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Doubt round way accuracy?

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  • Pat
    I just found this From http://www.lathes.co.uk/monarch/index.html 1966 Monarch Super precision 10 EC Chucking Lathe with infinitely variable speeds from 30 to
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 8, 2012
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      I just found this

      From http://www.lathes.co.uk/monarch/index.html

      1966 Monarch Super precision 10" EC Chucking Lathe with infinitely variable speeds from 30 to 3,000 rpm The first one was sold in 1965 (SN-46637) and the last one sold in 1975 (SN-51301) It was capable of holding parts to an accuracy of 0.000030" and featured "Centre line drive" with the carriage mounted on two round rails, fully enclosed, and powered by ball screw.

      Pat
    • Pat
      Just noticed: we have center line drive also and if the carriage is spring loaded from the rear so that the carriage nut always presses against one side of
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 8, 2012
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        Just noticed: we have "center line drive" also and if the carriage is spring loaded from the rear so that the carriage nut always presses against one side of the lead screw thread, the carriage could have almost no backlash (like a ball screw).

        Pat

        --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "Pat" <rigmatch@...> wrote:
        >
        > I just found this
        >
        > From http://www.lathes.co.uk/monarch/index.html
        >
        > 1966 Monarch Super precision 10" EC Chucking Lathe with infinitely variable speeds from 30 to 3,000 rpm The first one was sold in 1965 (SN-46637) and the last one sold in 1975 (SN-51301) It was capable of holding parts to an accuracy of 0.000030" and featured "Centre line drive" with the carriage mounted on two round rails, fully enclosed, and powered by ball screw.
        >
        > Pat
        >
      • David G. LeVine
        ... Differential wear on the leadscrew will not allow you to be that precise or that accurate. Let s assume the first pass is 1 long offset from the face
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 8, 2012
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          On 07/08/2012 04:12 PM, Pat wrote:
          Just noticed: we have "center line drive" also and if the carriage is spring loaded from the rear so that the carriage nut always presses against one side of the lead screw thread, the carriage could have almost no backlash (like a ball screw).
          
          Pat

          Differential wear on the leadscrew will not allow you to be that precise or that accurate.  Let's assume the first pass is 1" long offset from the face plate by 1", the second pass is 1" long offset from the face plate by 1.5".  After a few years, from 1" to 1.5" will have one wear pattern, from 1.5" to 2" will show more wear and from 2" to 2.5" will show similar wear to the first area.  Since it is common for bed wear (in older lathes) to be 0.010" in the first few inches, I can see how an unhardened leadscrew could be worse.

          Ballscrews rely on rolling contact, leadscrews rely on sliding contact, the wear difference is pretty huge.  However, we are looking at relative accuracies of 0.003" or so, replacing a leadscrew every 5-10 years is not as bad as not having the lathe at all.  And, of course, the leadscrew can be flipped end for end and the minimally worn end can do for another 5-10 years...  So, 20 years on a cheap, subsistence lathe with heavy use, or a lifetime on one with moderate use (the usage for which we are shooting) is not a bad tradeoff.

          A 1/2-20 threaded rod is under $10, and the lathe should be replicating itself, so one of its "offsprings" should be able to make a new leadscrew pretty easily, or recut the old one...

          Dave  8{)

          --
          "The first method for estimating the intelligence of a ruler is to look at the men he has around him."
          Niccolo Machiavelli

          NOTE TO ALL:

          When forwarding emails, please use only "Blind Carbon Copy" or "Bcc" for all recipients. Please "delete" or "highlight & cut" any forwarding history which includes my email address! It is a courtesy to me and others who may not wish to have their email addresses sent all over the world! Erasing the history helps prevent Spammers from mining addresses and viruses from being propagated.


