Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Research needed - Boat propulsion

Expand Messages
  • greg123452003
    Before you go designing a propulsion system, look at the type of boat being used. Coming up with a design that won t fit the traditional boat is simply a waste
    Message 1 of 20 , Apr 24, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Before you go designing a propulsion system, look at the type of boat being used. Coming up with a design that won't fit the traditional boat is simply a waste of time as people are not going to build a new boat to fit in with your design. Google "boats, Lake Victoria", select "Images" and you'll see that traditional boats are generally double ended. That greatly affects the design that will be acceptable.
    • Eggleston Lance
      Did that. Amongst the others, there is a pic of a guy driving a long tail. The banana boat shape is common in Thailand, and they have many long tails there.
      Message 2 of 20 , Apr 24, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Did that.
        Amongst the others, there is a pic of a guy driving a long tail.
        The " banana boat" shape is common in Thailand,
        and they have many long tails there.

        You mount the engine on a platform
        across the gunwales inside the transom.
        It sits high and pivots to steer the boat.

        lance
        ++++

        On Apr 24, 2013, at 3:48 AM, greg123452003 wrote:

        Google "boats, Lake Victoria", select "Images" and you'll see that traditional boats are generally double ended.

      • HB
        Any design that won t fit anything is not good. A smart designer should always strive to make his work conform to what it is being designed for. Any well
        Message 3 of 20 , Apr 24, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Any design that won't fit anything is not good.
          A smart designer should always strive to make his work conform to what it is being designed for.
          Any well thought-out design of a boat will work in Lake Victoria even if it's not of the traditional shape.



          From: greg123452003 <greg123452003@...>
          To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 12:48 AM
          Subject: [multimachine] Re: Research needed - Boat propulsion

           

          Before you go designing a propulsion system, look at the type of boat being used. Coming up with a design that won't fit the traditional boat is simply a waste of time as people are not going to build a new boat to fit in with your design. Google "boats, Lake Victoria", select "Images" and you'll see that traditional boats are generally double endebeigd. That greatly affects the design that will be acceptable.



        • chris green
          Some years ago a group of boatbuilders went to that area and held workshops on how to build in the cedar strip style. The reason double enders are common is
          Message 4 of 20 , Apr 24, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Some years ago a group of boatbuilders went to that area and held workshops on how to build in the cedar strip style. The reason double enders are common is because the tradition is that boats there are built by hollowing out logs.
            You use what you've got.

            The drawback to the cedar strip style construction is the cost of the fibreglass matting, epoxy coatings, and the marine varnish to prevent the epoxy from breaking down in UV light.

            But, if the builders could obtain sawn planking they could build boats in a style other than the double-enders, and come up with local designs as time passes. In most cases, planked boats use less wood than dugouts do.
            Of course, the waste from making dugouts is usable for cooking with...

            Boatbuilders in Yemen use edge-joined planking, and Yemen is not known for having many trees...
            As a generalization, planked or strip-built boats would use less wood.

            Lake Victoria is already being over-fished, partly because the algae/ weed growth the lake now experiences is reducing fish populations.

            Having motorized boats could give some people a better income for a short time but the fuel will also cost a lot more. Not much point in working just to buy more imported gasoline.
            And in time the people without motorboats will have less fish to catch as their share, which would aggravate the situation.

            In the 1970s, someone got the bright idea to import tractors and harvesting machines into east Africa so people in one region could grow more grain. That worked for a while, but it wasn't long until the tractors were all rusting beside the fields for lack of parts and tires, and difficulties obtaining fuel. (Diesel was over $5 US/ gallon in Rhodesia when it was something like 75 cents/ gal in North America. ). The soils there are generaly deplete from centuries of poor farming practices. When fertilizer can be obtained (read, 'donated') production goes up. So can the problems from run-off into the watersheds. (weeds, algae growth, and fish-killing oxygen starvation in the lakes...)

            It's a complex problem all around, and there are no easy solutions.

            Cheers,

            Chris Green.



            From: HB <scfpigs@...>
            To: "multimachine@yahoogroups.com" <multimachine@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 8:00:14 PM
            Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: Research needed - Boat propulsion

             
            Any design that won't fit anything is not good.
            A smart designer should always strive to make his work conform to what it is being designed for.
            Any well thought-out design of a boat will work in Lake Victoria even if it's not of the traditional shape.



