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Re: [multimachine] Re: I bought a 1947 Logan model 200

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  • HB
    How does citric acid compare to the proven commercially sold rust removers like CLR and EvapoRust? Is there a price/cost advantage in using citric acid
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 1, 2011
      How does citric acid compare to the proven commercially sold rust removers like CLR and EvapoRust?
      Is there a price/cost advantage in using citric acid instead?
       
      I know that CLR and EvapoRust only attack the rust in steel and leave the clean steel without any chemical reaction.
      However, CLR do react fast with zinc but slower with brass.
       
       
      --- On Thu, 12/30/10, Bruce <bbellows@...> wrote:

      From: Bruce <bbellows@...>
      Subject: [multimachine] Re: I bought a 1947 Logan model 200
      To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, December 30, 2010, 7:40 PM

       
      Citric acid also works quite well and I purchase it in powder form at a drug store. I also have a good article on removing rust with it that I'll place in the files section. I'm currently working on getting an Atlas #7 metal shaper that is also rust coated but it's all assembled and in good condition.

      Bruce

      --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Shannon DeWolfe <sdewolfe@...> wrote:
      >
      > Keith,
      >
      > It is complete except for the fifth leg that supports the motor and
      > countershaft assembly. I can weld up some angle iron for that. It didn't
      > come with instructions but the next best thing; exploded parts diagrams. ;-)
      >
      > On Sunday I will strip it down to the bed so my son and I can carry it
      > into the shed. Right now it is covered with canvas, still sitting on the
      > trailer. Also on Sunday I will start soaking small parts in vinegar to
      > remove rust. Then it is a matter of one step at a time.
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > Mr. Shannon DeWolfe
      > --I've taken to using Mr. because my name misleads folks on the WWW. I am a 54 year old fat man.
      >
      >
      > On 12/24/2010 10:49 PM, keith gutshall wrote:
      > > It doesn't look to bad ,if you got all the parts.
      >


    • Bruce Bellows
      The thing I like about citric acid is that it does a good job and is safe to handle. It is mixed in water to what ever strength I desire. With the commercial
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 2, 2011
        The thing I like about citric acid is that it does a good job and is safe to handle. It is mixed in water to what ever strength I desire. With the commercial stuff you get what you get. Citric acid comes in powder form and I paid $10.00 for 500g, I haven't done the calculations to see how many gallons it would make but I will for the group. I think all these different options being presented are great and maybe a comparison study would be helpful. I know that I have 3 of the products being suggested, Citric Acid, CLR and vinegar. Now I just need some rusty steel. That shouldn't be hard to find :)

        Bruce

        On 1/1/2011 4:42 AM, HB wrote:
         

        How does citric acid compare to the proven commercially sold rust removers like CLR and EvapoRust?
        Is there a price/cost advantage in using citric acid instead?
         
        I know that CLR and EvapoRust only attack the rust in steel and leave the clean steel without any chemical reaction.
        However, CLR do react fast with zinc but slower with brass.
         
         
        --- On Thu, 12/30/10, Bruce <bbellows@...> wrote:

        From: Bruce <bbellows@...>
        Subject: [multimachine] Re: I bought a 1947 Logan model 200
        To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, December 30, 2010, 7:40 PM

         
        Citric acid also works quite well and I purchase it in powder form at a drug store. I also have a good article on removing rust with it that I'll place in the files section. I'm currently working on getting an Atlas #7 metal shaper that is also rust coated but it's all assembled and in good condition.

        Bruce

        --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Shannon DeWolfe <sdewolfe@...> wrote:
        >
        > Keith,
        >
        > It is complete except for the fifth leg that supports the motor and
        > countershaft assembly. I can weld up some angle iron for that. It didn't
        > come with instructions but the next best thing; exploded parts diagrams. ;-)
        >
        > On Sunday I will strip it down to the bed so my son and I can carry it
        > into the shed. Right now it is covered with canvas, still sitting on the
        > trailer. Also on Sunday I will start soaking small parts in vinegar to
        > remove rust. Then it is a matter of one step at a time.
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > Mr. Shannon DeWolfe
        > --I've taken to using Mr. because my name misleads folks on the WWW. I am a 54 year old fat man.
        >
        >
        > On 12/24/2010 10:49 PM, keith gutshall wrote:
        > > It doesn't look to bad ,if you got all the parts.
        >


      • keith gutshall
        Hi Bruce  I have a few pieces you can test.  I think Rust never sleeps here in Floridia.I have some cast iron faceplates; you can clean them today,and
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 2, 2011
          Hi Bruce
           I have a few pieces you can test.
           I think Rust never sleeps here in Floridia.I have some cast iron faceplates;
          you can clean them today,and tomorrow they are rusted.
          Keith


