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Re: [mowind] 2009 Upcoming Season Discussion and conference call

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  • Philip S
    Good points by both Woody and Arden. I like the popcorn rule with some semblance of Woody s reasonableness. Philip US 287
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 26, 2008
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      Good points by both Woody and Arden.

      I like the popcorn rule with some semblance of Woody's reasonableness.

      Philip US 287



      On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Brad Woodworth <windsurfwoody@...> wrote:

      Lots to talk about coming up for sure, but I have to pipe up on this one...
       
      I think the finish should be ultimately be left to the discretion of the RC. If you're trying to get off 20 races over the weekend, then you'd have to start thinking about a "time limit". But really, what not a better way to get our beginner windsurfer's turned OFF of racing than by imposing a time limit on them! Give them a break for gosh sakes. Lets not try to re-build Rome here folks, lets keep it SIMPLE and FUN!! If we start over-ruling ourselves to death, then we're going to see a lack of new faces in the regatta scene. It's happening already...
       
      Keeping time limits in place at National Level events only makes sense.
       
      Cheers,
       
      Woody
       


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Arden Anderson <ardenalan@...>
      Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 2:34 pm
      Subject: Re: [mowind] 2009 Upcoming Season Discussion and conference call
      To: mowind@yahoogroups.com

      > Good comments Phil. The point about how an over-arching A-fleet
      > time limit has more effect on the limited classes is well taken.
      > I am a big fan of a "popcorn" style rule in conjunction with the
      > current rule. That is, the finish line is open for 20 minutes
      > after the first finisher (as we do now) and REMAINS OPEN as long
      > as finishers continue to come across within some reasonable
      > spread of each other (the kernels keep popping). I think that
      > spread could be anywhere between 1 minute and 5 minutes.
      >
      > An example, using 5 minutes for the popcorn duration.
      >
      > - The first finisher completes the course at 1:00 pm
      >
      > - 14 more finishers compelete the course by 1:20, all being
      > scored within the existing rules
      >
      > - 2 more finishers are neck and neck near approaching the finish
      > line at 1:20, but don't actually cross until 1:21. Under the
      > exisiting rules they would get a DNF, along with any others
      > still on the course. However, with a popcorn rule in place, they
      > would now be scored as 15th and 16th. Furthermore, the finish
      > time will now be EXTENDED another 5 minutes (to 1:26)
      >
      > - 4 more people finish by 1:26 (for 17-20th  place), also
      > extending the time limit by another 5 minutes to 1:31
      >
      > - Let's say two more people are left on course at this point. If
      > either finishes before the new deadline of 1:31 the line can
      > remain open yet another 5 minutes, but if neither finishes by
      > 1:31, they both receive a DNF (or perhaps get scored in place;
      > this is subject to further discussion or the discretion of the RC).
      >
      > - Overall, this reasonable example allowed 20 finishers instead
      > of 15, while extending the finishing time by an extra 11 minutes
      > (from 1:20 to 1:31).
      >
      > I think this is a flexible method of accounting for various
      > conditions while keeping the pace of races moving along. The
      > specifics of the implementation are subject to discussion:
      > Should it be 5 minutes or something different? Should each
      > extension be of the same duration (5 minute extension the first
      > time, but 3 minutes the second time and only 1 minute
      > thereafter...maybe just leave it to the discretion of the RC)?
      >
      > Happy Holidays!
      > Arden
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Philip S <PTSMANTUA@...>
      > To: mowind@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:43:30 PM
      > Subject: Re: [mowind] 2009 Upcoming Season Discussion and
      > conference call
      >
      >
      > Hi Jack and fellow MOWIND members,
      >
      > Greetings form NE Ohio and a foot or so of fresh wet snow.
      >
      > Hoping that I can contribute more this coming season as I have a
      > new job, that is based in Ohio, and while it does require
      > travel, I was asked to block out preferred times that I would
      > like to be in the US. (so I chose the best guess at the MOWIND
      > schedule)
      > We are at least debating hosting an event in NE Ohio as a 3rd
      > event from Ohio, and wanted to get that idea on the radar screen
      > for discussion, but want to do it "with" MOWIND, TABA and the
      > COWS so we don't detract from other great events.
      >
      > As far as getting to events - for myself and family - coming
      > from the near edge of MOWIND territory makes for some very long
      > trips into WI and MN, even thought there are some excellent regattas.
      >
      > Had I not tried to rip off my finger, we would have made it to
      > Fond du Lac and Higgens, but I suspect we are an exception and
      > just had a blast doing the MOWIND tour this summer when I could.
      >
      > Point is - gas was high - but hours in the car/truck still
      > outweigh the cost of gas. It is a long way to go on a weekend,
      > and a 12 hour drive each way makes it tough when the event
      > finishes near 6 PM on Sunday.
      >
      > That said - I hope the event schedule is better and Matt, Sam
      > and I look forward to seeing you all soon.
      >
      > As far as the DNF discussion,
      >
      > There has been much discussion over the year
      > of what to award DNF or to differentiate reasons since there are many
      > reasons for DNF. In the Nationals this year, a time limit caused many
      > racers to receive a DNF and they voiced an objection to only
      > getting 1
      > point since they actually did complete the course. No changes have
      > yet been made and this is still open for discussion.
      >
      > I would like to weigh in.
      >
      > The specific of that event were that 3 fleets were essentially
      > starting together A(Open and 8.5 limited production) and Sport
      > as I recall.
      >
      > Let's face it - An open class sailor on a formula board in high
      > wind is going to clean the clock of a sport fleet sailor, and
      > often an 8.5 limited sailor. Arden as I recall closed both Matt
      > and I out on a few occasions, and he "was" sailing really well.
      >
      > It was a difficult discussion to explain to Matt why he got only
      > one point even though he had not signed up to race Arden.
      >
      > My point is simple, if we ar going to impose a time limit, it
      > should be reasonable to support on going racing, but should be
      > structured at the fleet level, so that an open class sailor
      > doesn't start the clock for other fleets.
      >
      > It should ALSO be structured so racing can continue without
      > major delay.
      >
      > The adaptation I think used at Door County and during the later
      > stages of Nationals was the RC would score you in the relative
      > position on the course at closure (which allowed racing to
      > progress), but awarded points to the Sport fleet sailors to
      > promote their interest and progress, and then started the next
      > sequence on time.
      >
      > Having said what I said, I am still in favor of an in fleet time
      > limit, especially Open A fleet of 20 minutes, and offer for
      > discussion a time limit with relative position score for those
      > struggling to complete the course in 8.5 limited and Sport, but
      > in Open I DO support a close out.
      >
      > Hope this helps - I would like to join the call if I am allowed
      >
      > Happy T-Day to All!
      >
      > Philip Sage
      > US 287
      >
      >
      > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 12:52 PM, Jack <drjacksonwiley@
      > yahoo.com> wrote:
      >
      > Hello Mowind members,
      >
      > Now that the water is freezing over it is time to get ready for the
      > next year of windsurfing. The purpose of this discussion is to
      > determine what is important to Mowind for the next year. In a few
      > weeks in December (12-20-08, 8:00?), any interested members will have
      > a conference call and decide on the items discussed here.
      >
      > Important topics that come to mind are:
      >
      > Insurance
      > Classes and Fleets
      > Scoring
      > Web Page
      > Officers and Committees
      > Scheduling
      > Fundraising
      > Mowind Merchandise
      >
      > Feel free to comment or introduce you own topic if you think it is
      > important.
      >
      > I would like to summarize the past year and address some of the issues
      > from my personal experience as Mowind President.
