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Re: Torque Required to Produce 2000 Pounds Thrust in Cole Drill

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  • wombat4622603
    Good luck on that project. I will be interested in your progress. How deep a throat do you deem neccessary for that type of drill? David Wimberley
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 1, 2005
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      Good luck on that project. I will be interested in your progress. How
      deep a throat do you deem neccessary for that type of drill?

      David Wimberley
      > David
      > Thank you very very much. I'm going to try to build
      > one for underdeveloped countries this week. I bought a
      > 5 buck 1/2" chuck from HF that has a 1/2" x 20 thread.
      > I'm going to run it through a 6" 1/2" pipe nipple and
      > grind a hex on the other end for a socket and use a
      > ratchet to turn it. I'll make a lever for down
      > pressure. About as simple as it gets!
      >
      > Pat
      >
    • kwolson2002
      Pat - An interesting, and possibly simpler, alternative drill for some applications might be a beam drill, also called an engineer s drill or a ratchet(ing)
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 2, 2005
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        Pat -

        An interesting, and possibly simpler, alternative drill for some
        applications might be a beam drill, also called an engineer's drill
        or a ratchet(ing) drill. Basically, a ratchet head (more or less
        conceptually similar to a socket driver) with a male cone on the
        upper end and a drill chuck or female Morse taper on the other. A
        steel beam (I-beam or even a piece of salvaged rail road rail, for
        our purposes) is used a lever, with suspended weights and an
        overhead fulcrum, supply the downforce.

        These are still made. At least one example is from Armstrong Tools.
        A drilling frame, here called a drilling post, is also available to
        create the downforce.

        drill:
        http://www.armstrongtools.com/catalog/products.jsp?groupID=1260

        frame:
        http://www.armstrongtools.com/catalog/products.jsp?groupID=1258

        This is another means by which the required holes could by made to
        assemble the Multimachine. Once made, this would be useful when
        punching hole on the middle of large plates and so forth, as well,
        permitting a small shop to pretend that it had a small radial drill.

        Kevin

        --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Pat Delany <rigmatch@y...>
        wrote:
        >
        > David
        > Thank you very very much. I'm going to try to build
        > one for underdeveloped countries this week. I bought a
        > 5 buck 1/2" chuck from HF that has a 1/2" x 20 thread.
        > I'm going to run it through a 6" 1/2" pipe nipple and
        > grind a hex on the other end for a socket and use a
        > ratchet to turn it. I'll make a lever for down
        > pressure. About as simple as it gets!
        >
        > Pat
        >
        >
        > --- wombat4622603 <davidwi@n...> wrote:
        >
        > > (Was "Re: another cold drill on eBay now")
        > >
        > > I used a book entitled "Machine Design Fundamentals,
        > > a Practical
        > > Approach" by HIndhede et. al. They use the
        > > following rough
        > > approximation. Torque equals a constant times the
        > > diameter of the
        > > screw times the axial force produced. In order to
        > > find a constant,
        > > they have a nomograph that considers the lubrication
        > > of the threaded
        > > joint, the diameter of the fastener, and the threads
        > > per inch.. I
        > > selected the condition of threads greased with
        > > molybdenum disulfide
        > > grease (the this might just be powdered molybdenum
        > > disulfide -- it
        > > wasn't clear)
        > >
        > > The nomograph yields a constant of .13. Less well
        > > lubricated threads
        > > might yield a constant of .14. The torque in inch
        > > pounds is .13 x
        > > 1.25 x 2000, or 325 inch pounds. This is about 27.1
        > > foot pounds.
        > >
        > > The above calculation was predicated on fastener
        > > threads. A
        > > scrupulously lubricated Acme or square thread would
        > > be more
        > > efficient. It is important to lubricate the face of
        > > the knot as well
        > > as the threads to reduce friction as much as
        > > possible.
        > >
        > > Just in case you're interested, in a frictionless
        > > situation I
        > > calculate that you would only need 5.3 foot pounds.
        > > If you apply 1
        > > pound for a revolution at a distance of 1 foot, you
        > > will travel pi
        > > times one or 3.14 feet. This is equivalent to 37.68
        > > inches. At the
        > > same time, the kn will travel the thread pitch, or
        > > 0.1 inches.
        > > Mechanical advantage, is therefore 376.8.
        > >
        > > This means that 1 foot pounds torque would produce
        > > 376.8 pounds of
        > > thrust. 5.3 foot pounds of torque would then
        > > produce 2000 pounds.
        > >
        > > David Wimberley
        > >
        > > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "Pat Delany"
        > > <rigmatch@y...>
        > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Mine just arrived, shows some rust but little use.
        > > It has a 3 inch
        > > > long 1 1/4" 10 tpi hollow screw with a 2" nut on
        > > the top that forces
        > > > the bit into the metal. An 8" long handle turns
        > > the drill spindle
        > > that
        > > > passes through the 1 1/4" screw. The company
        > > claimed 1000 lbs of
        > > force
        > > > could be exerted on the bit.
        > > > Can someone tell me how much pressure is put on
        > > the bit per foot
        > > pound
        > > > of torque on the 2" nut?
        > > >
        > > > It seems to me that my lever operated "cole drill"
        > > (photos, delany
        > > > drill) would work, especially with a wife sitting
        > > on the end of a 6
        > > or
        > > > 8 fot long lever!
        > > >
        > > > Pat
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________
        > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
        > http://mail.yahoo.com
        >
      • kwolson2002
        Here s another link to a catalog picture of a very similar, older ratchet drill. This one very clearly has the feed screw as part of the male cone, opposite
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 3, 2005
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          Here's another link to a catalog picture of a very similar, older
          ratchet drill. This one very clearly has the feed screw as part of
          the male cone, opposite the bit. That is likely also the case with
          the Armstrong, though it seems that some older "beam" drill simply
          relied on the force applied by the weight acting on the beam. Note
          also the attachment for drilling pipe, below the drill itself.

