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Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"

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  • Sukhamaya Bain
    As I wrote before, blaming America is an easy, cheap and irresponsible way of shifting the culpability from where it really belongs; in this case, Pakistan
    Message 1 of 22 , Apr 22, 2012
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      As I wrote before, blaming America is an easy, cheap and irresponsible way of shifting the culpability from where it really belongs; in this case, Pakistan itself. Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty’s assessment below is seriously flawed.
       
      In a school textbook in the 1960s, in the then East Pakistan, there was a story where a cow wanted to be sacrificed for Allah in order to go to heaven. In my tender mind, I wondered, how hateful, cow is like a god to the Hindus, yet this is in the textbook that all children have to read! In another history narrative in a textbook, occupation and plundering of the Somnath Temple by Muslim invaders were described as Somnath Bijoy (winning of Somnath). Do these sound like American foreign policy in Afghanistan?
       
      I would like to ask people like Mr. Chakrabarty to search their memory for facts like the following:
       
      1)       The resignation of Jogen Mandal in 1950 from the position of Minister of Law, Justice and Labor in Liaquat Ali Khan’s cabinet due to atrocities on Hindus in East Bengal. The government of Pakistan was hostile to religious minorities, not eager to uphold their rights – forcing Mr. Mandal to take a permanent shelter in India.
      2)       The colossal scale atrocities on Hindus in Pakistan in 1965, during a war with India.
      3)       The regular military of Pakistan killing Hindus, irrespective of political affiliations, in 1971.
       
      Ayub Khan was the dictator of Pakistan from 1958 to 1969. It would be foolish to suggest that he had nothing to do with the 1965 atrocities, or with the mindset of the Pakistani military that methodically killed innocent and non-violent Hindus in 1971. It would be absurd to think that the character of Zia-ul-Haq sprouted out all of a sudden like a weed from a civilized/innocent Pakistan.
       
      FYI: Jogen Mandal’s Resignation Letter, if the hyperlink above does not work: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Resignation_letter_of_Jogendra_Nath_Mandal
       
      Mr. Chakrabarty really needs to do some reading, recalling his memory, and thinking, before making the kind of comments that he made below. If we can not speak truthfully and honestly, let us keep silent, let us just enjoy our life away from talking in the public forums.
       
      Sukhamaya Bain
       
      =======================================================
      From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@...>
      To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 9:52 AM
      Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
       
      Although only about a 2-mimute-long video, it is pretty informative and enlightening. I was a school student in a Pakistani (eastern wing) school in sixties and so was Tarek Fatah. In the Bengali anthologies that we had to read, there was nothing anti-hindu or anti-Christian. We had great pieces from all great Hindu writers including Bankim. [When the nationalist movement was crystallizing in the eastern wing, Monem Khan became worried and requested Abdul Hye to write Rabindra-sangeet although the selections in the anthologies remain unchanged.] Looks like it was a similar case in West Pakistan also. From the short but incomplete speech, one can find that every thing started with Ziaul Huque and Talibanization of Afghanistan. I will say that this has been one of the evil and harmful spill over effects of the foreign policy of America in Afghanistan. One may argue that cold war is the root cause. Thus communalism was bolstered in Pakistan indirectly because of the American foreign policy.
       
      At this time it may be politically incorrect to say that Ayub Khan and his cabinet members were not fanatic Muslims like Ziaul Huque. As a matter fact in spirits they were pretty modern in their life style. Ayub Khan was found swimming with Christian Killer in a swimming pool! Mowdudi was given death sentence during his tenure for instigating riots against the Ahmediyas. For the first several years after birth, Pakistan was going through chaotic situation. Ayub Khan emerged as the "savior" of the politically unstable Pakistan, and with the dictatorial rule brought stability in the polititical arena of Pakistan for a while. He understood the then global politics in his own way and chose to be blessed by the Washington-Peking axis and as such resorted to anti-India policy to gather strength and thereby consolidate his position both internally and externally (SEATO-CENTO). He was too much a Panjabi and neglected East Pakistan (although it was a great source of the national earnings) and the other regions. He resorted to the policy of family planning and was greatly opposed by Jamaat and some other so called Islam-pasand political parties.    
       
      ================================================
      From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
      To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 8:24 PM
      Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
       
       
      Listen to another piece of video about Hindus bashing in the school curriculum of Pakistan:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ahY6xRMJ8w&feature=related
       
      --- On Fri, 4/20/12, Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@...> wrote:

      From: Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@...>
      Subject: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
      To: "Khobor" <khabor@yahoogroups.com>, "mokto mona" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Friday, April 20, 2012, 9:23 AM

       
      ----- Forwarded Message -----
      Subject: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
      YouTube Help Centre | email options | report spam
      http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSarfarosh Naye Packet Mei Cheez Purani - Pakistani school books teach hatred against all the religious minorities ... Hindus & Ahmadis in particular. As a result of this filth, minorities have to suffer a lot in Pakistan. Minority Group Rights International (an international organization whose sole job is to raise awareness of minority rights issues worldwide) ranks Pakistan as the 6th most unsafe nation for the minorities.
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    • Subimal Chakrabarty
      I simply made a comment on 2-minute speech by Tarek Fatah. I still believe that Tarek Fatah is generally right. Please listen to the speech and re-read my
      Message 2 of 22 , Apr 23, 2012
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        I simply made a comment on 2-minute speech by Tarek Fatah. I still believe that Tarek Fatah is generally right. Please listen to the speech and re-read my post. You have gone beyond what Fatah is emphasizing on. I do not think neither Fatah nor I will disagree with you on the communal and anti-Indian politics of the Pakistani rulers. But using text books to antagonize the innocent minds against Hindus started with Ziaul Huque--that is Fatah's thesis. Do not overreact without understanding the point. 

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Apr 22, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:

         

        As I wrote before, blaming America is an easy, cheap and irresponsible way of shifting the culpability from where it really belongs; in this case, Pakistan itself. Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty’s assessment below is seriously flawed.
         
        In a school textbook in the 1960s, in the then East Pakistan, there was a story where a cow wanted to be sacrificed for Allah in order to go to heaven. In my tender mind, I wondered, how hateful, cow is like a god to the Hindus, yet this is in the textbook that all children have to read! In another history narrative in a textbook, occupation and plundering of the Somnath Temple by Muslim invaders were described as Somnath Bijoy (winning of Somnath). Do these sound like American foreign policy in Afghanistan?
         
        I would like to ask people like Mr. Chakrabarty to search their memory for facts like the following:
         
        1)       The resignation of Jogen Mandal in 1950 from the position of Minister of Law, Justice and Labor in Liaquat Ali Khan’s cabinet due to atrocities on Hindus in East Bengal. The government of Pakistan was hostile to religious minorities, not eager to uphold their rights – forcing Mr. Mandal to take a permanent shelter in India.
        2)       The colossal scale atrocities on Hindus in Pakistan in 1965, during a war with India.
        3)       The regular military of Pakistan killing Hindus, irrespective of political affiliations, in 1971.
         
        Ayub Khan was the dictator of Pakistan from 1958 to 1969. It would be foolish to suggest that he had nothing to do with the 1965 atrocities, or with the mindset of the Pakistani military that methodically killed innocent and non-violent Hindus in 1971. It would be absurd to think that the character of Zia-ul-Haq sprouted out all of a sudden like a weed from a civilized/innocent Pakistan.
         
        FYI: Jogen Mandal’s Resignation Letter, if the hyperlink above does not work: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Resignation_letter_of_Jogendra_Nath_Mandal
         
        Mr. Chakrabarty really needs to do some reading, recalling his memory, and thinking, before making the kind of comments that he made below. If we can not speak truthfully and honestly, let us keep silent, let us just enjoy our life away from talking in the public forums.
         
        Sukhamaya Bain
         
        =======================================================
        From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@...>
        To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 9:52 AM
        Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
         
        Although only about a 2-mimute-long video, it is pretty informative and enlightening. I was a school student in a Pakistani (eastern wing) school in sixties and so was Tarek Fatah. In the Bengali anthologies that we had to read, there was nothing anti-hindu or anti-Christian. We had great pieces from all great Hindu writers including Bankim. [When the nationalist movement was crystallizing in the eastern wing, Monem Khan became worried and requested Abdul Hye to write Rabindra-sangeet although the selections in the anthologies remain unchanged.] Looks like it was a similar case in West Pakistan also. From the short but incomplete speech, one can find that every thing started with Ziaul Huque and Talibanization of Afghanistan. I will say that this has been one of the evil and harmful spill over effects of the foreign policy of America in Afghanistan. One may argue that cold war is the root cause. Thus communalism was bolstered in Pakistan indirectly because of the American foreign policy.
         
        At this time it may be politically incorrect to say that Ayub Khan and his cabinet members were not fanatic Muslims like Ziaul Huque. As a matter fact in spirits they were pretty modern in their life style. Ayub Khan was found swimming with Christian Killer in a swimming pool! Mowdudi was given death sentence during his tenure for instigating riots against the Ahmediyas. For the first several years after birth, Pakistan was going through chaotic situation. Ayub Khan emerged as the "savior" of the politically unstable Pakistan, and with the dictatorial rule brought stability in the polititical arena of Pakistan for a while. He understood the then global politics in his own way and chose to be blessed by the Washington-Peking axis and as such resorted to anti-India policy to gather strength and thereby consolidate his position both internally and externally (SEATO-CENTO). He was too much a Panjabi and neglected East Pakistan (although it was a great source of the national earnings) and the other regions. He resorted to the policy of family planning and was greatly opposed by Jamaat and some other so called Islam-pasand political parties.    
         
        ================================================
        From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
        To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 8:24 PM
        Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
         
         
        Listen to another piece of video about Hindus bashing in the school curriculum of Pakistan:
         
        --- On Fri, 4/20/12, Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@...> wrote:

        From: Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@...>
        Subject: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
        To: "Khobor" <khabor@yahoogroups.com>, "mokto mona" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Friday, April 20, 2012, 9:23 AM

         
        ----- Forwarded Message -----
        Subject: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
        YouTube Help Centre | email options | report spam
        http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSarfarosh Naye Packet Mei Cheez Purani - Pakistani school books teach hatred against all the religious minorities ... Hindus & Ahmadis in particular. As a result of this filth, minorities have to suffer a lot in Pakistan. Minority Group Rights International (an international organization whose sole job is to raise awareness of minor
      • Sukhamaya Bain
        Well, Tarek Fatah s thesis is dead wrong; an over simplification by just blaming one dictator. Without honestly identifying the real problem of anti-Hindu and
        Message 3 of 22 , Apr 23, 2012
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          Well, Tarek Fatah's thesis is dead wrong; an over simplification by just blaming one dictator. Without honestly identifying the real problem of anti-Hindu and anti-non-Muslim socio-political culture of Pakistan, no real solution could come; does not matter who Tarek Fatah may be.
           
          ==============================

          From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@...>
          To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:34 PM
          Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
           
          I simply made a comment on 2-minute speech by Tarek Fatah. I still believe that Tarek Fatah is generally right. Please listen to the speech and re-read my post. You have gone beyond what Fatah is emphasizing on. I do not think neither Fatah nor I will disagree with you on the communal and anti-Indian politics of the Pakistani rulers. But using text books to antagonize the innocent minds against Hindus started with Ziaul Huque--that is Fatah's thesis. Do not overreact without understanding the point. 
          Sent from my iPhone
           
          =============================
          On Apr 22, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:
           
          As I wrote before, blaming America is an easy, cheap and irresponsible way of shifting the culpability from where it really belongs; in this case, Pakistan itself. Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty’s assessment below is seriously flawed.
           
          In a school textbook in the 1960s, in the then East Pakistan, there was a story where a cow wanted to be sacrificed for Allah in order to go to heaven. In my tender mind, I wondered, how hateful, cow is like a god to the Hindus, yet this is in the textbook that all children have to read! In another history narrative in a textbook, occupation and plundering of the Somnath Temple by Muslim invaders were described as Somnath Bijoy (winning of Somnath). Do these sound like American foreign policy in Afghanistan?
           
          I would like to ask people like Mr. Chakrabarty to search their memory for facts like the following:
           
          1)       The resignation of Jogen Mandal in 1950 from the position of Minister of Law, Justice and Labor in Liaquat Ali Khan’s cabinet due to atrocities on Hindus in East Bengal. The government of Pakistan was hostile to religious minorities, not eager to uphold their rights – forcing Mr. Mandal to take a permanent shelter in India.
          2)       The colossal scale atrocities on Hindus in Pakistan in 1965, during a war with India.
          3)       The regular military of Pakistan killing Hindus, irrespective of political affiliations, in 1971.
           
          Ayub Khan was the dictator of Pakistan from 1958 to 1969. It would be foolish to suggest that he had nothing to do with the 1965 atrocities, or with the mindset of the Pakistani military that methodically killed innocent and non-violent Hindus in 1971. It would be absurd to think that the character of Zia-ul-Haq sprouted out all of a sudden like a weed from a civilized/innocent Pakistan.
           
          FYI: Jogen Mandal’s Resignation Letter, if the hyperlink above does not work: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Resignation_letter_of_Jogendra_Nath_Mandal
           
          Mr. Chakrabarty really needs to do some reading, recalling his memory, and thinking, before making the kind of comments that he made below. If we can not speak truthfully and honestly, let us keep silent, let us just enjoy our life away from talking in the public forums.
           
          Sukhamaya Bain
           
          =======================================================
          From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@...>
          To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 9:52 AM
          Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
           
          Although only about a 2-mimute-long video, it is pretty informative and enlightening. I was a school student in a Pakistani (eastern wing) school in sixties and so was Tarek Fatah. In the Bengali anthologies that we had to read, there was nothing anti-hindu or anti-Christian. We had great pieces from all great Hindu writers including Bankim. [When the nationalist movement was crystallizing in the eastern wing, Monem Khan became worried and requested Abdul Hye to write Rabindra-sangeet although the selections in the anthologies remain unchanged.] Looks like it was a similar case in West Pakistan also. From the short but incomplete speech, one can find that every thing started with Ziaul Huque and Talibanization of Afghanistan. I will say that this has been one of the evil and harmful spill over effects of the foreign policy of America in Afghanistan. One may argue that cold war is the root cause. Thus communalism was bolstered in Pakistan indirectly because of the American foreign policy.
           
          At this time it may be politically incorrect to say that Ayub Khan and his cabinet members were not fanatic Muslims like Ziaul Huque. As a matter fact in spirits they were pretty modern in their life style. Ayub Khan was found swimming with Christian Killer in a swimming pool! Mowdudi was given death sentence during his tenure for instigating riots against the Ahmediyas. For the first several years after birth, Pakistan was going through chaotic situation. Ayub Khan emerged as the "savior" of the politically unstable Pakistan, and with the dictatorial rule brought stability in the polititical arena of Pakistan for a while. He understood the then global politics in his own way and chose to be blessed by the Washington-Peking axis and as such resorted to anti-India policy to gather strength and thereby consolidate his position both internally and externally (SEATO-CENTO). He was too much a Panjabi and neglected East Pakistan (although it was a great source of the national earnings) and the other regions. He resorted to the policy of family planning and was greatly opposed by Jamaat and some other so called Islam-pasand political parties.    
           
          ================================================
          From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
          To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 8:24 PM
          Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
           
           
          Listen to another piece of video about Hindus bashing in the school curriculum of Pakistan:
           
          --- On Fri, 4/20/12, Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@...> wrote:

          From: Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@...>
          Subject: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
          To: "Khobor" <khabor@yahoogroups.com>, "mokto mona" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
          Date: Friday, April 20, 2012, 9:23 AM

           
          ----- Forwarded Message -----
          Subject: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
          YouTube Help Centre | email options | report spam
          http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSarfarosh Naye Packet Mei Cheez Purani - Pakistani school books teach hatred against all the religious minorities ... Hindus & Ahmadis in particular. As a result of this filth, minorities have to suffer a lot in Pakistan. Minority Group Rights International (an international organization whose sole job is to raise awareness of minor
        • Jiten Roy
          Let me ask, once again, why some people become successful, while others aren’t? The only reason is - some people can envision the real solution/problem
          Message 4 of 22 , Apr 23, 2012
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            Let me ask, once again, why some people become successful, while others aren’t? The only reason is - some people can envision the real solution/problem directly, while others run around bushes. This is the basic principle that works in every field.

             

            As a result, many people can't envision the real problem Hindu-bashing in Pakistan, which, as a matter of fact, did not start with Ziaul Haque or American policy in the region. Tarek Fatah can conclude whatever he wants, but it really started from the birth of Pakistan. They have been spreading the poison of Hindu-bashing from the onset of Pakistan. This is how they could keep people on both sides separated for that long. Without Hindu-bashing, people would have revolted for reunification by now, like East and West Germany.

             

            India did not need such poisoning, as they were expecting possibility of reunification from the very beginning. Popular belief was - Pakistan would not survive for long. But, it did - through mind-poisoning with Hindu-bashing.

             

            Jiten Roy

             

            --- On Mon, 4/23/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:

            From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...>
            Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
            To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Monday, April 23, 2012, 9:27 PM

             
            Well, Tarek Fatah's thesis is dead wrong; an over simplification by just blaming one dictator. Without honestly identifying the real problem of anti-Hindu and anti-non-Muslim socio-political culture of Pakistan, no real solution could come; does not matter who Tarek Fatah may be.
             
            ==============================

            From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@...>
            To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:34 PM
            Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
             
            I simply made a comment on 2-minute speech by Tarek Fatah. I still believe that Tarek Fatah is generally right. Please listen to the speech and re-read my post. You have gone beyond what Fatah is emphasizing on. I do not think neither Fatah nor I will disagree with you on the communal and anti-Indian politics of the Pakistani rulers. But using text books to antagonize the innocent minds against Hindus started with Ziaul Huque--that is Fatah's thesis. Do not overreact without understanding the point. 
            Sent from my iPhone
             
            =============================
            On Apr 22, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:
             
            As I wrote before, blaming America is an easy, cheap and irresponsible way of shifting the culpability from where it really belongs; in this case, Pakistan itself. Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty’s assessment below is seriously flawed.
             
            In a school textbook in the 1960s, in the then East Pakistan, there was a story where a cow wanted to be sacrificed for Allah in order to go to heaven. In my tender mind, I wondered, how hateful, cow is like a god to the Hindus, yet this is in the textbook that all children have to read! In another history narrative in a textbook, occupation and plundering of the Somnath Temple by Muslim invaders were described as Somnath Bijoy (winning of Somnath). Do these sound like American foreign policy in Afghanistan?
             
            I would like to ask people like Mr. Chakrabarty to search their memory for facts like the following:
             
            1)       The resignation of Jogen Mandal in 1950 from the position of Minister of Law, Justice and Labor in Liaquat Ali Khan’s cabinet due to atrocities on Hindus in East Bengal. The government of Pakistan was hostile to religious minorities, not eager to uphold their rights – forcing Mr. Mandal to take a permanent shelter in India.
            2)       The colossal scale atrocities on Hindus in Pakistan in 1965, during a war with India.
            3)       The regular military of Pakistan killing Hindus, irrespective of political affiliations, in 1971.
             
            Ayub Khan was the dictator of Pakistan from 1958 to 1969. It would be foolish to suggest that he had nothing to do with the 1965 atrocities, or with the mindset of the Pakistani military that methodically killed innocent and non-violent Hindus in 1971. It would be absurd to think that the character of Zia-ul-Haq sprouted out all of a sudden like a weed from a civilized/innocent Pakistan.
             
            FYI: Jogen Mandal’s Resignation Letter, if the hyperlink above does not work: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Resignation_letter_of_Jogendra_Nath_Mandal
             
            Mr. Chakrabarty really needs to do some reading, recalling his memory, and thinking, before making the kind of comments that he made below. If we can not speak truthfully and honestly, let us keep silent, let us just enjoy our life away from talking in the public forums.
             
            Sukhamaya Bain
             
            =======================================================
            From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@...>
            To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 9:52 AM
            Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
             
            Although only about a 2-mimute-long video, it is pretty informative and enlightening. I was a school student in a Pakistani (eastern wing) school in sixties and so was Tarek Fatah. In the Bengali anthologies that we had to read, there was nothing anti-hindu or anti-Christian. We had great pieces from all great Hindu writers including Bankim. [When the nationalist movement was crystallizing in the eastern wing, Monem Khan became worried and requested Abdul Hye to write Rabindra-sangeet although the selections in the anthologies remain unchanged.] Looks like it was a similar case in West Pakistan also. From the short but incomplete speech, one can find that every thing started with Ziaul Huque and Talibanization of Afghanistan. I will say that this has been one of the evil and harmful spill over effects of the foreign policy of America in Afghanistan. One may argue that cold war is the root cause. Thus communalism was bolstered in Pakistan indirectly because of the American foreign policy.
             
            At this time it may be politically incorrect to say that Ayub Khan and his cabinet members were not fanatic Muslims like Ziaul Huque. As a matter fact in spirits they were pretty modern in their life style. Ayub Khan was found swimming with Christian Killer in a swimming pool! Mowdudi was given death sentence during his tenure for instigating riots against the Ahmediyas. For the first several years after birth, Pakistan was going through chaotic situation. Ayub Khan emerged as the "savior" of the politically unstable Pakistan, and with the dictatorial rule brought stability in the polititical arena of Pakistan for a while. He understood the then global politics in his own way and chose to be blessed by the Washington-Peking axis and as such resorted to anti-India policy to gather strength and thereby consolidate his position both internally and externally (SEATO-CENTO). He was too much a Panjabi and neglected East Pakistan (although it was a great source of the national earnings) and the other regions. He resorted to the policy of family planning and was greatly opposed by Jamaat and some other so called Islam-pasand political parties.    
             
            ================================================
            From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
            To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 8:24 PM
            Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
             
             
            Listen to another piece of video about Hindus bashing in the school curriculum of Pakistan:
             
            --- On Fri, 4/20/12, Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@...> wrote:

            From: Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@...>
            Subject: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
            To: "Khobor" <khabor@yahoogroups.com>, "mokto mona" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Friday, April 20, 2012, 9:23 AM

             
            ----- Forwarded Message -----
            Subject: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
            YouTube Help Centre | email options | report spam
            http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSarfarosh Naye Packet Mei Cheez Purani - Pakistani school books teach hatred against all the religious minorities ... Hindus & Ahmadis in particular. As a result of this filth, minorities have to suffer a lot in Pakistan. Minority Group Rights International (an international organization whose sole job is to raise awareness of minor
          • qar
            While I agree with most of what you said about Pakistani politics , I think many Indian politicians are Play with religion frequently. Even today Muslim
            Message 5 of 22 , Apr 24, 2012
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              While I agree with most of what you said about "Pakistani politics", I think many Indian politicians are "Play" with religion frequently. Even today Muslim bashing goes on unabated when the time is right. Frequent riots in India says a lot about the problem in "Modern India".

              The major difference in early India and Pakistan was India was blessed with Gandhi (Nehru, Indira, Rajiv etc) family and Pakistan did not have such seasoned leadership.

              In reality many Muslims also suffered for lack of good leadership in Pakistan. The "Maharani of Tripura" wanted to join the then East Pakistan and patiently waited almost two years to get some invitations (Around that time India swallowed Hyderabad and Kashmir with VERY different excuses) but our leaders back in Pakistan did not have the skills required to show statesmanship with people of Tripura. Specifically leaders of Bengali origin (Mostly Muslims) were pathetic in negotiations and lost (To newly founded India) more of "Undivided Bengal" and Pakistani Punjab gained more land as a result.  Murshidabad was a Muslim majority state but somehow it stayed with India, defying all logic!!

              We can certainly criticize and "Bash" criminals but harassing people for their religion is unacceptable. Those of us blessed with some education have to stand united against all faith based bashing. It does not diminish anything from any faiths but exposes ignorants and cowards among us.


              Shalom!




              -----Original Message-----
              From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
              To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tue, Apr 24, 2012 8:27 am
              Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"

               
              Let me ask, once again, why some people become successful, while others aren’t? The only reason is - some people can envision the real solution/problem directly, while others run around bushes. This is the basic principle that works in every field.
               