      > Most importantly, we had a successful race season. The Mowind Race
      > series scored 15 races with an average attendance of 25,
      > and 75 racers attended more than one event. 29 racers attended more
      > than 4 events. I have listed 110 current Mowind members in the
      > database.
      > In general, race directors were prompt in confirming event
      > dates, and
      > submitting their insurance payments and scores. This reflects the
      > main purpose of Mowind, that is to provide regatta insurance for races
      > in our region. By doing so we can ensure that Mowind members and
      > directors are protected from liability and split the cost among the
      > events. If you would like to become more familiar with our coverage
      > please see this link
      > http://www.david- agency.com/ signal/index. htm#Regatta%
      > 20Liability% 20Insurance
      > We maintain both Regatta Liability and General Liability. For the
      > most part our organization is covered against anything, however there
      > are some exceptions. One major exception is the activity of
      > Kiteboarding, and that has led to some controversial decisions
      > made by
      > me over the past year. Please take a moment to read this article
      > as well:
      > http://www.scka. org/kitesuit. htm
      > Last year we entered new territory when Kiteboarding was
      > included in
      > The Crossing. As incoming president I was presented with different
      > information regarding our insurance, some of which turned out to be
      > completely false. As a result I called our insurance agent to
      > get my
      > questions answered. After that I decided to remove from the schedule
      > any events that included kiteboarding. During the year
      > interested
      > people have been discussing the matter and many suggestions have been
      > proposed such as allowing some events to opt out of Mowind insurance
      > and attempting to obtain their own. This brings up other issues of
      > liability since Mowind would need some resources to review any
      > alternative insurance. Additionally, who wants to be responsible for
      > making these decisions? I consider this extremely important
      > since
      > our insurance covers every Mowind member and volunteer, not just those
      > that make the decisions.
      >
      > This issue also brought up the idea of a "sanctioned" event.
      > Currently all that is required to be a Mowind event is to pay
      > dues for
      > insurance and choose a time and place.
      >
      > There has been some discussion over the year of limiting the
      > number of
      > events in order to encourage a larger attendance at fewer
      > events.
      > This is based on the idea that participation was lower this year due
      > to higher gas prices. When comparing participation to last year
      > however, the numbers are approximately the same, with an event average
      > attendance of 22 for 2007. Two major points are that race directors
      > invest enough time and effort in their events that there
      > shouldn't be
      > a limit on the number of events. We don't want to discourage new
      > events either and would like to keep the organization simple.
      >
      > Over the past few years we have reorganized the classes at Mowind
      > events to reflect different participation. We combined some and
      > introduced others. Currently we have three levels:
      >
      > A Fleet (advanced, usually completes two laps)
      > Open
      > Limited 8.5
      > Hybrid
      > Formula
      > Women
      >
      > Sport Fleet (Intermediate, One lap)
      > Men
      > Women
      >
      > Workshop Fleet (Short course, startline assistance)
      > Men
      > Women
      > Junior
      > Senior
      >
      > Most race directors have used the Mowind classes, and that facilitated
      > adding the scores to the season totals. In addition to providing
      > insurance, a purpose of Mowind is to provide standard rules and
      > scoring for windsurfing events.
      >
      > Our current scoring system is the Mowind Hi-point system. Hi-point
      > systems are prefferred for a series since they can simply be added
      > together. Lo-point systems need to be converted and the process is
      > not always simple. The Mowind system awards 1 point for
      > starting, 1
      > for finishing, and 1 for each racer beaten. Traditionally, DNF has
      > been given only 1 point. There has been much discussion over the year
      > of what to award DNF or to differentiate reasons since there are many
      > reasons for DNF. In the Nationals this year, a time limit caused many
      > racers to receive a DNF and they voiced an objection to only
      > getting 1
      > point since they actually did complete the course. No changes have
      > yet been made and this is still open for discussion. In order to
      > speed up the scoring process I have developed an Excel spreadsheet
      > that has worked well though it still has many limitations. Anyone
      > interested in making revisions is welcome to have a go at it.
      >
      > This year in addition to the Yahoo discussion group, we added a Web
      > page at Mowind.org. Lots of work by Scott Haas and Ulf Jentler
      > resulted in a great place for posting schedules, scores,
      > pictures, and
      > event summaries. Anyone involved in event planning should be
      > able to
      > keep their events updated. Contact Scott to register with the
      > site or
      > at least provide links your event site.
      >
      > Also listed on the web page are the names of Mowind officers and
      > committee members. To my knowledge we have had little committee
      > activity this year. If we are going to have committees, then
      > committee members should be communicating throughout the year.
      > Many of us including myself falsely believe that we will have more
      > time later. Reflecting on the past year, however, I realize that at
      > many events I hardly had time to talk to people, and I felt like
      > I was
      > constantly running around. This reinforces my belief that Mowind
      > should maintain the simplest structure it can, so we can be busy
      > having fun and visiting, rather than doing administrative activities.
      > For this year we have the following people and positions.
      >
      > * President: Dr. Jack Wiley
      > * VP/Secretary: Ulf Jentler
      > * Treasurer: Craig Bergh
      > * Scorer: Jack Wiley, Jeff Koeberl
      > * News: Scott Haas
      >
      > * Calendar: Jeff Adamski, Craig Bergh
      > * Scoring/Rules: Jeff Adamski, Arnie Cleveland, Larry Reed, Kevin
      > Gratton
      > * Awards: Larry Reed, Ulf Jentler, Woody, Don Altmeyer
      > * Sponsorships/ Raffle: Rod Clevenger, Kevin Gratton, Mike, Ulf
      > Jentler* Forum and Web: Arden Anderson , Ulf Jentler, Scott Haas
      >
      > We should discuss what committees we want for this year as well as
      > hear from those who want to be involved. At this time I would also
      > like to solicit nominations for officers, particularly
      > President, and
      > Vice President. I myself (Jack) am not going to be president next
      > year and Ulf has left the country for a while. Perhaps it would
      > be a
      > good time to determine what the president is actually supposed
      > to do.
      >
      > There have been several ideas this year regarding fundraising
      > and we
      > should discuss what we think is appropriate, keeping in mind the
      > amount of time involved. There has been some discussion of printing
      > up Mowind shirts and stickers. I also tried out a project myself this
      > year with lanyards though it may have been too ambitious.
      > My idea was to provide all Mowind Members with Mowind Lanyards
      > and an
      > ID card. I put together a template for ID cards, but the main hurdle
      > was getting individual pictures. I was hoping to be able to get those
      > at events but found I had little time to get it done. I posted
      > on the
      > web page that people could email me their picture for a free ID card,
      > however I got no responses. I have since come to realize that the
      > Mowind web page is great for checking schedules and scores, but not
      > for engaging participants in new activities. We have a raffle going
      > as well though it got a late start this year. Tickets have been for
      > sale at some events as well as on the web page. Sales at the events
      > were good while those from the web page were low. We need to figure
      > out what fundraisers are worth doing and what is a good way of
      > doing them.
      >
      > Please Take some time to think about the issues important to you and
      > whether you think Mowind is headed in the right direction. Using this
      > format for a discussion will allow interested members to digest
      > information and reply on their own time. We will schedule a
      > conference call Mid December. A tentative date is Sat. Dec. 20th at
      > 8:00 central time.
      >
      > Thank you for taking the time to read this and contributing to Mowind.
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >      