          Deep Run Portage
          Back Shop
          " The Lizard Works"

          --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Bruce Bellows <bbellows@...> wrote:

          From: Bruce Bellows <bbellows@...>
          Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: I bought a 1947 Logan model 200
          To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 11:51 AM

           
          The thing I like about citric acid is that it does a good job and is safe to handle. It is mixed in water to what ever strength I desire. With the commercial stuff you get what you get. Citric acid comes in powder form and I paid $10.00 for 500g, I haven't done the calculations to see how many gallons it would make but I will for the group. I think all these different options being presented are great and maybe a comparison study would be helpful. I know that I have 3 of the products being suggested, Citric Acid, CLR and vinegar. Now I just need some rusty steel. That shouldn't be hard to find :)

          Bruce

          On 1/1/2011 4:42 AM, HB wrote:
           
          How does citric acid compare to the proven commercially sold rust removers like CLR and EvapoRust?
          Is there a price/cost advantage in using citric acid instead?
           
          I know that CLR and EvapoRust only attack the rust in steel and leave the clean steel without any chemical reaction.
          However, CLR do react fast with zinc but slower with brass.
           
           
          --- On Thu, 12/30/10, Bruce <bbellows@...> wrote:

          From: Bruce <bbellows@...>
          Subject: [multimachine] Re: I bought a 1947 Logan model 200
          To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Thursday, December 30, 2010, 7:40 PM

           
          Citric acid also works quite well and I purchase it in powder form at a drug store. I also have a good article on removing rust with it that I'll place in the files section. I'm currently working on getting an Atlas #7 metal shaper that is also rust coated but it's all assembled and in good condition.

          Bruce

          --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Shannon DeWolfe <sdewolfe@...> wrote:
          >
          > Keith,
          >
          > It is complete except for the fifth leg that supports the motor and
          > countershaft assembly. I can weld up some angle iron for that. It didn't
          > come with instructions but the next best thing; exploded parts diagrams. ;-)
          >
          > On Sunday I will strip it down to the bed so my son and I can carry it
          > into the shed. Right now it is covered with canvas, still sitting on the
          > trailer. Also on Sunday I will start soaking small parts in vinegar to
          > remove rust. Then it is a matter of one step at a time.
          >
          > Regards,
          >
          > Mr. Shannon DeWolfe
          > --I've taken to using Mr. because my name misleads folks on the WWW. I am a 54 year old fat man.
          >
          >
          > On 12/24/2010 10:49 PM, keith gutshall wrote:
          > > It doesn't look to bad ,if you got all the parts.
          >



        • Alan Millar
          ... I ve used this method, and it works great. It is inexpensive, easy, and quite effective. I think I spent about $3 on a box of washing soda from the
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 2, 2011
            On Dec 31, 2010, at 3:49 AM, GGB wrote:
            > Keith wrote:>Would something like W-D 40 work better and not
            > corrade the bare metal?
            >
            > Bill's electrolysis page http://antique-engines.com/electrol.asp
            > Washing soda and a battery charger will strip rust and oil from
            > steel and cast iron surfaces.

            I've used this method, and it works great. It is inexpensive, easy,
            and quite effective. I think I spent about $3 on a box of washing
            soda from the laundry aisle at the grocery store, and I already had
            the car battery charger. Good stuff.

            - Alan
          • GGB
            ... Thanks. There is another advantage which is that the alkali (unlike acid) does not in any way attack the metal you are cleaning. Paul
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 2, 2011
              Alan Millar wrote:
              >
              > I've used this method, and it works great.

              Thanks. There is another advantage which is that the alkali (unlike acid) does not in any way attack the metal you are cleaning.

              Paul
            • HB
              That may be true if you limit yourself to just steel or iron metals. Alkalis such as Sodium Hydroxide attack metals such as aluminum, zinc, or magnesium.  
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 2, 2011
                That may be true if you limit yourself to just steel or iron metals.
                Alkalis such as Sodium Hydroxide attack metals such as aluminum, zinc, or magnesium.
                 

                 --- On Sun, 1/2/11, GGB <self.adhesive@...> wrote:


                From: GGB <self.adhesive@...>
                Subject: [multimachine] Re: I bought a 1947 Logan model 200
                To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 12:25 PM


                 Alan Millar wrote:
                >
                > I've used this method, and it works great.

                Thanks. There is another advantage which is that the alkali (unlike acid) does not in any way attack the metal you are cleaning.