            From: greg123452003 <greg123452003@...>
            To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 12:48 AM
            Subject: [multimachine] Re: Research needed - Boat propulsion

             

            Before you go designing a propulsion system, look at the type of boat being used. Coming up with a design that won't fit the traditional boat is simply a waste of time as people are not going to build a new boat to fit in with your design. Google "boats, Lake Victoria", select "Images" and you'll see that traditional boats are generally double endebeigd. That greatly affects the design that will be acceptable.





          • Richard Underwood
            I rode in some of the long tail boats when I was on R&R in Bankok in 1969. They were used as water taxis. The engine pivot was mounted on one gunwale roughly
            Message 5 of 20 , Apr 24, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              I rode in some of the long tail boats when I was on R&R in Bankok in 1969. They were used as water taxis. The engine pivot was mounted on one gunwale roughly equal distant from the bow and the stern. The boats were banana shaped so either end could be the bow by raising the propeller out of the water and pivoting it around to the other end of the boat.

              This was a very simple but functional design, no reverse gear required. Also they never needed to turn the boat around, just stop at the dock then turn the propeller to the other end of the boat and drive away always going forward. My observation was that it would be very unwise to be backing up in a boat in Bankok. There was a lot of traffic on the waterways and they drove on the water just like on the land. It was amazing how fast they could throttle down, swing the propeller up and around and rev the engine up to avoid a collision.

              It was also pretty exciting to be sitting in a small boat, going way to fast when suddenly a spinning propeller is coming towards you. I didn't see any stops to control the maximum swing, it was a major miracle the sides of the boats were intact.

              Best wishes,
              Dick Underwood


              On 04/24/2013 01:33 PM, Eggleston Lance wrote:
               

              Did that.

              Amongst the others, there is a pic of a guy driving a long tail.
              The " banana boat" shape is common in Thailand,
              and they have many long tails there.

              You mount the engine on a platform
              across the gunwales inside the transom.
              It sits high and pivots to steer the boat.

              lance
              ++++

              On Apr 24, 2013, at 3:48 AM, greg123452003 wrote:

              Google "boats, Lake Victoria", select "Images" and you'll see that traditional boats are generally double ended.


            • oldhermit
              Dick, I did a Google search for Thai Longtail and the ones I found, seemed to have the engines mounted at the rear. I also expected them to be powered by auto
              Message 6 of 20 , Apr 25, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Dick,
                I did a Google search for Thai Longtail and the ones I found, seemed to have the engines mounted at the rear. I also expected them to be powered by auto engines and they had Chinese air cooled engines. Things must have changed since '69 and the Bond film.

                --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Richard Underwood <richardu312@...> wrote:
                >
                > I rode in some of the long tail boats when I was on R&R in Bankok in
                > 1969. They were used as water taxis. The engine pivot was mounted on one
                > gunwale roughly equal distant from the bow and the stern. The boats were
                > banana shaped so either end could be the bow by raising the propeller
                > out of the water and pivoting it around to the other end of the boat.
                >
                > This was a very simple but functional design, no reverse gear required.
                > Also they never needed to turn the boat around, just stop at the dock
                > then turn the propeller to the other end of the boat and drive away
                > always going forward. My observation was that it would be very unwise to
                > be backing up in a boat in Bankok. There was a lot of traffic on the
                > waterways and they drove on the water just like on the land. It was
                > amazing how fast they could throttle down, swing the propeller up and
                > around and rev the engine up to avoid a collision.
                >
                > It was also pretty exciting to be sitting in a small boat, going way to
                > fast when suddenly a spinning propeller is coming towards you. I didn't
                > see any stops to control the maximum swing, it was a major miracle the
                > sides of the boats were intact.
                >
                > Best wishes,
                > Dick Underwood
                >
                >
                > On 04/24/2013 01:33 PM, Eggleston Lance wrote:
                > >
                > > Did that.
                > >
                > > Amongst the others, there is a pic of a guy driving a long tail.
                > > The " banana boat" shape is common in Thailand,
                > > and they have many long tails there.
                > >
                > > You mount the engine on a platform
                > > across the gunwales inside the transom.
                > > It sits high and pivots to steer the boat.
                > >
                > > lance
                > > ++++
                > >
                > > On Apr 24, 2013, at 3:48 AM, greg123452003 wrote:
                > >
                > >> Google "boats, Lake Victoria", select "Images" and you'll see that
                > >> traditional boats are generally double ended.
                > >
                > >
                >
              • Pat Delany
                I noticed that there a lot of traditional looking boats that had outboard motor type transoms (but no motors). I found a fairly recent report that said that
                Message 7 of 20 , Apr 25, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  I noticed that there a lot of traditional looking boats that had outboard motor type transoms (but no motors). I found a fairly recent report that said that 65% of boats on the lake were still paddle powered.