          THANK YOU!
        • Bruce Bellows
          Just so we keep our head on straight here the lathe that you are referencing Pat will indeed hold extremely tight tolerances as it is designed to do. This
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 8, 2012
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            Just so we keep our head on straight here the lathe that you are referencing Pat will indeed hold extremely tight tolerances as it is designed to do. This lathe is a chucking lathe that has no tailstock and very limited travel of the cross slide with a turret mounted on it. It also runs in super high precision bearings. That being said any lead screw can be fitted with an anti backlash nut assembly but the overall accuracy will still be dependent upon the manufacturring accuracy of the thread. I have also seen some fine work done on some old lathes with a lot of wear in them.
            From the round way perspective anybody here from the Openlathe group have probably heard me talk highly of the idea of producing a round bed lathe. A few other examples besides the Monarch that might also be of  interest are

            http://www.lathes.co.uk/leinweber/
            http://www.lathes.co.uk/scope/
            http://www.lathes.co.uk/kneller/index.html

            The Kneller lathe is almost a centre driven lathe with the lead screw located under the front round bar way. The Scope lathe is the one I was looking at when I suggested the hydraulic cylinder piston rod material for use.

            Bruce

            On 7/8/2012 11:36 PM, David G. LeVine wrote:
             

            On 07/08/2012 04:12 PM, Pat wrote:
            Just noticed: we have "center line drive" also and if the carriage is spring loaded from the rear so that the carriage nut always presses against one side of the lead screw thread, the carriage could have almost no backlash (like a ball screw).
            
            Pat

            Differential wear on the leadscrew will not allow you to be that precise or that accurate.  Let's assume the first pass is 1" long offset from the face plate by 1", the second pass is 1" long offset from the face plate by 1.5".  After a few years, from 1" to 1.5" will have one wear pattern, from 1.5" to 2" will show more wear and from 2" to 2.5" will show similar wear to the first area.  Since it is common for bed wear (in older lathes) to be 0.010" in the first few inches, I can see how an unhardened leadscrew could be worse.

            Ballscrews rely on rolling contact, leadscrews rely on sliding contact, the wear difference is pretty huge.  However, we are looking at relative accuracies of 0.003" or so, replacing a leadscrew every 5-10 years is not as bad as not having the lathe at all.  And, of course, the leadscrew can be flipped end for end and the minimally worn end can do for another 5-10 years...  So, 20 years on a cheap, subsistence lathe with heavy use, or a lifetime on one with moderate use (the usage for which we are shooting) is not a bad tradeoff.

            A 1/2-20 threaded rod is under $10, and the lathe should be replicating itself, so one of its "offsprings" should be able to make a new leadscrew pretty easily, or recut the old one...

            Dave  8{)

            --
            "The first method for estimating the intelligence of a ruler is to look at the men he has around him."
            Niccolo Machiavelli

            NOTE TO ALL:

            When forwarding emails, please use only "Blind Carbon Copy" or "Bcc" for all recipients. Please "delete" or "highlight & cut" any forwarding history which includes my email address! It is a courtesy to me and others who may not wish to have their email addresses sent all over the world! Erasing the history helps prevent Spammers from mining addresses and viruses from being propagated.


            THANK YOU!
          • Shannon DeWolfe
            Just a comment on the designs of the lathes linked by Bruce; all three manufacturers incorporated a lift for the cross slide. It is not unheard of in prism or
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 9, 2012
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              Just a comment on the designs of the lathes linked by Bruce; all three
              manufacturers incorporated a lift for the cross slide. It is not unheard
              of in prism or flat ways machines but neither is it common practice to
              elevate the entire table. Why did three different makers of round ways
              machines incorporate the idea?

              Too, the Leinweber Company offered a tool post grinder, a grinding
              wheel, and a Blanchard grinder. Lathe, mill, drill, slotter, shaper, and
              multiple grinders -- that machine earned it keep!

              On 7/9/2012 1:10 AM, Bruce Bellows wrote:
              > http://www.lathes.co.uk/leinweber/
              > http://www.lathes.co.uk/scope/
              > http://www.lathes.co.uk/kneller/index.html

              --
              Mr. Shannon DeWolfe
              --I've taken to using Mr. because my name misleads folks on the WWW. I am a 56 year old fat man.
            • Bruce Bellows
              Just a point of clarification, the Scope and the Kneller were both made by Kneller. The Scope was the precursor to the Kneller. Bruce
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 9, 2012
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                Just a point of clarification, the Scope and the Kneller were both made by Kneller. The Scope was the precursor to the Kneller.