    • Scott Haas
      I m willing to do MOWIND.org Web site maintenance and reporting on OH and MI events again in 2009. Needed is a team from WI and MN to BLOG/report on events in
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 27, 2008
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        I'm willing to do MOWIND.org Web site maintenance and reporting on
        OH and MI events again in 2009.

        Needed is a team from WI and MN to BLOG/report on events in that
        region. Ideally a small pre-event post and a followup post with a
        pic or two and link to results is all that is needed.

        Also a set of event pages were established on the Mowind.org site.
        Ideally an event page is generic in content and points to an official
        event Web site. However if an organizer wants to maintain it, they
        can place detailed information on the page. Those that have posted
        specific 2008 info please change where appropriate to note 2009 or
        tentative dates.

        A couple weeks ago I updated the WordPress blogging software to the
        latest version 2.6.3 so that shouldn't have to be done again until
        next Nov.

        Also I installed for trial a simple event calendar list program that
        is integrated in with the WordPress software. Whoever puts together
        the calendar in 2009 can decide if they want to use that or not. I
        believe it will simplify the work involved greatly. The Webmaster
        has already had two queries from people wanting to know 2009 event
        dates.

        The InterLake Yatching Association is to sailing much like the MOWIND
        is to windsurfing in this region. The I-LYA of course can draw
        support from the 100 member clubs or so around the Great Lakes.
        They have a Web page listing their purposes and accomplishments. I'm
        not saying MOWIND needs to be more than it is now. The I-LYA list is
        just food for thought and ideas.
        see http://i-lya.com/About/about.html



        Scott - #H



        --- In mowind@yahoogroups.com, "Jack" <drjacksonwiley@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Mowind members,
        >
        > Now that the water is freezing over it is time to get ready for the
        > next year of windsurfing. The purpose of this discussion is to
        > determine what is important to Mowind for the next year. In a few
        > weeks in December (12-20-08, 8:00?), any interested members will
        have
        > a conference call and decide on the items discussed here.
        >
        > Important topics that come to mind are:
        >
        > Insurance
        > Classes and Fleets
        > Scoring
        > Web Page
        > Officers and Committees
        > Scheduling
        > Fundraising
        > Mowind Merchandise
        >
        > Feel free to comment or introduce you own topic if you think it is
        > important.
        >
        > I would like to summarize the past year and address some of the
        issues
        > from my personal experience as Mowind President.
        > Most importantly, we had a successful race season. The Mowind Race
        > series scored 15 races with an average attendance of 25,
        > and 75 racers attended more than one event. 29 racers attended more
        > than 4 events. I have listed 110 current Mowind members in the
        database.
        >
        > In general, race directors were prompt in confirming event dates,
        and
        > submitting their insurance payments and scores. This reflects the
        > main purpose of Mowind, that is to provide regatta insurance for
        races
        > in our region. By doing so we can ensure that Mowind members and
        > directors are protected from liability and split the cost among the
        > events. If you would like to become more familiar with our coverage
        > please see this link
        > http://www.david-agency.com/signal/index.htm#Regatta%20Liability%
        20Insurance
        > We maintain both Regatta Liability and General Liability. For the
        > most part our organization is covered against anything, however
        there
        > are some exceptions. One major exception is the activity of
        > Kiteboarding, and that has led to some controversial decisions made
        by
        > me over the past year. Please take a moment to read this article
        as well:
        > http://www.scka.org/kitesuit.htm
        > Last year we entered new territory when Kiteboarding was included in
        > The Crossing. As incoming president I was presented with different
        > information regarding our insurance, some of which turned out to be
        > completely false. As a result I called our insurance agent to get
        my
        > questions answered. After that I decided to remove from the
        schedule
        > any events that included kiteboarding. During the year interested
        > people have been discussing the matter and many suggestions have
        been
        > proposed such as allowing some events to opt out of Mowind insurance
        > and attempting to obtain their own. This brings up other issues of
        > liability since Mowind would need some resources to review any
        > alternative insurance. Additionally, who wants to be responsible
        for
        > making these decisions? I consider this extremely important since
        > our insurance covers every Mowind member and volunteer, not just
        those
        > that make the decisions.
        >
        > This issue also brought up the idea of a "sanctioned" event.
        > Currently all that is required to be a Mowind event is to pay dues
        for
        > insurance and choose a time and place.
        >
        > There has been some discussion over the year of limiting the number
        of
        > events in order to encourage a larger attendance at fewer events.
        > This is based on the idea that participation was lower this year due
        > to higher gas prices. When comparing participation to last year
        > however, the numbers are approximately the same, with an event
        average
        > attendance of 22 for 2007. Two major points are that race directors
        > invest enough time and effort in their events that there shouldn't
        be
        > a limit on the number of events. We don't want to discourage new
        > events either and would like to keep the organization simple.
        >
        > Over the past few years we have reorganized the classes at Mowind
        > events to reflect different participation. We combined some and