                  Haven't heard back from Jeremmy about this, maybe still sick or maybe in a state of shock over the idea.

                  Pat


                  From: HB <scfpigs@...>
                  To: "multimachine@yahoogroups.com" <multimachine@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 10:00 PM
                  Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: Research needed - Boat propulsion

                   
                  Any design that won't fit anything is not good.
                  A smart designer should always strive to make his work conform to what it is being designed for.
                  Any well thought-out design of a boat will work in Lake Victoria even if it's not of the traditional shape.



                  From: greg123452003 <greg123452003@...>
                  To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 12:48 AM
                  Subject: [multimachine] Re: Research needed - Boat propulsion

                   

                  Before you go designing a propulsion system, look at the type of boat being used. Coming up with a design that won't fit the traditional boat is simply a waste of time as people are not going to build a new boat to fit in with your design. Google "boats, Lake Victoria", select "Images" and you'll see that traditional boats are generally double endebeigd. That greatly affects the design that will be acceptable.





                • michael broadbent
                  Hi,    Having  travelled in a few longtails  there seem to be different types  using different power units .The fisher men seam to favour Honda  and
                  Message 8 of 20 , Apr 25, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi,
                       Having  travelled in a few longtails  there seem to be different types  using
                    different power units .The fisher men seam to favour Honda  and after the tsunam
                    a group from Honda marine  were helping locals strip and repair the engines  this was in Ko Lanta.
                    Up in Chantbri the boats had V6 engines and travelled at speeds to keep you pressed back in your seat.
                    Using the large inter island car ferry the same idea as used by the longtails 
                    mounted two 6cylinder diesel mounted amidships with the prop entering at about 30 degrees did away with stern gland .
                     
                    barge 

                    From: oldhermit <orwhut@...>
                    To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, 25 April 2013, 10:40
                    Subject: [multimachine] Re: Research needed - Boat propulsion

                    Dick,
                    I did a Google search for Thai Longtail and the ones I found, seemed to have the engines mounted at the rear.  I also expected them to be powered by auto engines and they had Chinese air cooled engines.  Things must have changed since '69 and the Bond film.

                    --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Richard Underwood <richardu312@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I rode in some of the long tail boats when I was on R&R in Bankok in
                    > 1969. They were used as water taxis. The engine pivot was mounted on one
                    > gunwale roughly equal distant from the bow and the stern. The boats were
                    > banana shaped so either end could be the bow by raising the propeller
                    > out of the water and pivoting it around to the other end of the boat.
                    >
                    > This was a very simple but functional design, no reverse gear required.
                    > Also they never needed to turn the boat around, just stop at the dock
                    > then turn the propeller to the other end of the boat and drive away
                    > always going forward. My observation was that it would be very unwise to
                    > be backing up in a boat in Bankok. There was a lot of traffic on the
                    > waterways and they drove on the water just like on the land. It was
                    > amazing how fast they could throttle down, swing the propeller up and
                    > around and rev the engine up to avoid a collision.
                    >
                    > It was also pretty exciting to be sitting in a small boat, going way to
                    > fast when suddenly a spinning propeller is coming towards you. I didn't
                    > see any stops to control the maximum swing, it was a major miracle the
                    > sides of the boats were intact.
                    >
                    > Best wishes,
                    > Dick Underwood
                    >
                    >
                    > On 04/24/2013 01:33 PM, Eggleston Lance wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Did that.
                    > >
                    > > Amongst the others, there is a pic of a guy driving a long tail.
                    > > The " banana boat" shape is common in Thailand,
                    > > and they have many long tails there.
                    > >
                    > > You mount the engine on a platform
                    > > across the gunwales inside the transom.
                    > > It sits high and pivots to steer the boat.
                    > >
                    > > lance
                    > > ++++
                    > >
                    > > On Apr 24, 2013, at 3:48 AM, greg123452003 wrote:
                    > >
                    > >> Google "boats, Lake Victoria", select "Images" and you'll see that
                    > >> traditional boats are generally double ended.
                    > >
                    > >
                    >