          http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?
          image_id=339&sessionid=974947851423832a4053301dc3f90ccc

          Sorry, the link will have to be cut and pasted in two parts because
          of the length of the URL.

          I'm thinking it might be possible to easily modify a brace to
          operate in a similar fashion. I'm going to mess with this with the
          old Stanley brace I picked up.

          Kevin


          --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "kwolson2002"
          <kwayneolson@h...> wrote:
          >
          > Pat -
          >
          > An interesting, and possibly simpler, alternative drill for some
          > applications might be a beam drill, also called an engineer's
          drill
          > or a ratchet(ing) drill. Basically, a ratchet head (more or less
          > conceptually similar to a socket driver) with a male cone on the
          > upper end and a drill chuck or female Morse taper on the other. A
          > steel beam (I-beam or even a piece of salvaged rail road rail, for
          > our purposes) is used a lever, with suspended weights and an
          > overhead fulcrum, supply the downforce.
          >
          > These are still made. At least one example is from Armstrong
          Tools.
          > A drilling frame, here called a drilling post, is also available
          to
          > create the downforce.
          >
          > drill:
          > http://www.armstrongtools.com/catalog/products.jsp?groupID=1260
          >
          > frame:
          > http://www.armstrongtools.com/catalog/products.jsp?groupID=1258
          >
          > This is another means by which the required holes could by made to
          > assemble the Multimachine. Once made, this would be useful when
          > punching hole on the middle of large plates and so forth, as well,
          > permitting a small shop to pretend that it had a small radial
          drill.
          >
          > Kevin
          >
          > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Pat Delany <rigmatch@y...>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > David
          > > Thank you very very much. I'm going to try to build
          > > one for underdeveloped countries this week. I bought a
          > > 5 buck 1/2" chuck from HF that has a 1/2" x 20 thread.
          > > I'm going to run it through a 6" 1/2" pipe nipple and
          > > grind a hex on the other end for a socket and use a
          > > ratchet to turn it. I'll make a lever for down
          > > pressure. About as simple as it gets!
          > >
          > > Pat
          > >
          > >
          > > --- wombat4622603 <davidwi@n...> wrote:
          > >
          > > > (Was "Re: another cold drill on eBay now")
          > > >
          > > > I used a book entitled "Machine Design Fundamentals,
          > > > a Practical
          > > > Approach" by HIndhede et. al. They use the
          > > > following rough
          > > > approximation. Torque equals a constant times the
          > > > diameter of the
          > > > screw times the axial force produced. In order to
          > > > find a constant,
          > > > they have a nomograph that considers the lubrication
          > > > of the threaded
          > > > joint, the diameter of the fastener, and the threads
          > > > per inch.. I
          > > > selected the condition of threads greased with
          > > > molybdenum disulfide
          > > > grease (the this might just be powdered molybdenum
          > > > disulfide -- it
          > > > wasn't clear)
          > > >
          > > > The nomograph yields a constant of .13. Less well
          > > > lubricated threads
          > > > might yield a constant of .14. The torque in inch
          > > > pounds is .13 x
          > > > 1.25 x 2000, or 325 inch pounds. This is about 27.1
          > > > foot pounds.
          > > >
          > > > The above calculation was predicated on fastener
          > > > threads. A
          > > > scrupulously lubricated Acme or square thread would
