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rotating the engine

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  • kbs2244
    Useing the existing sprocket set p will not only give the ability to change shaft rotation but also shaft RPM just by changing sprocket size. This will allow
    Message 1 of 9 , May 6, 2013
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      Useing the existing sprocket set p will not only give the ability to change shaft rotation but also shaft RPM just by changing sprocket size.
      This will allow fine tuning to a specific prop configuration.
    • Pat Delany
      Really want to see how this is done in practice even though I can think of several neat ways to do it. A short chain drive would also handle slight
      Message 2 of 9 , May 6, 2013
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        Really want to see how this is done in practice even though I can think of several neat ways to do it.
        A short chain drive would also handle slight miss-alignment.
        I don't know a thing about the physics of air cooling motors. Would a m/c motor cool at slow speeds?
        A factory trained lawnmower mechanic once told me that much damage was done by mowing with a motor at less than top speed.

        We really need Bargemaster's pics uploaded to our photo section.

        pat


        From: kbs2244 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
        To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, May 6, 2013 11:42 AM
        Subject: [multimachine] rotating the engine

         
        Useing the existing sprocket set p will not only give the ability to change shaft rotation but also shaft RPM just by changing sprocket size.
        This will allow fine tuning to a specific prop configuration.



      • michael broadbent
        Hi Pat           It would appear I have a problem with my pictures but will continue to try. Basically they show  a fibre glass longtail  hull but
        Message 3 of 9 , May 7, 2013
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          Hi Pat
                    It would appear I have a problem with my pictures but will continue to try.
          Basically they show  a fibre glass longtail  hull but it was the  engine mount swivel
           the  which may be of interest  .Will keep on trying.
           
          Did find this which may be of some use but is much more sophisticated than  the normal
          everyday working longtail.
           
           
          From: Pat Delany <rigmatch@...>
          To: "multimachine@yahoogroups.com" <multimachine@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, 6 May 2013, 18:33
          Subject: Re: [multimachine] rotating the engine/Bargemaster



          Really want to see how this is done in practice even though I can think of several neat ways to do it.
          A short chain drive would also handle slight miss-alignment.
          I don't know a thing about the physics of air cooling motors. Would a m/c motor cool at slow speeds?
          A factory trained lawnmower mechanic once told me that much damage was done by mowing with a motor at less than top speed.

          We really need Bargemaster's pics uploaded to our photo section.

          pat

          From: kbs2244 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
          To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, May 6, 2013 11:42 AM
          Subject: [multimachine] rotating the engine

           
          Useing the existing sprocket set p will not only give the ability to change shaft rotation but also shaft RPM just by changing sprocket size.
          This will allow fine tuning to a specific prop configuration.







        • oldhermit
          ... Harold
          Message 4 of 9 , May 7, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            > A factory trained lawnmower mechanic once told me that much damage was done by mowing with a motor at less than top speed.
            >
            > pat
            >
            > I suspect an infared thermometer would verify or discredit that. I'd have checked it yesterday, when I cut the grass, except mine took a bath and never recovered.
            Harold
            > ________________________________
            > From: kbs2244 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
            > To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Monday, May 6, 2013 11:42 AM
            > Subject: [multimachine] rotating the engine
            >
            >
            >
            >  
            > Useing the existing sprocket set p will not only give the ability to change shaft rotation but also shaft RPM just by changing sprocket size.
            > This will allow fine tuning to a specific prop configuration.
            >
          • michael broadbent
            Hi  Pat             attached is drawing of the simple type of mounting used .2 inch angle is ideal. The part marked A is normal fitted to a
            Message 5 of 9 , May 7, 2013
            • 1 Attachment
            • 211 KB
            Hi  Pat
                        attached is drawing of the simple type of mounting used .2 inch angle is ideal.
            The part marked A is normal fitted to a bored  wooden cross beam although some just bore a snug
            fitting hole and forget the metal insert , No fancy thrust bearings are used  just normal flat washers liberal greased
            The utube clip shows a throttle control but I have noticed a lot use the sprung load twist grip from a motor bike which means the engine can be set to stall if anything happens to the driver,
                 Reading some of the posts to day I remembered the shrimp farms in Thailand use a small engine to aerate the water it turns a length of pipe with short cross arms that work like  water wheel in reverse .these engines run all day and night 
            at a constant speed.
              Fingers crossed the attachment works
             
            Mike
            From: Pat Delany <rigmatch@...>
            To: "multimachine@yahoogroups.com" <multimachine@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, 6 May 2013, 18:33
            Subject: Re: [multimachine] rotating the engine/Bargemaster



            Really want to see how this is done in practice even though I can think of several neat ways to do it.
            A short chain drive would also handle slight miss-alignment.
            I don't know a thing about the physics of air cooling motors. Would a m/c motor cool at slow speeds?
            A factory trained lawnmower mechanic once told me that much damage was done by mowing with a motor at less than top speed.

            We really need Bargemaster's pics uploaded to our photo section.

            pat

            From: kbs2244 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
            To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, May 6, 2013 11:42 AM
            Subject: [multimachine] rotating the engine

             
            Useing the existing sprocket set p will not only give the ability to change shaft rotation but also shaft RPM just by changing sprocket size.
            This will allow fine tuning to a specific prop configuration.







