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Re: [multimachine] Re: Question about Factor e Farm

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  • Michael. Igbo
    Hi Dennis, Good work. I do not know how organize they are on ground. I am one of the true fans giving them money every month. I wanted to visit them this
    Message 1 of 19 , Apr 8, 2013
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      Hi Dennis,
      Good work. I do not know how organize they are on ground. I am one of the true fans giving them money every month. I wanted to visit them this summer to get first hand experience of their work.

      Are you ready to share your work with MultiMachine group?

      Thanks.

      Regards,
      Michael Ugbo

      Sent from my iPhone

      On 2013-04-08, at 9:19 AM, DENNIS SHELGREN <nojoeco@...> wrote:

       

      I've had similar thoughts, but also working on a community type project myself it's kind of a strange thought process that occurs. Yes corporations are always needed at some point. For myself and other groups it's more a matter of letting them make money where they can and supply cheap resources, but at the same point not paying them the "big" money for development of badly needed low cost items like machinery and farm equipment. I'm working on a solar project myself and I limit myself to hardware store or salvageable materials, and some aluminum castings. Of course I still need to rely on companies to supply inexpensive electronics or rely on some funky mechanics(more expensive) to do certain things. Maybe someday I'll have an open source chip house or other electronics parts manufacturing off "the grid". I've learned the hard way several times that the economy of scale can kill or also make a project.
      I've even started growing my own timber bamboo to play with more natural materials, I already make my own solder flux from my own pine trees, and have a machine to create solder wire from scrap lead.
      Hope everyone is doing well and doing there own things too!

      -Dennis

    • Gordon Haag
      Could you provide more information on your solder-making machine? Thank you, Gordon Haag
      Message 2 of 19 , Apr 8, 2013
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        Could you provide more information on your solder-making machine?

        Thank you,
        Gordon Haag

        On Monday, April 8, 2013, Michael. Igbo wrote:
         

        Hi Dennis,
        Good work. I do not know how organize they are on ground. I am one of the true fans giving them money every month. I wanted to visit them this summer to get first hand experience of their work.

        Are you ready to share your work with MultiMachine group?

        Thanks.

        Regards,
        Michael Ugbo

        Sent from my iPhone

        On 2013-04-08, at 9:19 AM, DENNIS SHELGREN <nojoeco@...> wrote:

         

        I've had similar thoughts, but also working on a community type project myself it's kind of a strange thought process that occurs. Yes corporations are always needed at some point. For myself and other groups it's more a matter of letting them make money where they can and supply cheap resources, but at the same point not paying them the "big" money for development of badly needed low cost items like machinery and farm equipment. I'm working on a solar project myself and I limit myself to hardware store or salvageable materials, and some aluminum castings. Of course I still need to rely on companies to supply inexpensive electronics or rely on some funky mechanics(more expensive) to do certain things. Maybe someday I'll have an open source chip house or other electronics parts manufacturing off "the grid". I've learned the hard way several times that the economy of scale can kill or also make a project.
        I've even started growing my own timber bamboo to play with more natural materials, I already make my own solder flux from my own pine trees, and have a machine to create solder wire from scrap lead.
        Hope everyone is doing well and doing there own things too!

        -Dennis

      • Kobus Van der Walt
        Technical y speaking this thread is off topic,,, and i am not a moderator- so i dont care :) There are a couple of series that has the post apocalypse post
        Message 3 of 19 , Apr 8, 2013
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          Technical y speaking this thread is off topic,,, and i am not a moderator- so i dont care  :) 

          There are a couple of series that has the post apocalypse post EMP blast\civilization come to a end  scenarios.  I have been told that one inventor cant make a toaster- because the raw materials have to be sourced from all over, that there are 10 steps at least to convert the raw materials into something usefull, 5 people that specialise in each ... in in a post apocalyptic  world they might be scattered all over the world.

