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Forward stay on a 1968 Morgan 30

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  • rlboats2008
    I have a Morgan 30 hull 115, that has the 3 stay configuration for each side configuration with 2 amidships and on forward about 2 feet. The time has come for
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 7, 2011
      I have a Morgan 30 hull 115, that has the 3 stay configuration for each side configuration with 2 amidships and on forward about 2 feet. The time has come for new sails and the recommendation was by the sailmaker was to relace the 140 that I have with a new on (also have roller furling) and to stop the cover portion of the sail from getting hung up and dug into during a tack remove the forward stay on each side when the mast is put back up on to the boat.

      Is this a good decesion to remove the stay frome each side of leave it alone and go forward and help the sail through. I am in the process of doing her 43 year old refit and just want to have things right because I not going to paint and rebuild the boat again in my lifetime.

      Thanks for the inputs I have saved many and the one on the centerboard rebuild a couple of years ago was excelletnt.

      Happiness,
      Rich
    • Merlin Clark
      If I m understanding your set up it s like that on my 24 with one set of uppers and two sets of lowers on each side? If so, seems to me that removing the
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 7, 2011
        If I'm understanding your set up it's like that on my 24 with one set of uppers and two sets of lowers on each side?
        If so, seems to me that removing the forward lowers would allow the aft lowers to cause the mast to bend with an arc to the rear of the boat. Like a elongated "C" and this would cause the mast to fold up and break when stressed by loads from the sails and seas. Regular aluminum mast can only take the loads expected when supported by the stays and shrouds. 
        Is he proposing anything to compensate for the loss of the structural support from the forward lowers?
        I know of at least one rigger/sailmaker, personally, that has handed out horrible advice and caused his customers severe headaches. This guy seems to augment his income by causing problems and then charging his customers to "fix" the problems he caused.
        I'd ask for your riggers proposal in writing and if it still sounds wrong I'd find another rigger. 
        If something like this sounds wrong it probably is and obviously this failed your "sniff test"!

        From: rlboats2008 <rlboats2008@...>
        To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, November 7, 2011 6:19 AM
        Subject: [morganowners] Forward stay on a 1968 Morgan 30

         
        I have a Morgan 30 hull 115, that has the 3 stay configuration for each side configuration with 2 amidships and on forward about 2 feet. The time has come for new sails and the recommendation was by the sailmaker was to relace the 140 that I have with a new on (also have roller furling) and to stop the cover portion of the sail from getting hung up and dug into during a tack remove the forward stay on each side when the mast is put back up on to the boat.

        Is this a good decesion to remove the stay frome each side of leave it alone and go forward and help the sail through. I am in the process of doing her 43 year old refit and just want to have things right because I not going to paint and rebuild the boat again in my lifetime.

        Thanks for the inputs I have saved many and the one on the centerboard rebuild a couple of years ago was excelletnt.

        Happiness,
        Rich



      • J gordon
        I also have a 1968 Morgan 30 with the two sets of shrouds. My big genny also get hung up in the the forward shroud or at times even the spreaders. I would not
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 7, 2011
          I also have a 1968 Morgan 30 with the two sets of shrouds. My big genny also get hung up in the the forward shroud or at times even the spreaders. I would not think removing the forward shroud to be a prudent move. A smaller headsail would help. I have roller furling on my boat and love it. Although its not meant to be used for shorting the sail, I can roll it up partially, depending on wind conditions and make the sail more managable.
           
          Jim G.
          SV Allegory II 
           
          J.P. Gordon, Ltd.
          "Distinctive Military Jewelry"
          jgordon@...
          www.militaryjewelry.com
          From: Merlin Clark <merlinuxo@...>
          To: "morganowners@yahoogroups.com" <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, November 7, 2011 9:22 AM
          Subject: Re: [morganowners] Forward stay on a 1968 Morgan 30

           
          If I'm understanding your set up it's like that on my 24 with one set of uppers and two sets of lowers on each side?
          If so, seems to me that removing the forward lowers would allow the aft lowers to cause the mast to bend with an arc to the rear of the boat. Like a elongated "C" and this would cause the mast to fold up and break when stressed by loads from the sails and seas. Regular aluminum mast can only take the loads expected when supported by the stays and shrouds. 
          Is he proposing anything to compensate for the loss of the structural support from the forward lowers?
          I know of at least one rigger/sailmaker, personally, that has handed out horrible advice and caused his customers severe headaches. This guy seems to augment his income by causing problems and then charging his customers to "fix" the problems he caused.
          I'd ask for your riggers proposal in writing and if it still sounds wrong I'd find another rigger. 
          If something like this sounds wrong it probably is and obviously this failed your "sniff test"!