                Bruce

                On 7/9/2012 6:16 AM, Shannon DeWolfe wrote:
                 

                Just a comment on the designs of the lathes linked by Bruce; all three
                manufacturers incorporated a lift for the cross slide. It is not unheard
                of in prism or flat ways machines but neither is it common practice to
                elevate the entire table. Why did three different makers of round ways
                machines incorporate the idea?

                Too, the Leinweber Company offered a tool post grinder, a grinding
                wheel, and a Blanchard grinder. Lathe, mill, drill, slotter, shaper, and
                multiple grinders -- that machine earned it keep!

                On 7/9/2012 1:10 AM, Bruce Bellows wrote:
                > http://www.lathes.co.uk/leinweber/
                > http://www.lathes.co.uk/scope/
                > http://www.lathes.co.uk/kneller/index.html

                --
                Mr. Shannon DeWolfe
                --I've taken to using Mr. because my name misleads folks on the WWW. I am a 56 year old fat man.

              • Bruce Bellows
                Here is another one that is different but still a round bar lathe. Worth checking out. http://www.lathes.co.uk/almkvist/index.html Bruce
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 9, 2012
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                  Here is another one that is different but still a round bar lathe. Worth
                  checking out.

                  http://www.lathes.co.uk/almkvist/index.html


                  Bruce
                • keith gutshall
                  Hi Bruce I am with you on that,accuracy depends on how much $$$ you spend on parts.    On a homemade machine and in the real world,if you are accurate to
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 9, 2012
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                    Hi Bruce
                    I am with you on that,accuracy depends on how much $$$ you spend on parts.
                     
                     On a homemade machine and in the real world,if you are accurate to about +/- 0.002
                     the part is going to work fine.
                     
                     There are a lot of variables in machineing that effect accuracy in the world.
                     
                     Keith
                     
                    Deep Run Portage
                    Back Shop
                    " The Lizard Works"
                    From: Bruce Bellows <bbellows@...>
                    To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, July 9, 2012 1:10 AM
                    Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: Doubt round way accuracy?

                     
                    Just so we keep our head on straight here the lathe that you are referencing Pat will indeed hold extremely tight tolerances as it is designed to do. This lathe is a chucking lathe that has no tailstock and very limited travel of the cross slide with a turret mounted on it. It also runs in super high precision bearings. That being said any lead screw can be fitted with an anti backlash nut assembly but the overall accuracy will still be dependent upon the manufacturring accuracy of the thread. I have also seen some fine work done on some old lathes with a lot of wear in them.
                    From the round way perspective anybody here from the Openlathe group have probably heard me talk highly of the idea of producing a round bed lathe. A few other examples besides the Monarch that might also be of  interest are

                    http://www.lathes.co.uk/leinweber/
                    http://www.lathes.co.uk/scope/
                    http://www.lathes.co.uk/kneller/index.html

                    The Kneller lathe is almost a centre driven lathe with the lead screw located under the front round bar way. The Scope lathe is the one I was looking at when I suggested the hydraulic cylinder piston rod material for use.

                    Bruce

                    On 7/8/2012 11:36 PM, David G. LeVine wrote:
                     
                    On 07/08/2012 04:12 PM, Pat wrote:
                    Just noticed: we have "center line drive" also and if the carriage is spring loaded from the rear so that the carriage nut always presses against one side of the lead screw thread, the carriage could have almost no backlash (like a ball screw).
                    
                    Pat

                    Differential wear on the leadscrew will not allow you to be that precise or that accurate.  Let's assume the first pass is 1" long offset from the face plate by 1", the second pass is 1" long offset from the face plate by 1.5".  After a few years, from 1" to 1.5" will have one wear pattern, from 1.5" to 2" will show more wear and from 2" to 2.5" will show similar wear to the first area.  Since it is common for bed wear (in older lathes) to be 0.010" in the first few inches, I can see how an unhardened leadscrew could be worse.

