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Re: Pipe sizes in Europe

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  • costasv
    No at least in our country,and in all Balkans, a 1 plumbers water pipe, has a 1 external diameter.The problem is , that with the years, they started reducing
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 30, 2011
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      No
      at least in our country,and in all Balkans, a 1" plumbers water pipe, has a 1" external diameter.The problem is , that with the years, they started reducing their thickness .So now we have yellow, red, and green labeled tubes.The best one is green labeled, but depends from the factory .For a professional work, I'm using only green labeled tubes, and from well known producer.Yellow labeled is used only for not water applications since they are too thick.
      Non ferrous materials like inox, copper, plastics,are only in millimeters since most of them came from Europe, and are metric.
      Heavy black tubes that have no longitudinal welding line, produced with the 'Mannassman' way, can be found in metrics too, since they came from Germany or France These tubes are used in water air conditioning systems, overheated oil systems and generally more difficult situations .
      Costas

      --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Pierre Coueffin <pcoueffin@...> wrote:
      >
      > In the books I've read, they usually make a distinction between "pipe" and
      > "tube" with pipe being the stuff used to carry household water, and using a
      > very strange sizing system based on the internal diameter of the old lead or
      > iron pipes originally used to carry the water.
      >
      > That is: a 1" modern pipe will fit into the same fittings (ie have the same
      > OD and thread) as the ancient lead pipe having a 1" ID hole. Since a modern
      > steel, copper or plastic pipe needs less wall thickness than that ancient
      > pipe did, the ID of the pipe does not even resemble 1"... How weird is
      > that?
      >
      > Tube on the other hand is an engineering material, and is defined in terms
      > of OD, wall thickness and length (and if it was welded or drawn over a
      > mandrel), and can be expected to be a fairly good match on the nominal
      > sizes. It is also much, much more expensive, and harder to come by.
      > Dimensions can be imperial or metric.
      >
      > I suspect that the aluminum, cuper and inox pipe that Costas has encountered
      > would fall into the "tube" category...
      >
      > On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 11:14 PM, costasv <cvgoodphones317@...> wrote:
      >
      > > **
      > >
      > > in Europe ,we too, are using imperial system on pipes .Exept for aliminium,
      > > cuper,and inox pipes .
      > >
      >
    • Jose Manuel Luis
      Unless you use a taper accessorie in your lathe. But you can make straigth threads and use teflon tape or something similar to make it leak proof. You have to
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 1, 2011
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        Unless you use a taper accessorie in your lathe.
        But you can make straigth threads and use teflon tape or something similar to make it leak proof. You have to use it anyway even if the threads are tapered. But you have to be more cautious not to overthigth the accessorie to avoid breaking it.
        Ideally and to be "by the book" they should be tapered but 100% of the threads I see done by the local machinist are straigth.
         
        Jose 

        From: costasv
        Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 5:32 AM
        Subject: [multimachine] Re: Pipe sizes in Europe

         

        Hi Dennis
        Normally, plumbing threads are made tapered .That is,plumber's tools are doing this kind of threads.If you machine these threads on the lathe, they are straight.
        Costas

        --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, DennisF MacIntyre <a1g2r3i@...> wrote:

        >
        > Dear Costas
        >
        These pipes you are referring to, that use the imperial system of measurement, do they use a tapered thread or a straight thread with an "O" ring and a shoulder?
        > keep smiling
        > dennis mac
        >

      • Pierre Coueffin
        Interesting... I ve always thought that our local system where a 1 pipe has no 1 dimension anywhere, was a terrible compromise. But at least changing the
        Message 3 of 14 , Oct 3, 2011
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          Interesting... I've always thought that our local system where a 1" pipe has no 1" dimension anywhere, was a terrible compromise.  But at least changing the pipe thickness while maintaining the OD at least maintains compatibility of all the fittings.

          An awful lot of non plumbing things use a 1" NPT thread to attach pipe... I have a set of hydraulic jacks that use pipe "extensions"...

          On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 9:51 PM, costasv <cvgoodphones317@...> wrote:

          at least in our country,and in all Balkans, a 1" plumbers water pipe, has a 1" external diameter.The problem is , that with the years, they started reducing their thickness .So now we have yellow, red, and green labeled tubes.The best one is green labeled, but depends from the factory .For a professional work, I'm using only green labeled tubes, and from well known producer.Yellow labeled is used only for not water applications since they are too thick.


