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Re: [multimachine] Carriage and cross slide

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  • keith gutshall
    Hello David  Just look I my photo folder DRP shops 1 , the stuff might be there .  There is even an idea for wooden ways.    Keith Deep Run Portage Back
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 3, 2009
      Hello David
       Just look I my photo folder DRP shops 1 , the stuff might be there>
      .
       There is even an idea for wooden ways.
       
       Keith

      Deep Run Portage
      Back Shop
      " The Lizard Works"

      --- On Tue, 11/3/09, David LeVine <dlevine144@...> wrote:

      From: David LeVine <dlevine144@...>
      Subject: Re: [multimachine] Carriage and cross slide
      To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 6:57 AM

       
      keith gutshall wrote:
      >
      >
      > Hello David
      > Maybe it could be built from some flatbar and a thick plate?
      > Use all-thread rod for the leadscrew.
      > The graduated dials are the big problem to make or get.
      > Keith
      > Deep Run Portage
      > Back Shop
      > " The Lizard Works"
      >
      Keith,

      Without a concept for the poor machinist to work with, it can't happen
      very often.

      Let's start:

      Flat bar and thick plate: Yes, that can be done.

      All-thread: Not available in the local forest, any other ideas?

      Graduated dials: Easy to make, up to 6 graduations per turn requires a
      compass, 12 requires a compass and straightedge. Putting the
      graduations on a metal disk is a cold chisel and a hammer (or a rock!)

      The big problem is accurate graduated dials with 50 or 100 graduations.
      Some large number can be gotten from a gear (from a blown transmission)
      and subdivision can be done with a compass and straightedge. However,
      the RIGHT gear is never there when you want it :-(

      Personally, I am not sure that the flat stock will be the way to go.
      Maybe we should build one...

      Let's at least conceptualize one.

      --
      David G. LeVine
      Nashua, NH 03060


    • Pat Delany
      Great contribution Venkat. My choice of a store bought cross feed was a mistake for a lot of reasons but it was all I could do at the time. Strangely enough I
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 3, 2009
        Great contribution Venkat.

        My choice of a store bought cross feed was a mistake for a lot of reasons but it was all I could do at the time.

        Strangely enough I am about to build a carriage out of bar stock pieces. The Monarch 10 EE is one of the best small lathes ever built so I chose it's dimensions, 10" wide and 18" long ways. I am going to use 3/4" or  1" keystock for the legs and a piece of 3/4" x 6" wide hrs for the cross piece. 

        Ideas for very simple carriages are very welcome!!!!

        This African MM contest puts a lot of pressure on me for the design of a simple but strong carriage. In my case I am going to hang it from an overhead block that will replace the overarm.

        The overhead block will have a tailstock and center rest  that is alway aligned with the spindle. Also a carriage mounted sliding grinder for making Aloris type tool holders and for grinding hot rolled steel shapes.

        Pat


        From: Venkat <apexpreci2000@...>
        To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tue, November 3, 2009 12:48:36 AM
        Subject: [multimachine] Re: Carriage and cross slide

         



        --- In multimachine@ yahoogroups. com, keith gutshall <drpshops@.. .> wrote:

        >  The graduated dials are the big problem to make or get.

        Not really , Keith. If you have a lathe, the problem will be over. Stick (or insert) a round plate or board over the chuck. Before inserting , mark the chuck with angle marks. In the chuck hold the wheel to be marked. Keep the lathe in back gear. Hold a v tool in the tool post (in 90 deg offset to normal position so that in the forward motion it will scoop the metal)

        prepare a pointer and bolt it the headstock with the tip of the pointer touching the marked plate.

        Now to marking. By hand slowly pull the motor belt such that the pointer moves to 10 degree. Push the carriage forward such that a mark is made for , say 15 mm (5/8 in) long.(do it repeatedly with more and more depth to make the mark quite visible. Like this do for all the 10 degs. You will have markings now all over the sleeve. You can even mark for 5 degrees ( for say 5 /16 in). Take a number punch and punch numbers. (This calibration needs equating the linear traverse per revolution and dividing it by as many marks. Or even you can simply mentally equate the number of markings to a certain millimeter value as most turners do. Finally, when you are done, apply black or red paint and wipe. The paint will stay in the groove and over the letters. Your dial is ready.