                    Ballscrews rely on rolling contact, leadscrews rely on sliding contact, the wear difference is pretty huge.  However, we are looking at relative accuracies of 0.003" or so, replacing a leadscrew every 5-10 years is not as bad as not having the lathe at all.  And, of course, the leadscrew can be flipped end for end and the minimally worn end can do for another 5-10 years...  So, 20 years on a cheap, subsistence lathe with heavy use, or a lifetime on one with moderate use (the usage for which we are shooting) is not a bad tradeoff.

                    A 1/2-20 threaded rod is under $10, and the lathe should be replicating itself, so one of its "offsprings" should be able to make a new leadscrew pretty easily, or recut the old one...

                    Dave  8{)

                    --
                    "The first method for estimating the intelligence of a ruler is to look at the men he has around him."
                    Niccolo Machiavelli

                    NOTE TO ALL:

                    When forwarding emails, please use only "Blind Carbon Copy" or "Bcc" for all recipients. Please "delete" or "highlight & cut" any forwarding history which includes my email address! It is a courtesy to me and others who may not wish to have their email addresses sent all over the world! Erasing the history helps prevent Spammers from mining addresses and viruses from being propagated.


                    THANK YOU!


                  • Pat Delany
                    I would be happy with .003 . the best machinist I ever knew always used a file for the final fit. Pat ________________________________ From: keith gutshall
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 9, 2012
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                      I would be happy with .003". the best machinist I ever knew always used a file for the final fit.

                      Pat


                      From: keith gutshall <drpshops@...>
                      To: "multimachine@yahoogroups.com" <multimachine@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Monday, July 9, 2012 9:08 AM
                      Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: Doubt round way accuracy?

                       
                      Hi Bruce
                      I am with you on that,accuracy depends on how much $$$ you spend on parts.
                       
                       On a homemade machine and in the real world,if you are accurate to about +/- 0.002
                       the part is going to work fine.
                       
                       There are a lot of variables in machineing that effect accuracy in the world.
                       
                       Keith
                       
                      Deep Run Portage
                      Back Shop
                      " The Lizard Works"
                      From: Bruce Bellows <bbellows@...>
                      To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, July 9, 2012 1:10 AM
                      Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: Doubt round way accuracy?

                       
                      Just so we keep our head on straight here the lathe that you are referencing Pat will indeed hold extremely tight tolerances as it is designed to do. This lathe is a chucking lathe that has no tailstock and very limited travel of the cross slide with a turret mounted on it. It also runs in super high precision bearings. That being said any lead screw can be fitted with an anti backlash nut assembly but the overall accuracy will still be dependent upon the manufacturring accuracy of the thread. I have also seen some fine work done on some old lathes with a lot of wear in them.
                      From the round way perspective anybody here from the Openlathe group have probably heard me talk highly of the idea of producing a round bed lathe. A few other examples besides the Monarch that might also be of  interest are

                      http://www.lathes.co.uk/leinweber/
                      http://www.lathes.co.uk/scope/
                      http://www.lathes.co.uk/kneller/index.html

                      The Kneller lathe is almost a centre driven lathe with the lead screw located under the front round bar way. The Scope lathe is the one I was looking at when I suggested the hydraulic cylinder piston rod material for use.

                      Bruce

                      On 7/8/2012 11:36 PM, David G. LeVine wrote:
                       
                      On 07/08/2012 04:12 PM, Pat wrote:
                      Just noticed: we have "center line drive" also and if the carriage is spring loaded from the rear so that the carriage nut always presses against one side of the lead screw thread, the carriage could have almost no backlash (like a ball screw).
                      
                      Pat

                      Differential wear on the leadscrew will not allow you to be that precise or that accurate.  Let's assume the first pass is 1" long offset from the face plate by 1", the second pass is 1" long offset from the face plate by 1.5".  After a few years, from 1" to 1.5" will have one wear pattern, from 1.5" to 2" will show more wear and from 2" to 2.5" will show similar wear to the first area.  Since it is common for bed wear (in older lathes) to be 0.010" in the first few inches, I can see how an unhardened leadscrew could be worse.