              As a result, many people can't envision the real problem Hindu-bashing in Pakistan, which, as a matter of fact, did not start with Ziaul Haque or American policy in the region. Tarek Fatah can conclude whatever he wants, but it really started from the birth of Pakistan. They have been spreading the poison of Hindu-bashing from the onset of Pakistan. This is how they could keep people on both sides separated for that long. Without Hindu-bashing, people would have revolted for reunification by now, like East and West Germany.
               
              India did not need such poisoning, as they were expecting possibility of reunification from the very beginning. Popular belief was - Pakistan would not survive for long. But, it did - through mind-poisoning with Hindu-bashing.
               
              Jiten Roy
               

              --- On Mon, 4/23/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:

              From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...>
              Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
              To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
              Date: Monday, April 23, 2012, 9:27 PM

               
              Well, Tarek Fatah's thesis is dead wrong; an over simplification by just blaming one dictator. Without honestly identifying the real problem of anti-Hindu and anti-non-Muslim socio-political culture of Pakistan, no real solution could come; does not matter who Tarek Fatah may be.
               
              ==============================

              From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@...>
              To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:34 PM
              Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
               
              I simply made a comment on 2-minute speech by Tarek Fatah. I still believe that Tarek Fatah is generally right. Please listen to the speech and re-read my post. You have gone beyond what Fatah is emphasizing on. I do not think neither Fatah nor I will disagree with you on the communal and anti-Indian politics of the Pakistani rulers. But using text books to antagonize the innocent minds against Hindus started with Ziaul Huque--that is Fatah's thesis. Do not overreact without understanding the point. 
              Sent from my iPhone
               
              =============================
              On Apr 22, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:
               
              As I wrote before, blaming America is an easy, cheap and irresponsible way of shifting the culpability from where it really belongs; in this case, Pakistan itself. Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty’s assessment below is seriously flawed.
               
              In a school textbook in the 1960s, in the then East Pakistan, there was a story where a cow wanted to be sacrificed for Allah in order to go to heaven. In my tender mind, I wondered, how hateful, cow is like a god to the Hindus, yet this is in the textbook that all children have to read! In another history narrative in a textbook, occupation and plundering of the Somnath Temple by Muslim invaders were described as Somnath Bijoy (winning of Somnath). Do these sound like American foreign policy in Afghanistan?
               
              I would like to ask people like Mr. Chakrabarty to search their memory for facts like the following:
               
              1)       The resignation of Jogen Mandal in 1950 from the position of Minister of Law, Justice and Labor in Liaquat Ali Khan’s cabinet due to atrocities on Hindus in East Bengal. The government of Pakistan was hostile to religious minorities, not eager to uphold their rights – forcing Mr. Mandal to take a permanent shelter in India.
              2)       The colossal scale atrocities on Hindus in Pakistan in 1965, during a war with India.
              3)       The regular military of Pakistan killing Hindus, irrespective of political affiliations, in 1971.
               
              Ayub Khan was the dictator of Pakistan from 1958 to 1969. It would be foolish to suggest that he had nothing to do with the 1965 atrocities, or with the mindset of the Pakistani military that methodically killed innocent and non-violent Hindus in 1971. It would be absurd to think that the character of Zia-ul-Haq sprouted out all of a sudden like a weed from a civilized/innocent Pakistan.
               
              FYI: Jogen Mandal’s Resignation Letter, if the hyperlink above does not work: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Resignation_letter_of_Jogendra_Nath_Mandal
               
              Mr. Chakrabarty really needs to do some reading, recalling his memory, and thinking, before making the kind of comments that he made below. If we can not speak truthfully and honestly, let us keep silent, let us just enjoy our life away from talking in the public forums.
               
              Sukhamaya Bain
               
              =======================================================
              From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@...>
              To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 9:52 AM
              Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
               
              Although only about a 2-mimute-long video, it is pretty informative and enlightening. I was a school student in a Pakistani (eastern wing) school in sixties and so was Tarek Fatah. In the Bengali anthologies that we had to read, there was nothing anti-hindu or anti-Christian. We had great pieces from all great Hindu writers including Bankim. [When the nationalist movement was crystallizing in the eastern wing, Monem Khan became worried and requested Abdul Hye to write Rabindra-sangeet although the selections in the anthologies remain unchanged.] Looks like it was a similar case in West Pakistan also. From the short but incomplete speech, one can find that every thing started with Ziaul Huque and Talibanization of Afghanistan. I will say that this has been one of the evil and harmful spill over effects of the foreign policy of America in Afghanistan. One may argue that cold war is the root cause. Thus communalism was bolstered in Pakistan indirectly because of the American foreign policy.
               
              At this time it may be politically incorrect to say that Ayub Khan and his cabinet members were not fanatic Muslims like Ziaul Huque. As a matter fact in spirits they were pretty modern in their life style. Ayub Khan was found swimming with Christian Killer in a swimming pool! Mowdudi was given death sentence during his tenure for instigating riots against the Ahmediyas. For the first several years after birth, Pakistan was going through chaotic situation. Ayub Khan emerged as the "savior" of the politically unstable Pakistan, and with the dictatorial rule brought stability in the polititical arena of Pakistan for a while. He understood the then global politics in his own way and chose to be blessed by the Washington-Peking axis and as such resorted to anti-India policy to gather strength and thereby consolidate his position both internally and externally (SEATO-CENTO). He was too much a Panjabi and neglected East Pakistan (although it was a great source of the national earnings) and the other regions. He resorted to the policy of family planning and was greatly opposed by Jamaat and some other so called Islam-pasand political parties.    
               
              ================================================
              From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
              To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 8:24 PM
              Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
               
               
              Listen to another piece of video about Hindus bashing in the school curriculum of Pakistan:
               
              --- On Fri, 4/20/12, Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@...> wrote:

              From: Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@...>
              Subject: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
              To: "Khobor" <khabor@yahoogroups.com>, "mokto mona" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
              Date: Friday, April 20, 2012, 9:23 AM

               
              ----- Forwarded Message -----
              Subject: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
              YouTube Help Centre | email options | report spam
              http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSarfarosh Naye Packet Mei Cheez Purani - Pakistani school books teach hatred against all the religious minorities ... Hindus & Ahmadis in particular. As a result of this filth, minorities have to suffer a lot in Pakistan. Minority Group Rights International (an international organization whose sole job is to raise awareness of minor
            • Subimal Chakrabarty
              Both Bain and Roy deserve congrats on their having more thorough knowledge about propagation of hatred using lies in text books than one with first hand
              Message 6 of 22 , Apr 24, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                Both Bain and Roy deserve congrats on their having more thorough knowledge about propagation of hatred using lies in text books than one with first hand experience. I wish some one could bring this to Fatah's notice. 
                The Textbook Board prescribed Bengali selection included pieces from Hindu prominent Hindu authors. There was a poem by Akshoy Baral which indirectly preached atheism or at least challenged the power or kindness of God.  A line in asked: in prehistoric time when man was helpless, who came forward to help him? God or Man? 
                In subsequent selection were included pieces on Last Pilgrimage, gist of Islamic teachings, Namaj, etc. We have to realize that it was an Islamic Republic. 
                We must understand that glorifying Muslim conquerors and propagating hatred through lies incorporated in text books are not the same thing. 

                Sent from my iPhone

                On Apr 23, 2012, at 9:26 PM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...> wrote:

                 

                Let me ask, once again, why some people become successful, while others aren’t? The only reason is - some people can envision the real solution/problem directly, while others run around bushes. This is the basic principle that works in every field.

                 

                As a result, many people can't envision the real problem Hindu-bashing in Pakistan, which, as a matter of fact, did not start with Ziaul Haque or American policy in the region. Tarek Fatah can conclude whatever he wants, but it really started from the birth of Pakistan. They have been spreading the poison of Hindu-bashing from the onset of Pakistan. This is how they could keep people on both sides separated for that long. Without Hindu-bashing, people would have revolted for reunification by now, like East and West Germany.

                 

                India did not need such poisoning, as they were expecting possibility of reunification from the very beginning. Popular belief was - Pakistan would not survive for long. But, it did - through mind-poisoning with Hindu-bashing.

                 

                Jiten Roy

                 

                --- On Mon, 4/23/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:

                From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...>
                Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                Date: Monday, April 23, 2012, 9:27 PM

                 
                Well, Tarek Fatah's thesis is dead wrong; an over simplification by just blaming one dictator. Without honestly identifying the real problem of anti-Hindu and anti-non-Muslim socio-political culture of Pakistan, no real solution could come; does not matter who Tarek Fatah may be.
                 
                ==============================

                From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@...>
                To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:34 PM
                Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                 
                I simply made a comment on 2-minute speech by Tarek Fatah. I still believe that Tarek Fatah is generally right. Please listen to the speech and re-read my post. You have gone beyond what Fatah is emphasizing on. I do not think neither Fatah nor I will disagree with you on the communal and anti-Indian politics of the Pakistani rulers. But using text books to antagonize the innocent minds against Hindus started with Ziaul Huque--that is Fatah's thesis. Do not overreact without understanding the point. 
                Sent from my iPhone
                 
                =============================
                On Apr 22, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:
                 
                As I wrote before, blaming America is an easy, cheap and irresponsible way of shifting the culpability from where it really belongs; in this case, Pakistan itself. Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty’s assessment below is seriously flawed.
                 
                In a school textbook in the 1960s, in the then East Pakistan, there was a story where a cow wanted to be sacrificed for Allah in order to go to heaven. In my tender mind, I wondered, how hateful, cow is like a god to the Hindus, yet this is in the textbook that all children have to read! In another history narrative in a textbook, occupation and plundering of the Somnath Temple by Muslim invaders were described as Somnath Bijoy (winning of Somnath). Do these sound like American foreign policy in Afghanistan?
                 
                I would like to ask people like Mr. Chakrabarty to search their memory for facts like the following:
                 
                1)       The resignation of Jogen Mandal in 1950 from the position of Minister of Law, Justice and Labor in Liaquat Ali Khan’s cabinet due to atrocities on Hindus in East Bengal. The government of Pakistan was hostile to religious minorities, not eager to uphold their rights – forcing Mr. Mandal to take a permanent shelter in India.
                2)       The colossal scale atrocities on Hindus in Pakistan in 1965, during a war with India.
                3)       The regular military of Pakistan killing Hindus, irrespective of political affiliations, in 1971.
                 
                Ayub Khan was the dictator of Pakistan from 1958 to 1969. It would be foolish to suggest that he had nothing to do with the 1965 atrocities, or with the mindset of the Pakistani military that methodically killed innocent and non-violent Hindus in 1971. It would be absurd to think that the character of Zia-ul-Haq sprouted out all of a sudden like a weed from a civilized/innocent Pakistan.
                 
                FYI: Jogen Mandal’s Resignation Letter, if the hyperlink above does not work: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Resignation_letter_of_Jogendra_Nath_Mandal
                 
                Mr. Chakrabarty really needs to do some reading, recalling his memory, and thinking, before making the kind of comments that he made below. If we can not speak truthfully and honestly, let us keep silent, let us just enjoy our life away from talking in the public forums.
                 
                Sukhamaya Bain
                 
                =======================================================
                From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@...>
                To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 9:52 AM
                Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                 
                Although only about a 2-mimute-long video, it is pretty informative and enlightening. I was a school student in a Pakistani (eastern wing) school in sixties and so was Tarek Fatah. In the Bengali anthologies that we had to read, there was nothing anti-hindu or anti-Christian. We had great pieces from all great Hindu writers including Bankim. [When the nationalist movement was crystallizing in the eastern wing, Monem Khan became worried and requested Abdul Hye to write Rabindra-sangeet although the selections in the anthologies remain unchanged.] Looks like it was a similar case in West Pakistan also. From the short but incomplete speech, one can find that every thing started with Ziaul Huque and Talibanization of Afghanistan. I will say that this has been one of the evil and harmful spill over effects of the foreign policy of America in Afghanistan. One may argue that cold war is the root cause. Thus communalism was bolstered in Pakistan indirectly because of the American foreign policy.
                 
                At this time it may be politically incorrect to say that Ayub Khan and his cabinet members were not fanatic Muslims lik
              • Jiten Roy
                Thank you. Let me say this. Communalism is a different entity from religion. Religion is not the cause of communality. It’s the victim of communality. People
                Message 7 of 22 , Apr 24, 2012
                • 0 Attachment

                  Thank you. Let me say this. Communalism is a different entity from religion. Religion is not the cause of communality. It’s the victim of communality. People exploit religion to foment communality. Those who follow religion correctly are not communal. It’s the borderline religious people, many of who has propensity to become communal for their own self-interest.

                  I my youth, we used to play soccer and volleyball with the Moulavi-teacher of our Primary School; he was our buddy. Also, Moulavi-teacher of our high school was my school-hostel super. He was a very strict religious man, but - used to love me like his sons. He used to guide me like my parents. I have written articles about him in Mukto-mona, and elsewhere before.

                  I believe - the trouble is with those who are borderline religious. They do not hesitate to use religion to foment hatred to achieve their political or self interest. Truly religious people will not dare to do so. 

                  Mostly, communality has been a tool for political leaders to achieve their goals. In case of Pakistan, it was the military rulers, who found this tool to bring majority population under their control at the expense of religious minority, in this case Hindus. Those military rulers were not religious, but used to act like one in public. There are other batch of people also, who would show their ultra religiosity outside only to exploit religion. These are dangerous people.

                  This is the truth – religion can exist without communality, but communality cannot exist without religion.

                  Jiten Roy

                  --- On Tue, 4/24/12, qar <qrahman@...> wrote:

                  From: qar <qrahman@...>
                  Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                  To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Tuesday, April 24, 2012, 3:50 AM

                   
                  While I agree with most of what you said about "Pakistani politics", I think many Indian politicians are "Play" with religion frequently. Even today Muslim bashing goes on unabated when the time is right. Frequent riots in India says a lot about the problem in "Modern India".

                  The major difference in early India and Pakistan was India was blessed with Gandhi (Nehru, Indira, Rajiv etc) family and Pakistan did not have such seasoned leadership.

                  In reality many Muslims also suffered for lack of good leadership in Pakistan. The "Maharani of Tripura" wanted to join the then East Pakistan and patiently waited almost two years to get some invitations (Around that time India swallowed Hyderabad and Kashmir with VERY different excuses) but our leaders back in Pakistan did not have the skills required to show statesmanship with people of Tripura. Specifically leaders of Bengali origin (Mostly Muslims) were pathetic in negotiations and lost (To newly founded India) more of "Undivided Bengal" and Pakistani Punjab gained more land as a result.  Murshidabad was a Muslim majority state but somehow it stayed with India, defying all logic!!

                  We can certainly criticize and "Bash" criminals but harassing people for their religion is unacceptable. Those of us blessed with some education have to stand united against all faith based bashing. It does not diminish anything from any faiths but exposes ignorants and cowards among us.


                  Shalom!




                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
                  To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Tue, Apr 24, 2012 8:27 am
                  Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"

                   
                  Let me ask, once again, why some people become successful, while others aren’t? The only reason is - some people can envision the real solution/problem directly, while others run around bushes. This is the basic principle that works in every field.
                   
                  As a result, many people can't envision the real problem Hindu-bashing in Pakistan, which, as a matter of fact, did not start with Ziaul Haque or American policy in the region. Tarek Fatah can conclude whatever he wants, but it really started from the birth of Pakistan. They have been spreading the poison of Hindu-bashing from the onset of Pakistan. This is how they could keep people on both sides separated for that long. Without Hindu-bashing, people would have revolted for reunification by now, like East and West Germany.
                   
                  India did not need such poisoning, as they were expecting possibility of reunification from the very beginning. Popular belief was - Pakistan would not survive for long. But, it did - through mind-poisoning with Hindu-bashing.
                   
                  Jiten Roy
                   

                  --- On Mon, 4/23/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:

                  From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...>
                  Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                  To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                  Date: Monday, April 23, 2012, 9:27 PM

                   
                  Well, Tarek Fatah's thesis is dead wrong; an over simplification by just blaming one dictator. Without honestly identifying the real problem of anti-Hindu and anti-non-Muslim socio-political culture of Pakistan, no real solution could come; does not matter who Tarek Fatah may be.
                   
                  ==============================

                  From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@...>
                  To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:34 PM
                  Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                   
                  I simply made a comment on 2-minute speech by Tarek Fatah. I still believe that Tarek Fatah is generally right. Please listen to the speech and re-read my post. You have gone beyond what Fatah is emphasizing on. I do not think neither Fatah nor I will disagree with you on the communal and anti-Indian politics of the Pakistani rulers. But using text books to antagonize the innocent minds against Hindus started with Ziaul Huque--that is Fatah's thesis. Do not overreact without understanding the point. 
                  Sent from my iPhone
                   
                  =============================
                  On Apr 22, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:
                   
                  As I wrote before, blaming America is an easy, cheap and irresponsible way of shifting the culpability from where it really belongs; in this case, Pakistan itself. Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty’s assessment below is seriously flawed.
                   
                  In a school textbook in the 1960s, in the then East Pakistan, there was a story where a cow wanted to be sacrificed for Allah in order to go to heaven. In my tender mind, I wondered, how hateful, cow is like a god to the Hindus, yet this is in the textbook that all children have to read! In another history narrative in a textbook, occupation and plundering of the Somnath Temple by Muslim invaders were described as Somnath Bijoy (winning of Somnath). Do these sound like American foreign policy in Afghanistan?
                   
                  I would like to ask people like Mr. Chakrabarty to search their memory for facts like the following:
                   
                  1)       The resignation of Jogen Mandal in 1950 from the position of Minister of Law, Justice and Labor in Liaquat Ali Khan’s cabinet due to atrocities on Hindus in East Bengal. The government of Pakistan was hostile to religious minorities, not eager to uphold their rights – forcing Mr. Mandal to take a permanent shelter in India.
                  2)       The colossal scale atrocities on Hindus in Pakistan in 1965, during a war with India.
                  3)       The regular military of Pakistan killing Hindus, irrespective of political affiliations, in 1971.
                   
                  Ayub Khan was the dictator of Pakistan from 1958 to 1969. It would be foolish to suggest that he had nothing to do with the 1965 atrocities, or with the mindset of the Pakistani military that methodically killed innocent and non-violent Hindus in 1971. It would be absurd to think that the character of Zia-ul-Haq sprouted out all of a sudden like a weed from a civilized/innocent Pakistan.
                   
                  FYI: Jogen Mandal’s Resignation Letter, if the hyperlink above does not work: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Resignation_letter_of_Jogendra_Nath_Mandal
                   
                  Mr. Chakrabarty really needs to do some reading, recalling his memory, and thinking, before making the kind of comments that he made below. If we can not speak truthfully and honestly, let us keep silent, let us just enjoy our life away from talking in the public forums.
                   
                  Sukhamaya Bain
                   
                  =======================================================
                  From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@...>
                  To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 9:52 AM
                  Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                   
                  Although only about a 2-mimute-long video, it is pretty informative and enlightening. I was a school student in a Pakistani (eastern wing) school in sixties and so was Tarek Fatah. In the Bengali anthologies that we had to read, there was nothing anti-hindu or anti-Christian. We had great pieces from all great Hindu writers including Bankim. [When the nationalist movement was crystallizing in the eastern wing, Monem Khan became worried and requested Abdul Hye to write Rabindra-sangeet although the selections in the anthologies remain unchanged.] Looks like it was a similar case in West Pakistan also. From the short but incomplete speech, one can find that every thing started with Ziaul Huque and Talibanization of Afghanistan. I will say that this has been one of the evil and harmful spill over effects of the foreign policy of America in Afghanistan. One may argue that cold war is the root cause. Thus communalism was bolstered in Pakistan indirectly because of the American foreign policy.
                   
                  At this time it may be politically incorrect to say that Ayub Khan and his cabinet members were not fanatic Muslims like Ziaul Huque. As a matter fact in spirits they were pretty modern in their life style. Ayub Khan was found swimming with Christian Killer in a swimming pool! Mowdudi was given death sentence during his tenure for instigating riots against the Ahmediyas. For the first several years after birth, Pakistan was going through chaotic situation. Ayub Khan emerged as the "savior" of the politically unstable Pakistan, and with the dictatorial rule brought stability in the polititical arena of Pakistan for a while. He understood the then global politics in his own way and chose to be blessed by the Washington-Peking axis and as such resorted to anti-India policy to gather strength and thereby consolidate his position both internally and externally (SEATO-CENTO). He was too much a Panjabi and neglected East Pakistan (although it was a great source of the national earnings) and the other regions. He resorted to the policy of family planning and was greatly opposed by Jamaat and some other so called Islam-pasand political parties.    
                   
                  ================================================
                  From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
                  To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 8:24 PM
                  Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                   
                   
                  Listen to another piece of video about Hindus bashing in the school curriculum of Pakistan:
                   
                  --- On Fri, 4/20/12, Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@...> wrote:

                  From: Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@...>
                  Subject: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                  To: "Khobor" <khabor@yahoogroups.com>, "mokto mona" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                  Date: Friday, April 20, 2012, 9:23 AM

                   
                  ----- Forwarded Message -----
                  Subject: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                  YouTube Help Centre | email options | report spam
                  http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSarfarosh Naye Packet Mei Cheez Purani - Pakistani school books teach hatred against all the religious minorities ... Hindus & Ahmadis in particular. As a result of this filth, minorities have to suffer a lot in Pakistan. Minority Group Rights International (an international organization whose sole job is to raise awareness of minor
                • qar
                  Nice post member Roy!! Shalom! ... From: Jiten Roy To: mukto-mona Sent: Wed, Apr 25, 2012 5:15 am Subject: Re:
                  Message 8 of 22 , Apr 25, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Nice post member Roy!!

                    Shalom!


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
                    To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wed, Apr 25, 2012 5:15 am
                    Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"

                     
                    Thank you. Let me say this. Communalism is a different entity from religion. Religion is not the cause of communality. It’s the victim of communality. People exploit religion to foment communality. Those who follow religion correctly are not communal. It’s the borderline religious people, many of who has propensity to become communal for their own self-interest.
                    I my youth, we used to play soccer and volleyball with the Moulavi-teacher of our Primary School; he was our buddy. Also, Moulavi-teacher of our high school was my school-hostel super. He was a very strict religious man, but - used to love me like his sons. He used to guide me like my parents. I have written articles about him in Mukto-mona, and elsewhere before.
                    I believe - the trouble is with those who are borderline religious. They do not hesitate to use religion to foment hatred to achieve their political or self interest. Truly religious people will not dare to do so. 
                    Mostly, communality has been a tool for political leaders to achieve their goals. In case of Pakistan, it was the military rulers, who found this tool to bring majority population under their control at the expense of religious minority, in this case Hindus. Those military rulers were not religious, but used to act like one in public. There are other batch of people also, who would show their ultra religiosity outside only to exploit religion. These are dangerous people.
                    This is the truth – religion can exist without communality, but communality cannot exist without religion.
                    Jiten Roy

                    --- On Tue, 4/24/12, qar <qrahman@...> wrote:

                    From: qar <qrahman@...>
                    Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                    To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Tuesday, April 24, 2012, 3:50 AM

                     
                    While I agree with most of what you said about "Pakistani politics", I think many Indian politicians are "Play" with religion frequently. Even today Muslim bashing goes on unabated when the time is right. Frequent riots in India says a lot about the problem in "Modern India".

                    The major difference in early India and Pakistan was India was blessed with Gandhi (Nehru, Indira, Rajiv etc) family and Pakistan did not have such seasoned leadership.

                    In reality many Muslims also suffered for lack of good leadership in Pakistan. The "Maharani of Tripura" wanted to join the then East Pakistan and patiently waited almost two years to get some invitations (Around that time India swallowed Hyderabad and Kashmir with VERY different excuses) but our leaders back in Pakistan did not have the skills required to show statesmanship with people of Tripura. Specifically leaders of Bengali origin (Mostly Muslims) were pathetic in negotiations and lost (To newly founded India) more of "Undivided Bengal" and Pakistani Punjab gained more land as a result.  Murshidabad was a Muslim majority state but somehow it stayed with India, defying all logic!!

