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Re: [multimachine] quality of threaded rod

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  • Adam Simmons
    The problem is less with the rod and more with the threads. Most Home Depot type stores will have traditionally cut (triangle) threaded rods instead of the
    Message 1 of 27 , Jun 18, 2013
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      The problem is less with the rod and more with the threads.  Most Home Depot type stores will have traditionally cut (triangle) threaded rods instead of the Acme (trapezoid), they're not great under load or accurate.

      McMaster's pricing really isn't too horrible, it's better to pony up a few extra dollars from them if you can't source locally.

       - Adam


      On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Chris Tofu <rampaginggreenhulk@...> wrote:
       


      Many, but not all by any means, lathes use acme rod for lead and feed screws. If you were repairing (or building!) a lathe, you'd probably choose something from a vendor like MSC. How does precision (non-ACME) threaded rod compare with the 1/2 - 3/4" stuff from Home Depot or wherever? Usually the stuff is 3 - 6' long.


    • Bruce Bellows
      Acme threaded rod typically is available in 3 precision grades, 2G, 3G, and 4G. There are other grades also but they are not as common. Most general purpose
      Message 2 of 27 , Jun 18, 2013
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        Acme threaded rod typically is available in 3 precision grades, 2G, 3G, and 4G. There are other grades also but they are not as common. Most general purpose stuff is 2G, if reduced backlash is required a 3 or 4G is specified. You won't find the precision stuff at Home Depot type stores. McMaster Carr or Motion Industries would be a more likely source.

        Bruce



        On 6/18/2013 4:34 PM, Chris Tofu wrote:  


        Many, but not all by any means, lathes use acme rod for lead and feed screws. If you were repairing (or building!) a lathe, you'd probably choose something from a vendor like MSC. How does precision (non-ACME) threaded rod compare with the 1/2 - 3/4" stuff from Home Depot or wherever? Usually the stuff is 3 - 6' long.

      • Chris Tofu
        My ancient Pratt & Whitney 880 precision bench lathe , a jumbo watch style lathe, uses triangular threads. So do the smaller Prazis. I don t think there s
        Message 3 of 27 , Jun 18, 2013
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          My ancient Pratt & Whitney 880 "precision bench lathe", a jumbo watch style lathe, uses triangular threads. So do the smaller Prazis. I don't think there's anything inherently inaccurate about triangular threads. The issue may be *making* an accurate triangular thread.

          I was just asking. I wouldn't use Homo Depot rods as a rule. Just helpful to understand why there's a difference.

          ------------------------------
          On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 4:00 PM PDT Adam Simmons wrote:

          >The problem is less with the rod and more with the threads. Most Home
          >Depot type stores will have traditionally cut (triangle) threaded rods
          >instead of the Acme (trapezoid), they're not great under load or accurate.
          >
          >McMaster's pricing really isn't too horrible, it's better to pony up a few
          >extra dollars from them if you can't source locally.
          >
          > - Adam
          >
          >
          >On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Chris Tofu <rampaginggreenhulk@...>wrote:
          >
          >> **
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> Many, but not all by any means, lathes use acme rod for lead and feed
          >> screws. If you were repairing (or building!) a lathe, you'd probably choose
          >> something from a vendor like MSC. How does precision (non-ACME) threaded
          >> rod compare with the 1/2 - 3/4" stuff from Home Depot or wherever? Usually
          >> the stuff is 3 - 6' long.
          >>
          >>
        • Steve Wan
          Hi all Speaking of square threads or acme threads, any idea where s the supplier? Having problems find it on the net. Note: Acme threads come in either inches
          Message 4 of 27 , Jun 18, 2013
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            Hi all

            Speaking of square threads or acme threads, any idea where's the supplier?
            Having problems find it on the net.

            Note: Acme threads come in either inches or metric.

