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Re: [multimachine] Re: Alternatives to Re-boring?/more

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  • keith gutshall
    Hello JohnH I have an idea about the bushings, and alineing them.  Take a lage diameter tube an fit the outside to the bore size and  fit the needed bushings
    Message 1 of 25 , Nov 30, 2009
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      Hello JohnH
      I have an idea about the bushings, and alineing them.
       Take a lage diameter tube an fit the outside to the bore size and
       fit the needed bushings in it.
       It would be soild to keep the thrust forces in check.
       
       Keith

      Deep Run Portage
      Back Shop
      " The Lizard Works"

      --- On Mon, 11/30/09, JohnH <jgdhiggins@...> wrote:

      From: JohnH <jgdhiggins@...>
      Subject: [multimachine] Re: Alternatives to Re-boring?/more
      To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, November 30, 2009, 3:28 PM

       
      Hey, Pat! Hope you had an excellent Thanksgiving.

      I'm going to get started on this project ASAP, but I didn't want to start another thread when this one is perfectly good.

      I'm trying to come up with a design for a portable MM built out of two four-cylinder engines (smaller and easier for me to get, space and effort/money are a premium).

      In what ways would you modify the design to these specifications? Also, is there a handy guide to installing and aligning bushings in this context?

      --- In multimachine@ yahoogroups. com, "Pat" <rigmatch@.. .> wrote:
      >
      > Sorry for the delay in answering this. In my case I found a block that was rejected after it had been re-bored.
      >
      > A proper answer to this question is to re-trace my thoughts over the 8 years this project has been going on. At first I wanted fool-proof spindle accuracy and it really did work out that way. I have since been influenced by many things:
      > (1) "oil-patch" machining that is only as accurate as it has to be to work since anything else is too expensive and the parts usually run in a mixture of grease and dirt anyway.
      > (2) The extreme poverty of much of the world
      > (3) The idea the idea that most work is done in the area of a 4 or 5 inch cube.
      > (4) The beautiful work done by experts with totally worn out machines.
      > My personal goal now is showing mechanical type people (American retirees too) a way to survive. I have no interest(or skills) in accuracy for its own sake. It just costs too much.
      >
      > I guess it boils down to finding the absolute cheapest way to produce parts with the proper fit and finish needed to work.
      > Making a trip to the tool store an inexpensive, once a year experience is also very important to me.
      >
      > NOW TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION at last! Do the front bearing as best you can and then mount the rear bearing on a plate bolted to the oil pan surface. Now the important part!! Align the rear bearing by measuring from a rod (mounted at right angle to the back of the spindle) to the oil pan surface. Measure in a 360 degree circle by using a straight edge. The spindle may not be exactly centered but it will be at rt. angle to the block and that is all that matters.
      >
      > Pat
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In multimachine@ yahoogroups. com, "jgdhiggins" <jgdhiggins@ > wrote:
      > >
      > > Is there a reason why this was not practical in the Multimachine that you built?
      > >
      > > --- In multimachine@ yahoogroups. com, "Pat" <rigmatch@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > If the cylinder has not been "ridge reamed" then use the ridge and the lightly worn bottom of the cylinder to work from.
      > > >
      > > > Pat
      > > >
      > > > --- In multimachine@ yahoogroups. com, "jgdhiggins" <jgdhiggins@ > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > If, as the case may be, taking the engine block to a machinist to be re-bored proves impossible, are there any methods to proceed regardless without sacrificing accuracy?
      > > > >
      > > > > I've wondered about simply using aluminum bushings, but I imagine there must be problems with this approach, or else it would be more commonly used.
      > > > >
      > > > > Is there maybe an older way to re-bore something such as an engine cylinder, to the same expected accuracy, by hand?
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >


    • Pat
      Got to think about this! The big question is how much money? There can be a huge variation in cost between different spindle designs. If you have access to a
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 1, 2009
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        Got to think about this! The big question is how much money? There can be a huge variation in cost between different spindle designs. If you have access to a wood lathe then an almost free one could be based on a back axle shaft with wooden bearing retainers and pulleys. There would be no spindle bore but good lathes in the 1800s did not have them either. Another chance to save is in the width of the plates. 8" could work with small blocks and would be cheaper and more portable.

        Once you had a faceplate to work with then you could make metal parts needed for a pipe spindle that could have an accurate end machined in place. Attach some kind of a hub on the end and machine it to fit a 6" Ebay chuck. Build an over sized Romig carriage and you would have a serious but really cheap machine.