        Not difficult at all. No electric current even is required. The motor is stationary all through this process. If my description is difficult, please mail me. I will send you a scanned pic of a hand drawn image.

        Venkat


      • Venkat
        Thanks Pat. To complete the discussion on marking/ engraving: Also, along with the sleeve, it is advisable to mark the periphery of the chuck itself like the
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 4, 2009
          Thanks Pat.

          To complete the discussion on marking/ engraving:

          Also, along with the sleeve, it is advisable to mark the periphery of the chuck itself like the sleeve. This way, you have a reference for the life of the chuck.

          In this design , Pattison even gives a hint about a facial indexing plate at the back end of the spindle- ostensibly for such applications like milling , engraving. You can lock the spindle at specified angles and do your milling/engraving.

          Regarding the  Cross slide:

          Any carriage must have a dovetail slideway - for simplicity. One cannot think of a rod guided carriage  which becomes short lived on wear. Dovetails are manipulatable, reworkable and improvable. And this gives them enormous advantage. One way of simplifying the dovetail maybe to mill a square slot and then fix a dovetail jib. I have seen this mechanism even in a hardworking hacksaw machine and it is very strong and accurate. This will be an easy job for an average metalworker - where only the marking and drilling skills will be prominent.

          In your readymade carriage, just add the angle adjustment just like a lathe. Multimachine has a tremendous advantage a large  swing distance and that differentiates it from others. A square turret toolholder with a spring loaded locating pin which allows unidirectional rotation is a very important addition. 

          The compound slide type carriage is not an ideal friend of a lathe. A centrally lockable tool post, with the angle adjustor is a must addition for MM. I do not think these are difficult to build for a beginner. If one wants, I will someday prepare a drawing and send along.

          Also, Pat, have you thought about a lead screw passing through one of the piston bores of the MM block ? Sounds romantic, is it not ?

          Venkat

          --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Pat Delany <rigmatch@...> wrote:
          >
          > Great contribution Venkat.
          >
          > My choice of a store bought cross feed was a mistake for a lot of reasons but it was all I could do at the time.
          >
          > Strangely enough I am about to build a carriage out of bar stock pieces. The Monarch 10 EE is one of the best small lathes ever built so I chose it's dimensions, 10" wide and 18" long ways. I am going to use 3/4" or 1" keystock for the legs and a piece of 3/4" x 6" wide hrs for the cross piece.
          >
          > Ideas for very simple carriages are very welcome!!!!
          >
          > This African MM contest puts a lot of pressure on me for the design of a simple but strong carriage. In my case I am going to hang it from an overhead block that will replace the overarm.
          >
          > The overhead block will have a tailstock and center rest that is alway aligned with the spindle. Also a carriage mounted sliding grinder for making Aloris type tool holders and for grinding hot rolled steel shapes.
          >
          > Pat
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: Venkat apexpreci2000@...
          > To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Tue, November 3, 2009 12:48:36 AM
          > Subject: [multimachine] Re: Carriage and cross slide
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In multimachine@ yahoogroups. com, keith gutshall drpshops@ .> wrote:
          >
          > > The graduated dials are the big problem to make or get.
          >
          > Not really , Keith. If you have a lathe, the problem will be over. Stick (or insert) a round plate or board over the chuck. Before inserting , mark the chuck with angle marks. In the chuck hold the wheel to be marked. Keep the lathe in back gear. Hold a v tool in the tool post (in 90 deg offset to normal position so that in the forward motion it will scoop the metal)
          >
          > prepare a pointer and bolt it the headstock with the tip of the pointer touching the marked plate.
          >
          > Now to marking. By hand slowly pull the motor belt such that the pointer moves to 10 degree. Push the carriage forward such that a mark is made for , say 15 mm (5/8 in) long.(do it repeatedly with more and more depth to make the mark quite visible. Like this do for all the 10 degs. You will have markings now all over the sleeve. You can even mark for 5 degrees ( for say 5 /16 in). Take a number punch and punch numbers. (This calibration needs equating the linear traverse per revolution and dividing it by as many marks. Or even you can simply mentally equate the number of markings to a certain millimeter value as most turners do. Finally, when you are done, apply black or red paint and wipe. The paint will stay in the groove and over the letters. Your dial is ready.
          >
          > Not difficult at all. No electric current even is required. The motor is stationary all through this process. If my description is difficult, please mail me. I will send you a scanned pic of a hand drawn image.
          >
          > Venkat
          >
        • keith gutshall
          Hello David Finding flatbar in the sizes I want to build with can be difficult.  I can fid smaller sizes,up to 3/8x4 HRS but anything larger is  going to
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 4, 2009
            Hello David
            Finding flatbar in the sizes I want to build with can be difficult.
             I can fid smaller sizes,up to 3/8x4 HRS but anything larger is
             going to have to be ordered over the net.
             