            Steve Wan

            On 6/19/13, Chris Tofu <rampaginggreenhulk@...> wrote:
            >
            > My ancient Pratt & Whitney 880 "precision bench lathe", a jumbo watch style
            > lathe, uses triangular threads. So do the smaller Prazis. I don't think
            > there's anything inherently inaccurate about triangular threads. The issue
            > may be *making* an accurate triangular thread.
            >
            > I was just asking. I wouldn't use Homo Depot rods as a rule. Just helpful to
            > understand why there's a difference.
            >
            > ------------------------------
            > On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 4:00 PM PDT Adam Simmons wrote:
            >
            >>The problem is less with the rod and more with the threads. Most Home
            >>Depot type stores will have traditionally cut (triangle) threaded rods
            >>instead of the Acme (trapezoid), they're not great under load or accurate.
            >>
            >>McMaster's pricing really isn't too horrible, it's better to pony up a few
            >>extra dollars from them if you can't source locally.
            >>
            >> - Adam
            >>
            >>
            >>On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Chris Tofu
            >> <rampaginggreenhulk@...>wrote:
            >>
            >>> **
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> Many, but not all by any means, lathes use acme rod for lead and feed
            >>> screws. If you were repairing (or building!) a lathe, you'd probably
            >>> choose
            >>> something from a vendor like MSC. How does precision (non-ACME) threaded
            >>> rod compare with the 1/2 - 3/4" stuff from Home Depot or wherever?
            >>> Usually
            >>> the stuff is 3 - 6' long.
            >>>
            >>>
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > -------------
            > We have a sister site for files and pictures dedicated to concrete machine
            > framed machine tools. You will find a great deal of information about
            > concrete based machines and the inventor of the concrete frame lathe, Lucian
            > Ingraham Yeomans. Go to
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Multimachine-Concrete-Machine-Tools/
            >
            > Also visit the Joseph V. Romig group for even more concrete tool
            > construction, shop notes, stories, and wisdom from the early 20th Century.
            > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/romig_designs/
            > -------------Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • keith gutshall
            Hi Chris You asked about the accuracy of the threaded rod at home depot, it is about as good  as anything ..  The guys who talk about acme threaded rod
            Message 5 of 27 , Jun 19, 2013
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              Hi Chris
              You asked about the accuracy of the threaded rod at home depot, it is about as good
               as anything ..
               The guys who talk about acme threaded rod didn't read the fine print at the top of the
               page, The part about 0.009 error per foot.
               I used a piece of threaded rod, 3/4-10tpi, and it cut right to the thread gage I have.
               Yes, the threads are not as strong as acme threads,but on a smaller machine it should
               work fine.
               
               Keith
               
               
              Deep Run Portage
              Back Shop
              " The Lizard Works"
              From: Chris Tofu <rampaginggreenhulk@...>
              To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 7:26 PM
              Subject: Re: [multimachine] quality of threaded rod
               

              My ancient Pratt & Whitney 880 "precision bench lathe", a jumbo watch style lathe, uses triangular threads. So do the smaller Prazis. I don't think there's anything inherently inaccurate about triangular threads. The issue may be *making* an accurate triangular thread.

              I was just asking. I wouldn't use Homo Depot rods as a rule. Just helpful to understand why there's a difference.

              ------------------------------
              On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 4:00 PM PDT Adam Simmons wrote:

              >The problem is less with the rod and more with the threads. Most Home
              >Depot type stores will have traditionally cut (triangle) threaded rods
              >instead of the Acme (trapezoid), they're not great under load or accurate.
              >
              >McMaster's pricing really isn't too horrible, it's better to pony up a few
              >extra dollars from them if you can't source locally.
              >
              > - Adam
              >
              >
              >On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Chris Tofu <mailto:rampaginggreenhulk%40yahoo.com>wrote:
              >
              >> **
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> Many, but not all by any means, lathes use acme rod for lead and feed
              >> screws. If you were repairing (or building!) a lathe, you'd probably choose
              >> something from a vendor like MSC. How does precision (non-ACME) threaded
              >> rod compare with the 1/2 - 3/4" stuff from Home Depot or wherever? Usually
              >> the stuff is 3 - 6' long.
              >>
              >>

            • louisrfnauto
              acme thread is avalible FREE, old office chairs use it, is just inst very long, about one foot, or 18 inches.
              Message 6 of 27 , Jun 19, 2013
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                acme thread is avalible FREE, old office chairs use it, is just inst very long, about one foot, or 18 inches.