                      Ballscrews rely on rolling contact, leadscrews rely on sliding contact, the wear difference is pretty huge.  However, we are looking at relative accuracies of 0.003" or so, replacing a leadscrew every 5-10 years is not as bad as not having the lathe at all.  And, of course, the leadscrew can be flipped end for end and the minimally worn end can do for another 5-10 years...  So, 20 years on a cheap, subsistence lathe with heavy use, or a lifetime on one with moderate use (the usage for which we are shooting) is not a bad tradeoff.

                      A 1/2-20 threaded rod is under $10, and the lathe should be replicating itself, so one of its "offsprings" should be able to make a new leadscrew pretty easily, or recut the old one...

                      Dave  8{)

                      --
                      "The first method for estimating the intelligence of a ruler is to look at the men he has around him."
                      Niccolo Machiavelli

                      NOTE TO ALL:

                      When forwarding emails, please use only "Blind Carbon Copy" or "Bcc" for all recipients. Please "delete" or "highlight & cut" any forwarding history which includes my email address! It is a courtesy to me and others who may not wish to have their email addresses sent all over the world! Erasing the history helps prevent Spammers from mining addresses and viruses from being propagated.


                      THANK YOU!




                    • Pierre Coueffin
                      I really like the tangential tool holder that replaces the raising column on the Scope... Search for the words slot on a special plain column on the page,
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jul 9, 2012
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                        I really like the tangential tool holder that replaces the raising
                        column on the Scope...

                        Search for the words "slot on a special plain column" on the page, and
                        look at the picture above them.

                        It allows you to remove the cross-slide entirely, and puts the feed
                        below the ways. Which probably increases the capacity of the lathe by
                        2". Not something you'd want to do regularly, since the controls
                        would be awkward, but it would be really as an alternative to having a
                        gap bed.