        > introduced others. Currently we have three levels:
        >
        > A Fleet (advanced, usually completes two laps)
        > Open
        > Limited 8.5
        > Hybrid
        > Formula
        > Women
        >
        > Sport Fleet (Intermediate, One lap)
        > Men
        > Women
        >
        > Workshop Fleet (Short course, startline assistance)
        > Men
        > Women
        > Junior
        > Senior
        >
        > Most race directors have used the Mowind classes, and that
        facilitated
        > adding the scores to the season totals. In addition to providing
        > insurance, a purpose of Mowind is to provide standard rules and
        > scoring for windsurfing events.
        >
        > Our current scoring system is the Mowind Hi-point system. Hi-point
        > systems are prefferred for a series since they can simply be added
        > together. Lo-point systems need to be converted and the process is
        > not always simple. The Mowind system awards 1 point for starting, 1
        > for finishing, and 1 for each racer beaten. Traditionally, DNF has
        > been given only 1 point. There has been much discussion over the
        year
        > of what to award DNF or to differentiate reasons since there are
        many
        > reasons for DNF. In the Nationals this year, a time limit caused
        many
        > racers to receive a DNF and they voiced an objection to only
        getting 1
        > point since they actually did complete the course. No changes have
        > yet been made and this is still open for discussion. In order to
        > speed up the scoring process I have developed an Excel spreadsheet
        > that has worked well though it still has many limitations. Anyone
        > interested in making revisions is welcome to have a go at it.
        >
        > This year in addition to the Yahoo discussion group, we added a Web
        > page at Mowind.org. Lots of work by Scott Haas and Ulf Jentler
        > resulted in a great place for posting schedules, scores, pictures,
        and
        > event summaries. Anyone involved in event planning should be able
        to
        > keep their events updated. Contact Scott to register with the site
        or
        > at least provide links your event site.
        >
        > Also listed on the web page are the names of Mowind officers and
        > committee members. To my knowledge we have had little committee
        > activity this year. If we are going to have committees, then
        > committee members should be communicating throughout the year.
        > Many of us including myself falsely believe that we will have more
        > time later. Reflecting on the past year, however, I realize that at
        > many events I hardly had time to talk to people, and I felt like I
        was
        > constantly running around. This reinforces my belief that Mowind
        > should maintain the simplest structure it can, so we can be busy
        > having fun and visiting, rather than doing administrative
        activities.
        > For this year we have the following people and positions.
        >
        > * President: Dr. Jack Wiley
        > * VP/Secretary: Ulf Jentler
        > * Treasurer: Craig Bergh
        > * Scorer: Jack Wiley, Jeff Koeberl
        > * News: Scott Haas
        >
        > * Calendar: Jeff Adamski, Craig Bergh
        > * Scoring/Rules: Jeff Adamski, Arnie Cleveland, Larry Reed,
        Kevin
        > Gratton
        > * Awards: Larry Reed, Ulf Jentler, Woody, Don Altmeyer
        > * Sponsorships/Raffle: Rod Clevenger, Kevin Gratton, Mike, Ulf
        Jentler
        > * Forum and Web: Arden Anderson , Ulf Jentler, Scott Haas
        >
        > We should discuss what committees we want for this year as well as
        > hear from those who want to be involved. At this time I would also
        > like to solicit nominations for officers, particularly President,
        and
        > Vice President. I myself (Jack) am not going to be president next
        > year and Ulf has left the country for a while. Perhaps it would be
        a
        > good time to determine what the president is actually supposed to
        do.
        >
        > There have been several ideas this year regarding fundraising and we
        > should discuss what we think is appropriate, keeping in mind the
        > amount of time involved. There has been some discussion of printing
        > up Mowind shirts and stickers. I also tried out a project myself
        this
        > year with lanyards though it may have been too ambitious.
        > My idea was to provide all Mowind Members with Mowind Lanyards and
        an
        > ID card. I put together a template for ID cards, but the main
        hurdle
        > was getting individual pictures. I was hoping to be able to get
        those
        > at events but found I had little time to get it done. I posted on
        the
        > web page that people could email me their picture for a free ID
        card,
        > however I got no responses. I have since come to realize that the
        > Mowind web page is great for checking schedules and scores, but not
        > for engaging participants in new activities. We have a raffle going
        > as well though it got a late start this year. Tickets have been for
        > sale at some events as well as on the web page. Sales at the events
        > were good while those from the web page were low. We need to figure
        > out what fundraisers are worth doing and what is a good way of
        doing them.
        >
        > Please Take some time to think about the issues important to you and
        > whether you think Mowind is headed in the right direction. Using
        this
        > format for a discussion will allow interested members to digest
        > information and reply on their own time. We will schedule a
        > conference call Mid December. A tentative date is Sat. Dec. 20th at
        > 8:00 central time.
        >
        > Thank you for taking the time to read this and contributing to
        Mowind.
        >
      • a c
        Hi All, Started working on 2009 Calender. Using Fleet Farm print calender that lists dates to 2012 .From 2008 Mowind , kept same wknd. Ex:  Alum Creek 
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 28, 2008
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          Hi All, Started working on 2009 Calender. Using Fleet Farm print calender that lists dates to 2012 .From 2008 Mowind , kept same wknd. Ex:  Alum Creek  (2008)  May 3-4 , now (2009) May 2-3 .    Arnie