                    ------------------------------------

                    -------------
                    We have a sister site for files and pictures dedicated to concrete machine framed machine tools. You will find a great deal of information about concrete based machines and the inventor of the concrete frame lathe, Lucian Ingraham Yeomans. Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Multimachine-Concrete-Machine-Tools/

                    Also visit the Joseph V. Romig group for even more concrete tool construction, shop notes, stories, and wisdom from the early 20th Century.
                    http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/romig_designs/
                    -------------Yahoo! Groups Links

                    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/multimachine/

                    <*> Your email settings:
                        Individual Email | Traditional

                    <*> To change settings online go to:
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/multimachine/join
                        (Yahoo! ID required)

                    <*> To change settings via email:
                        multimachine-digest@yahoogroups.com
                        multimachine-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

                    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        multimachine-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



                  • Pat Delany
                    Thank you barge Always best to learn from someone who has been there and done that! What Jeremmy wants is a way to use a 125cc motorcycle engine to power a
                    Message 9 of 20 , Apr 25, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thank you barge
                      Always best to learn from someone who has been there and done that! What Jeremmy wants is a way to use a 125cc motorcycle engine to power a boat. The longtail setup seems to me (what ever that is worth) easiest to make since it needs only a lathe and a welder (one in his village). My big question is about cooling. A jackshaft and fan would be an obvious choice but adds much difficulty to construction. My question is this: If the motor was high enough to be in the airstream and had some added sheet metal to act as an airscoop, could it be kept cool enough to work?

                      Pat


                      From: michael broadbent <bargemaster24@...>
                      To: "multimachine@yahoogroups.com" <multimachine@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 2:29 PM
                      Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: Research needed - Boat propulsion

                       
                      Hi,
                         Having  travelled in a few longtails  there seem to be different types  using
                      different power units .The fisher men seam to favour Honda  and after the tsunam
                      a group from Honda marine  were helping locals strip and repair the engines  this was in Ko Lanta.
                      Up in Chantbri the boats had V6 engines and travelled at speeds to keep you pressed back in your seat.
                      Using the large inter island car ferry the same idea as used by the longtails 
                      mounted two 6cylinder diesel mounted amidships with the prop entering at about 30 degrees did away with stern gland .
                       
                      barge 

                      From: oldhermit <orwhut@...>
                      To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, 25 April 2013, 10:40
                      Subject: [multimachine] Re: Research needed - Boat propulsion

                      Dick,
                      I did a Google search for Thai Longtail and the ones I found, seemed to have the engines mounted at the rear.  I also expected them to be powered by auto engines and they had Chinese air cooled engines.  Things must have changed since '69 and the Bond film.

                      --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Richard Underwood <richardu312@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I rode in some of the long tail boats when I was on R&R in Bankok in
                      > 1969. They were used as water taxis. The engine pivot was mounted on one
                      > gunwale roughly equal distant from the bow and the stern. The boats were
                      > banana shaped so either end could be the bow by raising the propeller
                      > out of the water and pivoting it around to the other end of the boat.
                      >
                      > This was a very simple but functional design, no reverse gear required.
                      > Also they never needed to turn the boat around, just stop at the dock
                      > then turn the propeller to the other end of the boat and drive away
                      > always going forward. My observation was that it would be very unwise to
                      > be backing up in a boat in Bankok. There was a lot of traffic on the
                      > waterways and they drove on the water just like on the land. It was
                      > amazing how fast they could throttle down, swing the propeller up and
                      > around and rev the engine up to avoid a collision.
                      >
                      > It was also pretty exciting to be sitting in a small boat, going way to
                      > fast when suddenly a spinning propeller is coming towards you. I didn't
                      > see any stops to control the maximum swing, it was a major miracle the
                      > sides of the boats were intact.
                      >
                      > Best wishes,
                      > Dick Underwood
                      >
                      >
                      > On 04/24/2013 01:33 PM, Eggleston Lance wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Did that.
                      > >
                      > > Amongst the others, there is a pic of a guy driving a long tail.
                      > > The " banana boat" shape is common in Thailand,
                      > > and they have many long tails there.
                      > >
                      > > You mount the engine on a platform
                      > > across the gunwales inside the transom.
                      > > It sits high and pivots to steer the boat.
                      > >
                      > > lance
                      > > ++++
                      > >
                      > > On Apr 24, 2013, at 3:48 AM, greg123452003 wrote:
                      > >
                      > >> Google "boats, Lake Victoria", select "Images" and you'll see that
                      > >> traditional boats are generally double ended.
                      > >
                      > >
                      >