             A long piece of all-thread is  a problem here.I did find a 6ft 3/4- 10tpi
             piece today. It was $ 20 for it.
             
             
             I have a 200 tooth saw blade for a index plate. I will work on
             Mr.Venkat idea  I will see if I can rig it up in my machine.
             Every other tooth will give 100 marks on a dial.
             
             I am thinking, that the flatbar is sort of flat to stat and would not
             need to be machined like a dovetail shape.
             A box type way could be made that would work fine.
             I would make it out of CRS, but it could be made from HRS and
             still have some degree of accuracy to the machine.
             
             HRS is not th frist choice but if that is all you have got, then that it.
             you could work with it and get a good part out of it.
             
             Keith

            Deep Run Portage
            Back Shop
            " The Lizard Works"

            --- On Tue, 11/3/09, David LeVine <dlevine144@...> wrote:

            From: David LeVine <dlevine144@...>
            Subject: Re: [multimachine] Carriage and cross slide
            To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 6:57 AM

             
            keith gutshall wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hello David
            > Maybe it could be built from some flatbar and a thick plate?
            > Use all-thread rod for the leadscrew.
            > The graduated dials are the big problem to make or get.
            > Keith
            > Deep Run Portage
            > Back Shop
            > " The Lizard Works"
            >
            Keith,

            Without a concept for the poor machinist to work with, it can't happen
            very often.

            Let's start:

            Flat bar and thick plate: Yes, that can be done.

            All-thread: Not available in the local forest, any other ideas?

            Graduated dials: Easy to make, up to 6 graduations per turn requires a
            compass, 12 requires a compass and straightedge. Putting the
            graduations on a metal disk is a cold chisel and a hammer (or a rock!)

            The big problem is accurate graduated dials with 50 or 100 graduations.
            Some large number can be gotten from a gear (from a blown transmission)
            and subdivision can be done with a compass and straightedge. However,
            the RIGHT gear is never there when you want it :-(

            Personally, I am not sure that the flat stock will be the way to go.
            Maybe we should build one...

            Let's at least conceptualize one.

            --
            David G. LeVine
            Nashua, NH 03060


          • Cassidy
            I m very interested in this!! A cheap X-Y table around here is as scarce as a hen s teeth. I ve got most of the other parts but the cost of the X-Y table is
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 17, 2009
              I'm very interested in this!!

              A cheap X-Y table around here is as scarce as a hen's teeth. I've got most of the other parts but the cost of the X-Y table is putting me off.

              Regards.

              --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Pat Delany <rigmatch@...> wrote:
              >
              > Great contribution Venkat.
              >
              > My choice of a store bought cross feed was a mistake for a lot of reasons but it was all I could do at the time.
              >
              > Strangely enough I am about to build a carriage out of bar stock pieces. The Monarch 10 EE is one of the best small lathes ever built so I chose it's dimensions, 10" wide and 18" long ways. I am going to use 3/4" or 1" keystock for the legs and a piece of 3/4" x 6" wide hrs for the cross piece.
              >
              > Ideas for very simple carriages are very welcome!!!!
              >
              > This African MM contest puts a lot of pressure on me for the design of a simple but strong carriage. In my case I am going to hang it from an overhead block that will replace the overarm.
              >
              > The overhead block will have a tailstock and center rest that is alway aligned with the spindle. Also a carriage mounted sliding grinder for making Aloris type tool holders and for grinding hot rolled steel shapes.
              >
              > Pat
              >
              >
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Venkat <apexpreci2000@...>
              > To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tue, November 3, 2009 12:48:36 AM
              > Subject: [multimachine] Re: Carriage and cross slide
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In multimachine@ yahoogroups. com, keith gutshall <drpshops@ .> wrote:
              >
              > > The graduated dials are the big problem to make or get.
              >
              > Not really , Keith. If you have a lathe, the problem will be over. Stick (or insert) a round plate or board over the chuck. Before inserting , mark the chuck with angle marks. In the chuck hold the wheel to be marked. Keep the lathe in back gear. Hold a v tool in the tool post (in 90 deg offset to normal position so that in the forward motion it will scoop the metal)
              >
              > prepare a pointer and bolt it the headstock with the tip of the pointer touching the marked plate.
              >
              > Now to marking. By hand slowly pull the motor belt such that the pointer moves to 10 degree. Push the carriage forward such that a mark is made for , say 15 mm (5/8 in) long.(do it repeatedly with more and more depth to make the mark quite visible. Like this do for all the 10 degs. You will have markings now all over the sleeve. You can even mark for 5 degrees ( for say 5 /16 in). Take a number punch and punch numbers. (This calibration needs equating the linear traverse per revolution and dividing it by as many marks. Or even you can simply mentally equate the number of markings to a certain millimeter value as most turners do. Finally, when you are done, apply black or red paint and wipe. The paint will stay in the groove and over the letters. Your dial is ready.
              >
              > Not difficult at all. No electric current even is required. The motor is stationary all through this process. If my description is difficult, please mail me. I will send you a scanned pic of a hand drawn image.
              >
              > Venkat
              >
            • Pat Delany
              Hi Cassidy How about bolting barstock to the top of the block for the bed and then making a carriage like a simplified but scaled up version of the Romig 6
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 17, 2009
                Hi Cassidy

