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Re: {MPML} name your own asteroid?

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  • P. Clay Sherrod
    This is something that the participants of this forum should vigorously protest and attempt to reverse. This obviously will serve no purpose other than
    Message 1 of 22 , Jun 4, 2009
      This is something that the participants of this forum should vigorously protest and
      attempt to reverse. This obviously will serve no purpose other than financial
      profiteering by the owners of this scam, and indeed will not only confuse the public but
      will _greatly_ dilute the impact of those named asteroids that were so labeled
      appropriately by the astronomical community.

      This is a bit shocking to say the least and I am very curious how an asteroid gets named
      "David" and whose discovery gets essentially taken away to have so named....any ideas or
      facts on this commercialization that can shed some light on the outfit that is doing this?

      Frankly, I see this as territory in which the MPC should actively oppose and attempt to
      shut down.

      Dr. Clay
      _____
      Arkansas Sky Observatories
      MPC H45 - Petit Jean Mountain South
      MPC H41 - Petit Jean Mountain
      MPC H43 - Conway West
      http://www.arksky.org/

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <dskillman@...>
      To: <mpml@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 5:47 PM
      Subject: {MPML} name your own asteroid?


      > All,
      >
      > Came across this - sure to confuse the public.
      >
      > Dave Skillman/H82
      >
      >
      > https://asteroiddatabase.com/index.php
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      >
      > Posts to this list or information found within may be freely used, with the stipulation
      > that MPML and the originating author are cited as the source of the information.Yahoo!
      > Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
    • Loucks, Scott
      It had always been a joke on this list that an MP registry would some day become a reality.. well here we are.. -Scott
      Message 2 of 22 , Jun 4, 2009
        It had always been a joke on this list that an MP registry would some
        day become a reality.. well here we are..

        -Scott

        >-----Original Message-----
        >From: mpml@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mpml@yahoogroups.com] On
        >Behalf Of dskillman@...
        >Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 3:47 PM
        >To: mpml@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: {MPML} name your own asteroid?
        >
        >All,
        >
        >Came across this - sure to confuse the public.
        >
        >Dave Skillman/H82
        >
        >
        >https://asteroiddatabase.com/index.php
        >
        >
        >
        >------------------------------------
        >
        >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        >
        >Posts to this list or information found within may be freely
        >used, with the stipulation that MPML and the originating
        >author are cited as the source of the information.Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • gpobs
        I d better inquire if I get a royalty for each one of my discoveries that they name.
        Message 3 of 22 , Jun 4, 2009
          I'd better inquire if I get a royalty for each one of my discoveries that they name.

          -----Original Message-----
          >From: dskillman@...
          >Sent: Jun 4, 2009 6:47 PM
          >To: mpml@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: {MPML} name your own asteroid?
          >
          >All,
          >
          >Came across this - sure to confuse the public.
          >
          >Dave Skillman/H82
          >
          >
          >https://asteroiddatabase.com/index.php
          >
          >
          >
          >------------------------------------
          >
          >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          >
          >Posts to this list or information found within may be freely used, with the stipulation that MPML and the originating author are cited as the source of the information.Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • Patrick Wiggins
          Actually I m surprised this has not happened already. The way I understand it (someone please correct me if I m wrong) anyone, be they a discover or not, may
          Message 4 of 22 , Jun 4, 2009
            Actually I'm surprised this has not happened already.

