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New concrete lathe update

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  • rigmatch
    In 01 concrete lathe How to build file folder. This one includes dimensioned drawings for an earlier model. Dimensions will remain the same on the new
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 6, 2011
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      In 01 concrete lathe How to build file folder.
      This one includes dimensioned drawings for an earlier model. Dimensions will remain the same on the new drawings.

      Getting close!
    • Jack Coats
      Looking into some of the documents about Yoeman s lathe, they mention type metal . There are some notes that it is no longer available. But metal for
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 6, 2011
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        Looking into some of the documents about Yoeman's lathe, they mention 'type metal'.
        There are some notes that it is no longer available.  But metal for typesetting is typically
        a soft, low melting point metal.


        Above is an article that that talks about several versions of type metal.  Has someone
        looked into using some reasonable kind of a version of it?

        Lead, tin, and antimony are all available, even if not easily.  It is possible to use them
        and be safe, even if there is a prohibition to using lead in anything in Europe (or at least
        electronic equipment, and I am guessing other stuff too.  It isn't a good idea to release
        it into the 'environment', but it still can be used.  

        If you do decide to use this stuff, be careful and use current technology protections.
        Breathing fumes of lead seems to be especially bad, so be extra careful, but don't be afraid!

        Doing a quick search on the 'net, rotometals.com sells various low melting temperature
        alloys including those with lead and without.  I am sure there are other vendors out there
        too.

      • Pierre Coueffin
        The low-melting point is not the main reason that such metals were used as a bearing surface though. A lot of non lead bearing low melting point alloys will
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 6, 2011
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          The low-melting point is not the main reason that such metals were used as a bearing surface though.  A lot of non lead bearing low melting point alloys will have a much higher coefficient of friction against a steel part. 

          On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 5:47 PM, Jack Coats <jack@...> wrote:
          Doing a quick search on the 'net, rotometals.com sells various low melting temperature
          alloys including those with lead and without.  I am sure there are other vendors out there
          too.

        • Jack Coats
          I am guessing one of the reasons Yoeman s used a low melting point medium (type set metal) was because it was easy to use, and they really weren t making a
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 6, 2011
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            I am guessing one of the reasons Yoeman's used a low melting point medium (type set metal) was because it was easy to use, and they really weren't making a 'long life span' machine.  If it worked for a year and it was still needed, a new one could be made (probably cheaper than repair).

            The idea of using sulfur (sulphur) is interesting.  I know it gets pretty brittle in its pure or cake form.  Still it might work, but I suspect the vibration might crack it out pretty easily.

            The place I noted before with metals doesn't just have low melting point metals but lots of metals and spec's on the metals.  Might be a good place to look for the properties desired.

            From my understanding the lead/bismuth/antimony type metals are pretty resilient.  Metals like babbitt make pretty good castable bearings, so those would not .  I wonder what attributes might be best for holding rods in concrete since I could see them having some vibration issues, but not to much in twisting or longitudinal forces?
          • Pat
            A special type-metal was used because at a certain temp. when poured it did not shrink or expand.
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 6, 2011
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              A special type-metal was used because at a certain temp. when poured it did not shrink or expand.

              --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Pierre Coueffin <pcoueffin@...> wrote:
              >
              > The low-melting point is not the main reason that such metals were used as a
              > bearing surface though. A lot of non lead bearing low melting point alloys
              > will have a much higher coefficient of friction against a steel part.
              >
              > On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 5:47 PM, Jack Coats <jack@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Doing a quick search on the 'net, rotometals.com sells various low melting
              > > temperature
              > > alloys including those with lead and without. I am sure there are other
              > > vendors out there
              > > too.
              > >
              >
            • David G. LeVine
              ... The other problem is that the metal should not shrink or, at worst, expand only slightly during casting. If it shrinks, the ways will be loose. Dave 8{)
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 6, 2011
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                On 10/06/2011 08:47 PM, Jack Coats wrote: Looking into some of the documents about Yoeman's lathe, they mention 'type metal'.
                There are some notes that it is no longer available.  But metal for typesetting is typically
                a soft, low melting point metal.

                The other problem is that the metal should not shrink or, at worst, expand only slightly during casting.  If it shrinks, the ways will be loose.

                Dave  8{)

                --
                "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
                (quoted from http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30060)

                NOTE TO ALL:

                When forwarding emails, please use only "Blind Carbon Copy" or "Bcc" for all recipients. Please "delete" or "highlight & cut" any forwarding history which includes my email address! It is a courtesy to me and others who may not wish to have their email addresses sent all over the world! Erasing the history helps prevent Spammers from mining addresses and viruses from being propagated.

                THANK YOU!
              • Shannon DeWolfe
                A few months ago I mentioned to Pat that type metal is still available. He pointed out that the type metal used by Yeomans was an unknown receipt that he
                Message 7 of 12 , Oct 6, 2011
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                  A few months ago I mentioned to Pat that type metal is still available.
                  He pointed out that the type metal used by Yeomans was an unknown
                  receipt that he alloyed specifically for zero shrink to lock the ways in
                  place.