                --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, keith gutshall <drpshops@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Chris
                > You asked about the accuracy of the threaded rod at home depot, it is about as good
                >  as anything ..
                >  The guys who talk about acme threaded rod didn't read the fine print at the top of the
                >  page, The part about 0.009 error per foot.
                >  I used a piece of threaded rod, 3/4-10tpi, and it cut right to the thread gage I have.
                >  Yes, the threads are not as strong as acme threads,but on a smaller machine it should
                >  work fine.
                >  
                >  Keith
                >  
                >
                > Deep Run Portage
                > Back Shop
                > " The Lizard Works"
                >
                > From: Chris Tofu <rampaginggreenhulk@...>
                > To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 7:26 PM
                > Subject: Re: [multimachine] quality of threaded rod
                >
                >  
                >
                > My ancient Pratt & Whitney 880 "precision bench lathe", a jumbo watch style lathe, uses triangular threads. So do the smaller Prazis. I don't think there's anything inherently inaccurate about triangular threads. The issue may be *making* an accurate triangular thread.
                >
                > I was just asking. I wouldn't use Homo Depot rods as a rule. Just helpful to understand why there's a difference.
                >
                > ------------------------------
                > On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 4:00 PM PDT Adam Simmons wrote:
                >
                > >The problem is less with the rod and more with the threads. Most Home
                > >Depot type stores will have traditionally cut (triangle) threaded rods
                > >instead of the Acme (trapezoid), they're not great under load or accurate.
                > >
                > >McMaster's pricing really isn't too horrible, it's better to pony up a few
                > >extra dollars from them if you can't source locally.
                > >
                > > - Adam
                > >
                > >
                > >On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Chris Tofu <mailto:rampaginggreenhulk%40yahoo.com>wrote:
                > >
                > >> **
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> Many, but not all by any means, lathes use acme rod for lead and feed
                > >> screws. If you were repairing (or building!) a lathe, you'd probably choose
                > >> something from a vendor like MSC. How does precision (non-ACME) threaded
                > >> rod compare with the 1/2 - 3/4" stuff from Home Depot or wherever? Usually
                > >> the stuff is 3 - 6' long.
                > >>
                > >>
                >
              • Pierre Coueffin
                Also, vices, house-levelling posts, and screw-jacks... But I suspect that all of these sources use the stuff that is of the lowest precision available... If
                Message 7 of 27 , Jun 19, 2013
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                  Also, vices, house-levelling posts, and screw-jacks...  But I suspect that all of these sources use the stuff that is of the lowest precision available... If you are switching to Acme because you are applying so much force that you strip the threads off your leadscrew, then by all means, these are good sources, but if you need better quality threads, I doubt that these will be any better than all-thread.

                  Also, if you manage to apply enough force on a lathe to strip the leadscrew, you need to adjust your feeds and speeds.  A lot.  And maybe sharpen your tools.


                  On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 10:41 AM, louisrfnauto <louisrfnauto@...> wrote:
                   

                  acme thread is avalible FREE, old office chairs use it, is just inst very long, about one foot, or 18 inches.


                • louisrfnauto
                  i agree with you, i put this info out there so people may have a source of threaded stock that they didnt think of before..some folks reading this may have to
                  Message 8 of 27 , Jun 19, 2013
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                    i agree with you, i put this info out there so people may have a source of threaded stock that they didnt think of before..some folks reading this may have to make do with what they can find, not what they wish they had.

                    --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Pierre Coueffin <pcoueffin@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Also, vices, house-levelling posts, and screw-jacks... But I suspect that
                    > all of these sources use the stuff that is of the lowest precision
                    > available... If you are switching to Acme because you are applying so much
                    > force that you strip the threads off your leadscrew, then by all means,
                    > these are good sources, but if you need better quality threads, I doubt
                    > that these will be any better than all-thread.
                    >
                    > Also, if you manage to apply enough force on a lathe to strip the
                    > leadscrew, you need to adjust your feeds and speeds. A lot. And maybe
                    > sharpen your tools.
                    >
                    >
                    > On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 10:41 AM, louisrfnauto <louisrfnauto@...>wrote:
                    >
                    > > **
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > acme thread is avalible FREE, old office chairs use it, is just inst very
                    > > long, about one foot, or 18 inches.
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Nick Andrews
                    What, you mean Barack s home village in Kenya doesn t have a Home Repot or Lowe s there? Oh, the horror! But yes, an old office chair sounds like a great
                    Message 9 of 27 , Jun 20, 2013
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                      What, you mean Barack's home village in Kenya doesn't have a Home Repot or Lowe's there?  Oh, the horror!  But yes, an old office chair sounds like a great source for short pieces!


                      On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 11:08 PM, louisrfnauto <louisrfnauto@...> wrote:
                       

                      i agree with you, i put this info out there so people may have a source of threaded stock that they didnt think of before..some folks reading this may have to make do with what they can find, not what they wish they had.

                      --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Pierre Coueffin <pcoueffin@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Also, vices, house-levelling posts, and screw-jacks... But I suspect that
                      > all of these sources use the stuff that is of the lowest precision
                      > available... If you are switching to Acme because you are applying so much
                      > force that you strip the threads off your leadscrew, then by all means,
                      > these are good sources, but if you need better quality threads, I doubt
                      > that these will be any better than all-thread.
                      >
                      > Also, if you manage to apply enough force on a lathe to strip the
                      > leadscrew, you need to adjust your feeds and speeds. A lot. And maybe
                      > sharpen your tools.
                      >
                      >
                      > On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 10:41 AM, louisrfnauto <louisrfnauto@...>wrote:
                      >
                      > > **
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > acme thread is avalible FREE, old office chairs use it, is just inst very
                      > > long, about one foot, or 18 inches.
                      > >
                      > >
                      >




