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Are there any stories and videos of multimachines running?

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  • Petera
    Hi, Are there any links to these multimachines that other people have built. I d like to see some videos footage of cutting and machining with one. Are they
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 30, 2013
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      Hi,

      Are there any links to these multimachines that other people have built. I'd like to see some videos footage of cutting and machining with one.

      Are they accurate enough compared to a store bought milling machine or lathe?

      Peter
    • Kobus Van der Walt
      +1 i can understand a drawing (picture=1000 words ) - but a video! regards Kobus
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 1, 2013
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        +1
        i can understand a drawing (picture=1000 words ) - but a video!
        regards
        Kobus

        On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 12:32 AM, Petera <apples0_17@...> wrote:
         

        Hi,

        Are there any links to these multimachines that other people have built. I'd like to see some videos footage of cutting and machining with one.

        Are they accurate enough compared to a store bought milling machine or lathe?

        Peter


      • Pat Delany
        Hello Peter Most of the videos of the machine at work are buried in many thousands of pictures and unless it is very  important I will wait on finding them.
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 1, 2013
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          Hello Peter
          Most of the videos of the machine at work are buried in many thousands of pictures and unless it is very  important I will wait on finding them.

          You did do me a favor by starting me thinking about machine accuracy. Except for one thing, the machines can be made (with great care) as accurate as a common Chinese machine that has been used for a few years. The big flaw is in the quality of available lead screws, a problem that has been discussed here many times.

          IMPORTANT (maybe!) last night it occurred to me that the answer was staring me in the face. A wooden (or plastic) block like that used on the thread follower could also be used on the cross slide instead of the commonly used nut. A wooden block could average out the crossfeed thread imperfections and it could remove most (or all) backlash. This would seem  pretty cool since I have never seen a cross slide without considerable backlash.  

          have to draw this

          Pat


          From: Petera <apples0_17@...>
          To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 5:32 PM
          Subject: [multimachine] Are there any stories and videos of multimachines running?

           
          Hi,

          Are there any links to these multimachines that other people have built. I'd like to see some videos footage of cutting and machining with one.

          Are they accurate enough compared to a store bought milling machine or lathe?

          Peter



        • Pierre Coueffin
          Pat posted some footage a few years back: http://blip.tv/bryantrv/multi-machine-walkthrough-1381435 Go about a minute in, and watch him torture test it trying
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 1, 2013
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            Pat posted some footage a few years back:

            http://blip.tv/bryantrv/multi-machine-walkthrough-1381435

            Go about a minute in, and watch him torture test it trying to make it chatter.  I've had guys who operate million dollar machines stand there with their jaws dropped open at the thought that a home-built could take such abuse.

            On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 3:32 PM, Petera <apples0_17@...> wrote:

            Are there any links to these multimachines that other people have built. I'd like to see some videos footage of cutting and machining with one.

          • Pat Delany
            Thanks Pierre You are a good guy. A reason for the low level of chatter is the massively over designed spindle. With a big pulley and a 6 chuck it weighs well
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 1, 2013
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              Thanks Pierre
              You are a good guy.

              A reason for the low level of chatter is the massively over designed spindle. With a big pulley and a 6" chuck it weighs well over 100 pounds.

              Pat


              From: Pierre Coueffin <pcoueffin@...>
              To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, July 1, 2013 11:58 AM
              Subject: Re: [multimachine] Are there any stories and videos of multimachines running?

               
              Pat posted some footage a few years back:

              http://blip.tv/bryantrv/multi-machine-walkthrough-1381435

              Go about a minute in, and watch him torture test it trying to make it chatter.  I've had guys who operate million dollar machines stand there with their jaws dropped open at the thought that a home-built could take such abuse.

              On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 3:32 PM, Petera <apples0_17@...> wrote:
              Are there any links to these multimachines that other people have built. I'd like to see some videos footage of cutting and machining with one.


            • Chris Tofu
              Can we start a youtube channel. Blip won t work for me
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 1, 2013
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                Can we start a youtube channel. Blip won't work for me


                ------------------------------
                On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 9:58 AM PDT Pierre Coueffin wrote:

                >Pat posted some footage a few years back:
                >
                >http://blip.tv/bryantrv/multi-machine-walkthrough-1381435
                >
                >Go about a minute in, and watch him torture test it trying to make it
                >chatter. I've had guys who operate million dollar machines stand there
                >with their jaws dropped open at the thought that a home-built could take
                >such abuse.
                >
                >On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 3:32 PM, Petera <apples0_17@...> wrote:
                >
                >> **
                >>
                >> Are there any links to these multimachines that other people have built.
                >> I'd like to see some videos footage of cutting and machining with one.
                >>
              • David G. LeVine
                ... Actually, having seen CNC lathes before with ball screws, I have seen a few with under 0.0005 (yes 1/2 of a thousandth) backlash. It can be done, often is
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 1, 2013
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                  On 07/01/2013 11:49 AM, Pat Delany wrote:
                  > IMPORTANT (maybe!) last night it occurred to me that the answer was
                  > staring me in the face. A wooden (or plastic) block like that used on
                  > the thread follower could also be used on the cross slide instead of
                  > the commonly used nut. A wooden block could average out the crossfeed
                  > thread imperfections and it could remove most (or all) backlash. This
                  > would seem pretty cool since I have never seen a cross slide without
                  > considerable backlash.