          This might be a "bit" exaggerated  but it is reality. Farmers are been praised for their creative problem solving, but the reality is a lot of it has came from anger, irritation and then hopefully a eureka moment. 

          about South African farmers started farming in the Congo. There are no Kmart\Walmart\Super market for a couple of hundred miles from there. Food is getting trucked in, or produced for own consumption.  Closest would be in Namibia. Parts can get ordered- and then waited for... and a bit more.. to get the part eventually or the wrong part.

          This is a place where multi machines will be worth more than gold. The problem is that farming is a business that have about as many problems as a gold mine. Management, equipment, maintenance, planning, finance, accounting, logistics and security. And in the Congo it is worse. Very little that can be referred to as a road etc.  But there are cellular phones.. (there is no land lines in most of Africa)

          But i really admire the Factor e Farm guys as well, everybody need cheaper tractors etc. A income for an poor African extended family is about (Jeremy in Kenya for example) is probably less than $200. (please note extended) So how can they afford a tractor of $200,000? And fuel? Maintenance? 
          Kenya is one of the better countries. 

          I find foreign aid to Africa amusing. A lot of the money end up in presidents bank accounts and a lot of it is used to keep the population in line. But not all of it. 
          If it was not for foreign aid Africa would perish. Only by empowering African people will the continent become a better place. But that is just my opinion.

          PS... The South African farmers are safe in Congo, although South Africa lost some soldiers there this year.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-22064193/  The reason is that the local population really want them there. Where as i that live in South Africa are a 100 times more likely to run across crime. 

          just my 5 cents worth.
          Kobus van der Walt






          On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 4:56 AM, Gordon Haag <mr.meker@...> wrote:
           

          Could you provide more information on your solder-making machine?


          Thank you,
          Gordon Haag


          On Monday, April 8, 2013, Michael. Igbo wrote:
           

          Hi Dennis,
          Good work. I do not know how organize they are on ground. I am one of the true fans giving them money every month. I wanted to visit them this summer to get first hand experience of their work.

          Are you ready to share your work with MultiMachine group?

          Thanks.

          Regards,
          Michael Ugbo

          Sent from my iPhone

          On 2013-04-08, at 9:19 AM, DENNIS SHELGREN <nojoeco@...> wrote:

           

          I've had similar thoughts, but also working on a community type project myself it's kind of a strange thought process that occurs. Yes corporations are always needed at some point. For myself and other groups it's more a matter of letting them make money where they can and supply cheap resources, but at the same point not paying them the "big" money for development of badly needed low cost items like machinery and farm equipment. I'm working on a solar project myself and I limit myself to hardware store or salvageable materials, and some aluminum castings. Of course I still need to rely on companies to supply inexpensive electronics or rely on some funky mechanics(more expensive) to do certain things. Maybe someday I'll have an open source chip house or other electronics parts manufacturing off "the grid". I've learned the hard way several times that the economy of scale can kill or also make a project.
          I've even started growing my own timber bamboo to play with more natural materials, I already make my own solder flux from my own pine trees, and have a machine to create solder wire from scrap lead.
          Hope everyone is doing well and doing there own things too!

          -Dennis


        • Shannon DeWolfe
          Kobus, I don t have time this morning to research the path your post has lead me to follow. We in the USA do not get much news about Africa on the TV and
          Message 4 of 19 , Apr 9, 2013
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            Kobus,

            I don't have time this morning to research the path your post has lead
            me to follow. We in the USA do not get much news about Africa on the TV
            and radio. There is much to learn.

            I found a more recent article about SA farmers moving north. Still
            researching the subject. Farmers must be taking tractors and combines
            and trucks with them to the countries to the north, no? If so, there
            will be a huge demand for fabrication and repair. I think we need to
            find a way to make the farmers aware of the potential of a multimachine
            or concrete lathe.

            BTW, I don't mind the off topic stuff either. Letting people discuss
            what they will brings about posts like yours.

            Regards,

            Mr. Shannon DeWolfe
            --I've taken to using Mr. because my name misleads folks on the WWW. I am a 57 year old fat man.

