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Re: {MPML} AP News story of fireball + meteorite impact crater in Latvia

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  • dfischer@astro.uni-bonn.de
    I ve been bombarded with pictures of this alleged impact crater already, http://foto.delfi.lv/picture/959612 shows it this morning - but I ve also heard
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 26, 2009
      I've been "bombarded" with pictures of this alleged impact crater already,
      http://foto.delfi.lv/picture/959612 shows it this morning - but I've also
      heard about remarks by a geologist that this is a hoax (or a cover-up for
      illegal explosives experiments). We had such a case years ago in Germany,
      the "Loch von Andechs" ...

      Dan
    • Richard Kowalski
      ... This is being discussed on the Meteorite List. if you look at the video on Youtube, you ll see it s a hoax. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD5MUSBOBK0
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 26, 2009
        Charles Bell wrote:
        > AP News story of fireball Sunday evening in northern Latvia creating 9 m wide 3 m deep meteorite impact crater with raised rim. Site has been examined by geologist.
        >
        > Uldis Nulle, a scientist at the Latvian Environment, Geology and Meteorology Center, said there was smoke coming out of the crater when he arrived at the crash site late Sunday in the Mazsalaca region near the Estonian border.
        >
        > "My first impression is that, yes, it was a meteorite," he said. "All the evidence suggests this when compared to pictures of real meteorite craters."
        >
        > He said the rim of the crater was slightly raised and there was a black-grayish scar at the bottom - both signs of a meteorite impact.
        >
        >
        > http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_LATVIA_METEORITE?SITE=FLROC&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
        >

        This is being discussed on the Meteorite List.

        if you look at the video on Youtube, you'll see it's a hoax.


        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD5MUSBOBK0



        Richard Kowalski
        Catalina Sky Survey
        Lunar and Planetary Laboratory
        University of Arizona
        Tucson, AZ 85721
      • Govert Schilling
        ... could you please briefly explain why you re sure it s a hoax, and what it could be instead? ... govert schilling bloemendalsestraat 32 3811 es amersfoort
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 26, 2009
          richard:
          > if you look at the video on Youtube, you'll see it's a hoax.
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD5MUSBOBK0

          could you please briefly explain why you're sure it's a hoax, and what it
          could be instead?

          ----------------------------------
          govert schilling
          bloemendalsestraat 32
          3811 es amersfoort
          the netherlands
          ----------------------------------
          e: mail@...
          w: http://allesoversterrenkunde.nl
          t: +31-33-4700595 (work)
          +31-33-4700525 (home)
          f: +31-84-2284818
          m: +31-655-877287
          http://twitter.com/goverttweets
          ----------------------------------
        • Richard Kowalski
          We all know that meteorites are not hot when they land, and certainly don t look like a pile of burning garbage at the bottom of a pit dug by a backhoe...
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 26, 2009
            We all know that meteorites are not hot when they land, and certainly don't look
            like a pile of burning garbage at the bottom of a pit dug by a backhoe...

            Maybe it is something else, but it is being touted as a meteorite impact, which
            is clearly not the case.

            Richard



            Govert Schilling wrote:
            > richard:
            >> if you look at the video on Youtube, you'll see it's a hoax.
            >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD5MUSBOBK0
            >
            > could you please briefly explain why you're sure it's a hoax, and what it
            > could be instead?
            >
            > ----------------------------------
            > govert schilling
            > bloemendalsestraat 32
            > 3811 es amersfoort
            > the netherlands
            > ----------------------------------
            > e: mail@...
            > w: http://allesoversterrenkunde.nl
            > t: +31-33-4700595 (work)
            > +31-33-4700525 (home)
            > f: +31-84-2284818
            > m: +31-655-877287
            > http://twitter.com/goverttweets
            > ----------------------------------
            >
            >


            --
            Richard Kowalski
            Catalina Sky Survey
            Lunar and Planetary Laboratory
            University of Arizona
            Tucson, AZ 85721
          • Matson, Robert D.
            Hi All, I ve continued to follow the growing arc of 2009 UV18, and have been trying to link it with something already hiding in the ASTORB database. So far, no
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 26, 2009
              Hi All,

              I've continued to follow the growing arc of 2009 UV18, and have
              been trying to link it with something already hiding in the ASTORB
              database. So far, no matches. I've been using FindOrb to generate
              a bunch of virtual asteroids of varying semi-major axis values,
              and then doing a D-criteria search against ASTORB. So far all the
              similar-orbit objects have been nowhere near the correct mean
              anomaly (and usually far too small).