            The way I understand it (someone please correct me if I'm wrong)
            anyone, be they a discover or not, may submit a name for any orphaned
            minor planet that has been numbered for 10 years or longer but which
            has not been named.

            patrick
            718

            On 04 Jun 2009, at 17:19, P. Clay Sherrod wrote:

            > This is something that the participants of this forum should
            > vigorously protest and
            > attempt to reverse. This obviously will serve no purpose other than
            > financial
            > profiteering by the owners of this scam, and indeed will not only
            > confuse the public but
            > will _greatly_ dilute the impact of those named asteroids that were
            > so labeled
            > appropriately by the astronomical community.
            >
            > This is a bit shocking to say the least and I am very curious how an
            > asteroid gets named
            > "David" and whose discovery gets essentially taken away to have so
            > named....any ideas or
            > facts on this commercialization that can shed some light on the
            > outfit that is doing this?
            >
            > Frankly, I see this as territory in which the MPC should actively
            > oppose and attempt to
            > shut down.
            >
            > Dr. Clay
          • P. Clay Sherrod
            That is truly the key here: they are essentially taking the rights of discovery away from the discoverer. The Star Registry scam that has been going on
            Message 5 of 22 , Jun 4, 2009
              That is truly the key here: they are essentially taking the rights of discovery away
              from the discoverer. The "Star Registry" scam that has been going on for years does not
              lay claim to something that someone else can actually prove that they "discovered", but
              this is not the case with a minor planet. By laying a softening "a portion of all
              proceeds will be donated...." qualifier in the mix, they hope to diffuse the outrage.

              Hopefully the outrage will not be diffused. I see this as a huge trespassing into
              scientific discovery and rights.

              Dr. Clay
              _____
              Arkansas Sky Observatories
              MPC H45 - Petit Jean Mountain South
              MPC H41 - Petit Jean Mountain
              MPC H43 - Conway West
              http://www.arksky.org/

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "gpobs" <gpobs@...>
              To: <mpml@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 6:25 PM
              Subject: Re: {MPML} name your own asteroid?


              > I'd better inquire if I get a royalty for each one of my discoveries that they name.
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              >>From: dskillman@...
              >>Sent: Jun 4, 2009 6:47 PM
              >>To: mpml@yahoogroups.com
              >>Subject: {MPML} name your own asteroid?
              >>
              >>All,
              >>
              >>Came across this - sure to confuse the public.
              >>
              >>Dave Skillman/H82
              >>
              >>
              >>https://asteroiddatabase.com/index.php
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>------------------------------------
              >>
              >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              >>
              >>Posts to this list or information found within may be freely used, with the stipulation
              >>that MPML and the originating author are cited as the source of the information.Yahoo!
              >>Groups Links
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              >
              > Posts to this list or information found within may be freely used, with the stipulation
              > that MPML and the originating author are cited as the source of the information.Yahoo!
              > Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
            • Loucks, Scott
              How much does it cost to name an asteroid? The cost is $59.95. This is considerably cheaper than increasing my aperture ..lol
              Message 6 of 22 , Jun 4, 2009
                " How much does it cost to name an asteroid?
                The cost is $59.95."

                This is considerably cheaper than increasing my aperture ..lol

                >-----Original Message-----
                >From: mpml@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mpml@yahoogroups.com] On
                >Behalf Of dskillman@...
                >Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 3:47 PM
                >To: mpml@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: {MPML} name your own asteroid?
                >
                >All,
                >
                >Came across this - sure to confuse the public.
                >
                >Dave Skillman/H82
                >
                >
                >https://asteroiddatabase.com/index.php
                >
                >
                >
                >------------------------------------
                >
                >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                >
                >Posts to this list or information found within may be freely
                >used, with the stipulation that MPML and the originating
                >author are cited as the source of the information.Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Edward Bowell
                Clay: This may be an IAU matter, so there may be discussion about it at the next General Assembly in Rio de Janeiro in two months time. Thanks for the
                Message 7 of 22 , Jun 4, 2009
                  Clay:



                  This may be an IAU matter, so there may be discussion about it at the next
                  General Assembly in Rio de Janeiro in two months' time.



                  Thanks for the original post, Dave.



                  Ted Bowell

                  President, IAU Division III

                  Member, IAU Committee on Small Body Nomenclature



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: mpml@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mpml@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of P.
                  Clay Sherrod
                  Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 4:20 PM
                  To: mpml@yahoogroups.com; dskillman@...
                  Subject: Re: {MPML} name your own asteroid?