                      ------------------------------------

                      -------------
                      We have a sister site for files and pictures dedicated to concrete machine framed machine tools. You will find a great deal of information about concrete based machines and the inventor of the concrete frame lathe, Lucian Ingraham Yeomans. Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Multimachine-Concrete-Machine-Tools/

                      Also visit the Joseph V. Romig group for even more concrete tool construction, shop notes, stories, and wisdom from the early 20th Century.
                      http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/romig_designs/
                      -------------Yahoo! Groups Links

                      <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/multimachine/

                      <*> Your email settings:
                          Individual Email | Traditional

                      <*> To change settings online go to:
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/multimachine/join
                          (Yahoo! ID required)

                      <*> To change settings via email:
                          multimachine-digest@yahoogroups.com
                          multimachine-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

                      <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          multimachine-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                      <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





                    • oldhermit
                      So, the auto engine powered still exist. I was guessing the cost of fuel caused them to die out. Harold
                      Message 10 of 20 , Apr 25, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        So, the auto engine powered still exist. I was guessing the cost of fuel caused them to die out.
                        Harold

                        --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, michael broadbent <bargemaster24@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi,
                        >    Having  travelled in a few longtails� there seem to be different types� using
                        > different power units .The fisher men seam to favour Honda� and after the tsunam
                        > a group from Honda marine� were helping locals strip and repair the engines� this was in Ko Lanta.
                        > Up in Chantbri the boats had V6 engines and travelled at speeds to keep you pressed back in your seat.
                        > Using the large inter island car ferry the same idea as used by the longtails�
                        > mounted two 6cylinder diesel mounted amidships with the prop entering at about 30 degrees did away with stern gland�.
                        > �
                        > barge�
                        >
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: oldhermit <orwhut@...>
                        > To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Thursday, 25 April 2013, 10:40
                        > Subject: [multimachine] Re: Research needed - Boat propulsion
                        >
                        >
                        > Dick,
                        > I did a Google search for Thai Longtail and the ones I found, seemed to have the engines mounted at the rear.� I also expected them to be powered by auto engines and they had Chinese air cooled engines.� Things must have changed since '69 and the Bond film.
                        >
                        > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Richard Underwood <richardu312@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I rode in some of the long tail boats when I was on R&R in Bankok in
                        > > 1969. They were used as water taxis. The engine pivot was mounted on one
                        > > gunwale roughly equal distant from the bow and the stern. The boats were
                        > > banana shaped so either end could be the bow by raising the propeller
                        > > out of the water and pivoting it around to the other end of the boat.
                        > >
                        > > This was a very simple but functional design, no reverse gear required.
                        > > Also they never needed to turn the boat around, just stop at the dock
                        > > then turn the propeller to the other end of the boat and drive away
                        > > always going forward. My observation was that it would be very unwise to
                        > > be backing up in a boat in Bankok. There was a lot of traffic on the
                        > > waterways and they drove on the water just like on the land. It was
                        > > amazing how fast they could throttle down, swing the propeller up and
                        > > around and rev the engine up to avoid a collision.
                        > >
                        > > It was also pretty exciting to be sitting in a small boat, going way to
                        > > fast when suddenly a spinning propeller is coming towards you. I didn't
                        > > see any stops to control the maximum swing, it was a major miracle the
                        > > sides of the boats were intact.
                        > >
                        > > Best wishes,
                        > > Dick Underwood
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > On 04/24/2013 01:33 PM, Eggleston Lance wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Did that.
                        > > >
                        > > > Amongst the others, there is a pic of a guy driving a long tail.
                        > > > The " banana boat" shape is common in Thailand,
                        > > > and they have many long tails there.
                        > > >
                        > > > You mount the engine on a platform
                        > > > across the gunwales inside the transom.
                        > > > It sits high and pivots to steer the boat.
                        > > >
                        > > > lance
                        > > > ++++
                        > > >
                        > > > On Apr 24, 2013, at 3:48 AM, greg123452003 wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >> Google "boats, Lake Victoria", select "Images" and you'll see that
                        > > >> traditional boats are generally double ended.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > -------------
                        > We have a sister site for files and pictures dedicated to concrete machine framed machine tools. You will find a great deal of information about concrete based machines and the inventor of the concrete frame lathe, Lucian Ingraham Yeomans. Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Multimachine-Concrete-Machine-Tools/
                        >
                        > Also visit the Joseph V. Romig group for even more concrete tool construction, shop notes, stories, and wisdom from the early 20th Century.
                        > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/romig_designs/
                        > -------------Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > � � http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                      • Charles Mitchard
                        a couple of links that may be of help- http://robnoxious.wordpress.com/2008/09/19/building-plywood-pontoons-out-of-scrap/
                        Message 11 of 20 , Apr 25, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                        • pokerbacken
                          work, uhm, yes, BUT (always that word), a boat designed for the pacific is actually suboptimal for even the Mediterranean, not to mention a fresh water lake,
                          Message 12 of 20 , Apr 26, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            work, uhm, yes,
                            BUT (always that word), a boat designed for the pacific is actually suboptimal for even the Mediterranean, not to mention a fresh water lake, not by much but enough to affect mileage, loadbearing and top speed among other things.
                            one reason for this is that the water has different density, another is that the swells and waves differ in wavelenght and steepness... but as you said most good designs will work decently.