                    We can certainly criticize and "Bash" criminals but harassing people for their religion is unacceptable. Those of us blessed with some education have to stand united against all faith based bashing. It does not diminish anything from any faiths but exposes ignorants and cowards among us.


                    Shalom!




                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
                    To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Tue, Apr 24, 2012 8:27 am
                    Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"

                     
                    Let me ask, once again, why some people become successful, while others aren’t? The only reason is - some people can envision the real solution/problem directly, while others run around bushes. This is the basic principle that works in every field.
                     
                    As a result, many people can't envision the real problem Hindu-bashing in Pakistan, which, as a matter of fact, did not start with Ziaul Haque or American policy in the region. Tarek Fatah can conclude whatever he wants, but it really started from the birth of Pakistan. They have been spreading the poison of Hindu-bashing from the onset of Pakistan. This is how they could keep people on both sides separated for that long. Without Hindu-bashing, people would have revolted for reunification by now, like East and West Germany.
                     
                    India did not need such poisoning, as they were expecting possibility of reunification from the very beginning. Popular belief was - Pakistan would not survive for long. But, it did - through mind-poisoning with Hindu-bashing.
                     
                    Jiten Roy
                     

                    --- On Mon, 4/23/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:

                    From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...>
                    Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                    To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                    Date: Monday, April 23, 2012, 9:27 PM

                     
                    Well, Tarek Fatah's thesis is dead wrong; an over simplification by just blaming one dictator. Without honestly identifying the real problem of anti-Hindu and anti-non-Muslim socio-political culture of Pakistan, no real solution could come; does not matter who Tarek Fatah may be.
                     
                    ==============================

                    From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@...>
                    To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:34 PM
                    Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                     
                    I simply made a comment on 2-minute speech by Tarek Fatah. I still believe that Tarek Fatah is generally right. Please listen to the speech and re-read my post. You have gone beyond what Fatah is emphasizing on. I do not think neither Fatah nor I will disagree with you on the communal and anti-Indian politics of the Pakistani rulers. But using text books to antagonize the innocent minds against Hindus started with Ziaul Huque--that is Fatah's thesis. Do not overreact without understanding the point. 
                    Sent from my iPhone
                     
                    =============================
                    On Apr 22, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:
                     
                    As I wrote before, blaming America is an easy, cheap and irresponsible way of shifting the culpability from where it really belongs; in this case, Pakistan itself. Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty’s assessment below is seriously flawed.
                     
                    In a school textbook in the 1960s, in the then East Pakistan, there was a story where a cow wanted to be sacrificed for Allah in order to go to heaven. In my tender mind, I wondered, how hateful, cow is like a god to the Hindus, yet this is in the textbook that all children have to read! In another history narrative in a textbook, occupation and plundering of the Somnath Temple by Muslim invaders were described as Somnath Bijoy (winning of Somnath). Do these sound like American foreign policy in Afghanistan?
                     
                    I would like to ask people like Mr. Chakrabarty to search their memory for facts like the following:
                     
                    1)       The resignation of Jogen Mandal in 1950 from the position of Minister of Law, Justice and Labor in Liaquat Ali Khan’s cabinet due to atrocities on Hindus in East Bengal. The government of Pakistan was hostile to religious minorities, not eager to uphold their rights – forcing Mr. Mandal to take a permanent shelter in India.
                    2)       The colossal scale atrocities on Hindus in Pakistan in 1965, during a war with India.
                    3)       The regular military of Pakistan killing Hindus, irrespective of political affiliations, in 1971.
                     
                    Ayub Khan was the dictator of Pakistan from 1958 to 1969. It would be foolish to suggest that he had nothing to do with the 1965 atrocities, or with the mindset of the Pakistani military that methodically killed innocent and non-violent Hindus in 1971. It would be absurd to think that the character of Zia-ul-Haq sprouted out all of a sudden like a weed from a civilized/innocent Pakistan.
                     
                    FYI: Jogen Mandal’s Resignation Letter, if the hyperlink above does not work: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Resignation_letter_of_Jogendra_Nath_Mandal
                     
                    Mr. Chakrabarty really needs to do some reading, recalling his memory, and thinking, before making the kind of comments that he made below. If we can not speak truthfully and honestly, let us keep silent, let us just enjoy our life away from talking in the public forums.
                     
                    Sukhamaya Bain
                     
                    =======================================================
                    From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@...>
                    To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 9:52 AM
                    Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                     
                    Although only about a 2-mimute-long video, it is pretty informative and enlightening. I was a school student in a Pakistani (eastern wing) school in sixties and so was Tarek Fatah. In the Bengali anthologies that we had to read, there was nothing anti-hindu or anti-Christian. We had great pieces from all great Hindu writers including Bankim. [When the nationalist movement was crystallizing in the eastern wing, Monem Khan became worried and requested Abdul Hye to write Rabindra-sangeet although the selections in the anthologies remain unchanged.] Looks like it was a similar case in West Pakistan also. From the short but incomplete speech, one can find that every thing started with Ziaul Huque and Talibanization of Afghanistan. I will say that this has been one of the evil and harmful spill over effects of the foreign policy of America in Afghanistan. One may argue that cold war is the root cause. Thus communalism was bolstered in Pakistan indirectly because of the American foreign policy.
                     
                    At this time it may be politically incorrect to say that Ayub Khan and his cabinet members were not fanatic Muslims like Ziaul Huque. As a matter fact in spirits they were pretty modern in their life style. Ayub Khan was found swimming with Christian Killer in a swimming pool! Mowdudi was given death sentence during his tenure for instigating riots against the Ahmediyas. For the first several years after birth, Pakistan was going through chaotic situation. Ayub Khan emerged as the "savior" of the politically unstable Pakistan, and with the dictatorial rule brought stability in the polititical arena of Pakistan for a while. He understood the then global politics in his own way and chose to be blessed by the Washington-Peking axis and as such resorted to anti-India policy to gather strength and thereby consolidate his position both internally and externally (SEATO-CENTO). He was too much a Panjabi and neglected East Pakistan (although it was a great source of the national earnings) and the other regions. He resorted to the policy of family planning and was greatly opposed by Jamaat and some other so called Islam-pasand political parties.    
                     
                    ================================================
                    From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
                    To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 8:24 PM
                    Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                     
                     
                    Listen to another piece of video about Hindus bashing in the school curriculum of Pakistan:
                     
                    --- On Fri, 4/20/12, Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@...> wrote:

                    From: Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@...>
                    Subject: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                    To: "Khobor" <khabor@yahoogroups.com>, "mokto mona" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                    Date: Friday, April 20, 2012, 9:23 AM

                     
                    ----- Forwarded Message -----
                    Subject: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                    YouTube Help Centre | email options | report spam
                    http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSarfarosh Naye Packet Mei Cheez Purani - Pakistani school books teach hatred against all the religious minorities ... Hindus & Ahmadis in particular. As a result of this filth, minorities have to suffer a lot in Pakistan. Minority Group Rights International (an international organization whose sole job is to raise awareness of minor
                  • Sukhamaya Bain
                    I am confused by quite a few postings recently in Mukto-Mona, especially by Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty and Dr. Jiten Roy. Look at Dr. Roy’s comments below.  
                    Message 9 of 22 , Apr 25, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I am confused by quite a few postings recently in Mukto-Mona, especially by Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty and Dr. Jiten Roy. Look at Dr. Roy’s comments below.
                       
                      Here, he wrote,Religion is not the cause of communality.” However, only a few days back (April 21, 2012) in the thread “Religion & Communalism, he wrote, “Therefore, religions are at the very core of communalism.
                       
                      In the posting below, he thanked Mr. Q. A. Rahman. Is it for Mr. Rahman’s regret that the Pakistani politicians were not smart enough to have a bigger Islamic haven in the subcontinent? Just read Mr. Rahman’s posting below a little carefully. He did not criticize the Pakistani leaders for any other faults.
                       
                      Mr. Rahman expressed his opposition to “faith based bashing.” Well, looks like the Maharani of Tripura was as stupid as Jogen Mandal for the Namashudras and Tridib Roy for the Jumma people. Aren’t she and her people lucky? If her wish of 1947 came true, today some non-Muslims intellectuals of Tripura would be exchanging these academic talks with Muslims like Mr. Rahman, just like what Dr. Roy, Mr. Chakrabarty and I are doing. But the people of Tripura would be as sorry as the Hindus and the Jumma people of Bangladesh/Pakistan due to real “faith based bashing.”
                       
                      I do not think a two-nation theorist can be a real challenger of “faith based bashing.”
                       
                      Sukhamaya Bain
                       
                      =================================================

                      From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
                      To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 7:15 PM
                      Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                       
                      Thank you. Let me say this. Communalism is a different entity from religion. Religion is not the cause of communality. It’s the victim of communality. People exploit religion to foment communality. Those who follow religion correctly are not communal. It’s the borderline religious people, many of who has propensity to become communal for their own self-interest.
                      I my youth, we used to play soccer and volleyball with the Moulavi-teacher of our Primary School; he was our buddy. Also, Moulavi-teacher of our high school was my school-hostel super. He was a very strict religious man, but - used to love me like his sons. He used to guide me like my parents. I have written articles about him in Mukto-mona, and elsewhere before.
                      I believe - the trouble is with those who are borderline religious. They do not hesitate to use religion to foment hatred to achieve their political or self interest. Truly religious people will not dare to do so. 
                      Mostly, communality has been a tool for political leaders to achieve their goals. In case of Pakistan, it was the military rulers, who found this tool to bring majority population under their control at the expense of religious minority, in this case Hindus. Those military rulers were not religious, but used to act like one in public. There are other batch of people also, who would show their ultra religiosity outside only to exploit religion. These are dangerous people.
                      This is the truth – religion can exist without communality, but communality cannot exist without religion.
                      Jiten Roy
                      ===============================
                      --- On Tue, 4/24/12, qar <qrahman@...> wrote:

                      From: qar <qrahman@...>
                      Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                      To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Tuesday, April 24, 2012, 3:50 AM

                       
                      While I agree with most of what you said about "Pakistani politics", I think many Indian politicians are "Play" with religion frequently. Even today Muslim bashing goes on unabated when the time is right. Frequent riots in India says a lot about the problem in "Modern India". The major difference in early India and Pakistan was India was blessed with Gandhi (Nehru, Indira, Rajiv etc) family and Pakistan did not have such seasoned leadership. In reality many Muslims also suffered for lack of good leadership in Pakistan. The "Maharani of Tripura" wanted to join the then East Pakistan and patiently waited almost two years to get some invitations (Around that time India swallowed Hyderabad and Kashmir with VERY different excuses) but our leaders back in Pakistan did not have the skills required to show statesmanship with people of Tripura. Specifically leaders of Bengali origin (Mostly Muslims) were pathetic in negotiations and lost (To newly founded India) more of "Undivided Bengal" and Pakistani Punjab gained more land as a result.  Murshidabad was a Muslim majority state but somehow it stayed with India, defying all logic!! We can certainly criticize and "Bash" criminals but harassing people for their religion is unacceptable. Those of us blessed with some education have to stand united against all faith based bashing. It does not diminish anything from any faiths but exposes ignorants and cowards among us. Shalom!
                       
                      ====================================================
                      -----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Apr 24, 2012 8:27 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                       
                      Let me ask, once again, why some people become successful, while others aren’t? The only reason is - some people can envision the real solution/problem directly, while others run around bushes. This is the basic principle that works in every field.
                       
                      As a result, many people can't envision the real problem Hindu-bashing in Pakistan, which, as a matter of fact, did not start with Ziaul Haque or American policy in the region. Tarek Fatah can conclude whatever he wants, but it really started from the birth of Pakistan. They have been spreading the poison of Hindu-bashing from the onset of Pakistan. This is how they could keep people on both sides separated for that long. Without Hindu-bashing, people would have revolted for reunification by now, like East and West Germany.
                       
                      India did not need such poisoning, as they were expecting possibility of reunification from the very beginning. Popular belief was - Pakistan would not survive for long. But, it did - through mind-poisoning with Hindu-bashing.
                       
                      Jiten Roy
                       
                      --- On Mon, 4/23/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:

                      From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...>
                      Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                      To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                      Date: Monday, April 23, 2012, 9:27 PM

                       
                      Well, Tarek Fatah's thesis is dead wrong; an over simplification by just blaming one dictator. Without honestly identifying the real problem of anti-Hindu and anti-non-Muslim socio-political culture of Pakistan, no real solution could come; does not matter who Tarek Fatah may be.
                       
                      ==============================
                      From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@...>
                      To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:34 PM
                      Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                       
                      I simply made a comment on 2-minute speech by Tarek Fatah. I still believe that Tarek Fatah is generally right. Please listen to the speech and re-read my post. You have gone beyond what Fatah is emphasizing on. I do not think neither Fatah nor I will disagree with you on the communal and anti-Indian politics of the Pakistani rulers. But using text books to antagonize the innocent minds against Hindus started with Ziaul Huque--that is Fatah's thesis. Do not overreact without understanding the point.  Sent from my iPhone
                       
                      =============================
                      On Apr 22, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:
                       
                      As I wrote before, blaming America is an easy, cheap and irresponsible way of shifting the culpability from where it really belongs; in this case, Pakistan itself. Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty’s assessment below is seriously flawed.
                       
                      In a school textbook in the 1960s, in the then East Pakistan, there was a story where a cow wanted to be sacrificed for Allah in order to go to heaven. In my tender mind, I wondered, how hateful, cow is like a god to the Hindus, yet this is in the textbook that all children have to read! In another history narrative in a textbook, occupation and plundering of the Somnath Temple by Muslim invaders were described as Somnath Bijoy (winning of Somnath). Do these sound like American foreign policy in Afghanistan?
                       
                      I would like to ask people like Mr. Chakrabarty to search their memory for facts like the following:
                       
                      1)       The resignation of Jogen Mandal in 1950 from the position of Minister of Law, Justice and Labor in Liaquat Ali Khan’s cabinet due to atrocities on Hindus in East Bengal. The government of Pakistan was hostile to religious minorities, not eager to uphold their rights – forcing Mr. Mandal to take a permanent shelter in India.
                      2)       The colossal scale atrocities on Hindus in Pakistan in 1965, during a war with India.
                      3)       The regular military of Pakistan killing Hindus, irrespective of political affiliations, in 1971.
                       
                      Ayub Khan was the dictator of Pakistan from 1958 to 1969. It would be foolish to suggest that he had nothing to do with the 1965 atrocities, or with the mindset of the Pakistani military that methodically killed innocent and non-violent Hindus in 1971. It would be absurd to think that the character of Zia-ul-Haq sprouted out all of a sudden like a weed from a civilized/innocent Pakistan.
                       
                      FYI: Jogen Mandal’s Resignation Letter, if the hyperlink above does not work: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Resignation_letter_of_Jogendra_Nath_Mandal
                       
                      Mr. Chakrabarty really needs to do some reading, recalling his memory, and thinking, before making the kind of comments that he made below. If we can not speak truthfully and honestly, let us keep silent, let us just enjoy our life away from talking in the public forums.
                       
                      Sukhamaya Bain
                       
                      =======================================================
                      From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@...>
                      To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 9:52 AM
                      Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                       
                      Although only about a 2-mimute-long video, it is pretty informative and enlightening. I was a school student in a Pakistani (eastern wing) school in sixties and so was Tarek Fatah. In the Bengali anthologies that we had to read, there was nothing anti-hindu or anti-Christian. We had great pieces from all great Hindu writers including Bankim. [When the nationalist movement was crystallizing in the eastern wing, Monem Khan became worried and requested Abdul Hye to write Rabindra-sangeet although the selections in the anthologies remain unchanged.] Looks like it was a similar case in West Pakistan also. From the short but incomplete speech, one can find that every thing started with Ziaul Huque and Talibanization of Afghanistan. I will say that this has been one of the evil and harmful spill over effects of the foreign policy of America in Afghanistan. One may argue that cold war is the root cause. Thus communalism was bolstered in Pakistan indirectly because of the American foreign policy.
                       
                      At this time it may be politically incorrect to say that Ayub Khan and his cabinet members were not fanatic Muslims like Ziaul Huque. As a matter fact in spirits they were pretty modern in their life style. Ayub Khan was found swimming with Christian Killer in a swimming pool! Mowdudi was given death sentence during his tenure for instigating riots against the Ahmediyas. For the first several years after birth, Pakistan was going through chaotic situation. Ayub Khan emerged as the "savior" of the politically unstable Pakistan, and with the dictatorial rule brought stability in the polititical arena of Pakistan for a while. He understood the then global politics in his own way and chose to be blessed by the Washington-Peking axis and as such resorted to anti-India policy to gather strength and thereby consolidate his position both internally and externally (SEATO-CENTO). He was too much a Panjabi and neglected East Pakistan (although it was a great source of the national earnings) and the other regions. He resorted to the policy of family planning and was greatly opposed by Jamaat and some other so called Islam-pasand political parties.    
                       
                      ================================================
                      From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
                      To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 8:24 PM
                      Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                       
                       
                      Listen to another piece of video about Hindus bashing in the school curriculum of Pakistan:
                       
                      --- On Fri, 4/20/12, Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@...> wrote:

                      From: Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@...>
                      Subject: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                      To: "Khobor" <khabor@yahoogroups.com>, "mokto mona" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                      Date: Friday, April 20, 2012, 9:23 AM

                       
                      ----- Forwarded Message -----
                      Subject: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                      YouTube Help Centre | email options | report spam
                      http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSarfarosh Naye Packet Mei Cheez Purani - Pakistani school books teach hatred against all the religious minorities ... Hindus & Ahmadis in particular. As a result of this filth, minorities have to suffer a lot in Pakistan. Minority Group Rights International (an international organization whose sole job is to raise awareness of minor
                    • Jiten Roy
                      I understand the confusion from my recent post. That’s why – I gave two examples to show that actual God fearing people are not generally communal; it’s
                      Message 10 of 22 , Apr 26, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment

                        I understand the confusion from my recent post. That’s why – I gave two examples to show that actual God fearing people are not generally communal; it’s the borderline religious people, who do not hesitate to exploit religion to achieve their goals. Following that observation, I have concluded that religion can survive without communalism, but religious-communalism cannot survive without religion. As a result, religion is at the core of religious-communalism. There are other sorts of communalism also, like racial-communalism, tribal-communalism, etc.

                        Let me give another example of religious-communalism. When Khaleda Zia says – if you vote for Awami League, you will hear “Uludhoni’ from the Mosque - that’s a communal exploitation of religion. But, we cannot blame religion for her misuse of religion. This is what I meant by religious-communalism.  In previous posting - I also said that if there was no religion, there would have been no religious-communalism. It is like – we have headache, because we have head.

                        - Jiten Roy

                        --- On Wed, 4/25/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:

                        From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...>
                        Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                        To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                        Date: Wednesday, April 25, 2012, 10:24 PM

                         
                        I am confused by quite a few postings recently in Mukto-Mona, especially by Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty and Dr. Jiten Roy. Look at Dr. Roy’s comments below.
                         
                        Here, he wrote,Religion is not the cause of communality.” However, only a few days back (April 21, 2012) in the thread “Religion & Communalism, he wrote, “Therefore, religions are at the very core of communalism.
                         
                        In the posting below, he thanked Mr. Q. A. Rahman. Is it for Mr. Rahman’s regret that the Pakistani politicians were not smart enough to have a bigger Islamic haven in the subcontinent? Just read Mr. Rahman’s posting below a little carefully. He did not criticize the Pakistani leaders for any other faults.
                         
                        Mr. Rahman expressed his opposition to “faith based bashing.” Well, looks like the Maharani of Tripura was as stupid as Jogen Mandal for the Namashudras and Tridib Roy for the Jumma people. Aren’t she and her people lucky? If her wish of 1947 came true, today some non-Muslims intellectuals of Tripura would be exchanging these academic talks with Muslims like Mr. Rahman, just like what Dr. Roy, Mr. Chakrabarty and I are doing. But the people of Tripura would be as sorry as the Hindus and the Jumma people of Bangladesh/Pakistan due to real “faith based bashing.”
                         
                        I do not think a two-nation theorist can be a real challenger of “faith based bashing.”
                         
                        Sukhamaya Bain
                         
                        =================================================

                        From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
                        To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 7:15 PM
                        Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                         
                        Thank you. Let me say this. Communalism is a different entity from religion. Religion is not the cause of communality. It’s the victim of communality. People exploit religion to foment communality. Those who follow religion correctly are not communal. It’s the borderline religious people, many of who has propensity to become communal for their own self-interest.
                        I my youth, we used to play soccer and volleyball with the Moulavi-teacher of our Primary School; he was our buddy. Also, Moulavi-teacher of our high school was my school-hostel super. He was a very strict religious man, but - used to love me like his sons. He used to guide me like my parents. I have written articles about him in Mukto-mona, and elsewhere before.
                        I believe - the trouble is with those who are borderline religious. They do not hesitate to use religion to foment hatred to achieve their political or self interest. Truly religious people will not dare to do so. 
                        Mostly, communality has been a tool for political leaders to achieve their goals. In case of Pakistan, it was the military rulers, who found this tool to bring majority population under their control at the expense of religious minority, in this case Hindus. Those military rulers were not religious, but used to act like one in public. There are other batch of people also, who would show their ultra religiosity outside only to exploit religion. These are dangerous people.
                        This is the truth – religion can exist without communality, but communality cannot exist without religion.
                        Jiten Roy
                        ===============================
                        --- On Tue, 4/24/12, qar <qrahman@...> wrote:

                        From: qar <qrahman@...>
                        Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                        To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Tuesday, April 24, 2012, 3:50 AM

                         
                        While I agree with most of what you said about "Pakistani politics", I think many Indian politicians are "Play" with religion frequently. Even today Muslim bashing goes on unabated when the time is right. Frequent riots in India says a lot about the problem in "Modern India". The major difference in early India and Pakistan was India was blessed with Gandhi (Nehru, Indira, Rajiv etc) family and Pakistan did not have such seasoned leadership. In reality many Muslims also suffered for lack of good leadership in Pakistan. The "Maharani of Tripura" wanted to join the then East Pakistan and patiently waited almost two years to get some invitations (Around that time India swallowed Hyderabad and Kashmir with VERY different excuses) but our leaders back in Pakistan did not have the skills required to show statesmanship with people of Tripura. Specifically leaders of Bengali origin (Mostly Muslims) were pathetic in negotiations and lost (To newly founded India) more of "Undivided Bengal" and Pakistani Punjab gained more land as a result.  Murshidabad was a Muslim majority state but somehow it stayed with India, defying all logic!! We can certainly criticize and "Bash" criminals but harassing people for their religion is unacceptable. Those of us blessed with some education have to stand united against all faith based bashing. It does not diminish anything from any faiths but exposes ignorants and cowards among us. Shalom!
                         
                        ====================================================
                        -----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Apr 24, 2012 8:27 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                         
                        Let me ask, once again, why some people become successful, while others aren’t? The only reason is - some people can envision the real solution/problem directly, while others run around bushes. This is the basic principle that works in every field.
                         
                        As a result, many people can't envision the real problem Hindu-bashing in Pakistan, which, as a matter of fact, did not start with Ziaul Haque or American policy in the region. Tarek Fatah can conclude whatever he wants, but it really started from the birth of Pakistan. They have been spreading the poison of Hindu-bashing from the onset of Pakistan. This is how they could keep people on both sides separated for that long. Without Hindu-bashing, people would have revolted for reunification by now, like East and West Germany.
                         
                        India did not need such poisoning, as they were expecting possibility of reunification from the very beginning. Popular belief was - Pakistan would not survive for long. But, it did - through mind-poisoning with Hindu-bashing.
                         
                        Jiten Roy
                         
                        --- On Mon, 4/23/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:

                        From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...>
                        Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                        To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                        Date: Monday, April 23, 2012, 9:27 PM

                         
                        Well, Tarek Fatah's thesis is dead wrong; an over simplification by just blaming one dictator. Without honestly identifying the real problem of anti-Hindu and anti-non-Muslim socio-political culture of Pakistan, no real solution could come; does not matter who Tarek Fatah may be.
                         