            On 4/8/2013 11:15 PM, Kobus Van der Walt wrote:
            > Technical y speaking this thread is off topic,,, and i am not
            > a moderator- so i dont care :)
          • Pat Delany
            Good job Shannon. I think migrations are going to start fairly soon. Pat ________________________________ From: Shannon DeWolfe To:
            Message 5 of 19 , Apr 9, 2013
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              Good job Shannon.
              I think migrations are going to start fairly soon.

              Pat


              From: Shannon DeWolfe <sdewolfe@...>
              To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 6:05 AM
              Subject: Re: [multimachine] Question about Factor e Farm

               
              Kobus,

              I don't have time this morning to research the path your post has lead
              me to follow. We in the USA do not get much news about Africa on the TV
              and radio. There is much to learn.

              I found a more recent article about SA farmers moving north. Still
              researching the subject. Farmers must be taking tractors and combines
              and trucks with them to the countries to the north, no? If so, there
              will be a huge demand for fabrication and repair. I think we need to
              find a way to make the farmers aware of the potential of a multimachine
              or concrete lathe.

              BTW, I don't mind the off topic stuff either. Letting people discuss
              what they will brings about posts like yours.

              Regards,

              Mr. Shannon DeWolfe
              --I've taken to using Mr. because my name misleads folks on the WWW. I am a 57 year old fat man.

              On 4/8/2013 11:15 PM, Kobus Van der Walt wrote:
              > Technical y speaking this thread is off topic,,, and i am not
              > a moderator- so i dont care :)



            • DENNIS SHELGREN
              The solder making machine is just like a bullet core making machine used for jacketed bullets. It s a heavy wall sleeve with a plunger and a bolt on die. The
              Message 6 of 19 , Apr 9, 2013
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                The solder making machine is just like a bullet core making machine used for jacketed bullets. It's a heavy wall sleeve with a plunger and a bolt on die. The die is just a thick piece of metal with a hole and a curved/tapered entry. The whole thing is thrown on a press and the solder is extruded. I do have to cast slugs to feed it, and I've used known material wheel weights and of course recovered solder from electronics parts harvesting.
                The flux is just pine tree resin and alcohol, heated, stirred, cooled in a freezer and filtered. The cooling separates the fats? from the mix.
                I'm also working on a water based flux from lemons.

                As for my solar project, I decided to "sell out with benefits". I have a corporate contract now for commercial development, but I did make sure that I reserved both the rights and time to make an open source version. Oddly they were o.k. with that as they feel many won't want to work with castings, weld, or solder and will want to buy parts from the commercial version. I was originally developing the open source version first but got stuck at the needing money for prototype materials and a much more powerful computer to do sim work. Currently I'm about 90% complete on the working scale model, and unless someone at the business level is lying I should be making full size models this summer or fall. I'm aiming for less than a dollar(us) a watt including the electronics, inverter, chargers, and batteries. It's also possible to build with entirely scrounged parts if ones needs can be limited to 12v dc.

                As for the questions about factor e being off topic I don't really know. All forms of development, especially when the developers are giving away their time or making an open source version will need help at some point. Whether the developer is even able to build show models is sometimes a problem in and of itself. And sometimes you have to make a super expensive version of something in order to show that it works to the satisfaction of others. I expect that the multimachine will follow the example of e-Farm in that someone will do a TED talk or other public forum where interested parties  (and donators/investors) will grow. Then it seems likely that lots of building will take place and the design will be refined and changed.

                One of the things that my own funding will allow me to do is to take some of Tyler's awesome drawings and run them through my simulation computer and then I can get involved again!

                A significant amount of people with money who want to help want to make materials and machinery here and either send it as a kit to those who need it or set up an operation where it's needed. I've also noticed that quite a few also have little or no mechanical knowledge and refer to any such problems as "we'll just get the people"!
              • Pat Delany
                Hi Dennis Love to have your help! I have mixed feelings about the open farm people. The listed the MM on their site for a long time(still do I think) but my
                Message 7 of 19 , Apr 9, 2013
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                  Hi Dennis
                  Love to have your help!