          From: rlboats2008 <rlboats2008@...>
          To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, November 7, 2011 6:19 AM
          Subject: [morganowners] Forward stay on a 1968 Morgan 30

           
          I have a Morgan 30 hull 115, that has the 3 stay configuration for each side configuration with 2 amidships and on forward about 2 feet. The time has come for new sails and the recommendation was by the sailmaker was to relace the 140 that I have with a new on (also have roller furling) and to stop the cover portion of the sail from getting hung up and dug into during a tack remove the forward stay on each side when the mast is put back up on to the boat.

          Is this a good decesion to remove the stay frome each side of leave it alone and go forward and help the sail through. I am in the process of doing her 43 year old refit and just want to have things right because I not going to paint and rebuild the boat again in my lifetime.

          Thanks for the inputs I have saved many and the one on the centerboard rebuild a couple of years ago was excelletnt.

          Happiness,
          Rich





        • Ray Mummery
          I have an M30 and usually use a 155 Genoa. It occasionally hangs up when tacking in light air but I have learned to minimize this through careful handling of
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 7, 2011

            I have an M30 and usually use a 155 Genoa.  It occasionally hangs up when tacking in light air but I have learned to minimize this through careful handling of the jib sheets.  Your rigger is poorly informed to suggest removing 1/3 of the lateral mast support--it is a recipe for disaster.  Using a smaller jib is an option but Charley Morgan told me the boat was designed  to use a large headsail and my experience would confirm that advice.

            Ray Mummery

            Wavedancer  M30

             

            From: morganowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:morganowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J gordon
            Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:10 AM
            To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [morganowners] Forward stay on a 1968 Morgan 30

             

             

            I also have a 1968 Morgan 30 with the two sets of shrouds. My big genny also get hung up in the the forward shroud or at times even the spreaders. I would not think removing the forward shroud to be a prudent move. A smaller headsail would help. I have roller furling on my boat and love it. Although its not meant to be used for shorting the sail, I can roll it up partially, depending on wind conditions and make the sail more managable.

             

            Jim G.

            SV Allegory II 

             

            J.P. Gordon, Ltd.
            "Distinctive Military Jewelry"
            jgordon@...
            www.militaryjewelry.com

            From: Merlin Clark <merlinuxo@...>
            To: "morganowners@yahoogroups.com" <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, November 7, 2011 9:22 AM
            Subject: Re: [morganowners] Forward stay on a 1968 Morgan 30

             

            If I'm understanding your set up it's like that on my 24 with one set of uppers and two sets of lowers on each side?

            If so, seems to me that removing the forward lowers would allow the aft lowers to cause the mast to bend with an arc to the rear of the boat. Like a elongated "C" and this would cause the mast to fold up and break when stressed by loads from the sails and seas. Regular aluminum mast can only take the loads expected when supported by the stays and shrouds. 

            Is he proposing anything to compensate for the loss of the structural support from the forward lowers?

            I know of at least one rigger/sailmaker, personally, that has handed out horrible advice and caused his customers severe headaches. This guy seems to augment his income by causing problems and then charging his customers to "fix" the problems he caused.

            I'd ask for your riggers proposal in writing and if it still sounds wrong I'd find another rigger. 

            If something like this sounds wrong it probably is and obviously this failed your "sniff test"!

             

            From: rlboats2008 <rlboats2008@...>
            To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, November 7, 2011 6:19 AM
            Subject: [morganowners] Forward stay on a 1968 Morgan 30

             

            I have a Morgan 30 hull 115, that has the 3 stay configuration for each side configuration with 2 amidships and on forward about 2 feet. The time has come for new sails and the recommendation was by the sailmaker was to relace the 140 that I have with a new on (also have roller furling) and to stop the cover portion of the sail from getting hung up and dug into during a tack remove the forward stay on each side when the mast is put back up on to the boat.

            Is this a good decesion to remove the stay frome each side of leave it alone and go forward and help the sail through. I am in the process of doing her 43 year old refit and just want to have things right because I not going to paint and rebuild the boat again in my lifetime.

            Thanks for the inputs I have saved many and the one on the centerboard rebuild a couple of years ago was excelletnt.

            Happiness,
            Rich

             

             

          • USNCas@aol.com
            I have a 68 M34, I would not remove a shroud, but recut the sail. ... From: J gordon To: morganowners
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 7, 2011
              I have a 68 M34, I would not remove a shroud, but recut the sail.