                  Actually, having seen CNC lathes before with ball screws, I have seen a
                  few with under 0.0005" (yes 1/2 of a thousandth) backlash. It can be
                  done, often is has been done but manually operated lathes where the
                  cutting is only in one direction tend to be less needful of that
                  embellishment.

                  And many inaccurate lathes are both very precise and very repeatable,
                  resulting in quite good work. A lathe with a straight bed and
                  repeatable positioning can do incredible work with the right operator.

                  Dave 8{)

                  --

                  "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the
                  advice."

                  Bill Cosby
                • Steve Wan
                  Hi Guys Here s the video of a DIY lathe, not sure the base contains any filled cement or at the headstock. Very impressive and easy to build.
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 2, 2013
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                    Hi Guys

                    Here's the video of a DIY lathe, not sure the base contains any filled
                    cement or at the headstock. Very impressive and easy to build.

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwmpFI1kDww

                    Steve Wan

                    On 7/2/13, David G. LeVine <dlevine@...> wrote:
                    > On 07/01/2013 11:49 AM, Pat Delany wrote:
                    >> IMPORTANT (maybe!) last night it occurred to me that the answer was
                    >> staring me in the face. A wooden (or plastic) block like that used on
                    >> the thread follower could also be used on the cross slide instead of
                    >> the commonly used nut. A wooden block could average out the crossfeed
                    >> thread imperfections and it could remove most (or all) backlash. This
                    >> would seem pretty cool since I have never seen a cross slide without
                    >> considerable backlash.
                    >
                    > Actually, having seen CNC lathes before with ball screws, I have seen a
                    > few with under 0.0005" (yes 1/2 of a thousandth) backlash. It can be
                    > done, often is has been done but manually operated lathes where the
                    > cutting is only in one direction tend to be less needful of that
                    > embellishment.
                    >
                    > And many inaccurate lathes are both very precise and very repeatable,
                    > resulting in quite good work. A lathe with a straight bed and
                    > repeatable positioning can do incredible work with the right operator.
                    >
                    > Dave 8{)
                    >
                    > --
                    >
                    > "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the
                    > advice."
                    >
                    > Bill Cosby
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > -------------
                    > We have a sister site for files and pictures dedicated to concrete machine
                    > framed machine tools. You will find a great deal of information about
                    > concrete based machines and the inventor of the concrete frame lathe, Lucian
                    > Ingraham Yeomans. Go to
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Multimachine-Concrete-Machine-Tools/
                    >
                    > Also visit the Joseph V. Romig group for even more concrete tool
                    > construction, shop notes, stories, and wisdom from the early 20th Century.
                    > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/romig_designs/
                    > -------------Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • keith gutshall
                    HI Guys  Maybe the bachlash on a leadscrew is some where besides the threads.  On my mil-drill table there is clearence where the screw goes thriugh the
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 2, 2013
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                      HI Guys
                       Maybe the bachlash on a leadscrew is some where besides the threads.
                       On my mil-drill table there is clearence where the screw goes thriugh the casting.
                       The handle has some slack so you can turn it.
                       There is an adjustment nut on the outside, but if you get it to tight the knob will
                      not turn.
                       
                       Keith
                       
                      Deep Run Portage
                      Back Shop
                      " The Lizard Works"
                      From: David G. LeVine <dlevine@...>
                      To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2013 12:04 AM
                      Subject: Re: [multimachine] Are there any stories and videos of multimachines running?
                       
                      On 07/01/2013 11:49 AM, Pat Delany wrote:
                      > IMPORTANT (maybe!) last night it occurred to me that the answer was
                      > staring me in the face. A wooden (or plastic) block like that used on
                      > the thread follower could also be used on the cross slide instead of
                      > the commonly used nut. A wooden block could average out the crossfeed
                      > thread imperfections and it could remove most (or all) backlash. This
                      > would seem pretty cool since I have never seen a cross slide without
                      > considerable backlash.

                      Actually, having seen CNC lathes before with ball screws, I have seen a
                      few with under 0.0005" (yes 1/2 of a thousandth) backlash. It can be
                      done, often is has been done but manually operated lathes where the
                      cutting is only in one direction tend to be less needful of that
                      embellishment.