          > > > be more
          > > > efficient. It is important to lubricate the face of
          > > > the knot as well
          > > > as the threads to reduce friction as much as
          > > > possible.
          > > >
          > > > Just in case you're interested, in a frictionless
          > > > situation I
          > > > calculate that you would only need 5.3 foot pounds.
          > > > If you apply 1
          > > > pound for a revolution at a distance of 1 foot, you
          > > > will travel pi
          > > > times one or 3.14 feet. This is equivalent to 37.68
          > > > inches. At the
          > > > same time, the kn will travel the thread pitch, or
          > > > 0.1 inches.
          > > > Mechanical advantage, is therefore 376.8.
          > > >
          > > > This means that 1 foot pounds torque would produce
          > > > 376.8 pounds of
          > > > thrust. 5.3 foot pounds of torque would then
          > > > produce 2000 pounds.
          > > >
          > > > David Wimberley
          > > >
          > > > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "Pat Delany"
          > > > <rigmatch@y...>
          > > > wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Mine just arrived, shows some rust but little use.
          > > > It has a 3 inch
          > > > > long 1 1/4" 10 tpi hollow screw with a 2" nut on
          > > > the top that forces
          > > > > the bit into the metal. An 8" long handle turns
          > > > the drill spindle
          > > > that
          > > > > passes through the 1 1/4" screw. The company
          > > > claimed 1000 lbs of
          > > > force
          > > > > could be exerted on the bit.
          > > > > Can someone tell me how much pressure is put on
          > > > the bit per foot
          > > > pound
          > > > > of torque on the 2" nut?
          > > > >
          > > > > It seems to me that my lever operated "cole drill"
          > > > (photos, delany
          > > > > drill) would work, especially with a wife sitting
          > > > on the end of a 6
          > > > or
          > > > > 8 fot long lever!
          > > > >
          > > > > Pat
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > __________________________________
          > > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
          > > http://mail.yahoo.com
          > >
          >
        • Max Kennedy
          How about using the modern pass through rachet from canadian tire? It can use the old sockets with the more solid core. Mount a screw press above it and have
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 3, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            How about using the modern pass through rachet from canadian tire?  It can use the old sockets with the more solid core.  Mount a screw press above it and have a short piece of rod passing through the ratchet through hole putting vertical pressure on the socket.  Ratchet the socket to drill and crank the press to apply pressure.  As you are only putting pressure on the socket not the ratcheting mechanism It should work.

            kwolson2002 <kwayneolson@...> wrote:
            Here's another link to a catalog picture of a very similar, older
            ratchet drill. This one very clearly has the feed screw as part of
            the male cone, opposite the bit. That is likely also the case with
            the Armstrong, though it seems that some older "beam" drill simply
            relied on the force applied by the weight acting on the beam. Note
            also the attachment for drilling pipe, below the drill itself.

            http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?
            image_id=339&sessionid=974947851423832a4053301dc3f90ccc

            Sorry, the link will have to be cut and pasted in two parts because
            of the length of the URL.

            I'm thinking it might be possible to easily modify a brace to
            operate in a similar fashion. I'm going to mess with this with the
            old Stanley brace I picked up.