                      --
                      Nick A

                      "You know what I wish?  I wish that all the scum of the world had but a single throat, and I had my hands about it..."  Rorschach, 1975

                      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

                      "Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names the streets after them." Bill Vaughan

                      "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
                    • Pat
                      Strangely enough I have been just looking into this. Jeremmy is recovering from his near terminal illness and I would like to help him make a few bucks. He
                      Message 10 of 27 , Jun 20, 2013
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                        Strangely enough I have been just looking into this. Jeremmy is recovering from his near terminal illness and I would like to help him make a few bucks. He wants to make wooden markers for funerals and graves (a very big market in a bad AIDS area). This would be a good tie in with his coffin making business. I found him plans for a heavy duty wooden pantograph? that is the perfect size. Finding a router is another matter. A web search turned up just 1 dealer in Kenya who sold them.

                        Remember that Jeremmy is a very special guy. He learned to use Sketchup in just one day!

                        Pat

                        --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Nick Andrews <nickjandrews@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > What, you mean Barack's home village in Kenya doesn't have a Home Repot or
                        > Lowe's there? Oh, the horror! But yes, an old office chair sounds like a
                        > great source for short pieces!
                        >
                        >
                        > On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 11:08 PM, louisrfnauto <louisrfnauto@...>wrote:
                        >
                        > > **
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > i agree with you, i put this info out there so people may have a source of
                        > > threaded stock that they didnt think of before..some folks reading this may
                        > > have to make do with what they can find, not what they wish they had.
                        > >
                        > > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Pierre Coueffin <pcoueffin@>
                        > > wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Also, vices, house-levelling posts, and screw-jacks... But I suspect that
                        > > > all of these sources use the stuff that is of the lowest precision
                        > > > available... If you are switching to Acme because you are applying so
                        > > much
                        > > > force that you strip the threads off your leadscrew, then by all means,
                        > > > these are good sources, but if you need better quality threads, I doubt
                        > > > that these will be any better than all-thread.
                        > > >
                        > > > Also, if you manage to apply enough force on a lathe to strip the
                        > > > leadscrew, you need to adjust your feeds and speeds. A lot. And maybe
                        > > > sharpen your tools.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 10:41 AM, louisrfnauto <louisrfnauto@>wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > > **
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > acme thread is avalible FREE, old office chairs use it, is just inst
                        > > very
                        > > > > long, about one foot, or 18 inches.
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --
                        > Nick A
                        >
                        > "You know what I wish? I wish that all the scum of the world had but a
                        > single throat, and I had my hands about it..." Rorschach, 1975
                        >
                        > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
                        > safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin, Historical
                        > Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
                        >
                        > "Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names the
                        > streets after them." Bill Vaughan
                        >
                        > "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
                        > Plato
                        >
                      • Gregg
                        Pat, really a router is nothing but a high-speed motor mounted to a base. The shaft has a collet to hold the bit and provide limited height adjustment. It
                        Message 11 of 27 , Jun 20, 2013
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                          Pat,

                          really a router is nothing but a high-speed motor mounted to a base. The shaft has a collet to hold the bit and provide limited height adjustment. It shouldnt be too hard to craft one from a standard motor. It just wouldnt cut as fast and certain woods may need more finish work.

                          Gregg
                        • Charles R Patton
                          (I changed the discussion tread from threaded rods as it really has branched out to another subject) One idea that occurs to me. Remember the old human
                          Message 12 of 27 , Jun 20, 2013
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                            (I changed the discussion tread from "threaded rods" as it really has branched out to another subject)

                            One idea that occurs to me.  Remember the old human powered dentist drills of the late 1800's and early 1900's?  The quill was at the end of set of pulleys running a round leather(?) belt about a jointed set of arms and driven by a large diameter human powered pulley.  No need for electricity.  Not as powerful as an electric router, but perhaps more accessible to a lo-tech economy.
                            Do an image search on Google Images using "antique dental drill" and there are many examples of the predecessors to the more currently used air turbine drills of today.  Both foot operated and the later early electric motor operated quills.

                            Using the technique of employing a more likely available standard 1/2 hp or so electric motor driving the quill through belts and idler pulleys, could circumvent the difficulty of more exotic router motors or  high speed quills.  The belt driven quill would also have the advantage of light weight that would help in the ability to use a light weight pantograph for the letter engraving operations. 

                            Regards,
                            Charles R. Patton
                             

                            On 6/20/2013 3:12 PM, Pat wrote:
                             

                            Strangely enough I have been just looking into this. Jeremmy is recovering from his near terminal illness and I would like to help him make a few bucks. He wants to make wooden markers for funerals and graves (a very big market in a bad AIDS area). This would be a good tie in with his coffin making business. I found him plans for a heavy duty wooden pantograph? that is the perfect size. Finding a router is another matter. A web search turned up just 1 dealer in Kenya who sold them.