                      And many inaccurate lathes are both very precise and very repeatable,
                      resulting in quite good work. A lathe with a straight bed and
                      repeatable positioning can do incredible work with the right operator.

                      Dave 8{)

                      --

                      "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the
                      advice."

                      Bill Cosby
                    • chris green
                      My Ad blocker stopped the video from running, at least until the ads on it finished playing. Wait 90 seconds and maybe it ll start for you. Or you can watch
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jul 2, 2013
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                        My Ad blocker stopped the video from running, at least until the ads on it finished playing. Wait 90 seconds and maybe it'll start for you. Or you can watch the 30-40 seconds of ads that pay for the site.... :-)

                        Cheers,

                        Chris Green



                        From: Chris Tofu <rampaginggreenhulk@...>
                        To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, July 1, 2013 6:24:01 PM
                        Subject: Re: [multimachine] Are there any stories and videos of multimachines running?

                         


                        Can we start a youtube channel. Blip won't work for me

                        ------------------------------
                        On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 9:58 AM PDT Pierre Coueffin wrote:

                        >Pat posted some footage a few years back:
                        >
                        >http://blip.tv/bryantrv/multi-machine-walkthrough-1381435
                        >
                      • Pat Delany
                        Thanks guys, The 2007 video is really both bad and obsolete. Storebought cross feeds have gotten too expensive to use but the crossfeed from the concrete lathe
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jul 2, 2013
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                          Thanks guys, The 2007 video is really both bad and obsolete. Storebought cross feeds have gotten too expensive to use but the crossfeed from the concrete lathe combined with a Romig style bed would be easy and relatively cheap. Heavy springs should be added to pull the blocks together when milling on the Y axis (IF YOU DON'T WANT TO DO THE LOGICAL THING AND LEAN THE WHOLE THING BACKWARDS SO THAT THE BLOCKS WILL STAY TOGETHER WHEN THE CLAMPS ARE LOOSENED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

                          Pat 


                          From: chris green <hraefn_2@...>
                          To: "multimachine@yahoogroups.com" <multimachine@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2013 4:24 PM
                          Subject: Re: [multimachine] Are there any stories and videos of multimachines running?

                           
                          My Ad blocker stopped the video from running, at least until the ads on it finished playing. Wait 90 seconds and maybe it'll start for you. Or you can watch the 30-40 seconds of ads that pay for the site.... :-)

                          Cheers,

                          Chris Green



                          From: Chris Tofu <rampaginggreenhulk@...>
                          To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, July 1, 2013 6:24:01 PM
                          Subject: Re: [multimachine] Are there any stories and videos of multimachines running?

                           


                          Can we start a youtube channel. Blip won't work for me

                          ------------------------------
                          On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 9:58 AM PDT Pierre Coueffin wrote:

                          >Pat posted some footage a few years back:
                          >
                          >http://blip.tv/bryantrv/multi-machine-walkthrough-1381435
                          >


                        • David G. LeVine
                          ... Keith, I have seen that, usually it means the casting into which the lead screw goes is not well machined. Try some few thou at a time facing cuts to
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jul 2, 2013
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                            On 07/02/2013 01:31 PM, keith gutshall wrote:
                            HI Guys
                             Maybe the bachlash on a leadscrew is some where besides the threads.
                             On my mil-drill table there is clearence where the screw goes thriugh the casting.
                             The handle has some slack so you can turn it.
                             There is an adjustment nut on the outside, but if you get it to tight the knob will
                            not turn.
                             
                             Keith
                             
                            Deep Run Portage
                            Back Shop
                            " The Lizard Works"

                            Keith,

                            I have seen that, usually it means the casting into which the lead screw goes is not well machined.  Try some "few thou at a time" facing cuts to get the surfaces true.

                            Dave  8{)

                            --

                            "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice."

                            Bill Cosby
                          • Kobus Van der Walt
                            hi a friend of mine and member of www.house4hack.co.za use a masonry drill bit for lead screw- 200 step stepper motor- in 3D printing. Over here we buy it for
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jul 2, 2013
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                              hi a friend of mine and member of www.house4hack.co.za use a masonry drill bit for lead screw- 200 step stepper motor- in 3D printing. Over here we buy it for $15. I know this has been mentioned before. 

                              The nut is made from PLA or ABS plastic. And since it is his Z axis(the one that go up and down?) he use gravity for anti backlash. But i moved the axis - there is very little play on. He senses his printing bed and do levelling with software- so his Z axis move up and down all the time. And in 3D printing the tolerances are very fine as well. So maybe gravity can also be used in machine design for this "problem"? 

                              regards
                              Kobus

                              On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 11:23 AM, Steve Wan <stewan@...> wrote:
                               

                              Hi Guys

                              Here's the video of a DIY lathe, not sure the base contains any filled
                              cement or at the headstock. Very impressive and easy to build.