                        On 7/9/12, Pat Delany <rigmatch@...> wrote:
                        > I would be happy with .003". the best machinist I ever knew always used a
                        > file for the final fit.
                        >
                        > Pat
                        >
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: keith gutshall <drpshops@...>
                        > To: "multimachine@yahoogroups.com" <multimachine@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Monday, July 9, 2012 9:08 AM
                        > Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: Doubt round way accuracy?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Hi Bruce
                        > I am with you on that,accuracy depends on how much $$$ you spend on parts.
                        >
                        >  On a homemade machine and in the real world,if you are accurate to about
                        > +/- 0.002
                        >  the part is going to work fine.
                        >
                        >  There are a lot of variables in machineing that effect accuracy in the
                        > world.
                        >
                        >  Keith
                        >
                        > Deep Run Portage
                        > Back Shop
                        > " The Lizard Works"
                        >
                        > From: Bruce Bellows <bbellows@...>
                        > To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Monday, July 9, 2012 1:10 AM
                        > Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: Doubt round way accuracy?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Just so we keep our head on straight here the lathe that you are referencing
                        > Pat will indeed hold extremely tight tolerances as it is designed to do.
                        > This lathe is a chucking lathe that has no tailstock and very limited travel
                        > of the cross slide with a turret mounted on it. It also runs in super high
                        > precision bearings. That being said any lead screw can be fitted with an
                        > anti backlash nut assembly but the overall accuracy will still be dependent
                        > upon the manufacturring accuracy of the thread. I have also seen some fine
                        > work done on some old lathes with a lot of wear in them.
                        > From the round way perspective anybody here from the Openlathe group have
                        > probably heard me talk highly of the idea of producing a round bed lathe. A
                        > few other examples besides the Monarch that might also be of  interest are
                        >
                        > http://www.lathes.co.uk/leinweber/
                        > http://www.lathes.co.uk/scope/
                        > http://www.lathes.co.uk/kneller/index.html
                        >
                        > The Kneller
                        > lathe is almost a centre driven lathe with the lead screw located under the
                        > front round bar way. The Scope lathe is the one I was looking at when I
                        > suggested the hydraulic cylinder piston rod material for use.
                        >
                        > Bruce
                        >
                        > On 7/8/2012 11:36 PM, David G. LeVine wrote:
                        >
                        >>On 07/08/2012 04:12 PM, Pat wrote:
                        >>
                        >>Just noticed: we have "center line drive" also and if the carriage is
                        >> spring loaded from the rear so that the carriage nut always presses
                        >> against one side of the lead screw thread, the carriage could have almost
                        >> no backlash (like a ball screw). Pat
                        >>Differential wear on the leadscrew will not allow you to be that precise or
                        >> that accurate.  Let's assume the first pass is 1" long offset from the
                        >> face plate by 1", the second pass is 1" long offset from the face plate by
                        >> 1.5".  After a few years, from 1" to 1.5" will have one wear pattern, from
                        >> 1.5" to 2" will show more wear and from 2" to 2.5" will show similar wear
                        >> to the first area.  Since it is common for bed wear (in older lathes) to
                        >> be 0.010" in the first few inches, I can see how an unhardened leadscrew
                        >> could be worse.
                        >>
                        >>Ballscrews rely on rolling contact, leadscrews rely on sliding contact, the
                        >> wear difference is pretty huge.  However, we are looking at relative
                        >> accuracies of 0.003" or so, replacing a leadscrew every 5-10 years is not
                        >> as bad as not having the lathe at all.  And, of course, the leadscrew can
                        >> be flipped end for end and the minimally worn end can do for another 5-10
                        > years...  So, 20 years on a cheap, subsistence lathe with heavy use, or a
                        > lifetime on one with moderate use (the usage for which we are shooting) is
                        > not a bad tradeoff.
                        >>
                        >>A 1/2-20 threaded rod is under $10, and the lathe should be replicating
                        >> itself, so one of its "offsprings" should be able to make a new leadscrew
                        >> pretty easily, or recut the old one...
                        >>
                        >>Dave  8{)
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>--
                        >>"The first method for estimating the intelligence of a ruler is to look at
                        >> the men he has around him."
                        >>Niccolo Machiavelli
                        >>
                        >>NOTE TO ALL:
                        >>When forwarding emails, please use only "Blind Carbon Copy" or "Bcc" for
                        >> all recipients. Please "delete" or "highlight & cut" any forwarding
                        >> history which includes my email address! It is a courtesy to me and others
                        >> who may not wish to have their email addresses sent all over the world!
                        >> Erasing the history helps prevent Spammers from mining addresses and
                        >> viruses from being propagated.
                        >>
                        >>THANK YOU!
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • David G. LeVine
                        ... It is interesting to note that the Kneller Scope had two features that the multimachine might want to emulate: 1. On a lathe, the Z axis is parallel to
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jul 9, 2012
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                          On 07/09/2012 02:10 AM, Bruce Bellows wrote:
                          http://www.lathes.co.uk/scope/
                          http://www.lathes.co.uk/kneller/index.html

                          It is interesting to note that the Kneller "Scope" had two features that the multimachine might want to emulate:
                          1. On a lathe, the Z axis is parallel to the bed, most lathes provide either Y and Z motion or X and Z motion, the Scope provides X, Y and Z motion, the cross slide can lift to allow special operations.  This can be VERY useful.
                          2. The tailstock is an indexer, so for some operations, regular features (like gear teeth and flange bolt patterns) can easily be machined.

                          Do either of these sound rational as add-ons for the MM?

                          Dave  8{)

                          --
                          "The first method for estimating the intelligence of a ruler is to look at the men he has around him."
                          Niccolo Machiavelli

                          NOTE TO ALL:

                          When forwarding emails, please use only "Blind Carbon Copy" or "Bcc" for all recipients. Please "delete" or "highlight & cut" any forwarding history which includes my email address! It is a courtesy to me and others who may not wish to have their email addresses sent all over the world! Erasing the history helps prevent Spammers from mining addresses and viruses from being propagated.


                          THANK YOU!
                        • David G. LeVine
                          ... Also note two things here: 1. The head (rather than the carriage) can be elevated. 2. The back gears are helically cut to reduce noise and cyclic error.
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jul 9, 2012
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                            On 07/09/2012 08:22 AM, Bruce Bellows wrote:
                            Here is another one that is different but still a round bar lathe. Worth 
                            checking out.
                            
                            http://www.lathes.co.uk/almkvist/index.html
                            
                            Also note two things here:
                            1. The head (rather than the carriage) can be elevated.
                            2. The back gears are helically cut to reduce noise and cyclic error.

