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Re: [movaznaustva] "kaljady"

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  • Siarhiej Dabrahost
    ... 1. Oh, they do!!! Soviet dialect is the only language Belorusians use... 2. Polish kol,eda doesn t mean the same as belurusian kalady . Kalady I would
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 2, 2001
      > do belarusian-speakers actually use this soviet dialect nowadays
      > or does it just exist on paper?

      1. Oh, they do!!! "Soviet" dialect is the only language Belorusians use...
      2. Polish "kol,eda" doesn't mean the same as belurusian "kalady". Kalady I
      would translate into Polish as "S'wie,ta Boz'ego Narodzenia".
      ----
      Siarhiej Dabrahost
      chalaviek@...
    • ciotkaliona@yahoo.com
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      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 3, 2001
        > > do belarusian-speakers actually use this soviet dialect nowadays
        > > or does it just exist on paper?
        > 1. Oh, they do!!! "Soviet" dialect is the only language Belorusians
        use...

        Not exactly true, Belarusans use 'trasianka' which is a mix of languages.
        "Soviet" Belarusan language is a Russified version of the language. It has
        different spelling rules as well as many Belarusan words are replaced by
        Russian words and the pronounciation adjusted.

        > 2. Polish "kol,eda" doesn't mean the same as belurusian "kalady". Kalady
        I
        > would translate into Polish as "S'wie,ta Boz'ego Narodzenia".

        "Kalady" is a pagan holiday not to be mixed with Christ's Birth which is
        "Raz^astvo". So you are not right on this point.

        > ----
        > Siarhiej Dabrahost
        > chalaviek@...

        Yours faithfully, Ciotka Liona


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      • uladzik@yahoo.com
        ... which is Raz^astvo . So you are not right on this point. Ciotka Liona, nia blytajcie narod! 1) Kalady, jak u amal usich astatnich slavianskich movach,
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 3, 2001
          > "Kalady" is a pagan holiday not to be mixed with Christ's Birth
          which is
          "Raz^astvo". So you are not right on this point.


          Ciotka Liona, nia blytajcie narod!

          1) Kalady, jak u amal usich astatnich slavianskich movach, liczycca
          sviatam narodzinau Chrysta - 25 snieznia, chacia i maje druhoje
          znaczennie jak paganskaje sviata.

          2) "Raz^astvo", IMHO, smiardziuczaja (and vomit-provoking) kalka z
          rasiejskaj, jakuju mozna pabaczyc adno u bielaruskich pierakladach
          RPC. Fieee...
        • ciotkaliona@yahoo.com
          Chto blytaje narod, prosta trebna viedac svaju kulturu. Kali ty lic^ys^ s^to Kalady heta Naradz^en nie Chrysta dyk pryc^ym tady kaladavan nie dy i kaza z
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 3, 2001
            Chto blytaje narod, prosta trebna viedac' svaju kulturu. Kali ty lic^ys^
            s^to Kalady heta Naradz^en'nie Chrysta dyk pryc^ym tady kaladavan'nie dy i
            kaza z' miadz'viedziam.
            Kalada byu boham sonca i jano s'viatkavalasia na zimovaje soncastajan'nie,
            jakoje 22-ha s'niez^nia. Ludzi kaladavali, rabili vobrazy kazla,
            miadz'viedzia i busla, usie hetyja zyvioly byli symbalami. Napryklad
            Kaza/Kaziol byli duchami uradz^aju.

            U ciapieras^nija dni ludzi nia viedajuc' roz'nicy pamiz Kaladami i
            Naradz^en'niem Chrysta, hedak z^a jany ni viedajuc' roz'nicy pamiz^
            rasiejskaj i bielaruskaj movami, i razmaulajuc' na trasiancy. Kali ty ,
            Uladzik, choc^as^ bolej daviedacca pra pahan'skija s'viaty pac^ytaj kniz^ku
            Kastusia Tarasava, "Bielarus, histaryc^naje padaroz^z^a dla dziaciej."

            >>1) Kalady, jak u amal usich astatnich slavianskich movach, liczycca
            sviatam narodzinau Chrysta - 25 snieznia, chacia i maje druhoje
            znaczennie jak paganskaje sviata.

            >>2) "Raz^astvo", IMHO, smiardziuczaja (and vomit-provoking) kalka z
            rasiejskaj, jakuju mozna pabaczyc adno u bielaruskich pierakladach
            RPC. Fieee...


            Z pavahaj, Ciotka Liona



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          • Daniel Mealha Cabrita
            ... did trasianka appeared in the soviet times or is it even older than that? AFAIK the old Nas^a Niva journal was written differently from this
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 3, 2001
              > > > do belarusian-speakers actually use this soviet dialect nowadays
              > > > or does it just exist on paper?
              > > 1. Oh, they do!!! "Soviet" dialect is the only language Belorusians
              > use...
              >
              > Not exactly true, Belarusans use 'trasianka' which is a mix of languages.
              > "Soviet" Belarusan language is a Russified version of the language. It has
              > different spelling rules as well as many Belarusan words are replaced by
              > Russian words and the pronounciation adjusted.

              did trasianka appeared in the soviet times or is it even older than
              that?

              AFAIK the old "Nas^a Niva" journal was written differently from
              this "trasianka".. AND that language was already a "deteriorated"
              form of belarusian language (compared to the one used in the
              times of GDL).

              anyone could comment on this?