                  This is something that the participants of this forum should vigorously
                  protest and
                  attempt to reverse. This obviously will serve no purpose other than
                  financial
                  profiteering by the owners of this scam, and indeed will not only confuse
                  the public but
                  will _greatly_ dilute the impact of those named asteroids that were so
                  labeled
                  appropriately by the astronomical community.

                  This is a bit shocking to say the least and I am very curious how an
                  asteroid gets named
                  "David" and whose discovery gets essentially taken away to have so
                  named....any ideas or
                  facts on this commercialization that can shed some light on the outfit that
                  is doing this?

                  Frankly, I see this as territory in which the MPC should actively oppose and
                  attempt to
                  shut down.

                  Dr. Clay
                  _____
                  Arkansas Sky Observatories
                  MPC H45 - Petit Jean Mountain South
                  MPC H41 - Petit Jean Mountain
                  MPC H43 - Conway West
                  http://www.arksky. <http://www.arksky.org/> org/

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: <dskillman@comcast. <mailto:dskillman%40comcast.net> net>
                  To: <mpml@yahoogroups. <mailto:mpml%40yahoogroups.com> com>
                  Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 5:47 PM
                  Subject: {MPML} name your own asteroid?

                  > All,
                  >
                  > Came across this - sure to confuse the public.
                  >
                  > Dave Skillman/H82
                  >
                  >
                  > https://asteroiddat <https://asteroiddatabase.com/index.php>
                  abase.com/index.php
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  >
                  > Posts to this list or information found within may be freely used, with
                  the stipulation
                  > that MPML and the originating author are cited as the source of the
                  information.Yahoo!
                  > Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Reiner M. Stoss
                  Shouldn t the subject be name other people s asteroid ? ;-) After all Mr. Joshua Kit (according to whois services that s the person behind this scam) is
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jun 4, 2009
                    Shouldn't the subject be "name other people's asteroid"? ;-)

                    After all Mr. Joshua Kit (according to whois services that's the
                    person behind this scam) is naming the asteroids that *we*
                    (the community) have discovered.

                    But then again, why complain when the CSBN does this
                    since it was set in place :-)

                    > Frankly, I see this as territory in which the MPC should actively oppose and attempt to
                    > shut down.

                    The MPC will soon swim in money like $crooge McDuck.
                    See what is written in the FAQs of this scam:

                    -----
                    How much does IAD donate for each registration?
                    Twenty percent, after taxes. During the naming process,
                    we encourage you to choose where the donation from your
                    registration will go from a list which includes Oxfam Tsunami
                    Relief, The World Wildlife Fund, and The Smithsonian.
                    -----

                    So the more birdbrained people pay for this, the more money
                    goes to "The Smithsonian" (I am sure those nitwits mean
                    the MPC*) et voila MPC funding problem solved LOL

                    (*) because they claim that:

                    -----
                    Best of all, the cost of your registration is donated to research
                    and education programs which help to protect our planet from
                    the real threat that asteroids can pose to Earth
                    -----

                    Hmm, I'd suggest they add PanSTARRS to the list of donees,
                    after all they are half a decade or so behind schedule and I fear
                    they will end up like Duke Nukem Forever... vaporware ;-)

                    R.
                  • Loucks, Scott
                    Is the IAD an official organization? The global body in charge of giving asteroids their official designations is the Minor Planet Center, which is
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jun 4, 2009
                      "Is the IAD an official organization?

                      The global body in charge of giving asteroids their official
                      designations is the Minor Planet Center, which is subordinate to the
                      International Asttronomical Union. The International Asteroid Database
                      is not affiliated with either of these organizations. "

                      Maybe not affiliated, but soon to be acquainted I suspect ..lol

                      -Scott


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • P. Clay Sherrod
                      .....and what agency gives them that right to do so? I would think that this is an issue that can clearly be stopped by cooperation with the IAU, MPC and the
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jun 4, 2009
                        .....and what agency gives them that "right" to do so?
                        I would think that this is an issue that can clearly be stopped by cooperation with the
                        IAU, MPC and the actual "owner-discoverer" (please understand that I am not implying that
                        each discovery is owned by its discoverer....somewhat tongue-in-cheek here....) against
                        this company.