                  I have mixed feelings about the open farm people. The listed the MM on their site for a long time(still do I think) but my part in it seems to have been forgotten. Probably a natural part of a project being handed down and down .....

                  Pat



                  From: DENNIS SHELGREN <nojoeco@...>
                  To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 12:02 PM
                  Subject: [multimachine] Re: Question about Factor e Farm

                   
                  The solder making machine is just like a bullet core making machine used for jacketed bullets. It's a heavy wall sleeve with a plunger and a bolt on die. The die is just a thick piece of metal with a hole and a curved/tapered entry. The whole thing is thrown on a press and the solder is extruded. I do have to cast slugs to feed it, and I've used known material wheel weights and of course recovered solder from electronics parts harvesting.
                  The flux is just pine tree resin and alcohol, heated, stirred, cooled in a freezer and filtered. The cooling separates the fats? from the mix.
                  I'm also working on a water based flux from lemons.

                  As for my solar project, I decided to "sell out with benefits". I have a corporate contract now for commercial development, but I did make sure that I reserved both the rights and time to make an open source version. Oddly they were o.k. with that as they feel many won't want to work with castings, weld, or solder and will want to buy parts from the commercial version. I was originally developing the open source version first but got stuck at the needing money for prototype materials and a much more powerful computer to do sim work. Currently I'm about 90% complete on the working scale model, and unless someone at the business level is lying I should be making full size models this summer or fall. I'm aiming for less than a dollar(us) a watt including the electronics, inverter, chargers, and batteries. It's also possible to build with entirely scrounged parts if ones needs can be limited to 12v dc.

                  As for the questions about factor e being off topic I don't really know. All forms of development, especially when the developers are giving away their time or making an open source version will need help at some point. Whether the developer is even able to build show models is sometimes a problem in and of itself. And sometimes you have to make a super expensive version of something in order to show that it works to the satisfaction of others. I expect that the multimachine will follow the example of e-Farm in that someone will do a TED talk or other public forum where interested parties  (and donators/investors) will grow. Then it seems likely that lots of building will take place and the design will be refined and changed.

                  One of the things that my own funding will allow me to do is to take some of Tyler's awesome drawings and run them through my simulation computer and then I can get involved again!

                  A significant amount of people with money who want to help want to make materials and machinery here and either send it as a kit to those who need it or set up an operation where it's needed. I've also noticed that quite a few also have little or no mechanical knowledge and refer to any such problems as "we'll just get the people"!


                • David G. LeVine
                  ... As another moderator here, I support Shannon s position PROVIDED it doesn t turn into a flame war. Politics and religion are not good choices here,
                  Message 8 of 19 , Apr 9, 2013
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                    On 04/09/2013 07:05 AM, Shannon DeWolfe wrote:
                    BTW, I don't mind the off topic stuff either. Letting people discuss 
                    what they will brings about posts like yours.
                    
                    Regards,
                    
                    Mr. Shannon DeWolfe

                    As another moderator here, I support Shannon's position PROVIDED it doesn't turn into a flame war.  Politics and religion are not good choices here, technology is.

                    Dave  8{)

                    --


                    "Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act of depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest."

                    Mohandus Ghandi, An Autobiography, Page 446.
                  • David G. LeVine
                    ... Pat, Consider a hydraulic spindle drive. Since they base everything on a Power Cube (25 HP hydraulic system), the spindle would be really easy and really
                    Message 9 of 19 , Apr 9, 2013
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                      On 04/09/2013 01:15 PM, Pat Delany wrote:
                      Hi Dennis
                      Love to have your help!

                      I have mixed feelings about the open farm people. The listed the MM on their site for a long time(still do I think) but my part in it seems to have been forgotten. Probably a natural part of a project being handed down and down .....