                            Dave  8{)


                            --
                            "The first method for estimating the intelligence of a ruler is to look at the men he has around him."
                            Niccolo Machiavelli

                            NOTE TO ALL:

                            When forwarding emails, please use only "Blind Carbon Copy" or "Bcc" for all recipients. Please "delete" or "highlight & cut" any forwarding history which includes my email address! It is a courtesy to me and others who may not wish to have their email addresses sent all over the world! Erasing the history helps prevent Spammers from mining addresses and viruses from being propagated.


                            THANK YOU!
                          • Pierre Coueffin
                            They also have a shaper attachment that goes on the tailstock. With that setup, you d want an indexer on the headstock though. It d be perfect for cutting
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jul 9, 2012
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                              They also have a shaper attachment that goes on the tailstock. With
                              that setup, you'd want an indexer on the headstock though. It'd be
                              perfect for cutting splined holes, and annuli for planetary gear
                              arrangements. If you wanted to repair an automatic transmission for
                              example, it could be handy to be able to braze up a stripped tooth and
                              re-cut it with the shaper and indexer.

                              I think that if I were designing it, I'd want to be able to mount the
                              index plate on the headstock, the tailstock, or on an auxillary
                              spindle on the cross slide. That way, you build one part, and it just
                              does whatever is most convenient.

                              An index plate with a simple collar and setscrew that fits the back of
                              your spindle where the drive pulley normally goes can do some very
                              interesting things. If the tailstock ram and your auxillary spindle
                              have the same size shaft, then you have some very interesting
                              possibilities.

                              On 7/9/12, David G. LeVine <dlevine@...> wrote:
                              > On 07/09/2012 02:10 AM, Bruce Bellows wrote:
                              >> http://www.lathes.co.uk/scope/
                              >> http://www.lathes.co.uk/kneller/index.html
                              >
                              > It is interesting to note that the Kneller "Scope" had two features that
                              > the multimachine might want to emulate:
                              >
                              > 1. On a lathe, the Z axis is parallel to the bed, most lathes provide
                              > either Y and Z motion or X and Z motion, the Scope provides X, Y and
                              > Z motion, the cross slide can lift to allow special operations.
                              > This can be VERY useful.
                              > 2. The tailstock is an indexer, so for some operations, regular
                              > features (like gear teeth and flange bolt patterns) can easily be
                              > machined.
                              >
                              > Do either of these sound rational as add-ons for the MM?
                              >
                              > Dave 8{)
                              >
                              > --
                              > /"The first method for estimating the intelligence of a ruler is to look
                              > at the men he has around him."/
                              > Niccolo Machiavelli
                              >
                              > /
                              > NOTE TO ALL:
                              >
                              >
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                              >
                              > THANK YOU!
                              >
                            • David G. LeVine
                              ... In the same vein, the same shaper can cut (or chase) splines on shafts. This can be a major win if the spline on the input shaft of the transmission is
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jul 9, 2012
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                                On 07/09/2012 08:00 PM, Pierre Coueffin wrote:
                                They also have a shaper attachment that goes on the tailstock.  With
                                that setup, you'd want an indexer on the headstock though.  It'd be
                                perfect for cutting splined holes, and annuli for planetary gear
                                arrangements.  If you wanted to repair an automatic transmission for
                                example, it could be handy to be able to braze up a stripped tooth and
                                re-cut it with the shaper and indexer.

                                In the same vein, the same shaper can cut (or chase) splines on shafts.  This can be a major win if the spline on the input shaft of the transmission is found to be worn or bent and the clutch plate "hangs up" sometimes.

                                Dave  8{)

                                --
                                "The first method for estimating the intelligence of a ruler is to look at the men he has around him."
                                Niccolo Machiavelli

                                NOTE TO ALL:

                                When forwarding emails, please use only "Blind Carbon Copy" or "Bcc" for all recipients. Please "delete" or "highlight & cut" any forwarding history which includes my email address! It is a courtesy to me and others who may not wish to have their email addresses sent all over the world! Erasing the history helps prevent Spammers from mining addresses and viruses from being propagated.


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