              -----Original Message-----
              From: J gordon <oldsalt23@...>
              To: morganowners <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:13 am
              Subject: Re: [morganowners] Forward stay on a 1968 Morgan 30

               
              I also have a 1968 Morgan 30 with the two sets of shrouds. My big genny also get hung up in the the forward shroud or at times even the spreaders. I would not think removing the forward shroud to be a prudent move. A smaller headsail would help. I have roller furling on my boat and love it. Although its not meant to be used for shorting the sail, I can roll it up partially, depending on wind conditions and make the sail more managable.
               
              Jim G.
              SV Allegory II 
               
              J.P. Gordon, Ltd.
              "Distinctive Military Jewelry"
              jgordon@...
              www.militaryjewelry.com
              From: Merlin Clark <merlinuxo@...>
              To: "morganowners@yahoogroups.com" <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, November 7, 2011 9:22 AM
              Subject: Re: [morganowners] Forward stay on a 1968 Morgan 30

               
              If I'm understanding your set up it's like that on my 24 with one set of uppers and two sets of lowers on each side?
              If so, seems to me that removing the forward lowers would allow the aft lowers to cause the mast to bend with an arc to the rear of the boat. Like a elongated "C" and this would cause the mast to fold up and break when stressed by loads from the sails and seas. Regular aluminum mast can only take the loads expected when supported by the stays and shrouds. 
              Is he proposing anything to compensate for the loss of the structural support from the forward lowers?
              I know of at least one rigger/sailmaker, personally, that has handed out horrible advice and caused his customers severe headaches. This guy seems to augment his income by causing problems and then charging his customers to "fix" the problems he caused.
              I'd ask for your riggers proposal in writing and if it still sounds wrong I'd find another rigger. 
              If something like this sounds wrong it probably is and obviously this failed your "sniff test"!

              From: rlboats2008 <rlboats2008@...>
              To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, November 7, 2011 6:19 AM
              Subject: [morganowners] Forward stay on a 1968 Morgan 30

               
              I have a Morgan 30 hull 115, that has the 3 stay configuration for each side configuration with 2 amidships and on forward about 2 feet. The time has come for new sails and the recommendation was by the sailmaker was to relace the 140 that I have with a new on (also have roller furling) and to stop the cover portion of the sail from getting hung up and dug into during a tack remove the forward stay on each side when the mast is put back up on to the boat.

              Is this a good decesion to remove the stay frome each side of leave it alone and go forward and help the sail through. I am in the process of doing her 43 year old refit and just want to have things right because I not going to paint and rebuild the boat again in my lifetime.

              Thanks for the inputs I have saved many and the one on the centerboard rebuild a couple of years ago was excelletnt.

              Happiness,
              Rich





            • BILL ADAMS
              I have a Morgan 30 with a 155 genny. Big sails get caught up on the forward stays occasionally like when someone is not paying attention. This can be solved by
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 8, 2011
                I have a Morgan 30 with a 155 genny. Big sails get caught up on the forward stays occasionally like when someone is not paying attention. This can be solved by careful sail handling and really should not be a problem especially with a 135 or 140 genoa LP. Holding the jib sheet during the tack until the boat has fully crossed to the other side allows the jib to pass cleanly to the other side. 
                I've never heard such bad recommendation from a sailmaker. Charlie Morgan made a lot of serious calculations when he was deciding how to keep the mast up. I'd go with those rather than the musings of a sailmaker looking to sell a genny.


                To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                From: rlboats2008@...
                Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:19:23 +0000
                Subject: [morganowners] Forward stay on a 1968 Morgan 30

                 
                I have a Morgan 30 hull 115, that has the 3 stay configuration for each side configuration with 2 amidships and on forward about 2 feet. The time has come for new sails and the recommendation was by the sailmaker was to relace the 140 that I have with a new on (also have roller furling) and to stop the cover portion of the sail from getting hung up and dug into during a tack remove the forward stay on each side when the mast is put back up on to the boat.

                Is this a good decesion to remove the stay frome each side of leave it alone and go forward and help the sail through. I am in the process of doing her 43 year old refit and just want to have things right because I not going to paint and rebuild the boat again in my lifetime.

                Thanks for the inputs I have saved many and the one on the centerboard rebuild a couple of years ago was excelletnt.

                Happiness,
                Rich


              • John Pascoe
                Hi All, On our Morgan 45 we have four rotating wood dowels around the shrouds, two on each side. They are split in two and held together with plastic tie
                Message 7 of 8 , Nov 8, 2011
                  Hi All,
                  On our Morgan 45 we have four rotating wood dowels around the shrouds, two on each side.
                  They are split in two and held together with plastic tie wraps.
                  As the jib passes over one side to the other the rolling dowels  pass the sail clew and knots etc over quite nicely.