                How about bolting barstock to the top of the block for the bed and then making a carriage like  a simplified but scaled up version of the Romig 6" turret lathe in "files".

                Pat


                From: Cassidy <cassidymeyer@...>
                To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tue, November 17, 2009 11:00:30 AM
                Subject: [multimachine] Re: Carriage and cross slide / more

                 

                I'm very interested in this!!

                A cheap X-Y table around here is as scarce as a hen's teeth. I've got most of the other parts but the cost of the X-Y table is putting me off.

                Regards.

                --- In multimachine@ yahoogroups. com, Pat Delany <rigmatch@.. .> wrote:
                >
                > Great contribution Venkat.
                >
                > My choice of a store bought cross feed was a mistake for a lot of reasons but it was all I could do at the time.
                >
                > Strangely enough I am about to build a carriage out of bar stock pieces. The Monarch 10 EE is one of the best small lathes ever built so I chose it's dimensions, 10" wide and 18" long ways. I am going to use 3/4" or 1" keystock for the legs and a piece of 3/4" x 6" wide hrs for the cross piece.
                >
                > Ideas for very simple carriages are very welcome!!!!
                >
                > This African MM contest puts a lot of pressure on me for the design of a simple but strong carriage. In my case I am going to hang it from an overhead block that will replace the overarm.
                >
                > The overhead block will have a tailstock and center rest that is alway aligned with the spindle. Also a carriage mounted sliding grinder for making Aloris type tool holders and for grinding hot rolled steel shapes.
                >
                > Pat
                >
                >
                >
                > ____________ _________ _________ __
                > From: Venkat <apexpreci2000@ ...>
                > To: multimachine@ yahoogroups. com
                > Sent: Tue, November 3, 2009 12:48:36 AM
                > Subject: [multimachine] Re: Carriage and cross slide
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In multimachine@ yahoogroups. com, keith gutshall <drpshops@ .> wrote:
                >
                > > The graduated dials are the big problem to make or get.
                >
                > Not really , Keith. If you have a lathe, the problem will be over. Stick (or insert) a round plate or board over the chuck. Before inserting , mark the chuck with angle marks. In the chuck hold the wheel to be marked. Keep the lathe in back gear. Hold a v tool in the tool post (in 90 deg offset to normal position so that in the forward motion it will scoop the metal)
                >
                > prepare a pointer and bolt it the headstock with the tip of the pointer touching the marked plate.
                >
                > Now to marking. By hand slowly pull the motor belt such that the pointer moves to 10 degree. Push the carriage forward such that a mark is made for , say 15 mm (5/8 in) long.(do it repeatedly with more and more depth to make the mark quite visible. Like this do for all the 10 degs. You will have markings now all over the sleeve. You can even mark for 5 degrees ( for say 5 /16 in). Take a number punch and punch numbers. (This calibration needs equating the linear traverse per revolution and dividing it by as many marks. Or even you can simply mentally equate the number of markings to a certain millimeter value as most turners do. Finally, when you are done, apply black or red paint and wipe. The paint will stay in the groove and over the letters. Your dial is ready.
                >
                > Not difficult at all. No electric current even is required. The motor is stationary all through this process. If my description is difficult, please mail me. I will send you a scanned pic of a hand drawn image.
                >
                > Venkat
                >


              • Cassidy
                Pat, my intention is to use the MM more for milling that s why I like the machine better with a true X-Y table. I know I ll be able to use it for milling using
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 17, 2009
                  Pat, my intention is to use the MM more for milling that's why I like the machine better with a true X-Y table.