                Paul
              • HB
                Are they not coated with oil? In the Far East where it s always humid and hot all year round , unpainted cast iron machine parts are simply coated with oil to
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 2, 2011
                  Are they not coated with oil?
                  In the Far East where it's always humid and hot all year round , unpainted cast iron machine parts are simply coated with oil to prevent rusting.

                  --- On Sun, 1/2/11, keith gutshall <drpshops@...> wrote:

                  From: keith gutshall <drpshops@...>
                  Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: I bought a 1947 Logan model 200
                  To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 10:32 AM

                   
                  Hi Bruce
                   I have a few pieces you can test.
                   I think Rust never sleeps here in Floridia.I have some cast iron faceplates;
                  you can clean them today,and tomorrow they are rusted.
                  Keith


                  Deep Run Portage
                  Back Shop
                  " The Lizard Works"

                  --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Bruce Bellows <bbellows@...> wrote:

                  From: Bruce Bellows <bbellows@...>
                  Subject: Re: [multimachine] Re: I bought a 1947 Logan model 200
                  To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 11:51 AM

                   
                  The thing I like about citric acid is that it does a good job and is safe to handle. It is mixed in water to what ever strength I desire. With the commercial stuff you get what you get. Citric acid comes in powder form and I paid $10.00 for 500g, I haven't done the calculations to see how many gallons it would make but I will for the group. I think all these different options being presented are great and maybe a comparison study would be helpful. I know that I have 3 of the products being suggested, Citric Acid, CLR and vinegar. Now I just need some rusty steel. That shouldn't be hard to find :)

                  Bruce

                  On 1/1/2011 4:42 AM, HB wrote:
                   
                  How does citric acid compare to the proven commercially sold rust removers like CLR and EvapoRust?
                  Is there a price/cost advantage in using citric acid instead?
                   
                  I know that CLR and EvapoRust only attack the rust in steel and leave the clean steel without any chemical reaction.
                  However, CLR do react fast with zinc but slower with brass.
                   
                   
                  --- On Thu, 12/30/10, Bruce <bbellows@...> wrote:

                  From: Bruce <bbellows@...>
                  Subject: [multimachine] Re: I bought a 1947 Logan model 200
                  To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Thursday, December 30, 2010, 7:40 PM

                   
                  Citric acid also works quite well and I purchase it in powder form at a drug store. I also have a good article on removing rust with it that I'll place in the files section. I'm currently working on getting an Atlas #7 metal shaper that is also rust coated but it's all assembled and in good condition.

                  Bruce

                  --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Shannon DeWolfe <sdewolfe@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Keith,
                  >
                  > It is complete except for the fifth leg that supports the motor and
                  > countershaft assembly. I can weld up some angle iron for that. It didn't
                  > come with instructions but the next best thing; exploded parts diagrams. ;-)
                  >
                  > On Sunday I will strip it down to the bed so my son and I can carry it
                  > into the shed. Right now it is covered with canvas, still sitting on the
                  > trailer. Also on Sunday I will start soaking small parts in vinegar to
                  > remove rust. Then it is a matter of one step at a time.
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  >
                  > Mr. Shannon DeWolfe
                  > --I've taken to using Mr. because my name misleads folks on the WWW. I am a 54 year old fat man.
                  >
                  >
                  > On 12/24/2010 10:49 PM, keith gutshall wrote:
                  > > It doesn't look to bad ,if you got all the parts.
                  >




                • Pierre Coueffin
                  Did anyone mention a 1:5 mixture of molasses and water? http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/rust/rust_molasses.htm I ve seen it mentioned by guys who restore
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jan 7, 2011
                    Did anyone mention a 1:5 mixture of molasses and water? 

                    http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/rust/rust_molasses.htm

                    I've seen it mentioned by guys who restore antiques because it is very gentle on the parts, but it takes some time to work...

                    On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Shannon DeWolfe <sdewolfe@...> wrote:
                    I settled on four methods to

                    test:

                    1. Acid etch with vinegar and salt.
                    2. Acid etch and surface conversion to iron phosphate with phosphoric
                    acid. (Etch and Prep).
                    3. Chelation with a commercial product.
                    4. Electrolysis.


                  • Shannon DeWolfe
                    Pierre, I considered molasses but decided against using it because molasses does act very slowly; up to several weeks. Regards, Mr. Shannon DeWolfe --I ve
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jan 7, 2011
                      Pierre,

                      I considered molasses but decided against using it because molasses does
                      act very slowly; up to several weeks.

                      Regards,

                      Mr. Shannon DeWolfe
                      --I've taken to using Mr. because my name misleads folks on the WWW. I am a 54 year old fat man.


                      On 1/7/2011 1:30 PM, Pierre Coueffin wrote:
                      > but it takes some time to work...
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