                        ==============================
                        From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@...>
                        To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:34 PM
                        Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                         
                        I simply made a comment on 2-minute speech by Tarek Fatah. I still believe that Tarek Fatah is generally right. Please listen to the speech and re-read my post. You have gone beyond what Fatah is emphasizing on. I do not think neither Fatah nor I will disagree with you on the communal and anti-Indian politics of the Pakistani rulers. But using text books to antagonize the innocent minds against Hindus started with Ziaul Huque--that is Fatah's thesis. Do not overreact without understanding the point.  Sent from my iPhone
                         
                        =============================
                        On Apr 22, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:
                         
                        As I wrote before, blaming America is an easy, cheap and irresponsible way of shifting the culpability from where it really belongs; in this case, Pakistan itself. Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty’s assessment below is seriously flawed.
                         
                        In a school textbook in the 1960s, in the then East Pakistan, there was a story where a cow wanted to be sacrificed for Allah in order to go to heaven. In my tender mind, I wondered, how hateful, cow is like a god to the Hindus, yet this is in the textbook that all children have to read! In another history narrative in a textbook, occupation and plundering of the Somnath Temple by Muslim invaders were described as Somnath Bijoy (winning of Somnath). Do these sound like American foreign policy in Afghanistan?
                         
                        I would like to ask people like Mr. Chakrabarty to search their memory for facts like the following:
                         
                        1)       The resignation of Jogen Mandal in 1950 from the position of Minister of Law, Justice and Labor in Liaquat Ali Khan’s cabinet due to atrocities on Hindus in East Bengal. The government of Pakistan was hostile to religious minorities, not eager to uphold their rights – forcing Mr. Mandal to take a permanent shelter in India.
                        2)       The colossal scale atrocities on Hindus in Pakistan in 1965, during a war with India.
                        3)       The regular military of Pakistan killing Hindus, irrespective of political affiliations, in 1971.
                         
                        Ayub Khan was the dictator of Pakistan from 1958 to 1969. It would be foolish to suggest that he had nothing to do with the 1965 atrocities, or with the mindset of the Pakistani military that methodically killed innocent and non-violent Hindus in 1971. It would be absurd to think that the character of Zia-ul-Haq sprouted out all of a sudden like a weed from a civilized/innocent Pakistan.
                         
                        FYI: Jogen Mandal’s Resignation Letter, if the hyperlink above does not work: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Resignation_letter_of_Jogendra_Nath_Mandal
                         
                        Mr. Chakrabarty really needs to do some reading, recalling his memory, and thinking, before making the kind of comments that he made below. If we can not speak truthfully and honestly, let us keep silent, let us just enjoy our life away from talking in the public forums.
                         
                        Sukhamaya Bain
                         
                        =======================================================
                        From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@...>
                        To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 9:52 AM
                        Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                         
                        Although only about a 2-mimute-long video, it is pretty informative and enlightening. I was a school student in a Pakistani (eastern wing) school in sixties and so was Tarek Fatah. In the Bengali anthologies that we had to read, there was nothing anti-hindu or anti-Christian. We had great pieces from all great Hindu writers including Bankim. [When the nationalist movement was crystallizing in the eastern wing, Monem Khan became worried and requested Abdul Hye to write Rabindra-sangeet although the selections in the anthologies remain unchanged.] Looks like it was a similar case in West Pakistan also. From the short but incomplete speech, one can find that every thing started with Ziaul Huque and Talibanization of Afghanistan. I will say that this has been one of the evil and harmful spill over effects of the foreign policy of America in Afghanistan. One may argue that cold war is the root cause. Thus communalism was bolstered in Pakistan indirectly because of the American foreign policy.
                         
                        At this time it may be politically incorrect to say that Ayub Khan and his cabinet members were not fanatic Muslims like Ziaul Huque. As a matter fact in spirits they were pretty modern in their life style. Ayub Khan was found swimming with Christian Killer in a swimming pool! Mowdudi was given death sentence during his tenure for instigating riots against the Ahmediyas. For the first several years after birth, Pakistan was going through chaotic situation. Ayub Khan emerged as the "savior" of the politically unstable Pakistan, and with the dictatorial rule brought stability in the polititical arena of Pakistan for a while. He understood the then global politics in his own way and chose to be blessed by the Washington-Peking axis and as such resorted to anti-India policy to gather strength and thereby consolidate his position both internally and externally (SEATO-CENTO). He was too much a Panjabi and neglected East Pakistan (although it was a great source of the national earnings) and the other regions. He resorted to the policy of family planning and was greatly opposed by Jamaat and some other so called Islam-pasand political parties.    
                         
                        ================================================
                        From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
                        To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 8:24 PM
                        Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                         
                         
                        Listen to another piece of video about Hindus bashing in the school curriculum of Pakistan:
                         
                        --- On Fri, 4/20/12, Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@...> wrote:

                        From: Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@...>
                        Subject: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                        To: "Khobor" <khabor@yahoogroups.com>, "mokto mona" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                        Date: Friday, April 20, 2012, 9:23 AM

                         
                        ----- Forwarded Message -----
                        Subject: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                        YouTube Help Centre | email options | report spam
                        http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSarfarosh Naye Packet Mei Cheez Purani - Pakistani school books teach hatred against all the religious minorities ... Hindus & Ahmadis in particular. As a result of this filth, minorities have to suffer a lot in Pakistan. Minority Group Rights International (an international organization whose sole job is to raise awareness of minor
                      • qar
                        In the posting below, he thanked Mr. Q. A. Rahman. Is it for Mr. Rahman’s regret that the Pakistani politicians were not smart enough to have a bigger
                        Message 11 of 22 , Apr 27, 2012
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                          In the posting below, he thanked Mr. Q. A. Rahman. Is it for Mr. Rahman’s regret that the Pakistani politicians were not smart enough to have a bigger Islamic haven in the subcontinent?


                          >>>>>>> With due respect, I think you are mixing up too many issue.

                          The "Tripura" example was given to show LACK of leadership of the than Pakistani leaders. Pakistan was a country like most other countries. It did not work very well for the citizens because of bad leaders and greedy opportunists who cared more then their own interest than country or even their religion. It is wrong to think only Hindus suffered, I feel ALL people suffered. Hindus suffered more because of twisted ideology of blaming Hindus for everything bad.

                          Today I strongly blame India for not giving us "Fair share" of water for ALL of our people. Religion has NOTHING to do with it. But you will find most of my people looking at such vital issue through religious prism!!

                          Aren’t she and her people lucky?

                          I understand it is 'Your opinion" and we'll never know how it would have turned out. If we had few visionary leaders, we could have been in much better shape. I do not know where you live (BD or other country) but last 10 years Bangladesh made a lot of progress. I strongly feel it will continue. If our political leaders were little more tolerant of each others, we could have benefited more but I try to live with what I have not what I wished for.

                          People of Tripura has historical ties to Bengal and they are comfortable around us. Now it is history and ONLY subject of academic discussion. Nothing more ...

                          As far as communal problem is concern, it can be lessen by strengthening monitoring institutions (Judicial system, police, education etc) and visionary leaders. Those who are from non-Muslim background are aware of minority persecution but I see oppression of powerful people over powerless continues and it is blind to religion most of the time. The minority persecution is just an ugly extension of that. I bet you those who abuse Hindus (Abusing religion) are mostly ignorant about what Islam says (Or cherry picking verses to fulfill their own darn wishes).

                          Lastly, I'll share a true story. I was taking an interview for a post. One gentleman came with a CV claiming he had a masters degree in Islamic history. I asked him to tell me the meaning of the word "Jihad" and he gave me the wrong answer!!

                          Later he confessed, like secular education system they are given few questions to remember and he just memorized them without understanding most of it. That is why I say, authentic Islamic education can help to lessen hatred among faith communities. The positive part of this story is I also encountered many young men who impressed me with their knowledge. So I am hopeful for a better Bangladesh.


                          Shalom!

                           



                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...>
                          To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Fri, Apr 27, 2012 1:17 am
                          Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"

                           
                          I am confused by quite a few postings recently in Mukto-Mona, especially by Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty and Dr. Jiten Roy. Look at Dr. Roy’s comments below.
                           
                          Here, he wrote,Religion is not the cause of communality.” However, only a few days back (April 21, 2012) in the thread “Religion & Communalism, he wrote, “Therefore, religions are at the very core of communalism.
                           
                          In the posting below, he thanked Mr. Q. A. Rahman. Is it for Mr. Rahman’s regret that the Pakistani politicians were not smart enough to have a bigger Islamic haven in the subcontinent? Just read Mr. Rahman’s posting below a little carefully. He did not criticize the Pakistani leaders for any other faults.
                           
                          Mr. Rahman expressed his opposition to “faith based bashing.” Well, looks like the Maharani of Tripura was as stupid as Jogen Mandal for the Namashudras and Tridib Roy for the Jumma people. Aren’t she and her people lucky? If her wish of 1947 came true, today some non-Muslims intellectuals of Tripura would be exchanging these academic talks with Muslims like Mr. Rahman, just like what Dr. Roy, Mr. Chakrabarty and I are doing. But the people of Tripura would be as sorry as the Hindus and the Jumma people of Bangladesh/Pakistan due to real “faith based bashing.”
                           
                          I do not think a two-nation theorist can be a real challenger of “faith based bashing.”
                           
                          Sukhamaya Bain
                           
                          =================================================

                          From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
                          To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 7:15 PM
                          Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                           
                          Thank you. Let me say this. Communalism is a different entity from religion. Religion is not the cause of communality. It’s the victim of communality. People exploit religion to foment communality. Those who follow religion correctly are not communal. It’s the borderline religious people, many of who has propensity to become communal for their own self-interest.
                          I my youth, we used to play soccer and volleyball with the Moulavi-teacher of our Primary School; he was our buddy. Also, Moulavi-teacher of our high school was my school-hostel super. He was a very strict religious man, but - used to love me like his sons. He used to guide me like my parents. I have written articles about him in Mukto-mona, and elsewhere before.
                          I believe - the trouble is with those who are borderline religious. They do not hesitate to use religion to foment hatred to achieve their political or self interest. Truly religious people will not dare to do so. 
                          Mostly, communality has been a tool for political leaders to achieve their goals. In case of Pakistan, it was the military rulers, who found this tool to bring majority population under their control at the expense of religious minority, in this case Hindus. Those military rulers were not religious, but used to act like one in public. There are other batch of people also, who would show their ultra religiosity outside only to exploit religion. These are dangerous people.
                          This is the truth – religion can exist without communality, but communality cannot exist without religion.
                          Jiten Roy
                          ===============================
                          --- On Tue, 4/24/12, qar <qrahman@...> wrote:

                          From: qar <qrahman@...>
                          Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                          To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Tuesday, April 24, 2012, 3:50 AM

                           
                          While I agree with most of what you said about "Pakistani politics", I think many Indian politicians are "Play" with religion frequently. Even today Muslim bashing goes on unabated when the time is right. Frequent riots in India says a lot about the problem in "Modern India". The major difference in early India and Pakistan was India was blessed with Gandhi (Nehru, Indira, Rajiv etc) family and Pakistan did not have such seasoned leadership. In reality many Muslims also suffered for lack of good leadership in Pakistan. The "Maharani of Tripura" wanted to join the then East Pakistan and patiently waited almost two years to get some invitations (Around that time India swallowed Hyderabad and Kashmir with VERY different excuses) but our leaders back in Pakistan did not have the skills required to show statesmanship with people of Tripura. Specifically leaders of Bengali origin (Mostly Muslims) were pathetic in negotiations and lost (To newly founded India) more of "Undivided Bengal" and Pakistani Punjab gained more land as a result.  Murshidabad was a Muslim majority state but somehow it stayed with India, defying all logic!! We can certainly criticize and "Bash" criminals but harassing people for their religion is unacceptable. Those of us blessed with some education have to stand united against all faith based bashing. It does not diminish anything from any faiths but exposes ignorants and cowards among us. Shalom!
                           
                          ====================================================
                          -----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Apr 24, 2012 8:27 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                           
                          Let me ask, once again, why some people become successful, while others aren’t? The only reason is - some people can envision the real solution/problem directly, while others run around bushes. This is the basic principle that works in every field.
                           
                          As a result, many people can't envision the real problem Hindu-bashing in Pakistan, which, as a matter of fact, did not start with Ziaul Haque or American policy in the region. Tarek Fatah can conclude whatever he wants, but it really started from the birth of Pakistan. They have been spreading the poison of Hindu-bashing from the onset of Pakistan. This is how they could keep people on both sides separated for that long. Without Hindu-bashing, people would have revolted for reunification by now, like East and West Germany.
                           
                          India did not need such poisoning, as they were expecting possibility of reunification from the very beginning. Popular belief was - Pakistan would not survive for long. But, it did - through mind-poisoning with Hindu-bashing.
                           
                          Jiten Roy
                           
                          --- On Mon, 4/23/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:

                          From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...>
                          Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                          To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                          Date: Monday, April 23, 2012, 9:27 PM

                           
                          Well, Tarek Fatah's thesis is dead wrong; an over simplification by just blaming one dictator. Without honestly identifying the real problem of anti-Hindu and anti-non-Muslim socio-political culture of Pakistan, no real solution could come; does not matter who Tarek Fatah may be.
                           
                          ==============================
                          From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@...>
                          To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:34 PM
                          Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                           
                          I simply made a comment on 2-minute speech by Tarek Fatah. I still believe that Tarek Fatah is generally right. Please listen to the speech and re-read my post. You have gone beyond what Fatah is emphasizing on. I do not think neither Fatah nor I will disagree with you on the communal and anti-Indian politics of the Pakistani rulers. But using text books to antagonize the innocent minds against Hindus started with Ziaul Huque--that is Fatah's thesis. Do not overreact without understanding the point.  Sent from my iPhone
                           
                          =============================
                          On Apr 22, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:
                           
                          As I wrote before, blaming America is an easy, cheap and irresponsible way of shifting the culpability from where it really belongs; in this case, Pakistan itself. Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty’s assessment below is seriously flawed.
                           
                          In a school textbook in the 1960s, in the then East Pakistan, there was a story where a cow wanted to be sacrificed for Allah in order to go to heaven. In my tender mind, I wondered, how hateful, cow is like a god to the Hindus, yet this is in the textbook that all children have to read! In another history narrative in a textbook, occupation and plundering of the Somnath Temple by Muslim invaders were described as Somnath Bijoy (winning of Somnath). Do these sound like American foreign policy in Afghanistan?
                           
                          I would like to ask people like Mr. Chakrabarty to search their memory for facts like the following:
                           
                          1)       The resignation of Jogen Mandal in 1950 from the position of Minister of Law, Justice and Labor in Liaquat Ali Khan’s cabinet due to atrocities on Hindus in East Bengal. The government of Pakistan was hostile to religious minorities, not eager to uphold their rights – forcing Mr. Mandal to take a permanent shelter in India.
                          2)       The colossal scale atrocities on Hindus in Pakistan in 1965, during a war with India.
                          3)       The regular military of Pakistan killing Hindus, irrespective of political affiliations, in 1971.
                           
                          Ayub Khan was the dictator of Pakistan from 1958 to 1969. It would be foolish to suggest that he had nothing to do with the 1965 atrocities, or with the mindset of the Pakistani military that methodically killed innocent and non-violent Hindus in 1971. It would be absurd to think that the character of Zia-ul-Haq sprouted out all of a sudden like a weed from a civilized/innocent Pakistan.
                           
                          FYI: Jogen Mandal’s Resignation Letter, if the hyperlink above does not work: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Resignation_letter_of_Jogendra_Nath_Mandal
                           
                          Mr. Chakrabarty really needs to do some reading, recalling his memory, and thinking, before making the kind of comments that he made below. If we can not speak truthfully and honestly, let us keep silent, let us just enjoy our life away from talking in the public forums.
                           
                          Sukhamaya Bain
                           
                          =======================================================
                          From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@...>
                          To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 9:52 AM
                          Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                           
                          Although only about a 2-mimute-long video, it is pretty informative and enlightening. I was a school student in a Pakistani (eastern wing) school in sixties and so was Tarek Fatah. In the Bengali anthologies that we had to read, there was nothing anti-hindu or anti-Christian. We had great pieces from all great Hindu writers including Bankim. [When the nationalist movement was crystallizing in the eastern wing, Monem Khan became worried and requested Abdul Hye to write Rabindra-sangeet although the selections in the anthologies remain unchanged.] Looks like it was a similar case in West Pakistan also. From the short but incomplete speech, one can find that every thing started with Ziaul Huque and Talibanization of Afghanistan. I will say that this has been one of the evil and harmful spill over effects of the foreign policy of America in Afghanistan. One may argue that cold war is the root cause. Thus communalism was bolstered in Pakistan indirectly because of the American foreign policy.
                           
                          At this time it may be politically incorrect to say that Ayub Khan and his cabinet members were not fanatic Muslims like Ziaul Huque. As a matter fact in spirits they were pretty modern in their life style. Ayub Khan was found swimming with Christian Killer in a swimming pool! Mowdudi was given death sentence during his tenure for instigating riots against the Ahmediyas. For the first several years after birth, Pakistan was going through chaotic situation. Ayub Khan emerged as the "savior" of the politically unstable Pakistan, and with the dictatorial rule brought stability in the polititical arena of Pakistan for a while. He understood the then global politics in his own way and chose to be blessed by the Washington-Peking axis and as such resorted to anti-India policy to gather strength and thereby consolidate his position both internally and externally (SEATO-CENTO). He was too much a Panjabi and neglected East Pakistan (although it was a great source of the national earnings) and the other regions. He resorted to the policy of family planning and was greatly opposed by Jamaat and some other so called Islam-pasand political parties.    
                           
                          ================================================
                          From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
                          To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 8:24 PM
                          Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                           
                           
                          Listen to another piece of video about Hindus bashing in the school curriculum of Pakistan:
                           
                          --- On Fri, 4/20/12, Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@...> wrote:

                          From: Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@...>
                          Subject: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                          To: "Khobor" <khabor@yahoogroups.com>, "mokto mona" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                          Date: Friday, April 20, 2012, 9:23 AM

                           
                          ----- Forwarded Message -----
                          Subject: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                          YouTube Help Centre | email options | report spam
                          http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSarfarosh Naye Packet Mei Cheez Purani - Pakistani school books teach hatred against all the religious minorities ... Hindus & Ahmadis in particular. As a result of this filth, minorities have to suffer a lot in Pakistan. Minority Group Rights International (an international organization whose sole job is to raise awareness of minor
                        • qar
                          Well said member Roy. Agree with your sentiment. ... From: Jiten Roy To: mukto-mona Sent: Fri, Apr 27, 2012
                          Message 12 of 22 , Apr 27, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Well said member Roy. Agree with your sentiment.


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
                            To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Fri, Apr 27, 2012 6:48 am
                            Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"

                             

                            I understand the confusion from my recent post. That’s why – I gave two examples to show that actual God fearing people are not generally communal; it’s the borderline religious people, who do not hesitate to exploit religion to achieve their goals. Following that observation, I have concluded that religion can survive without communalism, but religious-communalism cannot survive without religion. As a result, religion is at the core of religious-communalism. There are other sorts of communalism also, like racial-communalism, tribal-communalism, etc.
                            Let me give another example of religious-communalism. When Khaleda Zia says – if you vote for Awami League, you will hear “Uludhoni’ from the Mosque - that’s a communal exploitation of religion. But, we cannot blame religion for her misuse of religion. This is what I meant by religious-communalism.  In previous posting - I also said that if there was no religion, there would have been no religious-communalism. It is like – we have headache, because we have head.
                            - Jiten Roy
                            --- On Wed, 4/25/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:

                            From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...>
                            Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                            To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                            Date: Wednesday, April 25, 2012, 10:24 PM

                             
                            I am confused by quite a few postings recently in Mukto-Mona, especially by Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty and Dr. Jiten Roy. Look at Dr. Roy’s comments below.
                             
                            Here, he wrote,Religion is not the cause of communality.” However, only a few days back (April 21, 2012) in the thread “Religion & Communalism, he wrote, “Therefore, religions are at the very core of communalism.
                             
                            In the posting below, he thanked Mr. Q. A. Rahman. Is it for Mr. Rahman’s regret that the Pakistani politicians were not smart enough to have a bigger Islamic haven in the subcontinent? Just read Mr. Rahman’s posting below a little carefully. He did not criticize the Pakistani leaders for any other faults.
                             
                            Mr. Rahman expressed his opposition to “faith based bashing.” Well, looks like the Maharani of Tripura was as stupid as Jogen Mandal for the Namashudras and Tridib Roy for the Jumma people. Aren’t she and her people lucky? If her wish of 1947 came true, today some non-Muslims intellectuals of Tripura would be exchanging these academic talks with Muslims like Mr. Rahman, just like what Dr. Roy, Mr. Chakrabarty and I are doing. But the people of Tripura would be as sorry as the Hindus and the Jumma people of Bangladesh/Pakistan due to real “faith based bashing.”
                             
                            I do not think a two-nation theorist can be a real challenger of “faith based bashing.”
                             
                            Sukhamaya Bain
                             
                            =================================================

                            From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
                            To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 7:15 PM
                            Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                             
                            Thank you. Let me say this. Communalism is a different entity from religion. Religion is not the cause of communality. It’s the victim of communality. People exploit religion to foment communality. Those who follow religion correctly are not communal. It’s the borderline religious people, many of who has propensity to become communal for their own self-interest.
                            I my youth, we used to play soccer and volleyball with the Moulavi-teacher of our Primary School; he was our buddy. Also, Moulavi-teacher of our high school was my school-hostel super. He was a very strict religious man, but - used to love me like his sons. He used to guide me like my parents. I have written articles about him in Mukto-mona, and elsewhere before.
                            I believe - the trouble is with those who are borderline religious. They do not hesitate to use religion to foment hatred to achieve their political or self interest. Truly religious people will not dare to do so. 
                            Mostly, communality has been a tool for political leaders to achieve their goals. In case of Pakistan, it was the military rulers, who found this tool to bring majority population under their control at the expense of religious minority, in this case Hindus. Those military rulers were not religious, but used to act like one in public. There are other batch of people also, who would show their ultra religiosity outside only to exploit religion. These are dangerous people.
                            This is the truth – religion can exist without communality, but communality cannot exist without religion.
                            Jiten Roy
                            ===============================
                            --- On Tue, 4/24/12, qar <qrahman@...> wrote:

                            From: qar <qrahman@...>
                            Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                            To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Tuesday, April 24, 2012, 3:50 AM

                             
                            While I agree with most of what you said about "Pakistani politics", I think many Indian politicians are "Play" with religion frequently. Even today Muslim bashing goes on unabated when the time is right. Frequent riots in India says a lot about the problem in "Modern India". The major difference in early India and Pakistan was India was blessed with Gandhi (Nehru, Indira, Rajiv etc) family and Pakistan did not have such seasoned leadership. In reality many Muslims also suffered for lack of good leadership in Pakistan. The "Maharani of Tripura" wanted to join the then East Pakistan and patiently waited almost two years to get some invitations (Around that time India swallowed Hyderabad and Kashmir with VERY different excuses) but our leaders back in Pakistan did not have the skills required to show statesmanship with people of Tripura. Specifically leaders of Bengali origin (Mostly Muslims) were pathetic in negotiations and lost (To newly founded India) more of "Undivided Bengal" and Pakistani Punjab gained more land as a result.  Murshidabad was a Muslim majority state but somehow it stayed with India, defying all logic!! We can certainly criticize and "Bash" criminals but harassing people for their religion is unacceptable. Those of us blessed with some education have to stand united against all faith based bashing. It does not diminish anything from any faiths but exposes ignorants and cowards among us. Shalom!
                             
                            ====================================================
                            -----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Apr 24, 2012 8:27 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                             
                            Let me ask, once again, why some people become successful, while others aren’t? The only reason is - some people can envision the real solution/problem directly, while others run around bushes. This is the basic principle that works in every field.
                             