                            Remember that Jeremmy is a very special guy. He learned to use Sketchup in just one day!

                            Pat


                          • BRIAN GLACKIN
                            For low tech routing just keep the head fixed and move the board. Gryoscopic forces of the motor can be challenging when handheld without a proper stage. On
                            Message 13 of 27 , Jun 20, 2013
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                              For low tech routing just keep the head fixed and move the board. Gryoscopic forces of the motor can be challenging when handheld without a proper stage.

                              On Jun 20, 2013 6:38 PM, "Charles R Patton" <charles.r.patton@...> wrote:
                               

                              (I changed the discussion tread from "threaded rods" as it really has branched out to another subject)

                              One idea that occurs to me.  Remember the old human powered dentist drills of the late 1800's and early 1900's?  The quill was at the end of set of pulleys running a round leather(?) belt about a jointed set of arms and driven by a large diameter human powered pulley.  No need for electricity.  Not as powerful as an electric router, but perhaps more accessible to a lo-tech economy.
                              Do an image search on Google Images using "antique dental drill" and there are many examples of the predecessors to the more currently used air turbine drills of today.  Both foot operated and the later early electric motor operated quills.

                              Using the technique of employing a more likely available standard 1/2 hp or so electric motor driving the quill through belts and idler pulleys, could circumvent the difficulty of more exotic router motors or  high speed quills.  The belt driven quill would also have the advantage of light weight that would help in the ability to use a light weight pantograph for the letter engraving operations. 

                              Regards,
                              Charles R. Patton
                               

                              On 6/20/2013 3:12 PM, Pat wrote:
                               

                              Strangely enough I have been just looking into this. Jeremmy is recovering from his near terminal illness and I would like to help him make a few bucks. He wants to make wooden markers for funerals and graves (a very big market in a bad AIDS area). This would be a good tie in with his coffin making business. I found him plans for a heavy duty wooden pantograph? that is the perfect size. Finding a router is another matter. A web search turned up just 1 dealer in Kenya who sold them.

                              Remember that Jeremmy is a very special guy. He learned to use Sketchup in just one day!

                              Pat


                            • Bruce Bellows
                              Keep one thing in mind that a lot of wood found in Africa is going to be very hard so very sharp cutters turning very fast may be required. Bruce
                              Message 14 of 27 , Jun 20, 2013
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                                Keep one thing in mind that a lot of wood found in Africa is going to be very hard so very sharp cutters turning very fast may be required.

                                Bruce

                                On 6/20/2013 6:36 PM, Charles R Patton wrote:
                                 

                                (I changed the discussion tread from "threaded rods" as it really has branched out to another subject)

                                One idea that occurs to me.  Remember the old human powered dentist drills of the late 1800's and early 1900's?  The quill was at the end of set of pulleys running a round leather(?) belt about a jointed set of arms and driven by a large diameter human powered pulley.  No need for electricity.  Not as powerful as an electric router, but perhaps more accessible to a lo-tech economy.
                                Do an image search on Google Images using "antique dental drill" and there are many examples of the predecessors to the more currently used air turbine drills of today.  Both foot operated and the later early electric motor operated quills.

                                Using the technique of employing a more likely available standard 1/2 hp or so electric motor driving the quill through belts and idler pulleys, could circumvent the difficulty of more exotic router motors or  high speed quills.  The belt driven quill would also have the advantage of light weight that would help in the ability to use a light weight pantograph for the letter engraving operations. 

                                Regards,
                                Charles R. Patton
                                 

                                On 6/20/2013 3:12 PM, Pat wrote:
                                 

                                Strangely enough I have been just looking into this. Jeremmy is recovering from his near terminal illness and I would like to help him make a few bucks. He wants to make wooden markers for funerals and graves (a very big market in a bad AIDS area). This would be a good tie in with his coffin making business. I found him plans for a heavy duty wooden pantograph? that is the perfect size. Finding a router is another matter. A web search turned up just 1 dealer in Kenya who sold them.

                                Remember that Jeremmy is a very special guy. He learned to use Sketchup in just one day!

                                Pat


                              • Pierre Coueffin
                                I can cut steel with a sharp, slow-moving cutter. I doubt that many woods will be harder. Before modern electric routers were available, tools like this:
                                Message 15 of 27 , Jun 20, 2013
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                                  I can cut steel with a sharp, slow-moving cutter.  I doubt that many woods will be harder.

                                  Before modern electric routers were available, tools like this:
                                  and this:
                                  With custom ground bits did their job.