          --- On Thu, 11/27/08, Scott Haas <shaas@...> wrote:
          From: Scott Haas <shaas@...>
          Subject: [mowind] Re: 2009 Upcoming Season Discussion and conference call
          To: mowind@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 9:42 AM


          I'm willing to do MOWIND.org Web site maintenance and reporting on
          OH and MI events again in 2009.

          Needed is a team from WI and MN to BLOG/report on events in that
          region. Ideally a small pre-event post and a followup post with a
          pic or two and link to results is all that is needed.

          Also a set of event pages were established on the Mowind.org site.
          Ideally an event page is generic in content and points to an official
          event Web site. However if an organizer wants to maintain it, they
          can place detailed information on the page. Those that have posted
          specific 2008 info please change where appropriate to note 2009 or
          tentative dates.

          A couple weeks ago I updated the WordPress blogging software to the
          latest version 2.6.3 so that shouldn't have to be done again until
          next Nov.

          Also I installed for trial a simple event calendar list program that
          is integrated in with the WordPress software. Whoever puts together
          the calendar in 2009 can decide if they want to use that or not. I
          believe it will simplify the work involved greatly. The Webmaster
          has already had two queries from people wanting to know 2009 event
          dates.

          The InterLake Yatching Association is to sailing much like the MOWIND
          is to windsurfing in this region. The I-LYA of course can draw
          support from the 100 member clubs or so around the Great Lakes.
          They have a Web page listing their purposes and accomplishments. I'm
          not saying MOWIND needs to be more than it is now. The I-LYA list is
          just food for thought and ideas.
          see http://i-lya. com/About/ about.html