                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwmpFI1kDww

                              Steve Wan



                              On 7/2/13, David G. LeVine <dlevine@...> wrote:
                              > On 07/01/2013 11:49 AM, Pat Delany wrote:
                              >> IMPORTANT (maybe!) last night it occurred to me that the answer was
                              >> staring me in the face. A wooden (or plastic) block like that used on
                              >> the thread follower could also be used on the cross slide instead of
                              >> the commonly used nut. A wooden block could average out the crossfeed
                              >> thread imperfections and it could remove most (or all) backlash. This
                              >> would seem pretty cool since I have never seen a cross slide without
                              >> considerable backlash.
                              >
                              > Actually, having seen CNC lathes before with ball screws, I have seen a
                              > few with under 0.0005" (yes 1/2 of a thousandth) backlash. It can be
                              > done, often is has been done but manually operated lathes where the
                              > cutting is only in one direction tend to be less needful of that
                              > embellishment.
                              >
                              > And many inaccurate lathes are both very precise and very repeatable,
                              > resulting in quite good work. A lathe with a straight bed and
                              > repeatable positioning can do incredible work with the right operator.
                              >
                              > Dave 8{)
                              >
                              > --
                              >
                              > "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the
                              > advice."
                              >
                              > Bill Cosby
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------

                              >
                              > -------------
                              > We have a sister site for files and pictures dedicated to concrete machine
                              > framed machine tools. You will find a great deal of information about
                              > concrete based machines and the inventor of the concrete frame lathe, Lucian
                              > Ingraham Yeomans. Go to
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Multimachine-Concrete-Machine-Tools/
                              >
                              > Also visit the Joseph V. Romig group for even more concrete tool
                              > construction, shop notes, stories, and wisdom from the early 20th Century.
                              > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/romig_designs/
                              > -------------Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >


                            • Kobus Van der Walt
                              Or just do what Pat said. Use gravity, available in abundance and free. And in any bearing nut there have to be play- otherwise it cant work.
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jul 2, 2013
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                                Or just do what Pat said. Use gravity, available in abundance and free. And in any bearing nut there have to be play- otherwise it cant work.

                                On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 7:30 AM, Kobus Van der Walt <kvdwalt@...> wrote:
                                hi a friend of mine and member of www.house4hack.co.za use a masonry drill bit for lead screw- 200 step stepper motor- in 3D printing. Over here we buy it for $15. I know this has been mentioned before. 

                                The nut is made from PLA or ABS plastic. And since it is his Z axis(the one that go up and down?) he use gravity for anti backlash. But i moved the axis - there is very little play on. He senses his printing bed and do levelling with software- so his Z axis move up and down all the time. And in 3D printing the tolerances are very fine as well. So maybe gravity can also be used in machine design for this "problem"? 

                                regards
                                Kobus


                                On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 11:23 AM, Steve Wan <stewan@...> wrote:
                                 

                                Hi Guys

                                Here's the video of a DIY lathe, not sure the base contains any filled
                                cement or at the headstock. Very impressive and easy to build.

                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwmpFI1kDww

                                Steve Wan



                                On 7/2/13, David G. LeVine <dlevine@...> wrote:
                                > On 07/01/2013 11:49 AM, Pat Delany wrote:
                                >> IMPORTANT (maybe!) last night it occurred to me that the answer was
                                >> staring me in the face. A wooden (or plastic) block like that used on
                                >> the thread follower could also be used on the cross slide instead of
                                >> the commonly used nut. A wooden block could average out the crossfeed
                                >> thread imperfections and it could remove most (or all) backlash. This
                                >> would seem pretty cool since I have never seen a cross slide without
                                >> considerable backlash.
                                >
                                > Actually, having seen CNC lathes before with ball screws, I have seen a
                                > few with under 0.0005" (yes 1/2 of a thousandth) backlash. It can be
                                > done, often is has been done but manually operated lathes where the
                                > cutting is only in one direction tend to be less needful of that
                                > embellishment.
                                >
                                > And many inaccurate lathes are both very precise and very repeatable,
                                > resulting in quite good work. A lathe with a straight bed and
                                > repeatable positioning can do incredible work with the right operator.
                                >
                                > Dave 8{)
                                >
                                > --
                                >
                                > "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the
                                > advice."
                                >
                                > Bill Cosby
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------

                                >
                                > -------------
                                > We have a sister site for files and pictures dedicated to concrete machine
                                > framed machine tools. You will find a great deal of information about
                                > concrete based machines and the inventor of the concrete frame lathe, Lucian
                                > Ingraham Yeomans. Go to
                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Multimachine-Concrete-Machine-Tools/
                                >
                                > Also visit the Joseph V. Romig group for even more concrete tool
                                > construction, shop notes, stories, and wisdom from the early 20th Century.
                                > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/romig_designs/
                                > -------------Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >



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