                            As a result, many people can't envision the real problem Hindu-bashing in Pakistan, which, as a matter of fact, did not start with Ziaul Haque or American policy in the region. Tarek Fatah can conclude whatever he wants, but it really started from the birth of Pakistan. They have been spreading the poison of Hindu-bashing from the onset of Pakistan. This is how they could keep people on both sides separated for that long. Without Hindu-bashing, people would have revolted for reunification by now, like East and West Germany.
                             
                            India did not need such poisoning, as they were expecting possibility of reunification from the very beginning. Popular belief was - Pakistan would not survive for long. But, it did - through mind-poisoning with Hindu-bashing.
                             
                            Jiten Roy
                             
                            --- On Mon, 4/23/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:

                            From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...>
                            Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                            To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                            Date: Monday, April 23, 2012, 9:27 PM

                             
                            Well, Tarek Fatah's thesis is dead wrong; an over simplification by just blaming one dictator. Without honestly identifying the real problem of anti-Hindu and anti-non-Muslim socio-political culture of Pakistan, no real solution could come; does not matter who Tarek Fatah may be.
                             
                            ==============================
                            From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@...>
                            To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:34 PM
                            Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                             
                            I simply made a comment on 2-minute speech by Tarek Fatah. I still believe that Tarek Fatah is generally right. Please listen to the speech and re-read my post. You have gone beyond what Fatah is emphasizing on. I do not think neither Fatah nor I will disagree with you on the communal and anti-Indian politics of the Pakistani rulers. But using text books to antagonize the innocent minds against Hindus started with Ziaul Huque--that is Fatah's thesis. Do not overreact without understanding the point.  Sent from my iPhone
                             
                            =============================
                            On Apr 22, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:
                             
                            As I wrote before, blaming America is an easy, cheap and irresponsible way of shifting the culpability from where it really belongs; in this case, Pakistan itself. Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty’s assessment below is seriously flawed.
                             
                            In a school textbook in the 1960s, in the then East Pakistan, there was a story where a cow wanted to be sacrificed for Allah in order to go to heaven. In my tender mind, I wondered, how hateful, cow is like a god to the Hindus, yet this is in the textbook that all children have to read! In another history narrative in a textbook, occupation and plundering of the Somnath Temple by Muslim invaders were described as Somnath Bijoy (winning of Somnath). Do these sound like American foreign policy in Afghanistan?
                             
                            I would like to ask people like Mr. Chakrabarty to search their memory for facts like the following:
                             
                            1)       The resignation of Jogen Mandal in 1950 from the position of Minister of Law, Justice and Labor in Liaquat Ali Khan’s cabinet due to atrocities on Hindus in East Bengal. The government of Pakistan was hostile to religious minorities, not eager to uphold their rights – forcing Mr. Mandal to take a permanent shelter in India.
                            2)       The colossal scale atrocities on Hindus in Pakistan in 1965, during a war with India.
                            3)       The regular military of Pakistan killing Hindus, irrespective of political affiliations, in 1971.
                             
                            Ayub Khan was the dictator of Pakistan from 1958 to 1969. It would be foolish to suggest that he had nothing to do with the 1965 atrocities, or with the mindset of the Pakistani military that methodically killed innocent and non-violent Hindus in 1971. It would be absurd to think that the character of Zia-ul-Haq sprouted out all of a sudden like a weed from a civilized/innocent Pakistan.
                             
                            FYI: Jogen Mandal’s Resignation Letter, if the hyperlink above does not work: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Resignation_letter_of_Jogendra_Nath_Mandal
                             
                            Mr. Chakrabarty really needs to do some reading, recalling his memory, and thinking, before making the kind of comments that he made below. If we can not speak truthfully and honestly, let us keep silent, let us just enjoy our life away from talking in the public forums.
                             
                            Sukhamaya Bain
                             
                            =======================================================
                            From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@...>
                            To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 9:52 AM
                            Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                             
                            Although only about a 2-mimute-long video, it is pretty informative and enlightening. I was a school student in a Pakistani (eastern wing) school in sixties and so was Tarek Fatah. In the Bengali anthologies that we had to read, there was nothing anti-hindu or anti-Christian. We had great pieces from all great Hindu writers including Bankim. [When the nationalist movement was crystallizing in the eastern wing, Monem Khan became worried and requested Abdul Hye to write Rabindra-sangeet although the selections in the anthologies remain unchanged.] Looks like it was a similar case in West Pakistan also. From the short but incomplete speech, one can find that every thing started with Ziaul Huque and Talibanization of Afghanistan. I will say that this has been one of the evil and harmful spill over effects of the foreign policy of America in Afghanistan. One may argue that cold war is the root cause. Thus communalism was bolstered in Pakistan indirectly because of the American foreign policy.
                             
                            At this time it may be politically incorrect to say that Ayub Khan and his cabinet members were not fanatic Muslims like Ziaul Huque. As a matter fact in spirits they were pretty modern in their life style. Ayub Khan was found swimming with Christian Killer in a swimming pool! Mowdudi was given death sentence during his tenure for instigating riots against the Ahmediyas. For the first several years after birth, Pakistan was going through chaotic situation. Ayub Khan emerged as the "savior" of the politically unstable Pakistan, and with the dictatorial rule brought stability in the polititical arena of Pakistan for a while. He understood the then global politics in his own way and chose to be blessed by the Washington-Peking axis and as such resorted to anti-India policy to gather strength and thereby consolidate his position both internally and externally (SEATO-CENTO). He was too much a Panjabi and neglected East Pakistan (although it was a great source of the national earnings) and the other regions. He resorted to the policy of family planning and was greatly opposed by Jamaat and some other so called Islam-pasand political parties.    
                             
                            ================================================
                            From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
                            To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 8:24 PM
                            Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                             
                             
                            Listen to another piece of video about Hindus bashing in the school curriculum of Pakistan:
                             
                            --- On Fri, 4/20/12, Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@...> wrote:

                            From: Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@...>
                            Subject: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                            To: "Khobor" <khabor@yahoogroups.com>, "mokto mona" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                            Date: Friday, April 20, 2012, 9:23 AM

                             
                            ----- Forwarded Message -----
                            Subject: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                            YouTube Help Centre | email options | report spam
                            http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSarfarosh Naye Packet Mei Cheez Purani - Pakistani school books teach hatred against all the religious minorities ... Hindus & Ahmadis in particular. As a result of this filth, minorities have to suffer a lot in Pakistan. Minority Group Rights International (an international organization whose sole job is to raise awareness of minor
                          • Subimal Chakrabarty
                            Let me make this interesting thread a little bit longer. 1. Roy s Borderline religious theory cannot be verified empirically. Both religious fundamentalists
                            Message 13 of 22 , Apr 28, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Let me make this interesting thread a little bit longer. 
                              1. Roy's "Borderline religious" theory cannot be verified empirically. Both religious fundamentalists and atheists born into a particular religious group can be highly communal. 
                              2. Earlier on in this forum we had discussions about Radcliffe dissection of India. It was irrational in many cases. Hindu majority Khulna went to Pakistan. 
                              3. Maharajas, Maharanis, etc. did not care about the wishes of the people. They would join any country that would guarantee their statuesque. 


                              Sent from my iPhone

                              On Apr 25, 2012, at 9:24 PM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:

                               

                              I am confused by quite a few postings recently in Mukto-Mona, especially by Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty and Dr. Jiten Roy. Look at Dr. Roy’s comments below.
                               
                              Here, he wrote,Religion is not the cause of communality.” However, only a few days back (April 21, 2012) in the thread “Religion & Communalism, he wrote, “Therefore, religions are at the very core of communalism.
                               
                              In the posting below, he thanked Mr. Q. A. Rahman. Is it for Mr. Rahman’s regret that the Pakistani politicians were not smart enough to have a bigger Islamic haven in the subcontinent? Just read Mr. Rahman’s posting below a little carefully. He did not criticize the Pakistani leaders for any other faults.
                               
                              Mr. Rahman expressed his opposition to “faith based bashing.” Well, looks like the Maharani of Tripura was as stupid as Jogen Mandal for the Namashudras and Tridib Roy for the Jumma people. Aren’t she and her people lucky? If her wish of 1947 came true, today some non-Muslims intellectuals of Tripura would be exchanging these academic talks with Muslims like Mr. Rahman, just like what Dr. Roy, Mr. Chakrabarty and I are doing. But the people of Tripura would be as sorry as the Hindus and the Jumma people of Bangladesh/Pakistan due to real “faith based bashing.”
                               
                              I do not think a two-nation theorist can be a real challenger of “faith based bashing.”
                               
                              Sukhamaya Bain
                               
                              =================================================

                              From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
                              To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 7:15 PM
                              Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                               
                              Thank you. Let me say this. Communalism is a different entity from religion. Religion is not the cause of communality. It’s the victim of communality. People exploit religion to foment communality. Those who follow religion correctly are not communal. It’s the borderline religious people, many of who has propensity to become communal for their own self-interest.
                              I my youth, we used to play soccer and volleyball with the Moulavi-teacher of our Primary School; he was our buddy. Also, Moulavi-teacher of our high school was my school-hostel super. He was a very strict religious man, but - used to love me like his sons. He used to guide me like my parents. I have written articles about him in Mukto-mona, and elsewhere before.
                              I believe - the trouble is with those who are borderline religious. They do not hesitate to use religion to foment hatred to achieve their political or self interest. Truly religious people will not dare to do so. 
                              Mostly, communality has been a tool for political leaders to achieve their goals. In case of Pakistan, it was the military rulers, who found this tool to bring majority population under their control at the expense of religious minority, in this case Hindus. Those military rulers were not religious, but used to act like one in public. There are other batch of people also, who would show their ultra religiosity outside only to exploit religion. These are dangerous people.
                              This is the truth – religion can exist without communality, but communality cannot exist without religion.
                              Jiten Roy
                              ===============================
                              --- On Tue, 4/24/12, qar <qrahman@...> wrote:

                              From: qar <qrahman@...>
                              Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                              To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Tuesday, April 24, 2012, 3:50 AM

                               
                              While I agree with most of what you said about "Pakistani politics", I think many Indian politicians are "Play" with religion frequently. Even today Muslim bashing goes on unabated when the time is right. Frequent riots in India says a lot about the problem in "Modern India". The major difference in early India and Pakistan was India was blessed with Gandhi (Nehru, Indira, Rajiv etc) family and Pakistan did not have such seasoned leadership. In reality many Muslims also suffered for lack of good leadership in Pakistan. The "Maharani of Tripura" wanted to join the then East Pakistan and patiently waited almost two years to get some invitations (Around that time India swallowed Hyderabad and Kashmir with VERY different excuses) but our leaders back in Pakistan did not have the skills required to show statesmanship with people of Tripura. Specifically leaders of Bengali origin (Mostly Muslims) were pathetic in negotiations and lost (To newly founded India) more of "Undivided Bengal" and Pakistani Punjab gained more land as a result.  Murshidabad was a Muslim majority state but somehow it stayed with India, defying all logic!! We can certainly criticize and "Bash" criminals but harassing people for their religion is unacceptable. Those of us blessed with some education have to stand united against all faith based bashing. It does not diminish anything from any faiths but exposes ignorants and cowards among us. Shalom!
                               
                              ====================================================
                              -----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Apr 24, 2012 8:27 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                               
                              Let me ask, once again, why some people become successful, while others aren’t? The only reason is - some people can envision the real solution/problem directly, while others run around bushes. This is the basic principle that works in every field.
                               
                              As a result, many people can't envision the real problem Hindu-bashing in Pakistan, which, as a matter of fact, did not start with Ziaul Haque or American policy in the region. Tarek Fatah can conclude whatever he wants, but it really started from the birth of Pakistan. They have been spreading the poison of Hindu-bashing from the onset of Pakistan. This is how they could keep people on both sides separated for that long. Without Hindu-bashing, people would have revolted for reunification by now, like East and West Germany.
                               
                              India did not need such poisoning, as they were expecting possibility of reunification from the very beginning. Popular belief was - Pakistan would not survive for long. But, it did - through mind-poisoning with Hindu-bashing.
                               
                              Jiten Roy
                               
                              --- On Mon, 4/23/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:

                              From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...>
                              Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                              To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                              Date: Monday, April 23, 2012, 9:27 PM

                               
                              Well, Tarek Fatah's thesis is dead wrong; an over simplification by just blaming one dictator. Without honestly identifying the real problem of anti-Hindu and anti-non-Muslim socio-political culture of Pakistan, no real solution could come; does not matter who Tarek Fatah may be.
                               
                              ==============================
                              From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@...>
                              To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:34 PM
                              Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                               
                              I simply made a comment on 2-minute speech by Tarek Fatah. I still believe that Tarek Fatah is generally right. Please listen to the speech and re-read my post. You have gone beyond what Fatah is emphasizing on. I do not think neither Fatah nor I will disagree with you on the communal and anti-
                            • Sukhamaya Bain
                              True, “Maharajas, Maharanis, etc. did not care about the wishes of the people.”   However, the smart ones probably did some thinking about the future of
                              Message 14 of 22 , Apr 28, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                True, “Maharajas, Maharanis, etc. did not care about the wishes of the people.”
                                 
                                However, the smart ones probably did some thinking about the future of themselves, if not of their subjects. Today’s guarantee on the status quo is no guarantee for 10, 20 or 50 years from now.
                                 
                                Looking at the leaders of Pakistan, and the way they got a new country, I would say, the non-Muslim leaders/maharajas/maharanis should have been skeptical about any guarantee from the Pakistani leaders on the status quo or future of non-Muslim leaders/maharajas/maharanis and their non-Muslim subjects. That is why I say, the Maharani of Tripura was very lucky that her dim-witted wish of 1947 did not come true.
                                 
                                See how quickly Jogen Mandal got his punishment for his stupidity. Without his support, if there were to be an eastern part of Pakistan at all, the boarder of that part of Pakistan and India would probably have been the Padma River. Yet, the so-called quid-e-millat (leader of the nation) of Pakistan, Liaquat Ali Khan, wanted him arrested when he protested the persecution of the Hindus of East Bengal (which became East Pakistan in 1956 and Bangladesh in 1971) within just two years of its creation; and he was not taking about the 1947 turbulent time of the partition. Jogen Mandal had to flee to India for shelter.

                                See how humiliating Jogen Mandal’s life was. He lost his power of the Minister of Law, Justice and Labor in Pakistan and left his Namashudra people in a sorry state back in East Bengal. He contested a parliamentary election in India, talking about the rights of the Namashudras there, and obviously lost.
                                 
                                In any case, I am somewhat hopeful on the future of Bangladesh due to some democratization, quite a bit of women empowerment, and some recent progress on the representation of religious minorities in the government.
                                 
                                Sukhamaya Bain

                                ===========================================
                                From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@...>
                                To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 8:56 AM
                                Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                 
                                Let me make this interesting thread a little bit longer. 
                                1. Roy's "Borderline religious" theory cannot be verified empirically. Both religious fundamentalists and atheists born into a particular religious group can be highly communal. 
                                2. Earlier on in this forum we had discussions about Radcliffe dissection of India. It was irrational in many cases. Hindu majority Khulna went to Pakistan. 
                                3. Maharajas, Maharanis, etc. did not care about the wishes of the people. They would join any country that would guarantee their statuesque. 

                                Sent from my iPhone
                                 
                                ======================================
                                On Apr 25, 2012, at 9:24 PM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:
                                 
                                I am confused by quite a few postings recently in Mukto-Mona, especially by Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty and Dr. Jiten Roy. Look at Dr. Roy’s comments below.
                                 
                                Here, he wrote,Religion is not the cause of communality.” However, only a few days back (April 21, 2012) in the thread “Religion & Communalism, he wrote, “Therefore, religions are at the very core of communalism.
                                 
                                In the posting below, he thanked Mr. Q. A. Rahman. Is it for Mr. Rahman’s regret that the Pakistani politicians were not smart enough to have a bigger Islamic haven in the subcontinent? Just read Mr. Rahman’s posting below a little carefully. He did not criticize the Pakistani leaders for any other faults.
                                 
                                Mr. Rahman expressed his opposition to “faith based bashing.” Well, looks like the Maharani of Tripura was as stupid as Jogen Mandal for the Namashudras and Tridib Roy for the Jumma people. Aren’t she and her people lucky? If her wish of 1947 came true, today some non-Muslims intellectuals of Tripura would be exchanging these academic talks with Muslims like Mr. Rahman, just like what Dr. Roy, Mr. Chakrabarty and I are doing. But the people of Tripura would be as sorry as the Hindus and the Jumma people of Bangladesh/Pakistan due to real “faith based bashing.”
                                 
                                I do not think a two-nation theorist can be a real challenger of “faith based bashing.”
                                 
                                Sukhamaya Bain
                                 
                                =================================================

                                From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
                                To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 7:15 PM
                                Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                 
                                Thank you. Let me say this. Communalism is a different entity from religion. Religion is not the cause of communality. It’s the victim of communality. People exploit religion to foment communality. Those who follow religion correctly are not communal. It’s the borderline religious people, many of who has propensity to become communal for their own self-interest.
                                I my youth, we used to play soccer and volleyball with the Moulavi-teacher of our Primary School; he was our buddy. Also, Moulavi-teacher of our high school was my school-hostel super. He was a very strict religious man, but - used to love me like his sons. He used to guide me like my parents. I have written articles about him in Mukto-mona, and elsewhere before.
                                I believe - the trouble is with those who are borderline religious. They do not hesitate to use religion to foment hatred to achieve their political or self interest. Truly religious people will not dare to do so. 
                                Mostly, communality has been a tool for political leaders to achieve their goals. In case of Pakistan, it was the military rulers, who found this tool to bring majority population under their control at the expense of religious minority, in this case Hindus. Those military rulers were not religious, but used to act like one in public. There are other batch of people also, who would show their ultra religiosity outside only to exploit religion. These are dangerous people.
                                This is the truth – religion can exist without communality, but communality cannot exist without religion.
                                Jiten Roy
                                =============================== --- On Tue, 4/24/12, qar <qrahman@...> wrote:

                                From: qar <qrahman@...>
                                Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Tuesday, April 24, 2012, 3:50 AM

                                 
                                While I agree with most of what you said about "Pakistani politics", I think many Indian politicians are "Play" with religion frequently. Even today Muslim bashing goes on unabated when the time is right. Frequent riots in India says a lot about the problem in "Modern India". The major difference in early India and Pakistan was India was blessed with Gandhi (Nehru, Indira, Rajiv etc) family and Pakistan did not have such seasoned leadership. In reality many Muslims also suffered for lack of good leadership in Pakistan. The "Maharani of Tripura" wanted to join the then East Pakistan and patiently waited almost two years to get some invitations (Around that time India swallowed Hyderabad and Kashmir with VERY different excuses) but our leaders back in Pakistan did not have the skills required to show statesmanship with people of Tripura. Specifically leaders of Bengali origin (Mostly Muslims) were pathetic in negotiations and lost (To newly founded India) more of "Undivided Bengal" and Pakistani Punjab gained more land as a result.  Murshidabad was a Muslim majority state but somehow it stayed with India, defying all logic!! We can certainly criticize and "Bash" criminals but harassing people for their religion is unacceptable. Those of us blessed with some education have to stand united against all faith based bashing. It does not diminish anything from any faiths but exposes ignorants and cowards among us. Shalom!
                                 
                                ====================================================
                                -----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Apr 24, 2012 8:27 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                 
                                Let me ask, once again, why some people become successful, while others aren’t? The only reason is - some people can envision the real solution/problem directly, while others run around bushes. This is the basic principle that works in every field.
                                 
                                As a result, many people can't envision the real problem Hindu-bashing in Pakistan, which, as a matter of fact, did not start with Ziaul Haque or American policy in the region. Tarek Fatah can conclude whatever he wants, but it really started from the birth of Pakistan. They have been spreading the poison of Hindu-bashing from the onset of Pakistan. This is how they could keep people on both sides separated for that long. Without Hindu-bashing, people would have revolted for reunification by now, like East and West Germany.
                                 
                                India did not need such poisoning, as they were expecting possibility of reunification from the very beginning. Popular belief was - Pakistan would not survive for long. But, it did - through mind-poisoning with Hindu-bashing.
                                 
                                Jiten Roy
                                 
                                --- On Mon, 4/23/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:

                                From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...>
                                Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                                Date: Monday, April 23, 2012, 9:27 PM

                                 
                                Well, Tarek Fatah's thesis is dead wrong; an over simplification by just blaming one dictator. Without honestly identifying the real problem of anti-Hindu and anti-non-Muslim socio-political culture of Pakistan, no real solution could come; does not matter who Tarek Fatah may be.
                                 
                                ==============================
                                From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@...>
                                To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:34 PM
                                Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                 
                                I simply made a comment on 2-minute speech by Tarek Fatah. I still believe that Tarek Fatah is generally right. Please listen to the speech and re-read my post. You have gone beyond what Fatah is emphasizing on. I do not think neither Fatah nor I will disagree with you on the communal and anti-
                              • Sukhamaya Bain
                                Responding to QAR s comment, People of Tripura has historical ties to Bengal and they are comfortable around us.   Could you elaborate on this? What is the
                                Message 15 of 22 , Apr 30, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Responding to QAR's comment, "People of Tripura has historical ties to Bengal and they are comfortable around us."
                                   
                                  Could you elaborate on this? What is the basis of their 'historical ties’ with the Muslim-majority East Bengal, over the Hindu-majority West Bengal? What have the Muslims of East Bengal done for the Hindu-majority people of Tripura for them to be more ‘comfortable around us’?
                                   
                                  In reality, the no-caste Hindus, i.e., the Namashudras, had more ties with the grass-root Muslims than any other inter-religion ties. These two communities had pretty much the same occupation, mostly agricultural labor. They both were close to the soil of Bengal. The so-called high-caste Hindus, including the zemindars, treated these two communities about the same, low class.
                                   
                                  The Muslims had no logical reason to hate the Namashudras. The Namashudras did not hate the Muslims either, nor did they consider themselves superior to the Muslims. They thought their Muslim brothers would be better than the so-called high caste Hindus. That is why, in 1947, under the leadership of Jogen Mondal, they joined Pakistan over India. And see what they got from the Muslim brothers during Pakistan and during Bangladesh!
                                   
                                  Now, let me give two pieces of advice to people like QAR. 1) My conclusions are based upon facts and logic, not upon imagination and nonsense. Trying to belittle them by calling them ‘your opinions’ is not wise. If you can, come up with additional facts and sounder logic to refute/modify the conclusions that I draw. 2) Academic discussions are necessary for human development, and for a better future; even while we realize that we can not go back in history to change things. Please do not shrug aside academic discussions.
                                   
                                  Sukhamaya Bain
                                   
                                  ===========================================
                                  From: qar <qrahman@...>
                                  To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 9:10 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                   
                                  In the posting below, he thanked Mr. Q. A. Rahman. Is it for Mr. Rahman’s regret that the Pakistani politicians were not smart enough to have a bigger Islamic haven in the subcontinent?

                                  >>>>>>> With due respect, I think you are mixing up too many issue. The "Tripura" example was given to show LACK of leadership of the than Pakistani leaders. Pakistan was a country like most other countries. It did not work very well for the citizens because of bad leaders and greedy opportunists who cared more then their own interest than country or even their religion. It is wrong to think only Hindus suffered, I feel ALL people suffered. Hindus suffered more because of twisted ideology of blaming Hindus for everything bad. Today I strongly blame India for not giving us "Fair share" of water for ALL of our people. Religion has NOTHING to do with it. But you will find most of my people looking at such vital issue through religious prism!!
                                   
                                  Aren’t she and her people lucky?
                                   
                                  I understand it is 'Your opinion" and we'll never know how it would have turned out. If we had few visionary leaders, we could have been in much better shape. I do not know where you live (BD or other country) but last 10 years Bangladesh made a lot of progress. I strongly feel it will continue. If our political leaders were little more tolerant of each others, we could have benefited more but I try to live with what I have not what I wished for.
                                   
                                  People of Tripura has historical ties to Bengal and they are comfortable around us. Now it is history and ONLY subject of academic discussion. Nothing more ...
                                   