                        I am still reeling in answering requests from folks who have invested good money in "star
                        names" for stars that are not actually appearing on any star catalog during any epoch.

                        Dr. Clay
                        _____
                        Arkansas Sky Observatories
                        MPC H45 - Petit Jean Mountain South
                        MPC H41 - Petit Jean Mountain
                        MPC H43 - Conway West
                        http://www.arksky.org/

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Patrick Wiggins" <paw@...>
                        To: "mpml (list) mpml" <mpml@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 6:27 PM
                        Subject: Re: {MPML} name your own asteroid?


                        > Actually I'm surprised this has not happened already.
                        >
                        > The way I understand it (someone please correct me if I'm wrong)
                        > anyone, be they a discover or not, may submit a name for any orphaned
                        > minor planet that has been numbered for 10 years or longer but which
                        > has not been named.
                        >
                        > patrick
                        > 718
                        >
                        > On 04 Jun 2009, at 17:19, P. Clay Sherrod wrote:
                        >
                        >> This is something that the participants of this forum should
                        >> vigorously protest and
                        >> attempt to reverse. This obviously will serve no purpose other than
                        >> financial
                        >> profiteering by the owners of this scam, and indeed will not only
                        >> confuse the public but
                        >> will _greatly_ dilute the impact of those named asteroids that were
                        >> so labeled
                        >> appropriately by the astronomical community.
                        >>
                        >> This is a bit shocking to say the least and I am very curious how an
                        >> asteroid gets named
                        >> "David" and whose discovery gets essentially taken away to have so
                        >> named....any ideas or
                        >> facts on this commercialization that can shed some light on the
                        >> outfit that is doing this?
                        >>
                        >> Frankly, I see this as territory in which the MPC should actively
                        >> oppose and attempt to
                        >> shut down.
                        >>
                        >> Dr. Clay
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                        >
                        > Posts to this list or information found within may be freely used, with the stipulation
                        > that MPML and the originating author are cited as the source of the information.Yahoo!
                        > Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Reiner M. Stoss
                        ... The IAU is not even able to control its CSBN mess. As Patrick said, as discoverer you have for ten years after the object was numbered the *privilege* to
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jun 4, 2009
                          Patrick wrote:
                          > The way I understand it (someone please correct me if I'm wrong)
                          > anyone, be they a discover or not, may submit a name for any orphaned
                          > minor planet that has been numbered for 10 years or longer but which
                          > has not been named.

                          Edward Bowell wrote:
                          > This may be an IAU matter, so there may be discussion about it at the next
                          > General Assembly in Rio de Janeiro in two months' time.

                          The IAU is not even able to control its CSBN mess.
                          As Patrick said, as discoverer you have for ten years
                          after the object was numbered the *privilege* to propose
                          a name for your discovery and the CSBN will then name it,
                          i.e. reject or accept your proposal.

                          In 2003 they have introduced the so called "Sydney rule"
                          which says that a discoverer is permitted to submit only
                          two (!) names per MPC naming batch, i.e. every two months.
                          Thus effectively they have put an upper limit of 12 names
                          per discoverer and year. Any discoverer who has more
                          discoveries is therefore taken off his rights to name them via
                          the CSBN. And people with a lot of discoveries are therefore
                          not allowed to name them within the 10 year limit at all.
                          So much about common-sense and IAU/CSBN naming rules
                          and guidelines.

                          At least it seems that the majority in CSBN is now
                          *against* setting a H limit (15.0 or 16.0 was debated,
                          don't remember). It looks therefore that naming
                          of "small" mainbelt asteroids will remain possible,
                          even though some CSBN members are against, i.e. they
                          say that it is too much work and only NEOs, TNOs and
                          such objects should receive names.
                          Glad they finally reached this understanding, or they
                          would directly boost the commercial success of such
                          asteroid registries like the one above.