              My current nominal solution is a=2.765, e=0.5877, i=8.29, with rms
              residuals of 0.344". Forcing a larger semi-major axis doesn't help
              explain away the large H value -- it just puts the last perihelion
              passage further in the past. But this got me to wondering: if I
              force a=5.2, the residuals only increase to 0.361" (showing just
              how uncertain the semi-major axis still is with a 4-day arc). Of
              course, I chose that particular value of "a" for a reason: could
              2009 UV18 be a Jupiter-family comet? I would think someone would
              have noticed cometary activity by now, but it would neatly explain
              the brightness and failed linkage.

              --Rob
            • Richard Kowalski
              Turns out it was a publicity stunt.
              Message 6 of 9 , Oct 26, 2009
                Turns out it was a publicity stunt.
              • Reiner M. Stoss
                Rob and list, ... With our set from tonight which extends the arc by a full day, the orbit gets larger . Larger a and e, and q too. NET UCAC-2 K09U18V C2009
                Message 7 of 9 , Oct 26, 2009
                  Rob and list,

                  > My current nominal solution is a=2.765, e=0.5877, i=8.29, with rms
                  > residuals of 0.344". Forcing a larger semi-major axis doesn't help
                  > explain away the large H value -- it just puts the last perihelion
                  > passage further in the past. But this got me to wondering: if I
                  > force a=5.2, the residuals only increase to 0.361" (showing just
                  > how uncertain the semi-major axis still is with a 4-day arc). Of
                  > course, I chose that particular value of "a" for a reason: could
                  > 2009 UV18 be a Jupiter-family comet? I would think someone would
                  > have noticed cometary activity by now, but it would neatly explain
                  > the brightness and failed linkage.

                  With our set from tonight which extends the arc by a full day,
                  the orbit gets "larger". Larger a and e, and q too.

                  NET UCAC-2
                  K09U18V C2009 10 27.10599 08 12 20.282+18 48 48.94 18.1 V J75
                  K09U18V C2009 10 27.11579 08 12 22.201+18 48 46.75 18.3 V J75
                  K09U18V C2009 10 27.12557 08 12 24.080+18 48 44.49 18.2 V J75
                  K09U18V C2009 10 27.13538 08 12 25.993+18 48 42.27 18.2 V J75