                  For the concrete lathe there can be no shrinkage or the pipes will spin
                  freely in their sockets. There can be no growth either; cracked concrete
                  would result.

                  Grout will grow and shrink at the same rate as the concrete. Can we
                  guarantee that a recommended white metal will do that?

                  Remember too, grout and cement are common building materials in poor
                  countries. Type metal is not so plentiful.

                  Regards,

                  Mr. Shannon DeWolfe
                  --I've taken to using Mr. because my name misleads folks on the WWW. I am a 55 year old fat man.


                  On 10/6/2011 8:56 PM, Jack Coats wrote:
                  > I am guessing one of the reasons Yoeman's used a low melting point
                  > medium (type set metal) was because it was easy to use, and they
                  > really weren't making a 'long life span' machine.
                • louis richardson
                  lintotype lead is still avalible, its used by reloaders for hard bullets,lookfor reloading supliers. ... From: David G. LeVine Subject:
                  Message 8 of 12 , Oct 6, 2011
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                    lintotype lead is still avalible, its used by reloaders for hard bullets,lookfor reloading supliers.

                    --- On Thu, 10/6/11, David G. LeVine <dlevine@...> wrote:

                    From: David G. LeVine <dlevine@...>
                    Subject: Re: [multimachine] New concrete lathe update
                    To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Thursday, October 6, 2011, 10:44 PM

                     
                    On 10/06/2011 08:47 PM, Jack Coats wrote:
                    Looking into some of the documents about Yoeman's lathe, they mention 'type metal'.
                    There are some notes that it is no longer available.  But metal for typesetting is typically
                    a soft, low melting point metal.

                    The other problem is that the metal should not shrink or, at worst, expand only slightly during casting.  If it shrinks, the ways will be loose.

                    Dave  8{)

                    --
                    "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
                    (quoted from http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30060)

                    NOTE TO ALL:

                    When forwarding emails, please use only "Blind Carbon Copy" or "Bcc" for all recipients. Please "delete" or "highlight & cut" any forwarding history which includes my email address! It is a courtesy to me and others who may not wish to have their email addresses sent all over the world! Erasing the history helps prevent Spammers from mining addresses and viruses from being propagated.

                    THANK YOU!
                  • louis richardson
                    lintotype lead is still avalible, its used by reloaders for hard bullets,lookfor reloading supliers. ... From: David G. LeVine Subject:
                    Message 9 of 12 , Oct 6, 2011
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                      lintotype lead is still avalible, its used by reloaders for hard bullets,lookfor reloading supliers.

                      --- On Thu, 10/6/11, David G. LeVine <dlevine@...> wrote:

                      From: David G. LeVine <dlevine@...>
                      Subject: Re: [multimachine] New concrete lathe update
                      To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Thursday, October 6, 2011, 10:44 PM

                       
                      On 10/06/2011 08:47 PM, Jack Coats wrote:
                      Looking into some of the documents about Yoeman's lathe, they mention 'type metal'.
                      There are some notes that it is no longer available.  But metal for typesetting is typically
                      a soft, low melting point metal.

                      The other problem is that the metal should not shrink or, at worst, expand only slightly during casting.  If it shrinks, the ways will be loose.

                      Dave  8{)

                      --
                      "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
                      (quoted from http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30060)

                      NOTE TO ALL:

                      When forwarding emails, please use only "Blind Carbon Copy" or "Bcc" for all recipients. Please "delete" or "highlight & cut" any forwarding history which includes my email address! It is a courtesy to me and others who may not wish to have their email addresses sent all over the world! Erasing the history helps prevent Spammers from mining addresses and viruses from being propagated.

                      THANK YOU!
                    • louis richardson
                      lintotype lead is still avalible, its used by reloaders for hard bullets,lookfor reloading supliers. ... From: David G. LeVine Subject:
                      Message 10 of 12 , Oct 6, 2011
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                        lintotype lead is still avalible, its used by reloaders for hard bullets,lookfor reloading supliers.

                        --- On Thu, 10/6/11, David G. LeVine <dlevine@...> wrote:

                        From: David G. LeVine <dlevine@...>
                        Subject: Re: [multimachine] New concrete lathe update
                        To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Thursday, October 6, 2011, 10:44 PM

                         
                        On 10/06/2011 08:47 PM, Jack Coats wrote:
                        Looking into some of the documents about Yoeman's lathe, they mention 'type metal'.
                        There are some notes that it is no longer available.  But metal for typesetting is typically
                        a soft, low melting point metal.

                        The other problem is that the metal should not shrink or, at worst, expand only slightly during casting.  If it shrinks, the ways will be loose.