                          And there is another good news to come (hopefully)
                          soon. Not just will there be no H limit, but I heard
                          that somebody at MPC (name removed) is working on an
                          interactive website that will be available for the discoverers to
                          submit their naming proposals to CSBN, receive feedback from
                          CSBN, change the citation if requested and so on.

                          Let's face it... the star registries and this asteroid registry
                          probably too have all kind of fancy software/websites to deal and
                          communicate with large numbers of clients and names, but our
                          "registry", the CSBN, works with stone age technology.
                          Time for a change finally.

                          R.
                        • Loucks, Scott
                          From the IAU CSBN site: http://www.ss.astro.umd.edu/IAU/csbn/ Naming Small Bodies The committee welcomes questions or suggestions about its procedures or
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jun 4, 2009
                            From the IAU CSBN site: http://www.ss.astro.umd.edu/IAU/csbn/

                            Naming Small Bodies
                            The committee welcomes questions or suggestions about its procedures or
                            suggestions of specific names for certain objects. However, neither the
                            CSBN nor the IAU nor either the CBAT or MPC sells names of comets or
                            asteroids to the public. This derives from the general policy of the IAU
                            on selling names for celestial bodies which you can read at the IAU web
                            site. <http://www.iau.org/IAU/FAQ/starnames.html> The CBAT and the MPC
                            do sometimes name comets or asteroids for people, but only under
                            certain, well-defined guidelines, as linked below.

                            I guess the owners of the IAD missed the intent here and saw this a good
                            opportunity for grab some market share. ..lol

                            -Scott


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Dave Herald
                            Some of the terminology used indicates the person behind it has more than a casual familiarity with asteroids. For example, I do not believe someone with
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jun 4, 2009
                              Some of the terminology used indicates the person behind it has more than a casual familiarity with asteroids. For example, I do
                              not believe someone with casual knowledge of asteroids would refer to the MOID.

                              It is interesting that the IAD web site does not appear to provide any identification of the people behind it in any way.

                              My cynical view of the world - I smell a rat. And this leads me to ask:
                              - is this site real, or merely designed to ignite passions about asteroid naming issues?
                              - who on the MPML mailing list is behind, or associated with, the IAD? [I hope it is no-one, but from my life experiences I
                              wouldn't be surprised....]

                              My other view - it has all the hallmarks of being a scam - a bit like the Nigerian scams. Who in their right mind, or the
                              gullible, would send money to an unknown and uncontactable organisation to get your name associated with a lump of rock that can
                              only be seen with a large telescope? [If you reflect on the star registries, a major factor in their 'success' is that the
                              purchaser can see the star by naked eye, or at least in a pair of binoculars. ]

                              Dave Herald
                              Canberra, Australia


                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Loucks, Scott" <loucksscott@...>
                              To: <mpml@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 9:57 AM
                              Subject: {MPML} name your own asteroid?


                              > "Is the IAD an official organization?
                              >
                              > The global body in charge of giving asteroids their official
                              > designations is the Minor Planet Center, which is subordinate to the
                              > International Asttronomical Union. The International Asteroid Database
                              > is not affiliated with either of these organizations. "
                              >
                              > Maybe not affiliated, but soon to be acquainted I suspect ..lol
                              >
                              > -Scott
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                              >
                              > Posts to this list or information found within may be freely used, with the stipulation that MPML and the originating author are
                              > cited as the source of the information.Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Alain
                              Hello Reiner, Now we have laughed enough, tell us the truth, you made this page, didn t you ? So you have a second life in Florida... interesting... Any way,
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jun 4, 2009
                                Hello Reiner,
                                Now we have laughed enough, tell us the truth, you made this page, didn't
                                you ?
                                So you have a second life in Florida... interesting...