            Kevin


            --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "kwolson2002"
            <kwayneolson@h...> wrote:
            >
            > Pat -
            >
            > An interesting, and possibly simpler, alternative drill for some
            > applications might be a beam drill, also called an engineer's
            drill
            > or a ratchet(ing) drill. Basically, a ratchet head (more or less
            > conceptually similar to a socket driver) with a male cone on the
            > upper end and a drill chuck or female Morse taper on the other. A
            > steel beam (I-beam or even a piece of salvaged rail road rail, for
            > our purposes) is used a lever, with suspended weights and an
            > overhead fulcrum, supply the downforce.
            >
            > These are still made. At least one example is from Armstrong
            Tools.
            > A drilling frame, here called a drilling post, is also available
            to
            > create the downforce.
            >
            > drill:
            > http://www.armstrongtools.com/catalog/products.jsp?groupID=1260
            >
            > frame:
            > http://www.armstrongtools.com/catalog/products.jsp?groupID=1258
            >
            > This is another means by which the required holes could by made to
            > assemble the Multimachine. Once made, this would be useful when
            > punching hole on the middle of large plates and so forth, as well,
            > permitting a small shop to pretend that it had a small radial
            drill.
            >
            > Kevin
            >
            > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Pat Delany <rigmatch@y...>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > David
            > > Thank you very very much. I'm going to try to build
            > > one for underdeveloped countries this week. I bought a
            > > 5 buck 1/2" chuck from HF that has a 1/2" x 20 thread.
            > > I'm going to run it through a 6" 1/2" pipe nipple and
            > > grind a hex on the other end for a socket and use a
            > > ratchet to turn it. I'll make a lever for down
            > > pressure. About as simple as it gets!
            > >
            > > Pat
            > >
            > >
            > > --- wombat4622603 <davidwi@n...> wrote:
            > >
            > > > (Was "Re: another cold drill on eBay now")
            > > >
            > > > I used a book entitled "Machine Design Fundamentals,
            > > > a Practical
            > > > Approach" by HIndhede et. al.   They use the
            > > > following rough
            > > > approximation.  Torque equals a constant times the
            > > > diameter of the
            > > > screw times the axial force produced.  In order to
            > > > find a constant,
            > > > they have a nomograph that considers the lubrication
            > > > of the threaded
            > > > joint, the diameter of the fastener, and the threads
            > > > per inch..  I
            > > > selected the condition of threads greased with
            > > > molybdenum disulfide
            > > > grease (the this might just be powdered molybdenum
            > > > disulfide -- it
            > > > wasn't clear)
            > > >
            > > > The nomograph yields a constant of .13.  Less well
            > > > lubricated threads
            > > > might yield a constant of .14.  The torque in inch
            > > > pounds is .13 x
            > > > 1.25 x 2000, or 325 inch pounds.  This is about 27.1
            > > > foot pounds.
            > > >
            > > > The above calculation was predicated on fastener
            > > > threads.  A
            > > > scrupulously lubricated Acme or square thread would
            > > > be more
            > > > efficient.  It is important to lubricate the face of
            > > > the knot as well
            > > > as the threads to reduce friction as much as
            > > > possible.
            > > >
            > > > Just in case you're interested, in a frictionless
            > > > situation I
            > > > calculate that you would only need 5.3 foot pounds.
            > > > If you apply 1
            > > > pound for a revolution at a distance of 1 foot, you
            > > > will travel pi
            > > > times one or 3.14 feet.  This is equivalent to 37.68
            > > > inches.  At the
            > > > same time, the kn will travel the thread pitch, or
            > > > 0.1 inches. 
            > > > Mechanical advantage, is therefore 376.8.
            > > >
            > > > This means that 1 foot pounds torque would produce
            > > > 376.8 pounds of
            > > > thrust.  5.3 foot pounds of torque would then
            > > > produce 2000 pounds.
            > > >
            > > > David Wimberley
            > > >
            > > > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "Pat Delany"
            > > > <rigmatch@y...>
            > > > wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Mine just arrived, shows some rust but little use.
            > > > It has a 3 inch
            > > > > long 1 1/4" 10 tpi hollow screw with a 2" nut on
            > > > the top that forces
            > > > > the bit into the metal. An 8" long handle turns
            > > > the drill spindle
            > > > that
            > > > > passes through the 1 1/4" screw. The company
            > > > claimed 1000 lbs of
            > > > force
            > > > > could be exerted on the bit.
            > > > > Can someone tell me how much pressure is put on
            > > > the bit per foot
            > > > pound
            > > > > of torque on the 2" nut?
            > > > >
            > > > > It seems to me that my lever operated "cole drill"
            > > > (photos, delany
            > > > > drill) would work, especially with a wife sitting
            > > > on the end of a 6
            > > > or
            > > > > 8 fot long lever!
            > > > >
            > > > > Pat
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >      
            > >            
            > > __________________________________
            > > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
            > > http://mail.yahoo.com
            > >
            >




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