                  Joh and Christine
                  Morgan 45. #12

                  To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                  From: bjadams_44@...
                  Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 17:46:38 -0500
                  Subject: RE: [morganowners] Forward stay on a 1968 Morgan 30

                   
                  I have a Morgan 30 with a 155 genny. Big sails get caught up on the forward stays occasionally like when someone is not paying attention. This can be solved by careful sail handling and really should not be a problem especially with a 135 or 140 genoa LP. Holding the jib sheet during the tack until the boat has fully crossed to the other side allows the jib to pass cleanly to the other side. 
                  I've never heard such bad recommendation from a sailmaker. Charlie Morgan made a lot of serious calculations when he was deciding how to keep the mast up. I'd go with those rather than the musings of a sailmaker looking to sell a genny.


                  To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                  From: rlboats2008@...
                  Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:19:23 +0000
                  Subject: [morganowners] Forward stay on a 1968 Morgan 30

                   
                  I have a Morgan 30 hull 115, that has the 3 stay configuration for each side configuration with 2 amidships and on forward about 2 feet. The time has come for new sails and the recommendation was by the sailmaker was to relace the 140 that I have with a new on (also have roller furling) and to stop the cover portion of the sail from getting hung up and dug into during a tack remove the forward stay on each side when the mast is put back up on to the boat.

                  Is this a good decesion to remove the stay frome each side of leave it alone and go forward and help the sail through. I am in the process of doing her 43 year old refit and just want to have things right because I not going to paint and rebuild the boat again in my lifetime.

                  Thanks for the inputs I have saved many and the one on the centerboard rebuild a couple of years ago was excelletnt.

                  Happiness,
                  Rich



                • fullofbull@tampabay.rr.com
                  Rich, I have hull 313 a 1970 model which I m doing a complete rebuild. I had the standing rigging evaluated by a marine engineer and moved my lower foward stay
                  Message 8 of 8 , Nov 8, 2011
                    Rich,
                    I have hull 313 a 1970 model which I'm doing a complete rebuild. I had the standing rigging evaluated by a marine engineer and moved my lower foward stay 1' ahesad of the upper mounted on a deck plate that ties into the hull. I had chain plates made that attach to the hull and moved the aft lower 1' aft of the upper also on a chain plate mounted to the hull. I did this so I could use a Hoyt jib boom and for light air a 150 genni.
                    I've noticed a few changes over the years of this model, where the standing rigging was attached. Your sail maker hopefully has the ability to evaluate the loads on the rigging with the low aspect rigs of a longer boom and incorparating the larger head sail.
                    Jeff
                    Pegasus M30 313
                    ---- John Pascoe <johnpascoe26@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi All,
                    > On our Morgan 45 we have four rotating wood dowels around the shrouds, two on each side.
                    > They are split in two and held together with plastic tie wraps.
                    > As the jib passes over one side to the other the rolling dowels pass the sail clew and knots etc over quite nicely.
                    >
                    >
                    > Joh and Christine
                    > Morgan 45. #12
                    > To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                    > From: bjadams_44@...
                    > Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 17:46:38 -0500
                    > Subject: RE: [morganowners] Forward stay on a 1968 Morgan 30
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                    > I have a Morgan 30 with a 155 genny. Big sails get caught up on the forward stays occasionally like when someone is not paying attention. This can be solved by careful sail handling and really should not be a problem especially with a 135 or 140 genoa LP. Holding the jib sheet during the tack until the boat has fully crossed to the other side allows the jib to pass cleanly to the other side. I've never heard such bad recommendation from a sailmaker. Charlie Morgan made a lot of serious calculations when he was deciding how to keep the mast up. I'd go with those rather than the musings of a sailmaker looking to sell a genny.
                    >
                    > To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                    > From: rlboats2008@...
                    > Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:19:23 +0000
                    > Subject: [morganowners] Forward stay on a 1968 Morgan 30
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                    > I have a Morgan 30 hull 115, that has the 3 stay configuration for each side configuration with 2 amidships and on forward about 2 feet. The time has come for new sails and the recommendation was by the sailmaker was to relace the 140 that I have with a new on (also have roller furling) and to stop the cover portion of the sail from getting hung up and dug into during a tack remove the forward stay on each side when the mast is put back up on to the boat.
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                    > Is this a good decesion to remove the stay frome each side of leave it alone and go forward and help the sail through. I am in the process of doing her 43 year old refit and just want to have things right because I not going to paint and rebuild the boat again in my lifetime.
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                    > Thanks for the inputs I have saved many and the one on the centerboard rebuild a couple of years ago was excelletnt.
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