                                Any way, here is the information about the web site, created in 2004...

                                Registrant:
                                Dot-Comet Web Creation
                                607 SE 46 Ln.
                                Cape Coral, Florida 33904
                                United States

                                Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)
                                Domain Name: ASTEROIDDATABASE.COM
                                Created on: 26-Sep-04
                                Expires on: 26-Sep-09
                                Last Updated on: 28-Jul-08

                                Administrative Contact:
                                Kit, Joshua staff@...
                                Dot-Comet Web Creation
                                607 SE 46 Ln.
                                Cape Coral, Florida 33904
                                United States
                                2396037621 Fax --

                                Technical Contact:
                                Kit, Joshua staff@...
                                Dot-Comet Web Creation
                                607 SE 46 Ln.
                                Cape Coral, Florida 33904
                                United States
                                2396037621 Fax --

                                Domain servers in listed order:
                                NS01.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
                                NS02.DOMAINCONTROL.COM

                                To answer Dave Herald, the guy does not seem to be very knowledgeable about
                                asteroids, indeed he talks about MOID, but the definition is quite
                                interesting : "The Earth MOID of an asteroid is an expression of the
                                shortest distance between the asteroid and earth at the time of the
                                asteroid's perigee, or closest point to Earth during its orbit". So you are
                                off the hook, Reiner :)

                                Anybody on this list leaving in Florida could give a visit to this bastard,
                                I can supply a base ball bat made of hard Algarobo wood from the Atacama
                                desert. I'll call him tonight, before going to bed, like at 4 in the
                                morning. Do the same... ( 239-603 7621).
                                I believe it is very unlikely the IAU itself will do anything, I don't see
                                any of these astrophysicists in charge worrying about our naming rights, or
                                spending money they don't have on legal issues. At best I think we can
                                expect a polite letter to the gentleman telling him what he is doing is not
                                right :). I believe the only correct solution is to study the situation on a
                                legal standpoint, see if something can be done, how much it would cost, and
                                create a fund to pay lawyers to get this jerk out of business. I'd be
                                willing to chip in.
                                I don't believe we have anything like a naming right, protected by any
                                international law. "Astronomers say" the discoverer has a naming privilege,
                                but does it have anything like a legal substance in international law ?
                                (Ted, any ideas ?)
                                I agree a little bit with Reiner about the situation. My question is how can
                                I protect my naming rights. Till now, I feared more from the IAU itself than
                                by the private company we had all joked about. My naming rights are already
                                quite restricted by the lack of correct organisation with the CSBN. the MPC
                                was able to cope with the data flow increase, not the CSBN. Then there is
                                the problem with 2005EL61 which was named in violation of any written rules
                                (on the suspicion that something may have not been correct, but without any
                                hint of a beginning of a proof). It is also for the same reason that I
                                object to other people (orbit calculators for example), to become asteroid
                                discoverers. They didn't work at night, and many nights, to get these
                                observations, they should not be allowed to steal my observations away from
                                me, ( plus with the benediction of the IAU???). Nor should this guy be
                                allowed to make money of my/our work.
                                Alain
                              • John Mahony
                                ... Yes. But there are also some glaring errors and inconsistencies: The info page says To date, scientists have discovered about 60,000 asteroids in the
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jun 4, 2009
                                  ----- Original Message ----

                                  > From: Dave Herald <drherald@...>
                                  >
                                  > Some of the terminology used indicates the person behind it has more than a
                                  > casual familiarity with asteroids. For example, I do
                                  > not believe someone with casual knowledge of asteroids would refer to the MOID.

                                  Yes. But there are also some glaring errors and inconsistencies:

                                  The "info" page says "To date, scientists have discovered about 60,000 asteroids in the solar system..."

                                  No, even counting only numbered asteroids, it's over 200,000.

                                  But then the first question/answer on the FAQ page says "There are more than 100,000 known asteroids in the solar system..."