                                  On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 8:44 PM, Bruce Bellows <bbellows@...> wrote

                                  Keep one thing in mind that a lot of wood found in Africa is going to be very hard so very sharp cutters turning very fast may be required.

                                • louisrfnauto
                                  wood cutting tools must be Razor sharp,or sharper and kept razor sharp during use.
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Jun 21, 2013
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                                    wood cutting tools must be Razor sharp,or sharper and kept razor sharp during use.

                                    --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Bellows <bbellows@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Keep one thing in mind that a lot of wood found in Africa is going to be
                                    > very hard so very sharp cutters turning very fast may be required.
                                    >
                                    > Bruce
                                    >
                                    > On 6/20/2013 6:36 PM, Charles R Patton wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > (I changed the discussion tread from "threaded rods" as it really has
                                    > > branched out to another subject)
                                    > >
                                    > > One idea that occurs to me. Remember the old human powered dentist
                                    > > drills of the late 1800's and early 1900's? The quill was at the end
                                    > > of set of pulleys running a round leather(?) belt about a jointed set
                                    > > of arms and driven by a large diameter human powered pulley. No need
                                    > > for electricity. Not as powerful as an electric router, but perhaps
                                    > > more accessible to a lo-tech economy.
                                    > > Do an image search on Google Images using "antique dental drill" and
                                    > > there are many examples of the predecessors to the more currently used
                                    > > air turbine drills of today. Both foot operated and the later early
                                    > > electric motor operated quills.
                                    > >
                                    > > Using the technique of employing a more likely available standard 1/2
                                    > > hp or so electric motor driving the quill through belts and idler
                                    > > pulleys, could circumvent the difficulty of more exotic router motors
                                    > > or high speed quills. The belt driven quill would also have the
                                    > > advantage of light weight that would help in the ability to use a
                                    > > light weight pantograph for the letter engraving operations.
                                    > >
                                    > > Regards,
                                    > > Charles R. Patton
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > On 6/20/2013 3:12 PM, Pat wrote:
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Strangely enough I have been just looking into this. Jeremmy is
                                    > >> recovering from his near terminal illness and I would like to help
                                    > >> him make a few bucks. He wants to make wooden markers for funerals
                                    > >> and graves (a very big market in a bad AIDS area). This would be a
                                    > >> good tie in with his coffin making business. I found him plans for a
                                    > >> heavy duty wooden pantograph? that is the perfect size. Finding a
                                    > >> router is another matter. A web search turned up just 1 dealer in
                                    > >> Kenya who sold them.
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Remember that Jeremmy is a very special guy. He learned to use
                                    > >> Sketchup in just one day!
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Pat
                                    > >>
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • David G. LeVine
                                    ... Sorry, Steve, but Acme is a specific thread for Imperial dimensions, the Metric equivalent, trapezoidal, has a slightly different profile. See
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Jun 21, 2013
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                                      On 06/18/2013 11:17 PM, Steve Wan wrote:
                                      Speaking of square threads or acme threads, any idea where's the supplier?
                                      Having problems find it on the net.
                                      
                                      Note: Acme threads come in either inches or metric.
                                      
                                      Steve Wan

                                      Sorry, Steve, but Acme is a specific thread for Imperial dimensions, the Metric equivalent, trapezoidal, has a slightly different profile.  See http://www.roton.com/trapezoidal-lead-screws.aspx?line=Trapezoidal and http://www.roton.com/acme-lead-nav.aspx?line=Acme for a discussion.

                                      Since there are different classes and accuracies, as well as different surface hardnesses, I can't give you all the vendors, there are thousands.  Try going to Use-Enco.Com and looking for COMPONENTS    THREADED ROD & STUDS    ACME THREADED ROD, there are some 338 different sizes there.

                                      Dave  8{)

                                      --

                                      "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice."

                                      Bill Cosby
                                    • David G. LeVine
                                      ... If you are moving the wood, and not the spindle, a pretty beefy spindle is a good choice. Let s start with a 3,000 or 3,450 RPM motor (pretty high
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Jun 21, 2013
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                                        On 06/20/2013 11:44 PM, Bruce Bellows wrote:
                                        > Keep one thing in mind that a lot of wood found in Africa is going to
                                        > be very hard so very sharp cutters turning very fast may be required.
                                        >
                                        > Bruce

                                        If you are moving the wood, and not the spindle, a pretty beefy spindle
                                        is a good choice.