        • Jose Manuel Luis
          Well I guess there s a misunderstanding somewhere, the 1 is ID and not OD. A 1 plumbing pipe or tube or whatever you call it in english has 33.7mm OD and a
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 3, 2011
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            Well I guess there's a misunderstanding somewhere, the 1" is ID and not OD.
            A 1" plumbing pipe or tube or whatever you call it in english has 33.7mm OD and a thickness os 3.2mm, a 2" plumbing pipe has 60.3mm OD and 3.6mm tickness and so on. That way a plumber can open threads in every 1" pipes regardless of their thickness. We also have here the "Light ", "Medium" and "Reinforced" kind of plumbing or "iron"pipes as we call it, the OD is the same but the tickness changes. You shouldn't open a thread in "Ligth" kind of pipes because they're too thin and the thread will almost cut througth it's wall.
            If you make the math you'll see that the 1" has 27.3mm ID, I don't know why, I guess this is because the reinforced has 33.7mm OD and 4.05 wall thickness which gives us an ID of 25.6mm. So they have the math done for the reinforced series, I think.
            Steel and Stainlees steel pipes are in mm and measured OD, an 1/2" Stainless steel pipes is called a: 21.3x2.6mm pipe and so on. There's charts with these sizes.
             
            Hope this will help.
             
            Jose.
             

            Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 6:34 PM
            Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: Pipe sizes in Europe

             

            Interesting... I've always thought that our local system where a 1" pipe has no 1" dimension anywhere, was a terrible compromise.  But at least changing the pipe thickness while maintaining the OD at least maintains compatibility of all the fittings.

            An awful lot of non plumbing things use a 1" NPT thread to attach pipe... I have a set of hydraulic jacks that use pipe "extensions"...

            On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 9:51 PM, costasv <cvgoodphones317@...> wrote:

            at least in our country,and in all Balkans, a 1" plumbers water pipe, has a 1" external diameter.The problem is , that with the years, they started reducing their thickness .So now we have yellow, red, and green labeled tubes.The best one is green labeled, but depends from the factory .For a professional work, I'm using only green labeled tubes, and from well known producer.Yellow labeled is used only for not water applications since they are too thick.


          • Pat Delany
            Really confused now! What I was doing was to design a desktop lathe based on the snug fit of 1 pipe when slipped over 3/4 pipe ways. I would really like to
            Message 5 of 14 , Oct 3, 2011
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              Really confused now! What I was doing was to design a desktop lathe based on the snug fit of 1" pipe when slipped over 3/4" pipe ways. I would really like to know how universal this is. Many of you will recognize that the idea comes from the WW2 "slam bang" 12 ga. shotgun. 
              I wonder if chrome plated pipe is exactly the same size as standard pipe? Maybe a moot question since the 1" pipe is split anyway and could be opened or closed a little.

              This could be a very cool screw cutting lathe easily built for almost nothing!

              Pat


              From: Jose Manuel Luis <zmdluis@...>
              To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, October 3, 2011 3:48 PM
              Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: Pipe sizes in Europe

               
              Well I guess there's a misunderstanding somewhere, the 1" is ID and not OD.
              A 1" plumbing pipe or tube or whatever you call it in english has 33.7mm OD and a thickness os 3.2mm, a 2" plumbing pipe has 60.3mm OD and 3.6mm tickness and so on. That way a plumber can open threads in every 1" pipes regardless of their thickness. We also have here the "Light ", "Medium" and "Reinforced" kind of plumbing or "iron"pipes as we call it, the OD is the same but the tickness changes. You shouldn't open a thread in "Ligth" kind of pipes because they're too thin and the thread will almost cut througth it's wall.
              If you make the math you'll see that the 1" has 27.3mm ID, I don't know why, I guess this is because the reinforced has 33.7mm OD and 4.05 wall thickness which gives us an ID of 25.6mm. So they have the math done for the reinforced series, I think.
              Steel and Stainlees steel pipes are in mm and measured OD, an 1/2" Stainless steel pipes is called a: 21.3x2.6mm pipe and so on. There's charts with these sizes.
               
              Hope this will help.
               
              Jose.
               

              Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 6:34 PM
              Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: Pipe sizes in Europe

               
              Interesting... I've always thought that our local system where a 1" pipe has no 1" dimension anywhere, was a terrible compromise.  But at least changing the pipe thickness while maintaining the OD at least maintains compatibility of all the fittings.

              An awful lot of non plumbing things use a 1" NPT thread to attach pipe... I have a set of hydraulic jacks that use pipe "extensions"...

              On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 9:51 PM, costasv <cvgoodphones317@...> wrote:
              at least in our country,and in all Balkans, a 1" plumbers water pipe, has a 1" external diameter.The problem is , that with the years, they started reducing their thickness .So now we have yellow, red, and green labeled tubes.The best one is green labeled, but depends from the factory .For a professional work, I'm using only green labeled tubes, and from well known producer.Yellow labeled is used only for not water applications since they are too thick.



            • Jack Coats
              Wikipedia has an interesting article on Nominal Pipe Sizes and wall thickness Schedule numbers. Most of the dimensions are listed in both inches and mm ....
              Message 6 of 14 , Oct 3, 2011
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                Wikipedia has an interesting article on Nominal Pipe Sizes and wall thickness Schedule numbers.  Most of the dimensions are listed in both inches and mm ....


                The article also mentioned that for tubing (vs pipe) the OD is the same as the stated size.  For pipe that is not the case.  Tubing is supposed to have tighter engineering requirements that pipe.