              > > 2. Polish "kol,eda" doesn't mean the same as belurusian "kalady". Kalady
              > I
              > > would translate into Polish as "S'wie,ta Boz'ego Narodzenia".
              >
              > "Kalady" is a pagan holiday not to be mixed with Christ's Birth which is
              > "Raz^astvo". So you are not right on this point.

              well.. i just know the polish meaning, but perhaps you both are
              correct.

              it might be that "kalady" (or "kaljady"?) originally meant only the
              pagan holiday.
              but it was adapted after Christianism to be the equivalent for
              Christmas (much like as happened to other pagan stuff such as the
              painted eggs, etc).



              .dan
            • uladzik
              Ciotku! Ci vy prapanujecie viarnucca 1000 hadou nazad?!? Kali u nas (dy inszych slavianskich movach) Kalady dauno stalisia terminam, jaki aznaczaje X-Mas. Heta
              Message 6 of 12 , Dec 5, 2001
                Ciotku!

                Ci vy prapanujecie viarnucca 1000 hadou nazad?!?

                Kali u nas (dy inszych slavianskich movach) Kalady dauno stalisia
                terminam, jaki aznaczaje X-Mas. Heta POPULAR USAGE, heta realnaje
                zyccio - tak ludzi uzyvajuca heta slova.

                Ja zauvazyu, szto aposznim czasam u anhielskaj litaratury pieravazaje
                dumka, szto lubaja gramatyka music byc DESCRIPTIVE (apisalnaj). To
                bok, kali ludzi czymsci karystajucca, to heta SLUSZNA pavodle
                definicyj. Ja calkam zhodny z takim pohladam na movu.

                PS. Ja asabista viedaju i pra miadzviedzia, i pra kazu, i pra kazla
                (i pra Guslara, i Huslarza, he-he-he i jaszcze usialakich
                inszych "urednych" typczykau)
              • ciotkaliona@yahoo.com
                hello everyone, i guess by now everyone is clear about what kalady means in belarusan. Polish koleda has a totally different meaning, actually two
                Message 7 of 12 , Dec 6, 2001
                  hello everyone,
                  i guess by now everyone is clear about what 'kalady' means in belarusan.
                  Polish 'koleda' has a totally different meaning, actually two meanings.

                  first and main meaning = Christmas carol (special songs for this season )
                  second meaning = it is a custom in Roman Catholic Church, that a local
                  priest in season before Christmas (and lately after too) is visiting his
                  "sheeps" at their houses, with "oplatek" -the white wafer we will have at
                  Christmas Eve Supper ( and collects money offerings too) It is named "
                  chodzenie po koledzie "

                  yours faithfully, ciotka Liona
                  ---------------------------------
                  pryvitan'nie spadarstvu,
                  zdecca my uz^o vyras^yli s^to slova 'kalady' aznac^aje pa-bielarusku.
                  Poslkjaje slova 'koleda' maje zusim ins^aje znac^en'nie. 'Koleda' heta
                  kaladnaja pies'nia ci kaladka, taksama 'chodzenie po koledzie' heta
                  tradycyja jakaja adbyvajecca pierad i c^asam pas'la Rastva, kali Katalicki
                  ksiondz chodzic' pa chatach, vin's^uje ludziej i taksama z'biraje padan'ni.

                  z pavahaj, ciotka Liona

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Daniel Mealha Cabrita [mailto:dancab@...]
                  Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 7:41 AM
                  To: movaznaustva@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [movaznaustva] "kaljady"



                  hi there


                  still a month to Christmas.. i remember i saw somewhere that
                  "kole,dy" (in polish) is "kaljady" in belarusian.

                  is this "kaljady" according to the traditional belarusian
                  orthography or is this the "sovietized" way? (i don't know which
                  changes were applied to belarusian language in soviet times)
                  anyone could comment on this?


                  .dan





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                • Siarhiej Dabrahost
                  ... Tady treba uzhyvac toj varyjant bielaruskaj movy, jaki nazyvajuc narkomaukaj ? Ci navat zpisac hramatyku trasianki ? Bo tyja movy uzhyvajucca ludz mi,
                  Message 8 of 12 , Dec 6, 2001
                    > Ja zauvazyu, szto aposznim czasam u anhielskaj litaratury pieravazaje
                    > dumka, szto lubaja gramatyka music byc DESCRIPTIVE (apisalnaj). To
                    > bok, kali ludzi czymsci karystajucca, to heta SLUSZNA pavodle
                    > definicyj. Ja calkam zhodny z takim pohladam na movu.

                    Tady treba uzhyvac toj varyjant bielaruskaj movy, jaki nazyvajuc'
                    "narkomaukaj"? Ci navat zpisac hramatyku "trasianki"? Bo tyja movy
                    uzhyvajucca ludz'mi, navat douha (choc mala).

                    Ja asabista, kali niechta mnie zadaje hetkija pytan'ni, adkazvaju, szto
                    "narkomauku" dy "trasianku" nielha paraunac da suczasnaj, napryklad,
                    angielskaj movy (a staruju biel. movu da ang. movy Sze(a)kspira). Bo
                    suczasnaja angielskaja mova razvivalasia pavoli, sama. A narkomauka - heta
                    dziciatka hvaltu nad movaj.

                    A jak jaszcze (bolsz hruntouna) heta arhumentacvac?
                    -----
                    Siarhiej Dabrahost.
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