          Scott - #H

          --- In mowind@yahoogroups. com, "Jack" <drjacksonwiley@ ...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Mowind members,
          >
          > Now that the water is freezing over it is time to get ready for the
          > next year of windsurfing. The purpose of this discussion is to
          > determine what is important to Mowind for the next year. In a few
          > weeks in December (12-20-08, 8:00?), any interested members will
          have
          > a conference call and decide on the items discussed here.
          >
          > Important topics that come to mind are:
          >
          > Insurance
          > Classes and Fleets
          > Scoring
          > Web Page
          > Officers and Committees
          > Scheduling
          > Fundraising
          > Mowind Merchandise
          >
          > Feel free to comment or introduce you own topic if you think it is
          > important.
          >
          > I would like to summarize the past year and address some of the
          issues
          > from my personal experience as Mowind President.
          > Most importantly, we had a successful race season. The Mowind Race
          > series scored 15 races with an average attendance of 25,
          > and 75 racers attended more than one event. 29 racers attended more
          > than 4 events. I have listed 110 current Mowind members in the
          database.
          >
          > In general, race directors were prompt in confirming event dates,
          and
          > submitting their insurance payments and scores. This reflects the
          > main purpose of Mowind, that is to provide regatta insurance for
          races
          > in our region. By doing so we can ensure that Mowind members and
          > directors are protected from liability and split the cost among the
          > events. If you would like to become more familiar with our coverage
          > please see this link
          > http://www.david- agency.com/ signal/index. htm#Regatta% 20Liability%
          20Insurance
          > We maintain both Regatta Liability and General Liability. For the
          > most part our organization is covered against anything, however
          there
          > are some exceptions. One major exception is the activity of
          > Kiteboarding, and that has led to some controversial decisions made
          by
          > me over the past year. Please take a moment to read this article
          as well:
          > http://www.scka. org/kitesuit. htm
          > Last year we entered new territory when Kiteboarding was included in
          > The Crossing. As incoming president I was presented with different
          > information regarding our insurance, some of which turned out to be
          > completely false. As a result I called our insurance agent to get
          my
          > questions answered. After that I decided to remove from the
          schedule
          > any events that included kiteboarding. During the year interested
          > people have been discussing the matter and many suggestions have
          been
          > proposed such as allowing some events to opt out of Mowind insurance
          > and attempting to obtain their own. This brings up other issues of
          > liability since Mowind would need some resources to review any
          > alternative insurance. Additionally, who wants to be responsible
          for
          > making these decisions? I consider this extremely important since
          > our insurance covers every Mowind member and volunteer, not just
          those
          > that make the decisions.
          >
          > This issue also brought up the idea of a "sanctioned" event.
          > Currently all that is required to be a Mowind event is to pay dues
          for
          > insurance and choose a time and place.
          >
          > There has been some discussion over the year of limiting the number
          of
          > events in order to encourage a larger attendance at fewer events.
          > This is based on the idea that participation was lower this year due
          > to higher gas prices. When comparing participation to last year
          > however, the numbers are approximately the same, with an event
          average
          > attendance of 22 for 2007. Two major points are that race directors
          > invest enough time and effort in their events that there shouldn't
          be
          > a limit on the number of events. We don't want to discourage new
          > events either and would like to keep the organization simple.
          >
          > Over the past few years we have reorganized the classes at Mowind
          > events to reflect different participation. We combined some and
          > introduced others. Currently we have three levels:
          >
          > A Fleet (advanced, usually completes two laps)
          > Open
          > Limited 8.5
          > Hybrid
          > Formula
          > Women
          >
          > Sport Fleet (Intermediate, One lap)
          > Men
          > Women
          >
          > Workshop Fleet (Short course, startline assistance)
          > Men
          > Women
          > Junior
          > Senior
          >
          > Most race directors have used the Mowind classes, and that
          facilitated
          > adding the scores to the season totals. In addition to providing
          > insurance, a purpose of Mowind is to provide standard rules and
          > scoring for windsurfing events.
          >
          > Our current scoring system is the Mowind Hi-point system. Hi-point
          > systems are prefferred for a series since they can simply be added
          > together. Lo-point systems need to be converted and the process is
          > not always simple. The Mowind system awards 1 point for starting, 1
          > for finishing, and 1 for each racer beaten. Traditionally, DNF has
          > been given only 1 point. There has been much discussion over the
          year
          > of what to award DNF or to differentiate reasons since there are
          many
          > reasons for DNF. In the Nationals this year, a time limit caused
          many
          > racers to receive a DNF and they voiced an objection to only
          getting 1
          > point since they actually did complete the course. No changes have
          > yet been made and this is still open for discussion. In order to
          > speed up the scoring process I have developed an Excel spreadsheet
          > that has worked well though it still has many limitations. Anyone
          > interested in making revisions is welcome to have a go at it.
          >
          > This year in addition to the Yahoo discussion group, we added a Web
          > page at Mowind.org. Lots of work by Scott Haas and Ulf Jentler
          > resulted in a great place for posting schedules, scores, pictures,
          and
          > event summaries. Anyone involved in event planning should be able
          to
          > keep their events updated. Contact Scott to register with the site
          or
          > at least provide links your event site.
          >
          > Also listed on the web page are the names of Mowind officers and
          > committee members. To my knowledge we have had little committee
          > activity this year. If we are going to have committees, then
          > committee members should be communicating throughout the year.
          > Many of us including myself falsely believe that we will have more
          > time later. Reflecting on the past year, however, I realize that at
          > many events I hardly had time to talk to people, and I felt like I
          was
          > constantly running around. This reinforces my belief that Mowind
          > should maintain the simplest structure it can, so we can be busy
          > having fun and visiting, rather than doing administrative
          activities.
          > For this year we have the following people and positions.
          >
          > * President: Dr. Jack Wiley
          > * VP/Secretary: Ulf Jentler
          > * Treasurer: Craig Bergh
          > * Scorer: Jack Wiley, Jeff Koeberl
          > * News: Scott Haas
          >
          > * Calendar: Jeff Adamski, Craig Bergh
          > * Scoring/Rules: Jeff Adamski, Arnie Cleveland, Larry Reed,
          Kevin
          > Gratton
          > * Awards: Larry Reed, Ulf Jentler, Woody, Don Altmeyer
          > * Sponsorships/ Raffle: Rod Clevenger, Kevin Gratton, Mike, Ulf
          Jentler
          > * Forum and Web: Arden Anderson , Ulf Jentler, Scott Haas
          >
          > We should discuss what committees we want for this year as well as
          > hear from those who want to be involved. At this time I would also
          > like to solicit nominations for officers, particularly President,
          and
          > Vice President. I myself (Jack) am not going to be president next
          > year and Ulf has left the country for a while. Perhaps it would be
          a
          > good time to determine what the president is actually supposed to
          do.
          >
          > There have been several ideas this year regarding fundraising and we
          > should discuss what we think is appropriate, keeping in mind the
          > amount of time involved. There has been some discussion of printing
          > up Mowind shirts and stickers. I also tried out a project myself
          this
          > year with lanyards though it may have been too ambitious.
          > My idea was to provide all Mowind Members with Mowind Lanyards and
          an
          > ID card. I put together a template for ID cards, but the main
          hurdle
          > was getting individual pictures. I was hoping to be able to get
          those
          > at events but found I had little time to get it done. I posted on
          the
          > web page that people could email me their picture for a free ID
          card,
          > however I got no responses. I have since come to realize that the
          > Mowind web page is great for checking schedules and scores, but not
          > for engaging participants in new activities. We have a raffle going
          > as well though it got a late start this year. Tickets have been for
          > sale at some events as well as on the web page. Sales at the events
          > were good while those from the web page were low. We need to figure
          > out what fundraisers are worth doing and what is a good way of
          doing them.
          >
          > Please Take some time to think about the issues important to you and
          > whether you think Mowind is headed in the right direction. Using
          this
          > format for a discussion will allow interested members to digest
          > information and reply on their own time. We will schedule a
          > conference call Mid December. A tentative date is Sat. Dec. 20th at
          > 8:00 central time.
          >
          > Thank you for taking the time to read this and contributing to
          Mowind.
          >