                      Pat

                      Pat,

                      Consider a hydraulic spindle drive.  Since they base everything on a Power Cube (25 HP hydraulic system), the spindle would be really easy and really good.  With a simple accumulator, the pulsations could be reduced to virtually nothing, and the spindle could be easily driven from a pump like this https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-8233&catname=hydraulic driving a wheel motor like this  https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-9469&catname=hydraulic at continuously variable speeds up to 300 RPM (roughly.)

                      While it is a re-engineered power cube (due to the pump change), the power cube will still function properly on everything else.

                      Dave  8{)
                      --


                      "Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act of depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest."

                      Mohandus Ghandi, An Autobiography, Page 446.
                    • keith gutshall
                      Hi Pat  Maybe these people have no idea how useful a lathe/MM can be to make parts.  They don t get it.  Even a simple machine can make good parts.
                      Message 10 of 19 , Apr 9, 2013
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                        Hi Pat
                         Maybe these people have no idea how useful a lathe/MM can be to make parts.
                         They don't get it.
                         Even a simple machine can make good parts.
                         Building the machine like I did was the best thing for me, it open a whole new world of parts
                        I could make.
                         
                         Keith
                         
                        Deep Run Portage
                        Back Shop
                        " The Lizard Works"
                        From: Pat Delany <rigmatch@...>
                        To: "multimachine@yahoogroups.com" <multimachine@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 12:15 PM
                        Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: Question about Factor e Farm
                         
                        Hi Dennis
                        Love to have your help!

                        I have mixed feelings about the open farm people. The listed the MM on their site for a long time(still do I think) but my part in it seems to have been forgotten. Probably a natural part of a project being handed down and down .....

                        Pat


                        From: DENNIS SHELGREN <nojoeco@...>
                        To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 12:02 PM
                        Subject: [multimachine] Re: Question about Factor e Farm
                         
                        The solder making machine is just like a bullet core making machine used for jacketed bullets. It's a heavy wall sleeve with a plunger and a bolt on die. The die is just a thick piece of metal with a hole and a curved/tapered entry. The whole thing is thrown on a press and the solder is extruded. I do have to cast slugs to feed it, and I've used known material wheel weights and of course recovered solder from electronics parts harvesting. The flux is just pine tree resin and alcohol, heated, stirred, cooled in a freezer and filtered. The cooling separates the fats? from the mix. I'm also working on a water based flux from lemons. As for my solar project, I decided to "sell out with benefits". I have a corporate contract now for commercial development, but I did make sure that I reserved both the rights and time to make an open source version. Oddly they were o.k. with that as they feel many won't want to work with castings, weld, or solder and will want to buy parts from the commercial version. I was originally developing the open source version first but got stuck at the needing money for prototype materials and a much more powerful computer to do sim work. Currently I'm about 90% complete on the working scale model, and unless someone at the business level is lying I should be making full size models this summer or fall. I'm aiming for less than a dollar(us) a watt including the electronics, inverter, chargers, and batteries. It's also possible to build with entirely scrounged parts if ones needs can be limited to 12v dc. As for the questions about factor e being off topic I don't really know. All forms of development, especially when the developers are giving away their time or making an open source version will need help at some point. Whether the developer is even able to build show models is sometimes a problem in and of itself. And sometimes you have to make a super expensive version of something in order to show that it works to the satisfaction of others. I expect that the multimachine will follow the example of e-Farm in that someone will do a TED talk or other public forum where interested parties  (and donators/investors) will grow. Then it seems likely that lots of building will take place and the design will be refined and changed. One of the things that my own funding will allow me to do is to take some of Tyler's awesome drawings and run them through my simulation computer and then I can get involved again! A significant amount of people with money who want to help want to make materials and machinery here and either send it as a kit to those who need it or set up an operation where it's needed. I've also noticed that quite a few also have little or no mechanical knowledge and refer to any such problems as "we'll just get the people"!
                      • mika ugbo
                        Hi Dennis, Nice work. Please continue to keep us inform about your progress. Thanks. Michael Ugbo Alberta, canada. ... From: DENNIS SHELGREN
                        Message 11 of 19 , Apr 9, 2013
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                          Hi Dennis,
                          Nice work. Please continue to keep us inform about your progress.
                          Thanks.
                          Michael Ugbo
                          Alberta, canada.
                          --- On Tue, 4/9/13, DENNIS SHELGREN <nojoeco@...> wrote:

                          From: DENNIS SHELGREN <nojoeco@...>
                          Subject: [multimachine] Re: Question about Factor e Farm
                          To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                          Received: Tuesday, April 9, 2013, 1:02 PM

                           
                          The solder making machine is just like a bullet core making machine used for jacketed bullets. It's a heavy wall sleeve with a plunger and a bolt on die. The die is just a thick piece of metal with a hole and a curved/tapered entry. The whole thing is thrown on a press and the solder is extruded. I do have to cast slugs to feed it, and I've used known material wheel weights and of course recovered solder from electronics parts harvesting.
                          The flux is just pine tree resin and alcohol, heated, stirred, cooled in a freezer and filtered. The cooling separates the fats? from the mix.
                          I'm also working on a water based flux from lemons.

                          As for my solar project, I decided to "sell out with benefits". I have a corporate contract now for commercial development, but I did make sure that I reserved both the rights and time to make an open source version. Oddly they were o.k. with that as they feel many won't want to work with castings, weld, or solder and will want to buy parts from the commercial version. I was originally developing the open source version first but got stuck at the needing money for prototype materials and a much more powerful computer to do sim work. Currently I'm about 90% complete on the working scale model, and unless someone at the business level is lying I should be making full size models this summer or fall. I'm aiming for less than a dollar(us) a watt including the electronics, inverter, chargers, and batteries. It's also possible to build with entirely scrounged parts if ones needs can be limited to 12v dc.

                          As for the questions about factor e being off topic I don't really know. All forms of development, especially when the developers are giving away their time or making an open source version will need help at some point. Whether the developer is even able to build show models is sometimes a problem in and of itself. And sometimes you have to make a super expensive version of something in order to show that it works to the satisfaction of others. I expect that the multimachine will follow the example of e-Farm in that someone will do a TED talk or other public forum where interested parties  (and donators/investors) will grow. Then it seems likely that lots of building will take place and the design will be refined and changed.

                          One of the things that my own funding will allow me to do is to take some of Tyler's awesome drawings and run them through my simulation computer and then I can get involved again!

                          A significant amount of people with money who want to help want to make materials and machinery here and either send it as a kit to those who need it or set up an operation where it's needed. I've also noticed that quite a few also have little or no mechanical knowledge and refer to any such problems as "we'll just get the people"!
                        • Pierre Coueffin
                          I m in the BC interior. I ll be in Calgary for a few days this summer.
                          Message 12 of 19 , Apr 10, 2013
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                            I'm in the BC interior.  I'll be in Calgary for a few days this summer.


                            On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 1:19 PM, mika ugbo <iyinbor@...> wrote:
                             
                            Another question: are there members of this forum currently building the MultiMachine living in Canada especially in Western Canada: Alberta and British Columbia?
                             

                          • Michael. Igbo
                            Good for me. Although I live in Edmonton but work in Fort McMurray, I should be able to make it to Calgary especially on weekends, Please let me know in
                            Message 13 of 19 , Apr 11, 2013
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                              Good for me. Although I live in Edmonton but work in Fort McMurray, I should be able to make it to Calgary especially on weekends, Please let me know in advance when you will be in Calgary this summer.

                              Thanks.
                              Michael Ugbo
                              Fort McMurray,
                              Alberta, Canada.

                              Sent from my iPhone

                              On 2013-04-10, at 11:06 AM, Pierre Coueffin <pcoueffin@...> wrote:

                               

                              I'm in the BC interior.  I'll be in Calgary for a few days this summer.


                              On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 1:19 PM, mika ugbo <iyinbor@...> wrote:
                               
                              Another question: are there members of this forum currently building the MultiMachine living in Canada especially in Western Canada: Alberta and British Columbia?
                               

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