                            --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, HB <scfpigs@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Any design that won't fit anything is not good.
                            > A smart designer should always strive to make his work conform to what it is being designed for.
                            > Any well thought-out design of a boat will work in Lake Victoria even if it's not of the traditional shape.
                          • oldhermit
                            Good finds, Charles. The bottom link indicates that they use 150cc motorcycle engines so, we know they ll work. Harold
                            Message 13 of 20 , Apr 26, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Good finds, Charles. The bottom link indicates that they use 150cc motorcycle engines so, we know they'll work.
                              Harold

                              --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Charles Mitchard <charlesmitchard@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > a couple of links that may be of help-
                              > http://robnoxious.wordpress.com/2008/09/19/building-plywood-pontoons-out-of-scrap/
                              > http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/post-tsunami/10m-thai-long-tail-8144.html
                              > and just for fun=
                              > http://www.john-tom.com/Klong16/LongTail.html
                              >
                            • David G. LeVine
                              ... If you look at a lawn mower, the fan is pretty simple and mounts on the crankshaft. The shrouding is not that complex. The real question is how cumbersome
                              Message 14 of 20 , Apr 26, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                On 04/25/2013 03:55 PM, Pat Delany wrote:
                                My question is this: If the motor was high enough to be in the airstream and had some added sheet metal to act as an airscoop, could it be kept cool enough to work?

                                If you look at a lawn mower, the fan is pretty simple and mounts on the crankshaft.  The shrouding is not that complex.

                                The real question is how cumbersome would it get.  If it needs a scoop 3 meters by 3 meters, it won't be very useful, if you look at the Thai racing boats, they run an air cooled 2 cycle engine with no additional cooling, but they run REALLY fast.  How fast will this boat need to go?

                                Dave  8{)

                                --


                                "Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act of depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest."