        • Jeff & Bonnie Koeberl
          I have to agree with Woody. RC should balance needs of fleets and objectives of the event. If people are coming to an event because they expect a lot of
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 30, 2008
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            I have to agree with Woody. RC should balance needs of fleets and
            objectives of the event. If people are coming to an event because
            they expect a lot of racing with strong competition, RC can specify in
            NOR the time limits. For a more laid back event, NOR can again let
            the competitors know what to expect.

            Having said that, I thought we agreed last year that it was within the
            descretion of the RC to end a race with a couple stragglers on the
            water recording their relative race position and not holding them to
            DNF. It isn't that hard, when someone is struggling, to notify them
            that their finish has been recorded - and if there are a couple simply
            choose one of the marks.

            --- In mowind@yahoogroups.com, Brad Woodworth <windsurfwoody@...>
            wrote:

            > I think the finish should be ultimately be left to the discretion of
            the RC.
          • Brad Woodworth
            Hey everybody, I think going forward we need to have an AGM at Kevin s Windpower Regatta (1st event of the new race season) to elect officers and have
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 30, 2008
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              Hey everybody,
               
              I think going forward we need to have an AGM at Kevin's Windpower Regatta (1st event of the new race season) to elect officers and have discussion about issues for the coming season. Most everybody that is an active part of the MOWIND executive is usually in attendance at Kevin's regatta, so this would be an ideal time to have an AGM. Also, by attending an AGM in person, it is more effective for discussion than by phone with my experience.
               
              Woody
               
               
               

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Jack <drjacksonwiley@...>
              Date: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:18 pm
              Subject: [mowind] 2009 Upcoming Season Discussion and conference call
              To: mowind@yahoogroups.com