                  Orbital elements:
                  2009 UV18
                  Perihelion 2010 Jan 19.166587 TT = 3:59:53 (JD 2455215.666587)
                  Epoch 2009 Oct 27.0 TT = JDT 2455131.5 Earth MOID: 0.2220 Ju: 0.5154
                  M 345.03505 (2000.0) Ma: 0.0484
                  n 0.17780151 Peri. 63.08661 -0.85525233 -0.49755790
                  a 3.13217298 Node 86.75851 0.40894009 -0.81968935
                  e 0.6284234 Incl. 8.34164 0.31829459 -0.28380536
                  P 5.54 H 15.5 G 0.15 q 1.16384215 Q 5.10050381
                  From 78 observations 2009 Oct. 22-27; RMS error 0.338 arcseconds
                  091022 704 .53+ .36+ 091024 926 .06- .27+ 091025 H45 .10- .21-
                  091022 704 .05+ .29+ 091024 926 .19+ .30+ 091025 850 .11- .19+
                  091022 704 .32+ .43+ 091024 H01 .19- .05+ 091025 H45 .04+ .19-
                  091022 704 .04+ .11- 091024 926 .27+ .24+ 091025 H45 .05+ .05-
                  091023 J95 .19- .04+ 091024 H01 .26- .03+ 091025 H45 .01+ .34+
                  091023 J95 .60- .50- 091024 H10 .12+ .21+ 091025 H45 .13+ .40+
                  091023 J95 .14- .29- 091024 G96 .06+ .19- 091025 850 .40+ .13-
                  091023 H06 .10+ .53- 091024 H10( 1.5- .09+) 091025 H45 .61+ .16+
                  091023 H06 .19+ .57- 091024 H10( 1.3+ .03-) 091025 H45 .01- .06+
                  091023 854 .01+ .29+ 091024 H10( 4.3- .85-) 091025 H45 .45+ .06+
                  091023 854 .47+ .70+ 091024 G96 .00 .17- 091025 H45 .17- .24+
                  091023 H06 .13+ .42- 091024 H10 .44+ .16- 091025 H45 .14- .38+
                  091023 854 .23+ .09- 091024 G96 .02+ .13- 091025 H45 .14- .26+
                  091023 926 .27- .07+ 091024 G96 .01+ .10- 091025 926 .18+ .32+
                  091023 926 .09- .05+ 091025 H01 .06- .12+ 091025 926 .18+ .20+
                  091023 926 .21+ .23+ 091025 H01 .03- .17+ 091025 926 .23+ .27+
                  091023 H10 .09- .22- 091025 H01 .09- .20+ 091026 204 .19- .11-
                  091023 H10 .96- .05+ 091025 H01 .04- .16+ 091026 204 .05- .06+
                  091023 H10 .32- .45- 091025 850 .02+ .06- 091026 J95 .08- .29-
                  091023 H10 .03- .13- 091025 850 .10+ .40- 091026 J95 .15- .21-
                  091023 H10 .25- .02- 091025 850 .11- .24- 091026 J95 .04- .06-
                  091024 H36 .15+ .05- 091025 850 .12+ .08- 091026 204 .17- .10+
                  091024 H36 .05- .03- 091025 850 .20- .11- 091026 204 .24- .10+
                  091024 H36 .22- .02- 091025 850 .23+ .05+ 091027 J75 .12- .09-
                  091024 H01 .36- .13- 091025 H45 .07+ .16- 091027 J75 .11+ .07-
                  091024 H01 .23- .11- 091025 850 .14+ .07- 091027 J75 .15- .11-
                  091024 H01 .17- .01- 091025 H45 .19+ .33- 091027 J75 .01+ .10-

                  Re. Jupiter-family comet. Why would the semimajor axis have
                  to be 5.2 AU? Don't they usually have anything but 5.2 AU?

                  Something else might be interesting however, for the orbit given above:
                  # Tisserand relative to Earth: 3.04348
                  # Tisserand relative to Jupiter: 2.85551

                  R.
                • Matson, Robert D.
                  Hi Reiner, ... Whoops! I meant for the aphelion to be around 5.2. Semimajor axis is usually between 3 and 4.5 for JFCs. Based on your most recent orbit below,
                  Message 8 of 9 , Oct 27, 2009
                    Hi Reiner,

                    > Re. Jupiter-family comet. Why would the semimajor axis have
                    > to be 5.2 AU? Don't they usually have anything but 5.2 AU?

                    Whoops! I meant for the aphelion to be around 5.2. Semimajor
                    axis is usually between 3 and 4.5 for JFCs. Based on your most
                    recent orbit below, 2009 UV18 is not a bad JFC candidate:
                    Most Jupiter family comets have:

                    3 < a < 4.5
                    1 < q < 2.5
                    i < 15

                    --Rob

                    - - - - -

                    Orbital elements:
                    2009 UV18
                    Perihelion 2010 Jan 19.166587 TT = 3:59:53 (JD 2455215.666587)
                    Epoch 2009 Oct 27.0 TT = JDT 2455131.5 Earth MOID: 0.2220 Ju: 0.5154
                    M 345.03505 (2000.0) Ma: 0.0484
                    n 0.17780151 Peri. 63.08661 -0.85525233 -0.49755790
                    a 3.13217298 Node 86.75851 0.40894009 -0.81968935
                    e 0.6284234 Incl. 8.34164 0.31829459 -0.28380536
                    P 5.54 H 15.5 G 0.15 q 1.16384215 Q 5.10050381
                    From 78 observations 2009 Oct. 22-27; RMS error 0.338 arcseconds


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