                        Dave  8{)

                        --
                        "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
                        (quoted from http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30060)

                        NOTE TO ALL:

                        When forwarding emails, please use only "Blind Carbon Copy" or "Bcc" for all recipients. Please "delete" or "highlight & cut" any forwarding history which includes my email address! It is a courtesy to me and others who may not wish to have their email addresses sent all over the world! Erasing the history helps prevent Spammers from mining addresses and viruses from being propagated.

                        THANK YOU!
                      • louis richardson
                        lintotype lead is still avalible, its used by reloaders for hard bullets,look for reloading supliers. ... From: David G. LeVine
                        Message 11 of 12 , Oct 6, 2011
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                          lintotype lead is still avalible, its used by reloaders for hard bullets,look for reloading supliers.

                          --- On Thu, 10/6/11, David G. LeVine <dlevine@...> wrote:

                          From: David G. LeVine <dlevine@...>
                          Subject: Re: [multimachine] New concrete lathe update
                          To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Thursday, October 6, 2011, 10:44 PM

                           
                          On 10/06/2011 08:47 PM, Jack Coats wrote:
                          Looking into some of the documents about Yoeman's lathe, they mention 'type metal'.
                          There are some notes that it is no longer available.  But metal for typesetting is typically
                          a soft, low melting point metal.

                          The other problem is that the metal should not shrink or, at worst, expand only slightly during casting.  If it shrinks, the ways will be loose.

                          Dave  8{)

                          --
                          "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
                          (quoted from http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30060)

                          NOTE TO ALL:

                          When forwarding emails, please use only "Blind Carbon Copy" or "Bcc" for all recipients. Please "delete" or "highlight & cut" any forwarding history which includes my email address! It is a courtesy to me and others who may not wish to have their email addresses sent all over the world! Erasing the history helps prevent Spammers from mining addresses and viruses from being propagated.

                          THANK YOU!
                        • Pat
                          Please go back to the original Machinery articles and read about the type metal. He used a secret type-metal alloy that had to be poured within a 20 degree
                          Message 12 of 12 , Oct 7, 2011
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                            Please go back to the original Machinery articles and read about the type metal.

                            He used a secret type-metal alloy that had to be poured within a 20 degree temperature range. This is too hard for us to even think about especially since non-shrinking grout seems to be available in most of the world.

                            If you want to think about things, think about an easily built concrete milling machine. After a decent "how to" is done and publicizing the lathe is started, that is what I am going to do.

                            This is what I have so far,
                            A horizontal concrete lathe type bed with ways 24" apart.

                            A one piece spindle that just turns, it does not go in and out. Speeds are varied by stepped pulleys on a jack shaft.

                            A concrete cube shaped carriage (with grouted in adjustable wear strips) that fits between the ways with 2 holes cast in for 2" pipe rollers running in Yeomans type cartridges.

                            The ways can be rotated to correct for wear.

                            A heavy Romig type cross slide with lead screws on both sides of the slides that are connected by timing belts.

                            The carriage/"vertical" (actually horizontal) slide could weigh almost anything. (remember that "small" horizontal mill tables used to weigh 3000 pounds for a reason) yet could still be easily moved as would be needed for a "fine" feed.

                            I started thinking about this years before I heard of Yeomans. His ideas make the machine more practical.

                            I got the idea for this long ago by seeing how easily a heavy plate would slide on a greasy milling table.

                            What do you think?

                            Pat








                            --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, louis richardson <louisrfnauto@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > lintotype lead is still avalible, its used by reloaders for hard bullets,look for reloading supliers.
                            >
                            > --- On Thu, 10/6/11, David G. LeVine <dlevine@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > From: David G. LeVine <dlevine@...>
                            > Subject: Re: [multimachine] New concrete lathe update
                            > To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                            > Date: Thursday, October 6, 2011, 10:44 PM
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                            > On 10/06/2011 08:47 PM, Jack Coats wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Looking into some of the documents about Yoeman's lathe, they
                            > mention 'type metal'.
                            > There are some notes that it is no longer available.  But
                            > metal for typesetting is typically
                            > a soft, low melting point metal.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > The other problem is that the metal should not shrink or, at worst,
                            > expand only slightly during casting.  If it shrinks, the ways will
                            > be loose.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Dave  8{)
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --
                            >
                            > "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a
                            > delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an
                            > unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition
                            > that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean
                            > end."
                            >
                            > (quoted from http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30060)
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > NOTE TO ALL:
                            >
                            >
                            > When forwarding emails, please use only "Blind Carbon Copy" or
                            > "Bcc" for all recipients. Please "delete" or "highlight & cut"
                            > any forwarding history which includes my email address! It is a
                            > courtesy to me and others who may not wish to have their email
                            > addresses sent all over the world! Erasing the history helps
                            > prevent Spammers from mining addresses and viruses from being
                            > propagated.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > THANK YOU!
                            >
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