                  I know I'll be able to use it for milling using the Romig setup but do'nt you think it'll be limiting ito. milling operations?

                  Or perhaps not.

                  Do you think it's madness if I position the MM in the middle of the bed? In my mind it'll be very versatile for milling.


                  Regards.

                  --- In multimachine@yahoogroups.com, Pat Delany <rigmatch@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Cassidy
                  >
                  > How about bolting barstock to the top of the block for the bed and then making a carriage like a simplified but scaled up version of the Romig 6" turret lathe in "files".
                  >
                  > Pat
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: Cassidy <cassidymeyer@...>
                  > To: multimachine@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Tue, November 17, 2009 11:00:30 AM
                  > Subject: [multimachine] Re: Carriage and cross slide / more
                  >
                  >
                  > I'm very interested in this!!
                  >
                  > A cheap X-Y table around here is as scarce as a hen's teeth. I've got most of the other parts but the cost of the X-Y table is putting me off.
                  >
                  > Regards.
                  >
                  > --- In multimachine@ yahoogroups. com, Pat Delany <rigmatch@ .> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Great contribution Venkat.
                  > >
                  > > My choice of a store bought cross feed was a mistake for a lot of reasons but it was all I could do at the time.
                  > >
                  > > Strangely enough I am about to build a carriage out of bar stock pieces. The Monarch 10 EE is one of the best small lathes ever built so I chose it's dimensions, 10" wide and 18" long ways. I am going to use 3/4" or 1" keystock for the legs and a piece of 3/4" x 6" wide hrs for the cross piece.
                  > >
                  > > Ideas for very simple carriages are very welcome!!!!
                  > >
                  > > This African MM contest puts a lot of pressure on me for the design of a simple but strong carriage. In my case I am going to hang it from an overhead block that will replace the overarm.
                  > >
                  > > The overhead block will have a tailstock and center rest that is alway aligned with the spindle. Also a carriage mounted sliding grinder for making Aloris type tool holders and for grinding hot rolled steel shapes.
                  > >
                  > > Pat
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                  > > From: Venkat <apexpreci2000@ ...>
                  > > To: multimachine@ yahoogroups. com
                  > > Sent: Tue, November 3, 2009 12:48:36 AM
                  > > Subject: [multimachine] Re: Carriage and cross slide
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In multimachine@ yahoogroups. com, keith gutshall <drpshops@ .> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > The graduated dials are the big problem to make or get.
                  > >
                  > > Not really , Keith. If you have a lathe, the problem will be over. Stick (or insert) a round plate or board over the chuck. Before inserting , mark the chuck with angle marks. In the chuck hold the wheel to be marked. Keep the lathe in back gear. Hold a v tool in the tool post (in 90 deg offset to normal position so that in the forward motion it will scoop the metal)
                  > >
                  > > prepare a pointer and bolt it the headstock with the tip of the pointer touching the marked plate.
                  > >
                  > > Now to marking. By hand slowly pull the motor belt such that the pointer moves to 10 degree. Push the carriage forward such that a mark is made for , say 15 mm (5/8 in) long.(do it repeatedly with more and more depth to make the mark quite visible. Like this do for all the 10 degs. You will have markings now all over the sleeve. You can even mark for 5 degrees ( for say 5 /16 in). Take a number punch and punch numbers. (This calibration needs equating the linear traverse per revolution and dividing it by as many marks. Or even you can simply mentally equate the number of markings to a certain millimeter value as most turners do. Finally, when you are done, apply black or red paint and wipe. The paint will stay in the groove and over the letters. Your dial is ready.
                  > >
                  > > Not difficult at all. No electric current even is required. The motor is stationary all through this process. If my description is difficult, please mail me. I will send you a scanned pic of a hand drawn image.
                  > >
                  > > Venkat
                  > >
                  >
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