                                        Let's start with a 3,000 or 3,450 RPM motor (pretty high horsepower,
                                        maybe 1 HP) and two pair of 3.162:1 speed step up pulleys, giving
                                        30,000-34,500 RPM at the output with low noise. A simple 1/8" hole with
                                        a set screw (causing imbalance, a collet can be made later), will allow
                                        either dental "points" of Dremel type burrs which should cut well as
                                        long as the feeds are right. Lesser ratios will allow slower speeds.
                                        Real router bits with 1/8" shanks are not cheap, but are quite available.

                                        Please be aware that some African hardwood dust is toxic, a mask and/or
                                        a fume extractor is a wise choice.

                                        Dave 8{)

                                        --

                                        "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the
                                        advice."

                                        Bill Cosby
                                      • Nick Andrews
                                        Speaking of cheap sources of ACME-ish threaded rod, how about Harbor Fright (or better) C-clamps? They are usually on sale for half price and the 5 clamp has
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Jun 21, 2013
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                                          Speaking of cheap sources of ACME-ish threaded rod, how about Harbor Fright (or better) C-clamps?  They are usually on sale for half price and the 5" clamp has at least a 6" long threaded piece, plus I bet you could cut the clamp and have a ready-made 'nut' for it to weld onto a project or bracket.


                                          On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 9:10 PM, David G. LeVine <dlevine@...> wrote:
                                          On 06/18/2013 11:17 PM, Steve Wan wrote:
                                          Speaking of square threads or acme threads, any idea where's the supplier?
                                          Having problems find it on the net.
                                          
                                          Note: Acme threads come in either inches or metric.
                                          
                                          Steve Wan

                                          Sorry, Steve, but Acme is a specific thread for Imperial dimensions, the Metric equivalent, trapezoidal, has a slightly different profile.  See http://www.roton.com/trapezoidal-lead-screws.aspx?line=Trapezoidal and http://www.roton.com/acme-lead-nav.aspx?line=Acme for a discussion.

                                          Since there are different classes and accuracies, as well as different surface hardnesses, I can't give you all the vendors, there are thousands.  Try going to Use-Enco.Com and looking for COMPONENTS    THREADED ROD & STUDS    ACME THREADED ROD, there are some 338 different sizes there.

                                          Dave  8{)

                                          --

                                          "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice."

                                          Bill Cosby



                                          --
                                          Nick A

                                          "You know what I wish?  I wish that all the scum of the world had but a single throat, and I had my hands about it..."  Rorschach, 1975

                                          "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

                                          "Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names the streets after them." Bill Vaughan

                                          "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
                                        • Steve Wan
                                          Hi Dave Thanks! I discovered the differences earlier. Lucky did not buy it to swap Metric for Imperial nut for the leadscrew. Nick s idea getting a G-clamp and
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Jun 22, 2013
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                                            Hi Dave
                                             
                                            Thanks! I discovered the differences earlier. Lucky did not buy it to swap Metric for Imperial nut for the leadscrew. Nick's idea getting a G-clamp and cutting it. Usually leadscrews are far more longer unless a shorter one.
                                             
                                            Steve Wan

                                            On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Nick Andrews <nickjandrews@...> wrote:


                                            Speaking of cheap sources of ACME-ish threaded rod, how about Harbor Fright (or better) C-clamps?  They are usually on sale for half price and the 5" clamp has at least a 6" long threaded piece, plus I bet you could cut the clamp and have a ready-made 'nut' for it to weld onto a project or bracket.


                                            On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 9:10 PM, David G. LeVine <dlevine@...> wrote:
                                            On 06/18/2013 11:17 PM, Steve Wan wrote:
                                            Speaking of square threads or acme threads, any idea where's the supplier?
                                            Having problems find it on the net.
                                            
                                            Note: Acme threads come in either inches or metric.
                                            
                                            Steve Wan

                                            Sorry, Steve, but Acme is a specific thread for Imperial dimensions, the Metric equivalent, trapezoidal, has a slightly different profile.  See http://www.roton.com/trapezoidal-lead-screws.aspx?line=Trapezoidal and http://www.roton.com/acme-lead-nav.aspx?line=Acme for a discussion.

                                            Since there are different classes and accuracies, as well as different surface hardnesses, I can't give you all the vendors, there are thousands.  Try going to Use-Enco.Com and looking for COMPONENTS    THREADED ROD & STUDS    ACME THREADED ROD, there are some 338 different sizes there.

                                            Dave  8{)

                                            --

                                            "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice."