                                Mohandus Ghandi, An Autobiography, Page 446.
                              • michael broadbent
                                Hi ,     I cannot see that using an air cooled engine would present any unsolvable problems I have seen small concrete mixers using small two stroke engines
                                Message 15 of 20 , Apr 26, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi ,
                                      I cannot see that using an air cooled engine would present any unsolvable problems I have seen small concrete mixers using small two stroke engines with very limited air flow for cooling.
                                        The types of long tails are built to serve different tasks the ones used to ferry motor bikes have a open front were a plank can be run out to let a bike be ridden on and off the boat. The locals are most amused if a "big Nose" tourist miss the plank but all help to rescue bike and rider. I  have so far avoided  that embarrassment.
                                         The fisher men use a boat with a high prow with a mounting point on a transom some two feet from the stern they seam to ride the waves okay.
                                    While in Ko lanta  I take always  ride down to Old Lanta  town were there is a small boat yard
                                  the last time i was there they were working on a boat which was double ended with a sharp low  bow and a transom pivot point at both ends .Not speaking Thia  but managing the best I could the idea was that the boat could be beached  then the engine moved to the other end so after re floating there was no need to turn the boat ,
                                      I wish who ever is doing this project the best of luck
                                   
                                  Barge
                                   
                                   
                                   

                                  From: Charles Mitchard <charlesmitchard@...>
                                  To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Friday, 26 April 2013, 2:26
                                  Subject: [multimachine] Re: Research needed - Boat propulsion

                                  a couple of links that may be of help-
                                  http://robnoxious.wordpress.com/2008/09/19/building-plywood-pontoons-out-of-scrap/
                                  http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/post-tsunami/10m-thai-long-tail-8144.html
                                  and just for fun=
                                  http://www.john-tom.com/Klong16/LongTail.html


                                  ------------------------------------

                                  -------------
                                  We have a sister site for files and pictures dedicated to concrete machine framed machine tools. You will find a great deal of information about concrete based machines and the inventor of the concrete frame lathe, Lucian Ingraham Yeomans. Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Multimachine-Concrete-Machine-Tools/

                                  Also visit the Joseph V. Romig group for even more concrete tool construction, shop notes, stories, and wisdom from the early 20th Century.
                                  http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/romig_designs/
                                  -------------Yahoo! Groups Links

                                  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/multimachine/

                                  <*> Your email settings:
                                      Individual Email | Traditional

                                  <*> To change settings online go to:
                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/multimachine/join
                                      (Yahoo! ID required)

                                  <*> To change settings via email:
                                      multimachine-digest@yahoogroups.com
                                      multimachine-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

                                  <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                      multimachine-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                  <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



                                • Pat Delany
                                  THANKS for the wonderful response!! and thanks Harold for the kind words. Dave, I wonder about speed and airflow also. The only thing I can find out about
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Apr 26, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    THANKS for the wonderful response!!
                                    and thanks Harold for the kind words.

                                    Dave,

                                    I wonder about speed and airflow also. The only thing I can find out about speed is that a 6.5 hp Honda runs a common? size boat about 10 mph. Too many variables for me!

                                    Pat


                                    From: michael broadbent <bargemaster24@...>
                                    To: "multimachine@yahoogroups.com" <multimachine@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 1:34 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: Research needed - Boat propulsion

                                     
                                    Hi ,
                                        I cannot see that using an air cooled engine would present any unsolvable problems I have seen small concrete mixers using small two stroke engines with very limited air flow for cooling.
                                          The types of long tails are built to serve different tasks the ones used to ferry motor bikes have a open front were a plank can be run out to let a bike be ridden on and off the boat. The locals are most amused if a "big Nose" tourist miss the plank but all help to rescue bike and rider. I  have so far avoided  that embarrassment.
                                           The fisher men use a boat with a high prow with a mounting point on a transom some two feet from the stern they seam to ride the waves okay.
                                      While in Ko lanta  I take always  ride down to Old Lanta  town were there is a small boat yard
                                    the last time i was there they were working on a boat which was double ended with a sharp low  bow and a transom pivot point at both ends .Not speaking Thia  but managing the best I could the idea was that the boat could be beached  then the engine moved to the other end so after re floating there was no need to turn the boat ,
                                        I wish who ever is doing this project the best of luck
                                     
                                    Barge
                                     
                                     
                                     

                                    From: Charles Mitchard <charlesmitchard@...>
                                    To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Friday, 26 April 2013, 2:26
                                    Subject: [multimachine] Re: Research needed - Boat propulsion