                                  In either case, they are at best badly out of date. I thought possibly that's just the number beyond the "10 year rule" that Patrick mentioned, but a quick look at the second table at
                                  <http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/iau/lists/ArchiveStatistics.html>
                                  shows that that doesn't work, either.

                                  > It is interesting that the IAD web site does not appear to provide any
                                  > identification of the people behind it in any way.

                                  Absolutely. The info page claims that "the cost of your registration is donated to research and education programs which help to protect our planet from the real threat that asteroids can pose to Earth", but they give absolutely no details. So I smell a rat, too.

                                  Even worse, they later say on the FAQ page:

                                  "How much does IAD donate for each registration?
                                  Twenty percent, after taxes."

                                  So what is it? The cost of the registration, or only 20% of it?

                                  Another line on the info page says "Also, all named asteroids will be listed in SpaceVentures forthcoming book, "The Minor Planets", to be listed in the US Copyright Office."

                                  I can't help but notice that the claim that the book will be
                                  "listed in the US copyright office" is the exact same misleading line
                                  used by the "International Star Registry" to make it sound official.
                                  As one "star-naming" debunker noted, you can copyright your laundry
                                  list if you want to.

                                  A google search on "SpaceVentures" isn't promising. The lack of an apostrophe in "SpaceVentures" in that sentence on the info page makes it unclear if it's supposed to be singular or plural, but the organization might be connected to either
                                  <http://spaceventures.blogspot.com/>, a venture capital group,
                                  or possibly to "Pavel", a czech student, at
                                  <http://spaceventures.org>

                                  -John
                                • John Mahony
                                  ... In various discussions about the star-naming scam, I ve heard it said that the only reason it s legal is because no one entity has any specific legal
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jun 4, 2009
                                    ----- Original Message ----

                                    > From: Alain <alain@...>
                                    >
                                    > I don't believe we have anything like a naming right, protected by any
                                    > international law. "Astronomers say" the discoverer has a naming privilege,
                                    > but does it have anything like a legal substance in international law ?

                                    In various discussions about the star-naming scam, I've heard it said that the only reason it's legal is because no one entity has any specific legal authority on star naming, so anyone can technically do it. But those same discussions also sometimes mention that back during the space race, when the US and USSR were both worried that the other side would try to make territorial claims and/or build military bases in space, there was a UN treaty signed that specifically names the IAU as the legal authority for naming (or claiming) anything in the _solar system_ outside the earth.

                                    So that's why the IAU has final authority on asteroid names, even over the discoverer.

                                    I vaguely recall (from the 70's, when I was a kid) ads in popular science/astronomy magazines claiming to sell deeds to land on the moon or Mars. But I _think_ (distant memory) that those were clearly identified as "for novelty purposes only", and usually had a known pro-space non-profit group identified as the organization placing the ads.

                                    -John
                                  • Reiner M. Stoss
                                    Alain, ... Yup, when Dave (Skillman) pointed me privately to the website (before he posted to MPML), the first thing I did was a WHOIS request. And I posted
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Jun 5, 2009
                                      Alain,

                                      > Now we have laughed enough, tell us the truth, you made this page, didn't
                                      > you ?
                                      > So you have a second life in Florida... interesting...
                                      >
                                      > Any way, here is the information about the web site, created in 2004...

                                      Yup, when Dave (Skillman) pointed me privately to the
                                      website (before he posted to MPML), the first thing I did was
                                      a WHOIS request. And I posted the name of the guy in
                                      my MPML message yesterday:

                                      -----
                                      After all Mr. Joshua Kit (according to whois services that's the
                                      person behind this scam) is naming the asteroids that *we*
                                      (the community) have discovered.
                                      -----

                                      I didn't post the entire WHOIS entry because AFAIK
                                      such WHOIS results are copyrighted.