              > Hello Mowind members,
              >
              > Now that the water is freezing over it is time to get ready for the
              > next year of windsurfing.  The purpose of this discussion
              > is to
              > determine what is important to Mowind for the next year. 
              > In a few
              > weeks in December (12-20-08, 8:00?), any interested members will have
              > a conference call and decide on the items discussed here.
              >
              > Important topics that come to mind are:
              >
              > Insurance
              > Classes and Fleets
              > Scoring
              > Web Page
              > Officers and Committees
              > Scheduling
              > Fundraising
              > Mowind Merchandise
              >
              > Feel free to comment or introduce you own topic if you think it is
              > important.
              >
              > I would like to summarize the past year and address some of the issues
              > from my personal experience as Mowind President. 
              > Most importantly, we had a successful race season.  The
              > Mowind Race
              > series scored 15 races with an average attendance of 25, 
              > and 75 racers attended more than one event.  29 racers
              > attended more
              > than 4 events. I have listed 110 current Mowind members in the
              > database.
              > In general, race directors were prompt in confirming event
              > dates, and
              > submitting their insurance payments and scores.  This
              > reflects the
              > main purpose of Mowind, that is to provide regatta insurance for races
              > in our region.  By doing so we can ensure that Mowind
              > members and
              > directors are protected from liability and split the cost among the
              > events.  If you would like to become more familiar with our
              > coverageplease see this link 
              > http://www.david-
              > agency.com/signal/index.htm#Regatta%20Liability%20InsuranceWe
              > maintain both Regatta Liability and General Liability.  For the
              > most part our organization is covered against anything, however there
              > are some exceptions.  One major exception is the activity of
              > Kiteboarding, and that has led to some controversial decisions
              > made by
              > me over the past year.  Please take a moment to read this
              > article as well:
              > http://www.scka.org/kitesuit.htm
              > Last year we entered new territory when Kiteboarding was
              > included in
              > The Crossing.  As incoming president I was presented with
              > differentinformation regarding our insurance, some of which
              > turned out to be
              > completely false.  As a result I called our insurance agent
              > to get my
              > questions answered.  After that I decided to remove from
              > the schedule
              > any events that included kiteboarding.  During the year
              > interested 
              > people have been discussing the matter and many suggestions have been
              > proposed such as allowing some events to opt out of Mowind insurance
              > and attempting to obtain their own.  This brings up other
              > issues of
              > liability since Mowind would need some resources to review any
              > alternative insurance.  Additionally, who wants to be
              > responsible for
              > making these decisions?  I consider this extremely
              > important since 
              > our insurance covers every Mowind member and volunteer, not just those
              > that make the decisions.
              >
              > This issue also brought up the idea of a "sanctioned" event.
              > Currently all that is required to be a Mowind event is to pay
              > dues for
              > insurance and choose a time and place. 
              >
              > There has been some discussion over the year of limiting the
              > number of
              > events in order to encourage a larger attendance at fewer
              > events.
              > This is based on the idea that participation was lower this year due
              > to higher gas prices.  When comparing participation to last year
              > however, the numbers are approximately the same, with an event average
              > attendance of 22 for 2007.  Two major points are that race
              > directorsinvest enough time and effort in their events that
              > there shouldn't be
              > a limit on the number of events.  We don't want to
              > discourage new
              > events either and would like to keep the organization simple.
              >
              > Over the past few years we have reorganized the classes at Mowind
              > events to reflect different participation.  We combined
              > some and
              > introduced others.  Currently we have three levels:
              >
              > A Fleet (advanced, usually completes two laps)
              > Open
              > Limited 8.5
              > Hybrid
              > Formula
              > Women
              >
              > Sport Fleet (Intermediate, One lap)
              > Men
              > Women
              >
              > Workshop Fleet (Short course, startline assistance)
              > Men
              > Women
              > Junior
              > Senior
              >
              > Most race directors have used the Mowind classes, and that facilitated
              > adding the scores to the season totals.  In addition to providing
              > insurance, a purpose of Mowind is to provide standard rules and
              > scoring for windsurfing events.
              >
              > Our current scoring system is the Mowind Hi-point system. 
              > Hi-point
              > systems are prefferred for a series since they can simply be added
              > together.  Lo-point systems need to be converted and the
              > process is
              > not always simple.  The Mowind system awards 1 point for
              > starting, 1
              > for finishing, and 1 for each racer beaten.  Traditionally,
              > DNF has
              > been given only 1 point.  There has been much discussion
              > over the year
              > of what to award DNF or to differentiate reasons since there are many
              > reasons for DNF. In the Nationals this year, a time limit caused many
              > racers to receive a DNF and they voiced an objection to only
              > getting 1
              > point since they actually did complete the course.  No
              > changes have
              > yet been made and this is still open for discussion.  In
              > order to
              > speed up the scoring process I have developed an Excel spreadsheet
              > that has worked well though it still has many limitations. 
              > Anyoneinterested in making revisions is welcome to have a go at it.
              >
              > This year in addition to the Yahoo discussion group, we added a Web
              > page at Mowind.org.  Lots of work by Scott Haas and Ulf Jentler
              > resulted in a great place for posting schedules, scores,
              > pictures, and
              > event summaries.  Anyone involved in event planning should
              > be able to
              > keep their events updated.  Contact Scott to register with
              > the site or
              > at least provide links your event site.
              >
              > Also listed on the web page are the names of Mowind officers and
              > committee members.  To my knowledge we have had little committee
              > activity this year.  If we are going to have committees, then
              > committee members should be communicating throughout the
              > year. 
              > Many of us including myself falsely believe that we will have more
              > time later.  Reflecting on the past year, however, I
              > realize that at
              > many events I hardly had time to talk to people, and I felt like
              > I was
              > constantly running around.  This reinforces my belief that Mowind
              > should maintain the simplest structure it can, so we can be busy
              > having fun and visiting, rather than doing administrative activities.
              > For this year we have the following people and positions.
              >
              >     * President: Dr. Jack Wiley
              >     * VP/Secretary: Ulf Jentler
              >     * Treasurer: Craig Bergh
              >     * Scorer: Jack Wiley, Jeff Koeberl
              >     * News: Scott Haas
              >
              >     * Calendar: Jeff Adamski, Craig Bergh
              >     * Scoring/Rules: Jeff Adamski, Arnie
              > Cleveland, Larry Reed, Kevin
              > Gratton
              >     * Awards: Larry Reed, Ulf Jentler, Woody, Don
              > Altmeyer    * Sponsorships/Raffle: Rod Clevenger,
              > Kevin Gratton, Mike, Ulf Jentler
              >     * Forum and Web: Arden Anderson , Ulf
              > Jentler, Scott Haas
              >
              > We should discuss what committees we want for this year as well as
              > hear from those who want to be involved.  At this time I
              > would also
              > like to solicit nominations for officers, particularly
              > President, and
              > Vice President.  I myself (Jack) am not going to be
              > president next
              > year and Ulf has left the country for a while.  Perhaps it
              > would be a
              > good time to determine what the president is actually supposed
              > to do.
              >
              > There have been several ideas this year regarding fundraising
              > and we
              > should discuss what we think is appropriate, keeping in mind the
              > amount of time involved.  There has been some discussion of
              > printingup Mowind shirts and stickers.  I also tried out a
              > project myself this
              > year with lanyards though it may have been too
              > ambitious.  
              > My idea was to provide all Mowind Members with Mowind Lanyards
              > and an
              > ID card.  I put together a template for ID cards, but the
              > main hurdle
              > was getting individual pictures.  I was hoping to be able
              > to get those
              > at events but found I had little time to get it done.  I
              > posted on the
              > web page that people could email me their picture for a free ID card,
              > however I got no responses.  I have since come to realize
              > that the
              > Mowind web page is great for checking schedules and scores, but not
              > for engaging participants in new activities.  We have a
              > raffle going
              > as well though it got a late start this year.  Tickets have
              > been for
              > sale at some events as well as on the web page.  Sales at
              > the events
              > were good while those from the web page were low.  We need
              > to figure
              > out what fundraisers are worth doing and what is a good way of
              > doing them.
              >
              > Please Take some time to think about the issues important to you and
              > whether you think Mowind is headed in the right direction. 
              > Using this
              > format for a discussion will allow interested members to digest
              > information and reply on their own time.  We will schedule a
              > conference call Mid December.  A tentative date is Sat.
              > Dec. 20th at
              > 8:00 central time.
              >
              > Thank you for taking the time to read this and contributing to Mowind.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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