                                    a couple of links that may be of help-
                                    http://robnoxious.wordpress.com/2008/09/19/building-plywood-pontoons-out-of-scrap/
                                    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/post-tsunami/10m-thai-long-tail-8144.html
                                    and just for fun=
                                    http://www.john-tom.com/Klong16/LongTail.html


                                    ------------------------------------

                                    -------------
                                    We have a sister site for files and pictures dedicated to concrete machine framed machine tools. You will find a great deal of information about concrete based machines and the inventor of the concrete frame lathe, Lucian Ingraham Yeomans. Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Multimachine-Concrete-Machine-Tools/

                                    Also visit the Joseph V. Romig group for even more concrete tool construction, shop notes, stories, and wisdom from the early 20th Century.
                                    http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/romig_designs/
                                    -------------Yahoo! Groups Links

                                    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/multimachine/

                                    <*> Your email settings:
                                        Individual Email | Traditional

                                    <*> To change settings online go to:
                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/multimachine/join
                                        (Yahoo! ID required)

                                    <*> To change settings via email:
                                        multimachine-digest@yahoogroups.com
                                        multimachine-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

                                    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                        multimachine-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





                                  • Pat Delany
                                    Hi Barge Any chance you could get pictures/drawings of the motorcycle engine/longtail adapter? Pat ________________________________ From: michael broadbent
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Apr 26, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hi Barge
                                      Any chance you could get pictures/drawings of the motorcycle engine/longtail adapter?

                                      Pat


                                      From: michael broadbent <bargemaster24@...>
                                      To: "multimachine@yahoogroups.com" <multimachine@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 1:34 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: Research needed - Boat propulsion

                                       
                                      Hi ,
                                          I cannot see that using an air cooled engine would present any unsolvable problems I have seen small concrete mixers using small two stroke engines with very limited air flow for cooling.
                                            The types of long tails are built to serve different tasks the ones used to ferry motor bikes have a open front were a plank can be run out to let a bike be ridden on and off the boat. The locals are most amused if a "big Nose" tourist miss the plank but all help to rescue bike and rider. I  have so far avoided  that embarrassment.
                                             The fisher men use a boat with a high prow with a mounting point on a transom some two feet from the stern they seam to ride the waves okay.
                                        While in Ko lanta  I take always  ride down to Old Lanta  town were there is a small boat yard
                                      the last time i was there they were working on a boat which was double ended with a sharp low  bow and a transom pivot point at both ends .Not speaking Thia  but managing the best I could the idea was that the boat could be beached  then the engine moved to the other end so after re floating there was no need to turn the boat ,
                                          I wish who ever is doing this project the best of luck
                                       
                                      Barge
                                       
                                       
                                       

                                      From: Charles Mitchard <charlesmitchard@...>
                                      To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Friday, 26 April 2013, 2:26
                                      Subject: [multimachine] Re: Research needed - Boat propulsion

                                      a couple of links that may be of help-
                                      http://robnoxious.wordpress.com/2008/09/19/building-plywood-pontoons-out-of-scrap/
                                      http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/post-tsunami/10m-thai-long-tail-8144.html
                                      and just for fun=
                                      http://www.john-tom.com/Klong16/LongTail.html


                                      ------------------------------------

                                      -------------
                                      We have a sister site for files and pictures dedicated to concrete machine framed machine tools. You will find a great deal of information about concrete based machines and the inventor of the concrete frame lathe, Lucian Ingraham Yeomans. Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Multimachine-Concrete-Machine-Tools/

                                      Also visit the Joseph V. Romig group for even more concrete tool construction, shop notes, stories, and wisdom from the early 20th Century.
                                      http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/romig_designs/
                                      -------------Yahoo! Groups Links

                                      <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/multimachine/

                                      <*> Your email settings:
                                          Individual Email | Traditional

                                      <*> To change settings online go to:
                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/multimachine/join
                                          (Yahoo! ID required)

                                      <*> To change settings via email:
                                          multimachine-digest@yahoogroups.com
                                          multimachine-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

                                      <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                          multimachine-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                      <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





                                    • Charles Mitchard
                                      did you see the pitch on those racing props?
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Apr 26, 2013
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        did you see the pitch on those racing props?
                                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.