                                            Bill Cosby



                                            --
                                            Nick A

                                            "You know what I wish?  I wish that all the scum of the world had but a single throat, and I had my hands about it..."  Rorschach, 1975

                                            "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

                                            "Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names the streets after them." Bill Vaughan

                                            "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato



                                          • David G. LeVine
                                            ... For short sections, this sounds good. The accuracy will be pretty poor, however. Dave 8{) -- A word to the wise ain t necessary - it s the stupid ones
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Jun 22, 2013
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                                              On 06/21/2013 11:30 PM, Nick Andrews wrote:
                                              > Speaking of cheap sources of ACME-ish threaded rod, how about Harbor
                                              > Fright (or better) C-clamps? They are usually on sale for half price
                                              > and the 5" clamp has at least a 6" long threaded piece, plus I bet you
                                              > could cut the clamp and have a ready-made 'nut' for it to weld onto a
                                              > project or bracket.

                                              For short sections, this sounds good.

                                              The accuracy will be pretty poor, however.

                                              Dave 8{)

                                              --

                                              "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the
                                              advice."

                                              Bill Cosby
                                            • Nick Andrews
                                              Actually I was quite surprised at how tight the fit actually is. Not much wiggle in these clamps.
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Jun 22, 2013
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                                                Actually I was quite surprised at how tight the fit actually is.  Not much wiggle in these clamps.

                                                On Jun 22, 2013 2:26 PM, "David G. LeVine" <dlevine@...> wrote:
                                                 

                                                On 06/21/2013 11:30 PM, Nick Andrews wrote:
                                                > Speaking of cheap sources of ACME-ish threaded rod, how about Harbor
                                                > Fright (or better) C-clamps? They are usually on sale for half price
                                                > and the 5" clamp has at least a 6" long threaded piece, plus I bet you
                                                > could cut the clamp and have a ready-made 'nut' for it to weld onto a
                                                > project or bracket.

                                                For short sections, this sounds good.

                                                The accuracy will be pretty poor, however.

                                                Dave 8{)

                                                --

                                                "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the
                                                advice."

                                                Bill Cosby

                                              • Pierre Coueffin
                                                If you have a disk indicator with a long stroke, it might be interesting to measure how consistent the travel is per revolution of the screw. Also, measuring
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Jun 22, 2013
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                                                  If you have a disk indicator with a long stroke, it might be interesting to measure how consistent the travel is per revolution of the screw. Also, measuring the play along the axis could be useful.

                                                • Bruce Bellows
                                                  Anti backlash nuts can be used to eliminate backlash even on low precision acme thread if that is all that is required. A precision class acme thread will have
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Jun 24, 2013
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                                                    Anti backlash nuts can be used to eliminate backlash even on low precision acme thread if that is all that is required.

                                                    A precision class acme thread will have a tighter tolerance between the thread pitches.
                                                    For example  10tpi thread 
                                                    2G class has a tolerance of .0095
                                                    3G class has a tolerance of .0044
                                                    2G class has a tolerance of .0032

                                                    Bruce

                                                    On 6/23/2013 1:05 AM, Pierre Coueffin wrote:  

                                                    If you have a disk indicator with a long stroke, it might be interesting to measure how consistent the travel is per revolution of the screw. Also, measuring the play along the axis could be useful.

                                                  • Chris Tofu
                                                    ... Wow, aren t those tolerances huge!? Would definitely need a lot more accuracy to produce a diffraction grating. 100,000 or more threads per inch.
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Jun 24, 2013
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                                                      ------------------------------
                                                      On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 7:20 AM PDT Bruce Bellows wrote:

                                                      >A precision class acme thread will have a tighter tolerance between the thread pitches.
                                                      >For example 10tpi thread
                                                      >2G class has a tolerance of .0095
                                                      >3G class has a tolerance of .0044
                                                      >2G class has a tolerance of .0032

                                                      Wow, aren't those tolerances huge!? Would definitely need a lot more accuracy to produce a diffraction grating. 100,000 or more threads per inch.
                                                    • David G. LeVine
                                                      ... No, they are not. Differential accuracy is MUCH better with a preloaded nut. If you move a foot, you could see 0.01 error, while moving a few
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , Jun 25, 2013
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                                                        On 06/24/2013 11:36 AM, Chris Tofu wrote:
                                                        >> A precision class acme thread will have a tighter tolerance between the thread pitches.
                                                        >> >For example 10tpi thread
                                                        >> >2G class has a tolerance of .0095
                                                        >> >3G class has a tolerance of .0044
                                                        >> >2G class has a tolerance of .0032
                                                        > Wow, aren't those tolerances huge!? Would definitely need a lot more accuracy to produce a diffraction grating. 100,000 or more threads per inch.

                                                        No, they are not. Differential accuracy is MUCH better with a preloaded
                                                        nut. If you move a foot, you could see 0.01" error, while moving a few
                                                        thousandths would more likely be in the tenths or hundredths of a
                                                        thousandth range or smaller.

                                                        Dave 8{)

                                                        --

                                                        "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the
                                                        advice."

                                                        Bill Cosby
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