                It seems the European standard for Nominal Pipe size is DN (A French term translated as Nominal Diameter).  The ND of pipes are also noted in the Wikipedia article above.

                I don't consider Wikipedia a canonical source of information, but it is not a bad first blush at finding base reference data.

                I hope this helps some.  ...  Jack
              • Jose Manuel Luis
                Hello. I ll try to scan a table with the nominal size and the diameter of pipes and post it on the list. Jose. From: Jack Coats Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011
                Message 7 of 14 , Oct 3, 2011
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                  Hello.
                  I'll try to scan a table with the nominal size and the diameter of pipes and post it on the list.
                   
                  Jose. 

                  Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 11:16 PM
                  Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: Pipe sizes in Europe

                   

                  Wikipedia has an interesting article on Nominal Pipe Sizes and wall thickness Schedule numbers.  Most of the dimensions are listed in both inches and mm ....



                  The article also mentioned that for tubing (vs pipe) the OD is the same as the stated size.  For pipe that is not the case.  Tubing is supposed to have tighter engineering requirements that pipe.

                  It seems the European standard for Nominal Pipe size is DN (A French term translated as Nominal Diameter).  The ND of pipes are also noted in the Wikipedia article above.

                  I don't consider Wikipedia a canonical source of information, but it is not a bad first blush at finding base reference data.

                  I hope this helps some.  ...  Jack

                • Jose Manuel Luis
                  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6917112/Cat%C3%A1logo%20Estrutural%20-%20Chagas%5B1%5D.pdf Here s the link to a catalog with a lot of tech data about pipes, flat bars,
                  Message 8 of 14 , Oct 3, 2011
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                    Here's the link to a catalog with a lot of tech data about pipes, flat bars, corners, sheet metal plates, etc..
                    Hope you'll find it useful in spite of beeing in Portuguese, nice time to learn a few technical terms in " a língua de Camões" Piscar o olho Ícone Expressivo.
                    But the DIN norms and the abreviations are all the same in Portuguese or English.
                    It is on my dropbox folder but it is not a copyrigth material, it can be downloaded freely from the seller's site, it is not an ilegal download in any way.
                     
                     
                    Jose
                     
                     

                    Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 10:19 PM
                    Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: Pipe sizes in Europe

                     

                    Really confused now! What I was doing was to design a desktop lathe based on the snug fit of 1" pipe when slipped over 3/4" pipe ways. I would really like to know how universal this is. Many of you will recognize that the idea comes from the WW2 "slam bang" 12 ga. shotgun. 
                    I wonder if chrome plated pipe is exactly the same size as standard pipe? Maybe a moot question since the 1" pipe is split anyway and could be opened or closed a little.

                    This could be a very cool screw cutting lathe easily built for almost nothing!

                    Pat


                    From: Jose Manuel Luis <zmdluis@...>
                    To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, October 3, 2011 3:48 PM
                    Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: Pipe sizes in Europe

                     
                    Well I guess there's a misunderstanding somewhere, the 1" is ID and not OD.
                    A 1" plumbing pipe or tube or whatever you call it in english has 33.7mm OD and a thickness os 3.2mm, a 2" plumbing pipe has 60.3mm OD and 3.6mm tickness and so on. That way a plumber can open threads in every 1" pipes regardless of their thickness. We also have here the "Light ", "Medium" and "Reinforced" kind of plumbing or "iron"pipes as we call it, the OD is the same but the tickness changes. You shouldn't open a thread in "Ligth" kind of pipes because they're too thin and the thread will almost cut througth it's wall.
                    If you make the math you'll see that the 1" has 27.3mm ID, I don't know why, I guess this is because the reinforced has 33.7mm OD and 4.05 wall thickness which gives us an ID of 25.6mm. So they have the math done for the reinforced series, I think.
                    Steel and Stainlees steel pipes are in mm and measured OD, an 1/2" Stainless steel pipes is called a: 21.3x2.6mm pipe and so on. There's charts with these sizes.
                     
                    Hope this will help.
                     
                    Jose.
                     

                    Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 6:34 PM
                    Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: Pipe sizes in Europe

                     
                    Interesting... I've always thought that our local system where a 1" pipe has no 1" dimension anywhere, was a terrible compromise.  But at least changing the pipe thickness while maintaining the OD at least maintains compatibility of all the fittings.

                    An awful lot of non plumbing things use a 1" NPT thread to attach pipe... I have a set of hydraulic jacks that use pipe "extensions"...

                    On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 9:51 PM, costasv <cvgoodphones317@...> wrote:
                    at least in our country,and in all Balkans, a 1" plumbers water pipe, has a 1" external diameter.The problem is , that with the years, they started reducing their thickness .So now we have yellow, red, and green labeled tubes.The best one is green labeled, but depends from the factory .For a professional work, I'm using only green labeled tubes, and from well known producer.Yellow labeled is used only for not water applications since they are too thick.



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