                                  As far as communal problem is concern, it can be lessen by strengthening monitoring institutions (Judicial system, police, education etc) and visionary leaders. Those who are from non-Muslim background are aware of minority persecution but I see oppression of powerful people over powerless continues and it is blind to religion most of the time. The minority persecution is just an ugly extension of that. I bet you those who abuse Hindus (Abusing religion) are mostly ignorant about what Islam says (Or cherry picking verses to fulfill their own darn wishes). Lastly, I'll share a true story. I was taking an interview for a post. One gentleman came with a CV claiming he had a masters degree in Islamic history. I asked him to tell me the meaning of the word "Jihad" and he gave me the wrong answer!! Later he confessed, like secular education system they are given few questions to remember and he just memorized them without understanding most of it. That is why I say, authentic Islamic education can help to lessen hatred among faith communities. The positive part of this story is I also encountered many young men who impressed me with their knowledge. So I am hopeful for a better Bangladesh.
                                   
                                  Shalom!  
                                   
                                  ====================================================
                                  -----Original Message----- From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Apr 27, 2012 1:17 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                   
                                  I am confused by quite a few postings recently in Mukto-Mona, especially by Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty and Dr. Jiten Roy. Look at Dr. Roy’s comments below.
                                   
                                  Here, he wrote,Religion is not the cause of communality.” However, only a few days back (April 21, 2012) in the thread “Religion & Communalism, he wrote, “Therefore, religions are at the very core of communalism.
                                   
                                  In the posting below, he thanked Mr. Q. A. Rahman. Is it for Mr. Rahman’s regret that the Pakistani politicians were not smart enough to have a bigger Islamic haven in the subcontinent? Just read Mr. Rahman’s posting below a little carefully. He did not criticize the Pakistani leaders for any other faults.
                                   
                                  Mr. Rahman expressed his opposition to “faith based bashing.” Well, looks like the Maharani of Tripura was as stupid as Jogen Mandal for the Namashudras and Tridib Roy for the Jumma people. Aren’t she and her people lucky? If her wish of 1947 came true, today some non-Muslims intellectuals of Tripura would be exchanging these academic talks with Muslims like Mr. Rahman, just like what Dr. Roy, Mr. Chakrabarty and I are doing. But the people of Tripura would be as sorry as the Hindus and the Jumma people of Bangladesh/Pakistan due to real “faith based bashing.”
                                   
                                  I do not think a two-nation theorist can be a real challenger of “faith based bashing.”
                                   
                                  Sukhamaya Bain
                                   
                                  =================================================

                                  From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
                                  To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 7:15 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                   
                                  Thank you. Let me say this. Communalism is a different entity from religion. Religion is not the cause of communality. It’s the victim of communality. People exploit religion to foment communality. Those who follow religion correctly are not communal. It’s the borderline religious people, many of who has propensity to become communal for their own self-interest.
                                  I my youth, we used to play soccer and volleyball with the Moulavi-teacher of our Primary School; he was our buddy. Also, Moulavi-teacher of our high school was my school-hostel super. He was a very strict religious man, but - used to love me like his sons. He used to guide me like my parents. I have written articles about him in Mukto-mona, and elsewhere before.
                                  I believe - the trouble is with those who are borderline religious. They do not hesitate to use religion to foment hatred to achieve their political or self interest. Truly religious people will not dare to do so. 
                                  Mostly, communality has been a tool for political leaders to achieve their goals. In case of Pakistan, it was the military rulers, who found this tool to bring majority population under their control at the expense of religious minority, in this case Hindus. Those military rulers were not religious, but used to act like one in public. There are other batch of people also, who would show their ultra religiosity outside only to exploit religion. These are dangerous people.
                                  This is the truth – religion can exist without communality, but communality cannot exist without religion.
                                  Jiten Roy
                                  =============================== --- On Tue, 4/24/12, qar <qrahman@...> wrote:

                                  From: qar <qrahman@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                  To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Tuesday, April 24, 2012, 3:50 AM

                                   
                                  While I agree with most of what you said about "Pakistani politics", I think many Indian politicians are "Play" with religion frequently. Even today Muslim bashing goes on unabated when the time is right. Frequent riots in India says a lot about the problem in "Modern India". The major difference in early India and Pakistan was India was blessed with Gandhi (Nehru, Indira, Rajiv etc) family and Pakistan did not have such seasoned leadership. In reality many Muslims also suffered for lack of good leadership in Pakistan. The "Maharani of Tripura" wanted to join the then East Pakistan and patiently waited almost two years to get some invitations (Around that time India swallowed Hyderabad and Kashmir with VERY different excuses) but our leaders back in Pakistan did not have the skills required to show statesmanship with people of Tripura. Specifically leaders of Bengali origin (Mostly Muslims) were pathetic in negotiations and lost (To newly founded India) more of "Undivided Bengal" and Pakistani Punjab gained more land as a result.  Murshidabad was a Muslim majority state but somehow it stayed with India, defying all logic!! We can certainly criticize and "Bash" criminals but harassing people for their religion is unacceptable. Those of us blessed with some education have to stand united against all faith based bashing. It does not diminish anything from any faiths but exposes ignorants and cowards among us. Shalom!
                                   
                                  ====================================================
                                  -----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Apr 24, 2012 8:27 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                   
                                  Let me ask, once again, why some people become successful, while others aren’t? The only reason is - some people can envision the real solution/problem directly, while others run around bushes. This is the basic principle that works in every field.
                                   
                                  As a result, many people can't envision the real problem Hindu-bashing in Pakistan, which, as a matter of fact, did not start with Ziaul Haque or American policy in the region. Tarek Fatah can conclude whatever he wants, but it really started from the birth of Pakistan. They have been spreading the poison of Hindu-bashing from the onset of Pakistan. This is how they could keep people on both sides separated for that long. Without Hindu-bashing, people would have revolted for reunification by now, like East and West Germany.
                                   
                                  India did not need such poisoning, as they were expecting possibility of reunification from the very beginning. Popular belief was - Pakistan would not survive for long. But, it did - through mind-poisoning with Hindu-bashing.
                                   
                                  Jiten Roy
                                   
                                  ===================================
                                  --- On Mon, 4/23/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:

                                  From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                  To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Date: Monday, April 23, 2012, 9:27 PM

                                   
                                  Well, Tarek Fatah's thesis is dead wrong; an over simplification by just blaming one dictator. Without honestly identifying the real problem of anti-Hindu and anti-non-Muslim socio-political culture of Pakistan, no real solution could come; does not matter who Tarek Fatah may be.
                                   
                                  ==============================
                                  From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@...>
                                  To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:34 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                   
                                  I simply made a comment on 2-minute speech by Tarek Fatah. I still believe that Tarek Fatah is generally right. Please listen to the speech and re-read my post. You have gone beyond what Fatah is emphasizing on. I do not think neither Fatah nor I will disagree with you on the communal and anti-Indian politics of the Pakistani rulers. But using text books to antagonize the innocent minds against Hindus started with Ziaul Huque--that is Fatah's thesis. Do not overreact without understanding the point.  Sent from my iPhone
                                   
                                  =============================
                                  On Apr 22, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:
                                   
                                  As I wrote before, blaming America is an easy, cheap and irresponsible way of shifting the culpability from where it really belongs; in this case, Pakistan itself. Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty’s assessment below is seriously flawed.
                                   
                                  In a school textbook in the 1960s, in the then East Pakistan, there was a story where a cow wanted to be sacrificed for Allah in order to go to heaven. In my tender mind, I wondered, how hateful, cow is like a god to the Hindus, yet this is in the textbook that all children have to read! In another history narrative in a textbook, occupation and plundering of the Somnath Temple by Muslim invaders were described as Somnath Bijoy (winning of Somnath). Do these sound like American foreign policy in Afghanistan?
                                   
                                  I would like to ask people like Mr. Chakrabarty to search their memory for facts like the following:
                                   
                                  1)       The resignation of Jogen Mandal in 1950 from the position of Minister of Law, Justice and Labor in Liaquat Ali Khan’s cabinet due to atrocities on Hindus in East Bengal. The government of Pakistan was hostile to religious minorities, not eager to uphold their rights – forcing Mr. Mandal to take a permanent shelter in India.
                                  2)       The colossal scale atrocities on Hindus in Pakistan in 1965, during a war with India.
                                  3)       The regular military of Pakistan killing Hindus, irrespective of political affiliations, in 1971.
                                   
                                  Ayub Khan was the dictator of Pakistan from 1958 to 1969. It would be foolish to suggest that he had nothing to do with the 1965 atrocities, or with the mindset of the Pakistani military that methodically killed innocent and non-violent Hindus in 1971. It would be absurd to think that the character of Zia-ul-Haq sprouted out all of a sudden like a weed from a civilized/innocent Pakistan.
                                   
                                  FYI: Jogen Mandal’s Resignation Letter, if the hyperlink above does not work: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Resignation_letter_of_Jogendra_Nath_Mandal
                                   
                                  Mr. Chakrabarty really needs to do some reading, recalling his memory, and thinking, before making the kind of comments that he made below. If we can not speak truthfully and honestly, let us keep silent, let us just enjoy our life away from talking in the public forums.
                                   
                                  Sukhamaya Bain
                                   
                                  =======================================================
                                • qar
                                  Could you elaborate on this? What is the basis of their historical ties’ with the Muslim-majority East Bengal, over the Hindu-majority West Bengal? What
                                  Message 16 of 22 , May 2 8:24 AM
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Could you elaborate on this? What is the basis of their 'historical ties’ with the Muslim-majority East Bengal, over the Hindu-majority West Bengal? What have the Muslims of East Bengal done for the Hindu-majority people of Tripura for them to be more ‘comfortable around us’?


                                    >>>>>>>>>> Again, if you make your decisions EXCLUSIVELY based on religion, you are correct. I on the other hand think religion is important but we have other dimensions/aspects of our lives. Like language, culture, history etc.

                                    Just for the record, the TRIPURA  example was used to make a point about LACK of leadership of the then Pakistan but you are dragging religion into it, which was NOT the point of the Initial post. Not only Tripura we have ties with people of west Bengal as well. We are tied with history,language, culture etc. These are our common grounds. Historically people of Tripura used Comilla as their gateway to India. Last year I met a gentleman from Tripura who shown a lot of affection towards Bangladesh, albeit he is from Hindu tradition. So it is MY (Personal opinion) observation that, despite differences in faith background we are comfortable with people of Tripiura and west Bengal. I have visited west bengal couple of times and have good memories of it.


                                    Now, let me give two pieces of advice to people like QAR. 1) My conclusions are based upon facts and logic, not upon imagination and nonsense. Trying to belittle them by calling them ‘your opinions’ is not wise. If you can, come up with additional facts and sounder logic to refute/modify the conclusions that I draw. 2) Academic discussions are necessary for human development, and for a better future; even while we realize that we can not go back in history to change things. Please do not shrug aside academic discussions.
                                     
                                    >>>>>>>>>> Your posts reflects your opinions and in free communities people can respectfully disagree with your findings. That does NOT mean I have "Belittle" them. I was being courteous but you misunderstood me!!

                                    I have given 3-4 good reasons behind our good ties with people of west bengal and Tripura. I did not talk about West Bengal initially (You did) but it applies to people of that state as well. It is my "Personal opinion" that despite our faith differences, we can get along fine with those people. My real life interactions solidified these beliefs.

                                    There are good people and bad people in every community. I am well aware there are SOME Hindu people who would have hard time accepting me just because of my faith (I learnt that from my own life) and that is fine. But majority of population are peace loving like majority Muslim population. I get along fine with most of them. I decided not to let ignorant people dictate my life choices as much as possible. While I am keenly aware of our "Less than perfect" history, I am also aware good relations, friendship and mutual sacrifices do not make head line news but they exist.

                                    I feel our Maker made us as peace loving people but circumstances leads some of us to acts up. So I seek common grounds and try to get along as much as possible. If someone do not want to get along, it is their own damn problem, not mine.

                                    Shalom! 

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...>
                                    To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Tue, May 1, 2012 5:10 am
                                    Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"

                                     
                                    Responding to QAR's comment, "People of Tripura has historical ties to Bengal and they are comfortable around us."
                                     
                                    Could you elaborate on this? What is the basis of their 'historical ties’ with the Muslim-majority East Bengal, over the Hindu-majority West Bengal? What have the Muslims of East Bengal done for the Hindu-majority people of Tripura for them to be more ‘comfortable around us’?
                                     
                                    In reality, the no-caste Hindus, i.e., the Namashudras, had more ties with the grass-root Muslims than any other inter-religion ties. These two communities had pretty much the same occupation, mostly agricultural labor. They both were close to the soil of Bengal. The so-called high-caste Hindus, including the zemindars, treated these two communities about the same, low class.
                                     
                                    The Muslims had no logical reason to hate the Namashudras. The Namashudras did not hate the Muslims either, nor did they consider themselves superior to the Muslims. They thought their Muslim brothers would be better than the so-called high caste Hindus. That is why, in 1947, under the leadership of Jogen Mondal, they joined Pakistan over India. And see what they got from the Muslim brothers during Pakistan and during Bangladesh!
                                     
                                    Now, let me give two pieces of advice to people like QAR. 1) My conclusions are based upon facts and logic, not upon imagination and nonsense. Trying to belittle them by calling them ‘your opinions’ is not wise. If you can, come up with additional facts and sounder logic to refute/modify the conclusions that I draw. 2) Academic discussions are necessary for human development, and for a better future; even while we realize that we can not go back in history to change things. Please do not shrug aside academic discussions.
                                     
                                    Sukhamaya Bain
                                     
                                    ===========================================
                                    From: qar <qrahman@...>
                                    To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 9:10 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                     
                                    In the posting below, he thanked Mr. Q. A. Rahman. Is it for Mr. Rahman’s regret that the Pakistani politicians were not smart enough to have a bigger Islamic haven in the subcontinent?

                                    >>>>>>> With due respect, I think you are mixing up too many issue. The "Tripura" example was given to show LACK of leadership of the than Pakistani leaders. Pakistan was a country like most other countries. It did not work very well for the citizens because of bad leaders and greedy opportunists who cared more then their own interest than country or even their religion. It is wrong to think only Hindus suffered, I feel ALL people suffered. Hindus suffered more because of twisted ideology of blaming Hindus for everything bad. Today I strongly blame India for not giving us "Fair share" of water for ALL of our people. Religion has NOTHING to do with it. But you will find most of my people looking at such vital issue through religious prism!!
                                     
                                    Aren’t she and her people lucky?
                                     
                                    I understand it is 'Your opinion" and we'll never know how it would have turned out. If we had few visionary leaders, we could have been in much better shape. I do not know where you live (BD or other country) but last 10 years Bangladesh made a lot of progress. I strongly feel it will continue. If our political leaders were little more tolerant of each others, we could have benefited more but I try to live with what I have not what I wished for.
                                     
                                    People of Tripura has historical ties to Bengal and they are comfortable around us. Now it is history and ONLY subject of academic discussion. Nothing more ...
                                     
                                    As far as communal problem is concern, it can be lessen by strengthening monitoring institutions (Judicial system, police, education etc) and visionary leaders. Those who are from non-Muslim background are aware of minority persecution but I see oppression of powerful people over powerless continues and it is blind to religion most of the time. The minority persecution is just an ugly extension of that. I bet you those who abuse Hindus (Abusing religion) are mostly ignorant about what Islam says (Or cherry picking verses to fulfill their own darn wishes). Lastly, I'll share a true story. I was taking an interview for a post. One gentleman came with a CV claiming he had a masters degree in Islamic history. I asked him to tell me the meaning of the word "Jihad" and he gave me the wrong answer!! Later he confessed, like secular education system they are given few questions to remember and he just memorized them without understanding most of it. That is why I say, authentic Islamic education can help to lessen hatred among faith communities. The positive part of this story is I also encountered many young men who impressed me with their knowledge. So I am hopeful for a better Bangladesh.
                                     
                                    Shalom!  
                                     
                                    ====================================================
                                    -----Original Message----- From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Apr 27, 2012 1:17 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                     
                                    I am confused by quite a few postings recently in Mukto-Mona, especially by Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty and Dr. Jiten Roy. Look at Dr. Roy’s comments below.
                                     
                                    Here, he wrote,Religion is not the cause of communality.” However, only a few days back (April 21, 2012) in the thread “Religion & Communalism, he wrote, “Therefore, religions are at the very core of communalism.
                                     
                                    In the posting below, he thanked Mr. Q. A. Rahman. Is it for Mr. Rahman’s regret that the Pakistani politicians were not smart enough to have a bigger Islamic haven in the subcontinent? Just read Mr. Rahman’s posting below a little carefully. He did not criticize the Pakistani leaders for any other faults.
                                     
                                    Mr. Rahman expressed his opposition to “faith based bashing.” Well, looks like the Maharani of Tripura was as stupid as Jogen Mandal for the Namashudras and Tridib Roy for the Jumma people. Aren’t she and her people lucky? If her wish of 1947 came true, today some non-Muslims intellectuals of Tripura would be exchanging these academic talks with Muslims like Mr. Rahman, just like what Dr. Roy, Mr. Chakrabarty and I are doing. But the people of Tripura would be as sorry as the Hindus and the Jumma people of Bangladesh/Pakistan due to real “faith based bashing.”
                                     
                                    I do not think a two-nation theorist can be a real challenger of “faith based bashing.”
                                     
                                    Sukhamaya Bain
                                     
                                    =================================================

                                    From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
                                    To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 7:15 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                     
                                    Thank you. Let me say this. Communalism is a different entity from religion. Religion is not the cause of communality. It’s the victim of communality. People exploit religion to foment communality. Those who follow religion correctly are not communal. It’s the borderline religious people, many of who has propensity to become communal for their own self-interest.
                                    I my youth, we used to play soccer and volleyball with the Moulavi-teacher of our Primary School; he was our buddy. Also, Moulavi-teacher of our high school was my school-hostel super. He was a very strict religious man, but - used to love me like his sons. He used to guide me like my parents. I have written articles about him in Mukto-mona, and elsewhere before.
                                    I believe - the trouble is with those who are borderline religious. They do not hesitate to use religion to foment hatred to achieve their political or self interest. Truly religious people will not dare to do so. 
                                    Mostly, communality has been a tool for political leaders to achieve their goals. In case of Pakistan, it was the military rulers, who found this tool to bring majority population under their control at the expense of religious minority, in this case Hindus. Those military rulers were not religious, but used to act like one in public. There are other batch of people also, who would show their ultra religiosity outside only to exploit religion. These are dangerous people.
                                    This is the truth – religion can exist without communality, but communality cannot exist without religion.
                                    Jiten Roy
                                    =============================== --- On Tue, 4/24/12, qar <qrahman@...> wrote:

                                    From: qar <qrahman@...>
                                    Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                    To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Tuesday, April 24, 2012, 3:50 AM

                                     
                                    While I agree with most of what you said about "Pakistani politics", I think many Indian politicians are "Play" with religion frequently. Even today Muslim bashing goes on unabated when the time is right. Frequent riots in India says a lot about the problem in "Modern India". The major difference in early India and Pakistan was India was blessed with Gandhi (Nehru, Indira, Rajiv etc) family and Pakistan did not have such seasoned leadership. In reality many Muslims also suffered for lack of good leadership in Pakistan. The "Maharani of Tripura" wanted to join the then East Pakistan and patiently waited almost two years to get some invitations (Around that time India swallowed Hyderabad and Kashmir with VERY different excuses) but our leaders back in Pakistan did not have the skills required to show statesmanship with people of Tripura. Specifically leaders of Bengali origin (Mostly Muslims) were pathetic in negotiations and lost (To newly founded India) more of "Undivided Bengal" and Pakistani Punjab gained more land as a result.  Murshidabad was a Muslim majority state but somehow it stayed with India, defying all logic!! We can certainly criticize and "Bash" criminals but harassing people for their religion is unacceptable. Those of us blessed with some education have to stand united against all faith based bashing. It does not diminish anything from any faiths but exposes ignorants and cowards among us. Shalom!
                                     
                                    ====================================================
                                    -----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Apr 24, 2012 8:27 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                     
                                    Let me ask, once again, why some people become successful, while others aren’t? The only reason is - some people can envision the real solution/problem directly, while others run around bushes. This is the basic principle that works in every field.
                                     
                                    As a result, many people can't envision the real problem Hindu-bashing in Pakistan, which, as a matter of fact, did not start with Ziaul Haque or American policy in the region. Tarek Fatah can conclude whatever he wants, but it really started from the birth of Pakistan. They have been spreading the poison of Hindu-bashing from the onset of Pakistan. This is how they could keep people on both sides separated for that long. Without Hindu-bashing, people would have revolted for reunification by now, like East and West Germany.
                                     
                                    India did not need such poisoning, as they were expecting possibility of reunification from the very beginning. Popular belief was - Pakistan would not survive for long. But, it did - through mind-poisoning with Hindu-bashing.
                                     
                                    Jiten Roy
                                     
                                    ===================================
                                    --- On Mon, 4/23/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:

                                    From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...>
                                    Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                    To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Date: Monday, April 23, 2012, 9:27 PM

                                     
                                    Well, Tarek Fatah's thesis is dead wrong; an over simplification by just blaming one dictator. Without honestly identifying the real problem of anti-Hindu and anti-non-Muslim socio-political culture of Pakistan, no real solution could come; does not matter who Tarek Fatah may be.
                                     
                                    ==============================
                                    From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@...>
                                    To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:34 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                     
                                    I simply made a comment on 2-minute speech by Tarek Fatah. I still believe that Tarek Fatah is generally right. Please listen to the speech and re-read my post. You have gone beyond what Fatah is emphasizing on. I do not think neither Fatah nor I will disagree with you on the communal and anti-Indian politics of the Pakistani rulers. But using text books to antagonize the innocent minds against Hindus started with Ziaul Huque--that is Fatah's thesis. Do not overreact without understanding the point.  Sent from my iPhone
                                     
                                    =============================
                                    On Apr 22, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:
                                     
                                    As I wrote before, blaming America is an easy, cheap and irresponsible way of shifting the culpability from where it really belongs; in this case, Pakistan itself. Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty’s assessment below is seriously flawed.
                                     
                                    In a school textbook in the 1960s, in the then East Pakistan, there was a story where a cow wanted to be sacrificed for Allah in order to go to heaven. In my tender mind, I wondered, how hateful, cow is like a god to the Hindus, yet this is in the textbook that all children have to read! In another history narrative in a textbook, occupation and plundering of the Somnath Temple by Muslim invaders were described as Somnath Bijoy (winning of Somnath). Do these sound like American foreign policy in Afghanistan?
                                     
                                    I would like to ask people like Mr. Chakrabarty to search their memory for facts like the following:
                                     
                                    1)       The resignation of Jogen Mandal in 1950 from the position of Minister of Law, Justice and Labor in Liaquat Ali Khan’s cabinet due to atrocities on Hindus in East Bengal. The government of Pakistan was hostile to religious minorities, not eager to uphold their rights – forcing Mr. Mandal to take a permanent shelter in India.
                                    2)       The colossal scale atrocities on Hindus in Pakistan in 1965, during a war with India.
                                    3)       The regular military of Pakistan killing Hindus, irrespective of political affiliations, in 1971.
                                     
                                    Ayub Khan was the dictator of Pakistan from 1958 to 1969. It would be foolish to suggest that he had nothing to do with the 1965 atrocities, or with the mindset of the Pakistani military that methodically killed innocent and non-violent Hindus in 1971. It would be absurd to think that the character of Zia-ul-Haq sprouted out all of a sudden like a weed from a civilized/innocent Pakistan.
                                     
                                    FYI: Jogen Mandal’s Resignation Letter, if the hyperlink above does not work: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Resignation_letter_of_Jogendra_Nath_Mandal
                                     
                                    Mr. Chakrabarty really needs to do some reading, recalling his memory, and thinking, before making the kind of comments that he made below. If we can not speak truthfully and honestly, let us keep silent, let us just enjoy our life away from talking in the public forums.
                                     