          • Pat Delany
            Would you try to draw the whole thing (sprocket drive, inner, outer shaft etc.) Pat ________________________________ From: michael broadbent
            Message 6 of 9 , May 7, 2013
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              Would you try to draw the whole thing (sprocket drive, inner, outer shaft etc.)

              Pat


              From: michael broadbent <bargemaster24@...>
              To: "multimachine@yahoogroups.com" <multimachine@yahoogroups.com>
              Cc: "BrdbMc@..." <BrdbMc@...>
              Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2013 3:31 PM
              Subject: Re: [multimachine] rotating the engine/Bargemaster [1 Attachment]

               
              Hi  Pat
                          attached is drawing of the simple type of mounting used .2 inch angle is ideal.
              The part marked A is normal fitted to a bored  wooden cross beam although some just bore a snug
              fitting hole and forget the metal insert , No fancy thrust bearings are used  just normal flat washers liberal greased
              The utube clip shows a throttle control but I have noticed a lot use the sprung load twist grip from a motor bike which means the engine can be set to stall if anything happens to the driver,
                   Reading some of the posts to day I remembered the shrimp farms in Thailand use a small engine to aerate the water it turns a length of pipe with short cross arms that work like  water wheel in reverse .these engines run all day and night 
              at a constant speed.
                Fingers crossed the attachment works
               
              Mike
              From: Pat Delany <rigmatch@...>
              To: "multimachine@yahoogroups.com" <multimachine@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, 6 May 2013, 18:33
              Subject: Re: [multimachine] rotating the engine/Bargemaster



              Really want to see how this is done in practice even though I can think of several neat ways to do it.
              A short chain drive would also handle slight miss-alignment.
              I don't know a thing about the physics of air cooling motors. Would a m/c motor cool at slow speeds?
              A factory trained lawnmower mechanic once told me that much damage was done by mowing with a motor at less than top speed.

              We really need Bargemaster's pics uploaded to our photo section.

              pat

              From: kbs2244 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
              To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, May 6, 2013 11:42 AM
              Subject: [multimachine] rotating the engine

               
              Useing the existing sprocket set p will not only give the ability to change shaft rotation but also shaft RPM just by changing sprocket size.
              This will allow fine tuning to a specific prop configuration.









            • michael broadbent
              Hi Pat              Just a first attempt to put ideas to paper .I am trying to keep in mind the limitations that exist locally.  Any input from 
              Message 7 of 9 , May 8, 2013
              Hi Pat
                           Just a first attempt to put ideas to paper .I am trying to keep in mind the limitations that exist
              locally.  Any input from  others is all ways  welcome.
               
              Will do more tomorrow
               
              Mike
               

              From: Pat Delany <rigmatch@...>
              To: "multimachine@yahoogroups.com" <multimachine@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, 8 May 2013, 1:28
              Subject: [multimachine] Mike, a big favor



              Would you try to draw the whole thing (sprocket drive, inner, outer shaft etc.)

              Pat

              From: michael broadbent <bargemaster24@...>
              To: "multimachine@yahoogroups.com" <multimachine@yahoogroups.com>
              Cc: "BrdbMc@..." <BrdbMc@...>
              Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2013 3:31 PM
              Subject: Re: [multimachine] rotating the engine/Bargemaster [1 Attachment]

               
              Hi  Pat
                          attached is drawing of the simple type of mounting used .2 inch angle is ideal.
              The part marked A is normal fitted to a bored  wooden cross beam although some just bore a snug
              fitting hole and forget the metal insert , No fancy thrust bearings are used  just normal flat washers liberal greased
              The utube clip shows a throttle control but I have noticed a lot use the sprung load twist grip from a motor bike which means the engine can be set to stall if anything happens to the driver,
                   Reading some of the posts to day I remembered the shrimp farms in Thailand use a small engine to aerate the water it turns a length of pipe with short cross arms that work like  water wheel in reverse .these engines run all day and night 
              at a constant speed.
                Fingers crossed the attachment works
               
              Mike
              From: Pat Delany <rigmatch@...>
              To: "multimachine@yahoogroups.com" <multimachine@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, 6 May 2013, 18:33
              Subject: Re: [multimachine] rotating the engine/Bargemaster



              Really want to see how this is done in practice even though I can think of several neat ways to do it.
              A short chain drive would also handle slight miss-alignment.
              I don't know a thing about the physics of air cooling motors. Would a m/c motor cool at slow speeds?
              A factory trained lawnmower mechanic once told me that much damage was done by mowing with a motor at less than top speed.

              We really need Bargemaster's pics uploaded to our photo section.

              pat

              From: kbs2244 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
              To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, May 6, 2013 11:42 AM
              Subject: [multimachine] rotating the engine

               
              Useing the existing sprocket set p will not only give the ability to change shaft rotation but also shaft RPM just by changing sprocket size.
              This will allow fine tuning to a specific prop configuration.













