > >
                  >
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