                                    Sukhamaya Bain
                                     
                                    =======================================================
                                  • subimal chakrabarty
                                    Some facts: 1. The notorious Radcliffe Boundary Award divided the Shikh community almost into two equal groups. The Award was irrational in many other areas
                                    Message 17 of 22 , May 2 4:29 PM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Some facts:
                                      1. The notorious Radcliffe Boundary Award divided the Shikh community almost into two equal groups. The Award was irrational in many other areas also including Bengal.
                                      2. 500,000 were killed in communal riots.
                                      3. Involunary exchange of population caused displacement of 5.5 million each way across the new India-Pakistan border in the Punjab. In addition 400,000 Hindus left Sind  and over a million moved from East Pakistan to India. According to one recent NPR reporting, 95:5 Hindu-Muslim population ratio in Karachi was completely reversed in few years.
                                      4. There were 362 states (major ones include Kashmir, Hyderabad, and Junagadh) which did not fall under the jurisdiction of the Radcliffe Boundary Award. British advised them to join either of the two newly created states---India and Pakistan. Both carrot (personal privileges and pensions free of income tax) and stick were used to oblige the princely states to take a decision. All except Kashmir (a mixed state although with majority Muslim population overall and the Hindu King), Hyderabad (Muslim ruler with 85% hindu population), and Junagadh (with Muslim Nawab with Hindu majority) failed to take a decision before independence. The Nawab of Junagadh opted for Pakistan. In a few weeks the Indian troops occupied the state. The Nizam of Hyderabad was stubborn and allowed an extremist organization called the Razakars to seize control. Indian govt. got the excuse and made it a part of India. The Hindu ruler of Kashmir was playing, but decided to join India as soon as a Pathan irregular force attacked Kashmir. With pressure from Pakistan Nehru agreed to a plebiscite which has never been materialized. 
                                      5. I do not know when and under what conditions the Maharani of Tripura was negotiatiating with Pakistan for a possible accession to that country. Tripura is a land-locked country. I do not know what were her considerations behind joining Pakistan instead of India. That seems to be really an interesting case. As far as I know culturally the King of Tripura was more connected to Kolkata.       

                                      From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...>
                                      To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 5:00 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                       
                                      Responding to QAR's comment, "People of Tripura has historical ties to Bengal and they are comfortable around us."
                                       
                                      Could you elaborate on this? What is the basis of their 'historical ties’ with the Muslim-majority East Bengal, over the Hindu-majority West Bengal? What have the Muslims of East Bengal done for the Hindu-majority people of Tripura for them to be more ‘comfortable around us’?
                                       
                                      In reality, the no-caste Hindus, i.e., the Namashudras, had more ties with the grass-root Muslims than any other inter-religion ties. These two communities had pretty much the same occupation, mostly agricultural labor. They both were close to the soil of Bengal. The so-called high-caste Hindus, including the zemindars, treated these two communities about the same, low class.
                                       
                                      The Muslims had no logical reason to hate the Namashudras. The Namashudras did not hate the Muslims either, nor did they consider themselves superior to the Muslims. They thought their Muslim brothers would be better than the so-called high caste Hindus. That is why, in 1947, under the leadership of Jogen Mondal, they joined Pakistan over India. And see what they got from the Muslim brothers during Pakistan and during Bangladesh!
                                       
                                      Now, let me give two pieces of advice to people like QAR. 1) My conclusions are based upon facts and logic, not upon imagination and nonsense. Trying to belittle them by calling them ‘your opinions’ is not wise. If you can, come up with additional facts and sounder logic to refute/modify the conclusions that I draw. 2) Academic discussions are necessary for human development, and for a better future; even while we realize that we can not go back in history to change things. Please do not shrug aside academic discussions.
                                       
                                      Sukhamaya Bain
                                       
                                      ===========================================
                                      From: qar <qrahman@...>
                                      To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 9:10 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                       
                                      In the posting below, he thanked Mr. Q. A. Rahman. Is it for Mr. Rahman’s regret that the Pakistani politicians were not smart enough to have a bigger Islamic haven in the subcontinent?

                                      >>>>>>> With due respect, I think you are mixing up too many issue. The "Tripura" example was given to show LACK of leadership of the than Pakistani leaders. Pakistan was a country like most other countries. It did not work very well for the citizens because of bad leaders and greedy opportunists who cared more then their own interest than country or even their religion. It is wrong to think only Hindus suffered, I feel ALL people suffered. Hindus suffered more because of twisted ideology of blaming Hindus for everything bad. Today I strongly blame India for not giving us "Fair share" of water for ALL of our people. Religion has NOTHING to do with it. But you will find most of my people looking at such vital issue through religious prism!!
                                       
                                      Aren’t she and her people lucky?
                                       
                                      I understand it is 'Your opinion" and we'll never know how it would have turned out. If we had few visionary leaders, we could have been in much better shape. I do not know where you live (BD or other country) but last 10 years Bangladesh made a lot of progress. I strongly feel it will continue. If our political leaders were little more tolerant of each others, we could have benefited more but I try to live with what I have not what I wished for.
                                       
                                      People of Tripura has historical ties to Bengal and they are comfortable around us. Now it is history and ONLY subject of academic discussion. Nothing more ...
                                       
                                      As far as communal problem is concern, it can be lessen by strengthening monitoring institutions (Judicial system, police, education etc) and visionary leaders. Those who are from non-Muslim background are aware of minority persecution but I see oppression of powerful people over powerless continues and it is blind to religion most of the time. The minority persecution is just an ugly extension of that. I bet you those who abuse Hindus (Abusing religion) are mostly ignorant about what Islam says (Or cherry picking verses to fulfill their own darn wishes). Lastly, I'll share a true story. I was taking an interview for a post. One gentleman came with a CV claiming he had a masters degree in Islamic history. I asked him to tell me the meaning of the word "Jihad" and he gave me the wrong answer!! Later he confessed, like secular education system they are given few questions to remember and he just memorized them without understanding most of it. That is why I say, authentic Islamic education can help to lessen hatred among faith communities. The positive part of this story is I also encountered many young men who impressed me with their knowledge. So I am hopeful for a better Bangladesh.
                                       
                                      Shalom!  
                                       
                                      ====================================================
                                      -----Original Message----- From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Apr 27, 2012 1:17 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                       
                                      I am confused by quite a few postings recently in Mukto-Mona, especially by Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty and Dr. Jiten Roy. Look at Dr. Roy’s comments below.
                                       
                                      Here, he wrote,Religion is not the cause of communality.” However, only a few days back (April 21, 2012) in the thread “Religion & Communalism, he wrote, “Therefore, religions are at the very core of communalism.
                                       
                                      In the posting below, he thanked Mr. Q. A. Rahman. Is it for Mr. Rahman’s regret that the Pakistani politicians were not smart enough to have a bigger Islamic haven in the subcontinent? Just read Mr. Rahman’s posting below a little carefully. He did not criticize the Pakistani leaders for any other faults.
                                       
                                      Mr. Rahman expressed his opposition to “faith based bashing.” Well, looks like the Maharani of Tripura was as stupid as Jogen Mandal for the Namashudras and Tridib Roy for the Jumma people. Aren’t she and her people lucky? If her wish of 1947 came true, today some non-Muslims intellectuals of Tripura would be exchanging these academic talks with Muslims like Mr. Rahman, just like what Dr. Roy, Mr. Chakrabarty and I are doing. But the people of Tripura would be as sorry as the Hindus and the Jumma people of Bangladesh/Pakistan due to real “faith based bashing.”
                                       
                                      I do not think a two-nation theorist can be a real challenger of “faith based bashing.”
                                       
                                      Sukhamaya Bain
                                       
                                      =================================================

                                      From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
                                      To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 7:15 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                       
                                      Thank you. Let me say this. Communalism is a different entity from religion. Religion is not the cause of communality. It’s the victim of communality. People exploit religion to foment communality. Those who follow religion correctly are not communal. It’s the borderline religious people, many of who has propensity to become communal for their own self-interest.
                                      I my youth, we used to play soccer and volleyball with the Moulavi-teacher of our Primary School; he was our buddy. Also, Moulavi-teacher of our high school was my school-hostel super. He was a very strict religious man, but - used to love me like his sons. He used to guide me like my parents. I have written articles about him in Mukto-mona, and elsewhere before.
                                      I believe - the trouble is with those who are borderline religious. They do not hesitate to use religion to foment hatred to achieve their political or self interest. Truly religious people will not dare to do so. 
                                      Mostly, communality has been a tool for political leaders to achieve their goals. In case of Pakistan, it was the military rulers, who found this tool to bring majority population under their control at the expense of religious minority, in this case Hindus. Those military rulers were not religious, but used to act like one in public. There are other batch of people also, who would show their ultra religiosity outside only to exploit religion. These are dangerous people.
                                      This is the truth – religion can exist without communality, but communality cannot exist without religion.
                                      Jiten Roy
                                      =============================== --- On Tue, 4/24/12, qar <qrahman@...> wrote:

                                      From: qar <qrahman@...>
                                      Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                      To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Tuesday, April 24, 2012, 3:50 AM

                                       
                                      While I agree with most of what you said about "Pakistani politics", I think many Indian politicians are "Play" with religion frequently. Even today Muslim bashing goes on unabated when the time is right. Frequent riots in India says a lot about the problem in "Modern India". The major difference in early India and Pakistan was India was blessed with Gandhi (Nehru, Indira, Rajiv etc) family and Pakistan did not have such seasoned leadership. In reality many Muslims also suffered for lack of good leadership in Pakistan. The "Maharani of Tripura" wanted to join the then East Pakistan and patiently waited almost two years to get some invitations (Around that time India swallowed Hyderabad and Kashmir with VERY different excuses) but our leaders back in Pakistan did not have the skills required to show statesmanship with people of Tripura. Specifically leaders of Bengali origin (Mostly Muslims) were pathetic in negotiations and lost (To newly founded India) more of "Undivided Bengal" and Pakistani Punjab gained more land as a result.  Murshidabad was a Muslim majority state but somehow it stayed with India, defying all logic!! We can certainly criticize and "Bash" criminals but harassing people for their religion is unacceptable. Those of us blessed with some education have to stand united against all faith based bashing. It does not diminish anything from any faiths but exposes ignorants and cowards among us. Shalom!
                                       
                                      ====================================================
                                      -----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Apr 24, 2012 8:27 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                       
                                      Let me ask, once again, why some people become successful, while others aren’t? The only reason is - some people can envision the real solution/problem directly, while others run around bushes. This is the basic principle that works in every field.
                                       
                                      As a result, many people can't envision the real problem Hindu-bashing in Pakistan, which, as a matter of fact, did not start with Ziaul Haque or American policy in the region. Tarek Fatah can conclude whatever he wants, but it really started from the birth of Pakistan. They have been spreading the poison of Hindu-bashing from the onset of Pakistan. This is how they could keep people on both sides separated for that long. Without Hindu-bashing, people would have revolted for reunification by now, like East and West Germany.
                                       
                                      India did not need such poisoning, as they were expecting possibility of reunification from the very beginning. Popular belief was - Pakistan would not survive for long. But, it did - through mind-poisoning with Hindu-bashing.
                                       
                                      Jiten Roy
                                       
                                      ===================================
                                      --- On Mon, 4/23/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:

                                      From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...>
                                      Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                      To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Date: Monday, April 23, 2012, 9:27 PM

                                       
                                      Well, Tarek Fatah's thesis is dead wrong; an over simplification by just blaming one dictator. Without honestly identifying the real problem of anti-Hindu and anti-non-Muslim socio-political culture of Pakistan, no real solution could come; does not matter who Tarek Fatah may be.
                                       
                                      ==============================
                                      From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@...>
                                      To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:34 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                       
                                      I simply made a comment on 2-minute speech by Tarek Fatah. I still believe that Tarek Fatah is generally right. Please listen to the speech and re-read my post. You have gone beyond what Fatah is emphasizing on. I do not think neither Fatah nor I will disagree with you on the communal and anti-Indian politics of the Pakistani rulers. But using text books to antagonize the innocent minds against Hindus started with Ziaul Huque--that is Fatah's thesis. Do not overreact without understanding the point.  Sent from my iPhone
                                       
                                      =============================
                                      On Apr 22, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:
                                       
                                      As I wrote before, blaming America is an easy, cheap and irresponsible way of shifting the culpability from where it really belongs; in this case, Pakistan itself. Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty’s assessment below is seriously flawed.
                                       
                                      In a school textbook in the 1960s, in the then East Pakistan, there was a story where a cow wanted to be sacrificed for Allah in order to go to heaven. In my tender mind, I wondered, how hateful, cow is like a god to the Hindus, yet this is in the textbook that all children have to read! In another history narrative in a textbook, occupation and plundering of the Somnath Temple by Muslim invaders were described as Somnath Bijoy (winning of Somnath). Do these sound like American foreign policy in Afghanistan?
                                       
                                      I would like to ask people like Mr. Chakrabarty to search their memory for facts like the following:
                                       
                                      1)       The resignation of Jogen Mandal in 1950 from the position of Minister of Law, Justice and Labor in Liaquat Ali Khan’s cabinet due to atrocities on Hindus in East Bengal. The government of Pakistan was hostile to religious minorities, not eager to uphold their rights – forcing Mr. Mandal to take a permanent shelter in India.
                                      2)       The colossal scale atrocities on Hindus in Pakistan in 1965, during a war with India.
                                      3)       The regular military of Pakistan killing Hindus, irrespective of political affiliations, in 1971.
                                       
                                      Ayub Khan was the dictator of Pakistan from 1958 to 1969. It would be foolish to suggest that he had nothing to do with the 1965 atrocities, or with the mindset of the Pakistani military that methodically killed innocent and non-violent Hindus in 1971. It would be absurd to think that the character of Zia-ul-Haq sprouted out all of a sudden like a weed from a civilized/innocent Pakistan.
                                       
                                      FYI: Jogen Mandal’s Resignation Letter, if the hyperlink above does not work: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Resignation_letter_of_Jogendra_Nath_Mandal
                                       
                                      Mr. Chakrabarty really needs to do some reading, recalling his memory, and thinking, before making the kind of comments that he made below. If we can not speak truthfully and honestly, let us keep silent, let us just enjoy our life away from talking in the public forums.
                                       
                                      Sukhamaya Bain
                                       
                                      =======================================================
                                    • Sukhamaya Bain
                                      The bottom line really is that the Hindu-Muslim two-nation theory for the creation of Pakistan was probably the second biggest curse in the history of the
                                      Message 18 of 22 , May 4 5:18 PM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        The bottom line really is that the Hindu-Muslim two-nation theory for the creation of Pakistan was probably the second biggest curse in the history of the Indian subcontinent; the first being the Hindu caste system. (I call the Hindu caste system the number one curse, because it has caused the most suffering of humanities in the subcontinent over a long period of time, even though it did not cause any big scale killing of people within any short period of time.)
                                         
                                        Now, talking about the 1947 partition to create Pakistan in the subcontinent, just imagine Hyderabad and Junagadh as two other parts of Pakistan, land-locked by India, on top of the eastern and western parts being separated by more than a thousand miles of India. No sensible leadership could ask for such an arrangement of a country at that time.
                                         
                                        Looking at Pakistan over the last 65 years, I would say, today no sensible person, Hindu or Muslim, would regret the fact that Hyderabad, Junagadh, Kashmir or Tripura was not part of Pakistan in 1947 or thereafter. Even the innocent Kashmiri Muslims who got wrongful treatments from the Indian security personnel would not want Pakistan; they would probably want an independent Kashmir.
                                         
                                        While talking about the creation of Pakistan, we have to look at its after-effect that has been going on over the last 65 years. We can blame the British divide-and-conquer policy for the partition. However, we can not blame that for the reversal of the 95:5 Hindu-Muslim population ratio in Karachi within a few years after 1947, as Mr. Chakrabarty has noted below.
                                         
                                        Creation of Pakistan was horrific; worse was the purpose of it, i.e., to do what Pakistan has been doing to the non-Muslims of that land over the last 65 years. It is a shame that too many intellectuals of the subcontinent, both Muslims and Hindus, are callously indifferent to the curse of Pakistan, with too many Muslims on the side of injustice and criminality.
                                         
                                        Sukhamaya Bain
                                         
                                        ========================================
                                        From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@...>
                                        To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 7:29 PM
                                        Subject: [mukto-mona] Partition: Panorama of the Indian history andhHuman tragedies,
                                         
                                        Some facts:
                                        1. The notorious Radcliffe Boundary Award divided the Shikh community almost into two equal groups. The Award was irrational in many other areas also including Bengal.
                                        2. 500,000 were killed in communal riots.
                                        3. Involunary exchange of population caused displacement of 5.5 million each way across the new India-Pakistan border in the Punjab. In addition 400,000 Hindus left Sind  and over a million moved from East Pakistan to India. According to one recent NPR reporting, 95:5 Hindu-Muslim population ratio in Karachi was completely reversed in few years.
                                        4. There were 362 states (major ones include Kashmir, Hyderabad, and Junagadh) which did not fall under the jurisdiction of the Radcliffe Boundary Award. British advised them to join either of the two newly created states---India and Pakistan. Both carrot (personal privileges and pensions free of income tax) and stick were used to oblige the princely states to take a decision. All except Kashmir (a mixed state although with majority Muslim population overall and the Hindu King), Hyderabad (Muslim ruler with 85% hindu population), and Junagadh (with Muslim Nawab with Hindu majority) failed to take a decision before independence. The Nawab of Junagadh opted for Pakistan. In a few weeks the Indian troops occupied the state. The Nizam of Hyderabad was stubborn and allowed an extremist organization called the Razakars to seize control. Indian govt. got the excuse and made it a part of India. The Hindu ruler of Kashmir was playing, but decided to join India as soon as a Pathan irregular force attacked Kashmir. With pressure from Pakistan Nehru agreed to a plebiscite which has never been materialized. 
                                        5. I do not know when and under what conditions the Maharani of Tripura was negotiatiating with Pakistan for a possible accession to that country. Tripura is a land-locked country. I do not know what were her considerations behind joining Pakistan instead of India. That seems to be really an interesting case. As far as I know culturally the King of Tripura was more connected to Kolkata.       

                                        From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...>
                                        To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 5:00 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                         
                                        Responding to QAR's comment, "People of Tripura has historical ties to Bengal and they are comfortable around us."
                                         
                                        Could you elaborate on this? What is the basis of their 'historical ties’ with the Muslim-majority East Bengal, over the Hindu-majority West Bengal? What have the Muslims of East Bengal done for the Hindu-majority people of Tripura for them to be more ‘comfortable around us’?
                                         
                                        In reality, the no-caste Hindus, i.e., the Namashudras, had more ties with the grass-root Muslims than any other inter-religion ties. These two communities had pretty much the same occupation, mostly agricultural labor. They both were close to the soil of Bengal. The so-called high-caste Hindus, including the zemindars, treated these two communities about the same, low class.
                                         
                                        The Muslims had no logical reason to hate the Namashudras. The Namashudras did not hate the Muslims either, nor did they consider themselves superior to the Muslims. They thought their Muslim brothers would be better than the so-called high caste Hindus. That is why, in 1947, under the leadership of Jogen Mondal, they joined Pakistan over India. And see what they got from the Muslim brothers during Pakistan and during Bangladesh!
                                         
                                        Now, let me give two pieces of advice to people like QAR. 1) My conclusions are based upon facts and logic, not upon imagination and nonsense. Trying to belittle them by calling them ‘your opinions’ is not wise. If you can, come up with additional facts and sounder logic to refute/modify the conclusions that I draw. 2) Academic discussions are necessary for human development, and for a better future; even while we realize that we can not go back in history to change things. Please do not shrug aside academic discussions.
                                         
                                        Sukhamaya Bain
                                         
                                        ===========================================
                                        From: qar <qrahman@...>
                                        To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 9:10 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                         
                                        In the posting below, he thanked Mr. Q. A. Rahman. Is it for Mr. Rahman’s regret that the Pakistani politicians were not smart enough to have a bigger Islamic haven in the subcontinent?

                                        >>>>>>> With due respect, I think you are mixing up too many issue. The "Tripura" example was given to show LACK of leadership of the than Pakistani leaders. Pakistan was a country like most other countries. It did not work very well for the citizens because of bad leaders and greedy opportunists who cared more then their own interest than country or even their religion. It is wrong to think only Hindus suffered, I feel ALL people suffered. Hindus suffered more because of twisted ideology of blaming Hindus for everything bad. Today I strongly blame India for not giving us "Fair share" of water for ALL of our people. Religion has NOTHING to do with it. But you will find most of my people looking at such vital issue through religious prism!!
                                         
                                        Aren’t she and her people lucky?
                                         
                                        I understand it is 'Your opinion" and we'll never know how it would have turned out. If we had few visionary leaders, we could have been in much better shape. I do not know where you live (BD or other country) but last 10 years Bangladesh made a lot of progress. I strongly feel it will continue. If our political leaders were little more tolerant of each others, we could have benefited more but I try to live with what I have not what I wished for.
                                         
                                        People of Tripura has historical ties to Bengal and they are comfortable around us. Now it is history and ONLY subject of academic discussion. Nothing more ...
                                         
                                        As far as communal problem is concern, it can be lessen by strengthening monitoring institutions (Judicial system, police, education etc) and visionary leaders. Those who are from non-Muslim background are aware of minority persecution but I see oppression of powerful people over powerless continues and it is blind to religion most of the time. The minority persecution is just an ugly extension of that. I bet you those who abuse Hindus (Abusing religion) are mostly ignorant about what Islam says (Or cherry picking verses to fulfill their own darn wishes). Lastly, I'll share a true story. I was taking an interview for a post. One gentleman came with a CV claiming he had a masters degree in Islamic history. I asked him to tell me the meaning of the word "Jihad" and he gave me the wrong answer!! Later he confessed, like secular education system they are given few questions to remember and he just memorized them without understanding most of it. That is why I say, authentic Islamic education can help to lessen hatred among faith communities. The positive part of this story is I also encountered many young men who impressed me with their knowledge. So I am hopeful for a better Bangladesh.
                                         
                                        Shalom!  
                                         
                                        ====================================================
                                        -----Original Message----- From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Apr 27, 2012 1:17 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                         
                                        I am confused by quite a few postings recently in Mukto-Mona, especially by Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty and Dr. Jiten Roy. Look at Dr. Roy’s comments below.
                                         
                                        Here, he wrote,Religion is not the cause of communality.” However, only a few days back (April 21, 2012) in the thread “Religion & Communalism, he wrote, “Therefore, religions are at the very core of communalism.
                                         
                                        In the posting below, he thanked Mr. Q. A. Rahman. Is it for Mr. Rahman’s regret that the Pakistani politicians were not smart enough to have a bigger Islamic haven in the subcontinent? Just read Mr. Rahman’s posting below a little carefully. He did not criticize the Pakistani leaders for any other faults.
                                         
                                        Mr. Rahman expressed his opposition to “faith based bashing.” Well, looks like the Maharani of Tripura was as stupid as Jogen Mandal for the Namashudras and Tridib Roy for the Jumma people. Aren’t she and her people lucky? If her wish of 1947 came true, today some non-Muslims intellectuals of Tripura would be exchanging these academic talks with Muslims like Mr. Rahman, just like what Dr. Roy, Mr. Chakrabarty and I are doing. But the people of Tripura would be as sorry as the Hindus and the Jumma people of Bangladesh/Pakistan due to real “faith based bashing.”
                                         
                                        I do not think a two-nation theorist can be a real challenger of “faith based bashing.”
                                         
                                        Sukhamaya Bain
                                         
                                        =================================================

                                        From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
                                        To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 7:15 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                         
                                        Thank you. Let me say this. Communalism is a different entity from religion. Religion is not the cause of communality. It’s the victim of communality. People exploit religion to foment communality. Those who follow religion correctly are not communal. It’s the borderline religious people, many of who has propensity to become communal for their own self-interest.
                                        I my youth, we used to play soccer and volleyball with the Moulavi-teacher of our Primary School; he was our buddy. Also, Moulavi-teacher of our high school was my school-hostel super. He was a very strict religious man, but - used to love me like his sons. He used to guide me like my parents. I have written articles about him in Mukto-mona, and elsewhere before.
                                        I believe - the trouble is with those who are borderline religious. They do not hesitate to use religion to foment hatred to achieve their political or self interest. Truly religious people will not dare to do so. 
                                        Mostly, communality has been a tool for political leaders to achieve their goals. In case of Pakistan, it was the military rulers, who found this tool to bring majority population under their control at the expense of religious minority, in this case Hindus. Those military rulers were not religious, but used to act like one in public. There are other batch of people also, who would show their ultra religiosity outside only to exploit religion. These are dangerous people.
                                        This is the truth – religion can exist without communality, but communality cannot exist without religion.
                                        Jiten Roy
                                        =============================== --- On Tue, 4/24/12, qar <qrahman@...> wrote:

                                        From: qar <qrahman@...>
                                        Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                        To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Tuesday, April 24, 2012, 3:50 AM

                                         
                                        While I agree with most of what you said about "Pakistani politics", I think many Indian politicians are "Play" with religion frequently. Even today Muslim bashing goes on unabated when the time is right. Frequent riots in India says a lot about the problem in "Modern India". The major difference in early India and Pakistan was India was blessed with Gandhi (Nehru, Indira, Rajiv etc) family and Pakistan did not have such seasoned leadership. In reality many Muslims also suffered for lack of good leadership in Pakistan. The "Maharani of Tripura" wanted to join the then East Pakistan and patiently waited almost two years to get some invitations (Around that time India swallowed Hyderabad and Kashmir with VERY different excuses) but our leaders back in Pakistan did not have the skills required to show statesmanship with people of Tripura. Specifically leaders of Bengali origin (Mostly Muslims) were pathetic in negotiations and lost (To newly founded India) more of "Undivided Bengal" and Pakistani Punjab gained more land as a result.  Murshidabad was a Muslim majority state but somehow it stayed with India, defying all logic!! We can certainly criticize and "Bash" criminals but harassing people for their religion is unacceptable. Those of us blessed with some education have to stand united against all faith based bashing. It does not diminish anything from any faiths but exposes ignorants and cowards among us. Shalom!
                                         
                                        ====================================================
                                        -----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Apr 24, 2012 8:27 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                         
                                        Let me ask, once again, why some people become successful, while others aren’t? The only reason is - some people can envision the real solution/problem directly, while others run around bushes. This is the basic principle that works in every field.
                                         
                                        As a result, many people can't envision the real problem Hindu-bashing in Pakistan, which, as a matter of fact, did not start with Ziaul Haque or American policy in the region. Tarek Fatah can conclude whatever he wants, but it really started from the birth of Pakistan. They have been spreading the poison of Hindu-bashing from the onset of Pakistan. This is how they could keep people on both sides separated for that long. Without Hindu-bashing, people would have revolted for reunification by now, like East and West Germany.
                                         
                                        India did not need such poisoning, as they were expecting possibility of reunification from the very beginning. Popular belief was - Pakistan would not survive for long. But, it did - through mind-poisoning with Hindu-bashing.
                                         
                                        Jiten Roy
                                         
                                        ===================================
                                        --- On Mon, 4/23/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:

                                        From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...>
                                        Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                        To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Date: Monday, April 23, 2012, 9:27 PM

                                         
                                        Well, Tarek Fatah's thesis is dead wrong; an over simplification by just blaming one dictator. Without honestly identifying the real problem of anti-Hindu and anti-non-Muslim socio-political culture of Pakistan, no real solution could come; does not matter who Tarek Fatah may be.
                                         
                                        ==============================
                                        From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@...>
                                        To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:34 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                         
                                        I simply made a comment on 2-minute speech by Tarek Fatah. I still believe that Tarek Fatah is generally right. Please listen to the speech and re-read my post. You have gone beyond what Fatah is emphasizing on. I do not think neither Fatah nor I will disagree with you on the communal and anti-Indian politics of the Pakistani rulers. But using text books to antagonize the innocent minds against Hindus started with Ziaul Huque--that is Fatah's thesis. Do not overreact without understanding the point.  Sent from my iPhone
                                         
                                        =============================
                                        On Apr 22, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:
                                         
                                        As I wrote before, blaming America is an easy, cheap and irresponsible way of shifting the culpability from where it really belongs; in this case, Pakistan itself. Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty’s assessment below is seriously flawed.
                                         
                                        In a school textbook in the 1960s, in the then East Pakistan, there was a story where a cow wanted to be sacrificed for Allah in order to go to heaven. In my tender mind, I wondered, how hateful, cow is like a god to the Hindus, yet this is in the textbook that all children have to read! In another history narrative in a textbook, occupation and plundering of the Somnath Temple by Muslim invaders were described as Somnath Bijoy (winning of Somnath). Do these sound like American foreign policy in Afghanistan?
                                         
                                        I would like to ask people like Mr. Chakrabarty to search their memory for facts like the following:
                                         
                                        1)       The resignation of Jogen Mandal in 1950 from the position of Minister of Law, Justice and Labor in Liaquat Ali Khan’s cabinet due to atrocities on Hindus in East Bengal. The government of Pakistan was hostile to religious minorities, not eager to uphold their rights – forcing Mr. Mandal to take a permanent shelter in India.
                                        2)       The colossal scale atrocities on Hindus in Pakistan in 1965, during a war with India.
                                        3)       The regular military of Pakistan killing Hindus, irrespective of political affiliations, in 1971.
                                         
                                        Ayub Khan was the dictator of Pakistan from 1958 to 1969. It would be foolish to suggest that he had nothing to do with the 1965 atrocities, or with the mindset of the Pakistani military that methodically killed innocent and non-violent Hindus in 1971. It would be absurd to think that the character of Zia-ul-Haq sprouted out all of a sudden like a weed from a civilized/innocent Pakistan.
                                         
                                        FYI: Jogen Mandal’s Resignation Letter, if the hyperlink above does not work: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Resignation_letter_of_Jogendra_Nath_Mandal
                                         
                                        Mr. Chakrabarty really needs to do some reading, recalling his memory, and thinking, before making the kind of comments that he made below. If we can not speak truthfully and honestly, let us keep silent, let us just enjoy our life away from talking in the public forums.
                                         
                                        Sukhamaya Bain
                                         
                                        =======================================================
                                      • subimal chakrabarty
                                        1. Jinnah was stubborn, Nehru was impatient, and the British were in a hurry and left almost every thing in a mess. Gandhi was helpless and resorted to
                                        Message 19 of 22 , May 6 1:05 PM
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          1. Jinnah was stubborn, Nehru was impatient, and the British were in a hurry and left almost every thing in a mess. Gandhi was helpless and resorted to seclusion. And the greatest blunder in the history of India occurred. Immediately after partition, India was on the verge of being a failed state. Soldiers of South Indian orgin had to be deployed to contain the communal violence that erupted. Good thing is that India survived the turmoil thanks to the secular, efficient, and visionary elements in the party. Gandhi's assassination turned out to be a boon as Hindu fanatics got cornered in Indian politics for a while.
                                           
                                          2. I agree that Hindu caste-ism had a lot to do with the panoramic change in India's political geography and demography. Jagajivan Ram wanted to defer independence of India by a decade. Jogen Mondal became the trump card for Muslim League and thereby created his own political death and personal tragedy (a good account has been provided in a recent historical novel titled "Barishaler Jogen Mondal" (about a 1100-page book) by a prominent WB writer named Debesh Roy. 
                                           
                                          3. As regards complete reversal of Hindu-Muslim population ratios in Pakistan, I think it was generally true for for all cities and towns. The small town I was raised in had only a handful of Muslims (all professionals) even in late fifties. The reasons include the fact that businessmen, teachers, doctors, lawyeras, etc. came from caste Hindus. They started leaving for India creating a big vacuum.
                                           
                                          4. Similar trends could be found in the Indian states (Bihar, Nagaland, etc.) which have indigenous people as the majority. That is one of the fruits of independence that less privileged sections of the population enjoyed. I do not have the proper statistics. But I see a huge number of educated people with highest degrees including PH.D among the scheduled caste population in Bangladesh. We sometimes get carried away with frustration and try to believe that independence of Bangladesh has done us nothing. If we look at the statistics, we should be convinced that economically, socially, and culturally, the Bengalis in general have achieved a lot. What has not happened is the reduction of disparity, corruption, communal-ism, persecutions, and injustice. Probably in some areas things have become worse.   

                                          From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...>
                                          To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Friday, May 4, 2012 7:18 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Partition: Panorama of the Indian history andhHuman tragedies,
                                           
                                          The bottom line really is that the Hindu-Muslim two-nation theory for the creation of Pakistan was probably the second biggest curse in the history of the Indian subcontinent; the first being the Hindu caste system. (I call the Hindu caste system the number one curse, because it has caused the most suffering of humanities in the subcontinent over a long period of time, even though it did not cause any big scale killing of people within any short period of time.)
                                           
                                          Now, talking about the 1947 partition to create Pakistan in the subcontinent, just imagine Hyderabad and Junagadh as two other parts of Pakistan, land-locked by India, on top of the eastern and western parts being separated by more than a thousand miles of India. No sensible leadership could ask for such an arrangement of a country at that time.
                                           
                                          Looking at Pakistan over the last 65 years, I would say, today no sensible person, Hindu or Muslim, would regret the fact that Hyderabad, Junagadh, Kashmir or Tripura was not part of Pakistan in 1947 or thereafter. Even the innocent Kashmiri Muslims who got wrongful treatments from the Indian security personnel would not want Pakistan; they would probably want an independent Kashmir.
                                           
                                          While talking about the creation of Pakistan, we have to look at its after-effect that has been going on over the last 65 years. We can blame the British divide-and-conquer policy for the partition. However, we can not blame that for the reversal of the 95:5 Hindu-Muslim population ratio in Karachi within a few years after 1947, as Mr. Chakrabarty has noted below.
                                           
                                          Creation of Pakistan was horrific; worse was the purpose of it, i.e., to do what Pakistan has been doing to the non-Muslims of that land over the last 65 years. It is a shame that too many intellectuals of the subcontinent, both Muslims and Hindus, are callously indifferent to the curse of Pakistan, with too many Muslims on the side of injustice and criminality.
                                           
                                          Sukhamaya Bain
                                           
                                          ========================================
                                          From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@...>
                                          To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 7:29 PM
                                          Subject: [mukto-mona] Partition: Panorama of the Indian history andhHuman tragedies,
                                           
                                          Some facts:
                                          1. The notorious Radcliffe Boundary Award divided the Shikh community almost into two equal groups. The Award was irrational in many other areas also including Bengal.
                                          2. 500,000 were killed in communal riots.
                                          3. Involunary exchange of population caused displacement of 5.5 million each way across the new India-Pakistan border in the Punjab. In addition 400,000 Hindus left Sind  and over a million moved from East Pakistan to India. According to one recent NPR reporting, 95:5 Hindu-Muslim population ratio in Karachi was completely reversed in few years.
                                          4. There were 362 states (major ones include Kashmir, Hyderabad, and Junagadh) which did not fall under the jurisdiction of the Radcliffe Boundary Award. British advised them to join either of the two newly created states---India and Pakistan. Both carrot (personal privileges and pensions free of income tax) and stick were used to oblige the princely states to take a decision. All except Kashmir (a mixed state although with majority Muslim population overall and the Hindu King), Hyderabad (Muslim ruler with 85% hindu population), and Junagadh (with Muslim Nawab with Hindu majority) failed to take a decision before independence. The Nawab of Junagadh opted for Pakistan. In a few weeks the Indian troops occupied the state. The Nizam of Hyderabad was stubborn and allowed an extremist organization called the Razakars to seize control. Indian govt. got the excuse and made it a part of India. The Hindu ruler of Kashmir was playing, but decided to join India as soon as a Pathan irregular force attacked Kashmir. With pressure from Pakistan Nehru agreed to a plebiscite which has never been materialized. 
                                          5. I do not know when and under what conditions the Maharani of Tripura was negotiatiating with Pakistan for a possible accession to that country. Tripura is a land-locked country. I do not know what were her considerations behind joining Pakistan instead of India. That seems to be really an interesting case. As far as I know culturally the King of Tripura was more connected to Kolkata.       

                                          From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...>
                                          To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 5:00 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                           
                                          Responding to QAR's comment, "People of Tripura has historical ties to Bengal and they are comfortable around us."
                                           
                                          Could you elaborate on this? What is the basis of their 'historical ties’ with the Muslim-majority East Bengal, over the Hindu-majority West Bengal? What have the Muslims of East Bengal done for the Hindu-majority people of Tripura for them to be more ‘comfortable around us’?
                                           
                                          In reality, the no-caste Hindus, i.e., the Namashudras, had more ties with the grass-root Muslims than any other inter-religion ties. These two communities had pretty much the same occupation, mostly agricultural labor. They both were close to the soil of Bengal. The so-called high-caste Hindus, including the zemindars, treated these two communities about the same, low class.
                                           
                                          The Muslims had no logical reason to hate the Namashudras. The Namashudras did not hate the Muslims either, nor did they consider themselves superior to the Muslims. They thought their Muslim brothers would be better than the so-called high caste Hindus. That is why, in 1947, under the leadership of Jogen Mondal, they joined Pakistan over India. And see what they got from the Muslim brothers during Pakistan and during Bangladesh!
                                           
                                          Now, let me give two pieces of advice to people like QAR. 1) My conclusions are based upon facts and logic, not upon imagination and nonsense. Trying to belittle them by calling them ‘your opinions’ is not wise. If you can, come up with additional facts and sounder logic to refute/modify the conclusions that I draw. 2) Academic discussions are necessary for human development, and for a better future; even while we realize that we can not go back in history to change things. Please do not shrug aside academic discussions.
                                           
                                          Sukhamaya Bain
                                           
                                          ===========================================
                                          From: qar <qrahman@...>
                                          To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 9:10 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                           
                                          In the posting below, he thanked Mr. Q. A. Rahman. Is it for Mr. Rahman’s regret that the Pakistani politicians were not smart enough to have a bigger Islamic haven in the subcontinent?

                                          >>>>>>> With due respect, I think you are mixing up too many issue. The "Tripura" example was given to show LACK of leadership of the than Pakistani leaders. Pakistan was a country like most other countries. It did not work very well for the citizens because of bad leaders and greedy opportunists who cared more then their own interest than country or even their religion. It is wrong to think only Hindus suffered, I feel ALL people suffered. Hindus suffered more because of twisted ideology of blaming Hindus for everything bad. Today I strongly blame India for not giving us "Fair share" of water for ALL of our people. Religion has NOTHING to do with it. But you will find most of my people looking at such vital issue through religious prism!!
                                           
                                          Aren’t she and her people lucky?
                                           
                                          I understand it is 'Your opinion" and we'll never know how it would have turned out. If we had few visionary leaders, we could have been in much better shape. I do not know where you live (BD or other country) but last 10 years Bangladesh made a lot of progress. I strongly feel it will continue. If our political leaders were little more tolerant of each others, we could have benefited more but I try to live with what I have not what I wished for.
                                           
                                          People of Tripura has historical ties to Bengal and they are comfortable around us. Now it is history and ONLY subject of academic discussion. Nothing more ...
                                           
                                          As far as communal problem is concern, it can be lessen by strengthening monitoring institutions (Judicial system, police, education etc) and visionary leaders. Those who are from non-Muslim background are aware of minority persecution but I see oppression of powerful people over powerless continues and it is blind to religion most of the time. The minority persecution is just an ugly extension of that. I bet you those who abuse Hindus (Abusing religion) are mostly ignorant about what Islam says (Or cherry picking verses to fulfill their own darn wishes). Lastly, I'll share a true story. I was taking an interview for a post. One gentleman came with a CV claiming he had a masters degree in Islamic history. I asked him to tell me the meaning of the word "Jihad" and he gave me the wrong answer!! Later he confessed, like secular education system they are given few questions to remember and he just memorized them without understanding most of it. That is why I say, authentic Islamic education can help to lessen hatred among faith communities. The positive part of this story is I also encountered many young men who impressed me with their knowledge. So I am hopeful for a better Bangladesh.
                                           
                                          Shalom!  
                                           
                                          ====================================================
                                          -----Original Message----- From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Apr 27, 2012 1:17 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                           
                                          I am confused by quite a few postings recently in Mukto-Mona, especially by Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty and Dr. Jiten Roy. Look at Dr. Roy’s comments below.
                                           
                                          Here, he wrote,Religion is not the cause of communality.” However, only a few days back (April 21, 2012) in the thread “Religion & Communalism, he wrote, “Therefore, religions are at the very core of communalism.
                                           
                                          In the posting below, he thanked Mr. Q. A. Rahman. Is it for Mr. Rahman’s regret that the Pakistani politicians were not smart enough to have a bigger Islamic haven in the subcontinent? Just read Mr. Rahman’s posting below a little carefully. He did not criticize the Pakistani leaders for any other faults.
                                           
                                          Mr. Rahman expressed his opposition to “faith based bashing.” Well, looks like the Maharani of Tripura was as stupid as Jogen Mandal for the Namashudras and Tridib Roy for the Jumma people. Aren’t she and her people lucky? If her wish of 1947 came true, today some non-Muslims intellectuals of Tripura would be exchanging these academic talks with Muslims like Mr. Rahman, just like what Dr. Roy, Mr. Chakrabarty and I are doing. But the people of Tripura would be as sorry as the Hindus and the Jumma people of Bangladesh/Pakistan due to real “faith based bashing.”
                                           
                                          I do not think a two-nation theorist can be a real challenger of “faith based bashing.”
                                           
                                          Sukhamaya Bain
                                           
                                          =================================================

                                          From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...>
                                          To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 7:15 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                           
                                          Thank you. Let me say this. Communalism is a different entity from religion. Religion is not the cause of communality. It’s the victim of communality. People exploit religion to foment communality. Those who follow religion correctly are not communal. It’s the borderline religious people, many of who has propensity to become communal for their own self-interest.
                                          I my youth, we used to play soccer and volleyball with the Moulavi-teacher of our Primary School; he was our buddy. Also, Moulavi-teacher of our high school was my school-hostel super. He was a very strict religious man, but - used to love me like his sons. He used to guide me like my parents. I have written articles about him in Mukto-mona, and elsewhere before.
                                          I believe - the trouble is with those who are borderline religious. They do not hesitate to use religion to foment hatred to achieve their political or self interest. Truly religious people will not dare to do so. 
                                          Mostly, communality has been a tool for political leaders to achieve their goals. In case of Pakistan, it was the military rulers, who found this tool to bring majority population under their control at the expense of religious minority, in this case Hindus. Those military rulers were not religious, but used to act like one in public. There are other batch of people also, who would show their ultra religiosity outside only to exploit religion. These are dangerous people.
                                          This is the truth – religion can exist without communality, but communality cannot exist without religion.
                                          Jiten Roy
                                          =============================== --- On Tue, 4/24/12, qar <qrahman@...> wrote:

                                          From: qar <qrahman@...>
                                          Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                          To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Tuesday, April 24, 2012, 3:50 AM

                                           
                                          While I agree with most of what you said about "Pakistani politics", I think many Indian politicians are "Play" with religion frequently. Even today Muslim bashing goes on unabated when the time is right. Frequent riots in India says a lot about the problem in "Modern India". The major difference in early India and Pakistan was India was blessed with Gandhi (Nehru, Indira, Rajiv etc) family and Pakistan did not have such seasoned leadership. In reality many Muslims also suffered for lack of good leadership in Pakistan. The "Maharani of Tripura" wanted to join the then East Pakistan and patiently waited almost two years to get some invitations (Around that time India swallowed Hyderabad and Kashmir with VERY different excuses) but our leaders back in Pakistan did not have the skills required to show statesmanship with people of Tripura. Specifically leaders of Bengali origin (Mostly Muslims) were pathetic in negotiations and lost (To newly founded India) more of "Undivided Bengal" and Pakistani Punjab gained more land as a result.  Murshidabad was a Muslim majority state but somehow it stayed with India, defying all logic!! We can certainly criticize and "Bash" criminals but harassing people for their religion is unacceptable. Those of us blessed with some education have to stand united against all faith based bashing. It does not diminish anything from any faiths but exposes ignorants and cowards among us. Shalom!
                                           
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                                          -----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Apr 24, 2012 8:27 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                           
                                          Let me ask, once again, why some people become successful, while others aren’t? The only reason is - some people can envision the real solution/problem directly, while others run around bushes. This is the basic principle that works in every field.
                                           
                                          As a result, many people can't envision the real problem Hindu-bashing in Pakistan, which, as a matter of fact, did not start with Ziaul Haque or American policy in the region. Tarek Fatah can conclude whatever he wants, but it really started from the birth of Pakistan. They have been spreading the poison of Hindu-bashing from the onset of Pakistan. This is how they could keep people on both sides separated for that long. Without Hindu-bashing, people would have revolted for reunification by now, like East and West Germany.
                                           
                                          India did not need such poisoning, as they were expecting possibility of reunification from the very beginning. Popular belief was - Pakistan would not survive for long. But, it did - through mind-poisoning with Hindu-bashing.
                                           
                                          Jiten Roy
                                           
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                                          --- On Mon, 4/23/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:

                                          From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...>
                                          Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                          To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Date: Monday, April 23, 2012, 9:27 PM

                                           
                                          Well, Tarek Fatah's thesis is dead wrong; an over simplification by just blaming one dictator. Without honestly identifying the real problem of anti-Hindu and anti-non-Muslim socio-political culture of Pakistan, no real solution could come; does not matter who Tarek Fatah may be.
                                           
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                                          From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@...>
                                          To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:34 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
                                           
                                          I simply made a comment on 2-minute speech by Tarek Fatah. I still believe that Tarek Fatah is generally right. Please listen to the speech and re-read my post. You have gone beyond what Fatah is emphasizing on. I do not think neither Fatah nor I will disagree with you on the communal and anti-Indian politics of the Pakistani rulers. But using text books to antagonize the innocent minds against Hindus started with Ziaul Huque--that is Fatah's thesis. Do not overreact without understanding the point.  Sent from my iPhone
                                           
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                                          On Apr 22, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@...> wrote:
                                           
                                          As I wrote before, blaming America is an easy, cheap and irresponsible way of shifting the culpability from where it really belongs; in this case, Pakistan itself. Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty’s assessment below is seriously flawed.
                                           
                                          In a school textbook in the 1960s, in the then East Pakistan, there was a story where a cow wanted to be sacrificed for Allah in order to go to heaven. In my tender mind, I wondered, how hateful, cow is like a god to the Hindus, yet this is in the textbook that all children have to read! In another history narrative in a textbook, occupation and plundering of the Somnath Temple by Muslim invaders were described as Somnath Bijoy (winning of Somnath). Do these sound like American foreign policy in Afghanistan?
                                           
                                          I would like to ask people like Mr. Chakrabarty to search their memory for facts like the following:
                                           
                                          1)       The resignation of Jogen Mandal in 1950 from the position of Minister of Law, Justice and Labor in Liaquat Ali Khan’s cabinet due to atrocities on Hindus in East Bengal. The government of Pakistan was hostile to religious minorities, not eager to uphold their rights – forcing Mr. Mandal to take a permanent shelter in India.
                                          2)       The colossal scale atrocities on Hindus in Pakistan in 1965, during a war with India.
                                          3)       The regular military of Pakistan killing Hindus, irrespective of political affiliations, in 1971.
                                           
                                          Ayub Khan was the dictator of Pakistan from 1958 to 1969. It would be foolish to suggest that he had nothing to do with the 1965 atrocities, or with the mindset of the Pakistani military that methodically killed innocent and non-violent Hindus in 1971. It would be absurd to think that the character of Zia-ul-Haq sprouted out all of a sudden like a weed from a civilized/innocent Pakistan.
                                           
                                          FYI: Jogen Mandal’s Resignation Letter, if the hyperlink above does not work: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Resignation_letter_of_Jogendra_Nath_Mandal
                                           
                                          Mr. Chakrabarty really needs to do some reading, recalling his memory, and thinking, before making the kind of comments that he made below. If we can not speak truthfully and honestly, let us keep silent, let us just enjoy our life away from talking in the public forums.
                                           
                                          Sukhamaya Bain
                                           
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