                                      Anyway, after looking closer at the IAD website, it seems
                                      extremely bad made and completely outdated.
                                      On the index page it has "The most recent asteroid names",
                                      mentioning "Roshi", "McNaught" (tsstss, I always knew it Rob :-) ).
                                      "Parishilton" (very creative...) and so on, but take a look at the
                                      source code of the page and you will see that this list is not
                                      generated dynamically, but it is hard coded, and probably didn't change
                                      since months or years. The business seems to run bad.
                                      They need to offer a stimulus program. LOL

                                      BTW, no wonder Joe Public doesn't want to have his name
                                      attached to an asteroid. Do you remember how ugly asteroids
                                      are portrayed in movies? For instance in the mother of all impact movies:

                                      METEOR (1979, with Sean Connery and Brian Keith)

                                      I love it :-)

                                      R.
                                    • Dave Tholen
                                      ... It s the official designation for International Airport Dulles. Oh, you mean something else...
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Jun 5, 2009
                                        > Is the IAD an official organization?

                                        It's the official designation for International Airport Dulles.

                                        Oh, you mean something else...
                                      • Dave Tholen
                                        ... But the definition of MOID provided leaves something to be desired.
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Jun 5, 2009
                                          > Some of the terminology used indicates the person behind it has more
                                          > than a casual familiarity with asteroids. For example, I do not
                                          > believe someone with casual knowledge of asteroids would refer to the
                                          > MOID.

                                          But the definition of MOID provided leaves something to be desired.
                                        • Clark, Maurice
                                          Hi Patrick, The guidelines indicate that this is the case, but in reality no it is not. I tried submitting names for such orphaned asteroids last year, and
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Jun 10, 2009
                                            Hi Patrick,

                                            The guidelines indicate that this is the case, but in reality no it is not. I tried submitting names for such "orphaned" asteroids last year, and they were all rejected because, "some of the committee did not agree with anyone naming such asteroids".

                                            Cheers

                                            Maurice

                                            PS: my suggestions were for a doctor/scientist, the most prolific US author from the 1800's and the recently deceased father of a very close friend.

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: mpml@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Patrick Wiggins
                                            Sent: Thu 6/4/2009 7:27 PM
                                            To: mpml (list) mpml
                                            Subject: Re: {MPML} name your own asteroid?

                                            Actually I'm surprised this has not happened already.

                                            The way I understand it (someone please correct me if I'm wrong)
                                            anyone, be they a discover or not, may submit a name for any orphaned
                                            minor planet that has been numbered for 10 years or longer but which
                                            has not been named.

                                            patrick
                                            718
                                          • Jean-Claude MERLIN
                                            It is a clear proof that this is an hoax. It is a wink to the CSBN ... JC ... From: Clark, Maurice To: Patrick Wiggins ; mpml (list) mpml Sent: Thursday, June
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Jun 11, 2009
                                              It is a clear proof that this is an hoax.
                                              It is a wink to the CSBN ...

                                              JC


                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: Clark, Maurice
                                              To: Patrick Wiggins ; mpml (list) mpml
                                              Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:45 AM
                                              Subject: RE: {MPML} name your own asteroid?






                                              Hi Patrick,

                                              The guidelines indicate that this is the case, but in reality no it is not. I tried submitting names for such "orphaned" asteroids last year, and they were all rejected because, "some of the committee did not agree with anyone naming such asteroids".

                                              Cheers

                                              Maurice

                                              PS: my suggestions were for a doctor/scientist, the most prolific US author from the 1800's and the recently deceased father of a very close friend.

                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: mpml@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Patrick Wiggins
                                              Sent: Thu 6/4/2009 7:27 PM
                                              To: mpml (list) mpml
                                              Subject: Re: {MPML} name your own asteroid?

                                              Actually I'm surprised this has not happened already.

                                              The way I understand it (someone please correct me if I'm wrong)
                                              anyone, be they a discover or not, may submit a name for any orphaned
                                              minor planet that has been numbered for 10 years or longer but which
                                              has not been named.

                                              patrick
                                              718





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