            • HB
              Just provide a mounted jack shaft assembly under the motor base.  One end of the jack shaft, on the same end as the motor output shaft, contains a sprocket
              Message 8 of 9 , May 8, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Just provide a mounted jack shaft assembly under the motor base.
                 One end of the jack shaft, on the same end as the motor output shaft, contains a sprocket matched to the sprocket on the output shaft of the motor. ( The sprocket ratio would be determined by the motor's most efficient RPM and the selected propeller configuration.. )
                If you have a CCW propeller and a CCW motor, the propeller shaft would be powered by the jack shaft from the same end as the motor output shaft. (also same end where the sprocket is installed on the jack shaft))
                If you have a CW propeller and a CCW motor, the propeller shaft would have to be powered from the other end opposite the sprocket end of the jack shaft. ( the motor output shaft would be oriented toward the forward end of the boat)

                The jack shaft/sprocket system provides two purposes, first to be able to achieve the required rotation for the propeller, and second to be able to have the most efficient propeller and motor rotational speed matching.



                From: michael broadbent <bargemaster24@...>
                To: "multimachine@yahoogroups.com" <multimachine@yahoogroups.com>
                Cc: "BrdbMc@..." <BrdbMc@...>
                Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2013 11:58 AM
                Subject: Re: [multimachine] Mike, a big favor [1 Attachment]

                 
                Hi Pat
                             Just a first attempt to put ideas to paper .I am trying to keep in mind the limitations that exist
                locally.  Any input from  others is all ways  welcome.
                 
                Will do more tomorrow
                 
                Mike
                 

                From: Pat Delany <rigmatch@...>
                To: "multimachine@yahoogroups.com" <multimachine@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Wednesday, 8 May 2013, 1:28
                Subject: [multimachine] Mike, a big favor



                Would you try to draw the whole thing (sprocket drive, inner, outer shaft etc.)

                Pat

                From: michael broadbent <bargemaster24@...>
                To: "multimachine@yahoogroups.com" <multimachine@yahoogroups.com>
                Cc: "BrdbMc@..." <BrdbMc@...>
                Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2013 3:31 PM
                Subject: Re: [multimachine] rotating the engine/Bargemaster [1 Attachment]

                 
                Hi  Pat
                            attached is drawing of the simple type of mounting used .2 inch angle is ideal.
                The part marked A is normal fitted to a bored  wooden cross beam although some just bore a snug
                fitting hole and forget the metal insert , No fancy thrust bearings are used  just normal flat washers liberal greased
                The utube clip shows a throttle control but I have noticed a lot use the sprung load twist grip from a motor bike which means the engine can be set to stall if anything happens to the driver,
                     Reading some of the posts to day I remembered the shrimp farms in Thailand use a small engine to aerate the water it turns a length of pipe with short cross arms that work like  water wheel in reverse .these engines run all day and night 
                at a constant speed.
                  Fingers crossed the attachment works
                 
                Mike
                From: Pat Delany <rigmatch@...>
                To: "multimachine@yahoogroups.com" <multimachine@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, 6 May 2013, 18:33
                Subject: Re: [multimachine] rotating the engine/Bargemaster



                Really want to see how this is done in practice even though I can think of several neat ways to do it.
                A short chain drive would also handle slight miss-alignment.
                I don't know a thing about the physics of air cooling motors. Would a m/c motor cool at slow speeds?
                A factory trained lawnmower mechanic once told me that much damage was done by mowing with a motor at less than top speed.

                We really need Bargemaster's pics uploaded to our photo section.

                pat

                From: kbs2244 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, May 6, 2013 11:42 AM
                Subject: [multimachine] rotating the engine

                 
                Useing the existing sprocket set p will not only give the ability to change shaft rotation but also shaft RPM just by changing sprocket size.
                This will allow fine tuning to a specific prop configuration.















              • David G. LeVine
                ... Be sure to have guards on the chain, getting stuff caught can be bad, having chain chunks flying at high RPMs can make for an uncomfortable trip. Timing
                Message 9 of 9 , May 9, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  On 05/08/2013 04:25 PM, HB wrote:
                  > The jack shaft/sprocket system provides two purposes, first to be able
                  > to achieve the required rotation for the propeller, and second to be
                  > able to have the most efficient propeller and motor rotational speed
                  > matching.

                  Be sure to have guards on the chain, getting stuff caught can be bad,
                  having chain chunks flying at high RPMs can make for an uncomfortable trip.

                  Timing belts are better (they don't make as much noise, they don't
                  require lube, etc.), but the sprockets are harder to get (although for
                  1:1, 2:2 AND 1:2 ratios timing gears work well) and they have lower
                  losses. Poly-v (aka multi-rib, etc.) are a really good choice (low
                  losses, low cost, etc.), but need tensioners and the pulleys must be
                  machined (with an MM, it is pretty easy.) Timing belts are used instead
                  of timing chains to lower costs and improve efficiency, poly-v belts are
                  used for the same reasons. Tensioners are not cheap, but prolong belt
                  life, automotive belts should be fine up to about 7 HP, the narrow
                  Toyota belts should be good to 3 HP. CV belts are good for 100+ HP with
                  long life.

                  Dave 8{)

                  --

                  "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the
                  advice."

                  Bill Cosby
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