        Pat

        --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "JohnH" <jgdhiggins@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hey, Pat! Hope you had an excellent Thanksgiving.
        >
        > I'm going to get started on this project ASAP, but I didn't want to start another thread when this one is perfectly good.
        >
        > I'm trying to come up with a design for a portable MM built out of two four-cylinder engines (smaller and easier for me to get, space and effort/money are a premium).
        >
        > In what ways would you modify the design to these specifications? Also, is there a handy guide to installing and aligning bushings in this context?
        >
        > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "Pat" <rigmatch@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Sorry for the delay in answering this. In my case I found a block that was rejected after it had been re-bored.
        > >
        > > A proper answer to this question is to re-trace my thoughts over the 8 years this project has been going on. At first I wanted fool-proof spindle accuracy and it really did work out that way. I have since been influenced by many things:
        > > (1) "oil-patch" machining that is only as accurate as it has to be to work since anything else is too expensive and the parts usually run in a mixture of grease and dirt anyway.
        > > (2) The extreme poverty of much of the world
        > > (3) The idea the idea that most work is done in the area of a 4 or 5 inch cube.
        > > (4) The beautiful work done by experts with totally worn out machines.
        > > My personal goal now is showing mechanical type people (American retirees too) a way to survive. I have no interest(or skills) in accuracy for its own sake. It just costs too much.
        > >
        > > I guess it boils down to finding the absolute cheapest way to produce parts with the proper fit and finish needed to work.
        > > Making a trip to the tool store an inexpensive, once a year experience is also very important to me.
        > >
        > > NOW TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION at last! Do the front bearing as best you can and then mount the rear bearing on a plate bolted to the oil pan surface. Now the important part!! Align the rear bearing by measuring from a rod (mounted at right angle to the back of the spindle) to the oil pan surface. Measure in a 360 degree circle by using a straight edge. The spindle may not be exactly centered but it will be at rt. angle to the block and that is all that matters.
        > >
        > > Pat
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "jgdhiggins" <jgdhiggins@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Is there a reason why this was not practical in the Multimachine that you built?
        > > >
        > > > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "Pat" <rigmatch@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > If the cylinder has not been "ridge reamed" then use the ridge and the lightly worn bottom of the cylinder to work from.
        > > > >
        > > > > Pat
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "jgdhiggins" <jgdhiggins@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > If, as the case may be, taking the engine block to a machinist to be re-bored proves impossible, are there any methods to proceed regardless without sacrificing accuracy?
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I've wondered about simply using aluminum bushings, but I imagine there must be problems with this approach, or else it would be more commonly used.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Is there maybe an older way to re-bore something such as an engine cylinder, to the same expected accuracy, by hand?
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Pat
        More about simple cheap and portable I just missed 3 aluminum blocks at the junkyard for $20 each (the usual core price I think). The pipe overarm could be a
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 1, 2009
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          More about simple cheap and portable

          I just missed 3 aluminum blocks at the junkyard for $20 each (the usual core price I think). The pipe overarm could be a lot more expensive than a third block mounted overhead. Put ways on this and use it to hold a hor. mill arbor support, a tailstock (wooden?) and a steady rest. A super machine for not much over $200.

          Pat

          --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "Pat" <rigmatch@...> wrote:
          >
          > Got to think about this! The big question is how much money? There can be a huge variation in cost between different spindle designs. If you have access to a wood lathe then an almost free one could be based on a back axle shaft with wooden bearing retainers and pulleys. There would be no spindle bore but good lathes in the 1800s did not have them either. Another chance to save is in the width of the plates. 8" could work with small blocks and would be cheaper and more portable.
          >
          > Once you had a faceplate to work with then you could make metal parts needed for a pipe spindle that could have an accurate end machined in place. Attach some kind of a hub on the end and machine it to fit a 6" Ebay chuck. Build an over sized Romig carriage and you would have a serious but really cheap machine.
          >
          > Pat
          >
          > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "JohnH" <jgdhiggins@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hey, Pat! Hope you had an excellent Thanksgiving.
          > >
          > > I'm going to get started on this project ASAP, but I didn't want to start another thread when this one is perfectly good.
          > >
          > > I'm trying to come up with a design for a portable MM built out of two four-cylinder engines (smaller and easier for me to get, space and effort/money are a premium).
          > >
          > > In what ways would you modify the design to these specifications? Also, is there a handy guide to installing and aligning bushings in this context?
          > >
          > > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "Pat" <rigmatch@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Sorry for the delay in answering this. In my case I found a block that was rejected after it had been re-bored.
          > > >
          > > > A proper answer to this question is to re-trace my thoughts over the 8 years this project has been going on. At first I wanted fool-proof spindle accuracy and it really did work out that way. I have since been influenced by many things:
          > > > (1) "oil-patch" machining that is only as accurate as it has to be to work since anything else is too expensive and the parts usually run in a mixture of grease and dirt anyway.
          > > > (2) The extreme poverty of much of the world
          > > > (3) The idea the idea that most work is done in the area of a 4 or 5 inch cube.
          > > > (4) The beautiful work done by experts with totally worn out machines.
          > > > My personal goal now is showing mechanical type people (American retirees too) a way to survive. I have no interest(or skills) in accuracy for its own sake. It just costs too much.
          > > >
          > > > I guess it boils down to finding the absolute cheapest way to produce parts with the proper fit and finish needed to work.
          > > > Making a trip to the tool store an inexpensive, once a year experience is also very important to me.
          > > >
          > > > NOW TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION at last! Do the front bearing as best you can and then mount the rear bearing on a plate bolted to the oil pan surface. Now the important part!! Align the rear bearing by measuring from a rod (mounted at right angle to the back of the spindle) to the oil pan surface. Measure in a 360 degree circle by using a straight edge. The spindle may not be exactly centered but it will be at rt. angle to the block and that is all that matters.
          > > >
          > > > Pat
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "jgdhiggins" <jgdhiggins@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Is there a reason why this was not practical in the Multimachine that you built?
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "Pat" <rigmatch@> wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > If the cylinder has not been "ridge reamed" then use the ridge and the lightly worn bottom of the cylinder to work from.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Pat
          > > > > >
          > > > > > --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, "jgdhiggins" <jgdhiggins@> wrote:
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > If, as the case may be, taking the engine block to a machinist to be re-bored proves impossible, are there any methods to proceed regardless without sacrificing accuracy?
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > I've wondered about simply using aluminum bushings, but I imagine there must be problems with this approach, or else it would be more commonly used.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Is there maybe an older way to re-bore something such as an engine cylinder, to the same expected accuracy, by hand?
          > > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
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