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Re: [morganowners] Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416

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  • Brian Nolan
    Captain Jack   I have a Morgan 33 O/I with a 4.108, how much of this Engine Oil stop leak do you use for each oil change and...it wont hurt my engine? Brian
    Message 1 of 20 , Aug 1, 2011
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      Captain Jack
        I have a Morgan 33 O/I with a 4.108, how much of this Engine Oil stop leak do you use for each oil change and...it wont hurt my engine?
       
      Brian
      S/V Eclipse


      From: "jregar@..." <jregar@...>
      To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thu, June 16, 2011 8:07:18 AM
      Subject: Re: [morganowners] Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416

       

      Opps, forgot about the removal.  Easy and no clearance problems.  Hardest part was breaking the shaft coupling bolts, then push the shaft to the stern (don't worry about water coming in), remove four bolts on the engine housing and lift out. I manually lifted out mine on my Morgan 416 O.I.  While you have it out might want to look at the pressure plate too.
       
      Another tip about the 4-154.  When I bought the boat it had low engine oil pressure (25-30) and oil leaks everywhere. I knew the rear seal was leaking and had no idea where all the other oil was coming from?  I remembered someone suggested BARR's Engine Oil STOP LEAK and I tried it with every oil change and it worked for more than 700 hrs (still going strong when sold the boat Jan 31), oil pressure went up to a steady 45 and stayed there.
       
       
      Capt. Jack



      -----Original Message-----
      From: Lesley <LesleySuddard@...>
      To: morganowners <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wed, Jun 15, 2011 11:14 pm
      Subject: [morganowners] Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416

       
      Hello everyone,

      I was hoping someone on this forum could help me with a question about a Morgan 416 O/I (1981 to be specific), and the Hurth, model HBW 250-3N (serial #19015) transmission mated to a Perkins 4-154 engine.

      On our trip North with the boat at the end of last year, the transmission starting spitting fluid out of the rear in the prop shaft area. I thought it was limited to the rear seal but my brother, who nursed the transmission North up the Chesapeake, isn't completely sure where the leak originated.

      The transmission kept losing fluid at an alarming rate, and got worse until we switched from ATF to a single-weight engine oil, with some Marvel Oil thrown in for good measure.

      Amazingly, even though the transmission ran itself dry before we discovered the problem, it still seemed to work perfectly for the duration of the trip. (Tough little bugger.)

      Before the boat goes back in the water, I wanted to try to repair the transmission and wondered whether it would be wisest to pull the transmission out and have it gone over? The boat has sat neglected for the past couple years prior to our buying it last fall, and I don't know how the drive unit was maintained. (Other than to bet it wasn't, judging by the rest of the boat systems.)

      If removal to repair is required, what is the procedure for removing the transmission on the 416 with the Perkins 4-154? There doesn't appear to be enough clearance between the back of the transmission and the spar for the transmission to slide back off of the engine. I was wondering if there was a trick to getting it out of there?

      Any advice from someone who has experience with the transmission and removal of the unit would be GREATLY appreciated. (And whether it is necessary.)

      I'm hoping to get the boat back in the water soon! Just a couple below-the-waterline issues to take care of first...

      Thanks in advance,

      Lesley
      s/v Sheer Joy

    • jregar@aol.com
      On my 4-154 I used 1-1/2 bottles. http://www.barsproducts.com/E10L.htm the web site said one 15.5L bottle treats 4-6 quarts, my 4-154 used about 8 quarts, so I
      Message 2 of 20 , Aug 1, 2011
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        On my 4-154 I used 1-1/2 bottles. http://www.barsproducts.com/E10L.htm
         
        the web site said one 15.5L bottle treats 4-6 quarts, my 4-154 used about 8 quarts, so I used 1-1/2 bottles each oil change.
         
        Capt. Jack



        -----Original Message-----
        From: Brian Nolan <brian.nolan@...>
        To: morganowners <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Mon, Aug 1, 2011 1:16 pm
        Subject: Re: [morganowners] Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416

         
        Captain Jack
          I have a Morgan 33 O/I with a 4.108, how much of this Engine Oil stop leak do you use for each oil change and...it wont hurt my engine?
         
        Brian
        S/V Eclipse


        From: "jregar@..." <jregar@...>
        To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thu, June 16, 2011 8:07:18 AM
        Subject: Re: [morganowners] Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416

         
        Opps, forgot about the removal.  Easy and no clearance problems.  Hardest part was breaking the shaft coupling bolts, then push the shaft to the stern (don't worry about water coming in), remove four bolts on the engine housing and lift out. I manually lifted out mine on my Morgan 416 O.I.  While you have it out might want to look at the pressure plate too.
         
        Another tip about the 4-154.  When I bought the boat it had low engine oil pressure (25-30) and oil leaks everywhere. I knew the rear seal was leaking and had no idea where all the other oil was coming from?  I remembered someone suggested BARR's Engine Oil STOP LEAK and I tried it with every oil change and it worked for more than 700 hrs (still going strong when sold the boat Jan 31), oil pressure went up to a steady 45 and stayed there.
         
         
        Capt. Jack



        -----Original Message-----
        From: Lesley <LesleySuddard@...>
        To: morganowners <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wed, Jun 15, 2011 11:14 pm
        Subject: [morganowners] Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416

         
        Hello everyone,

        I was hoping someone on this forum could help me with a question about a Morgan 416 O/I (1981 to be specific), and the Hurth, model HBW 250-3N (serial #19015) transmission mated to a Perkins 4-154 engine.

        On our trip North with the boat at the end of last year, the transmission starting spitting fluid out of the rear in the prop shaft area. I thought it was limited to the rear seal but my brother, who nursed the transmission North up the Chesapeake, isn't completely sure where the leak originated.

        The transmission kept losing fluid at an alarming rate, and got worse until we switched from ATF to a single-weight engine oil, with some Marvel Oil thrown in for good measure.

        Amazingly, even though the transmission ran itself dry before we discovered the problem, it still seemed to work perfectly for the duration of the trip. (Tough little bugger.)

        Before the boat goes back in the water, I wanted to try to repair the transmission and wondered whether it would be wisest to pull the transmission out and have it gone over? The boat has sat neglected for the past couple years prior to our buying it last fall, and I don't know how the drive unit was maintained. (Other than to bet it wasn't, judging by the rest of the boat systems.)

        If removal to repair is required, what is the procedure for removing the transmission on the 416 with the Perkins 4-154? There doesn't appear to be enough clearance between the back of the transmission and the spar for the transmission to slide back off of the engine. I was wondering if there was a trick to getting it out of there?

        Any advice from someone who has experience with the transmission and removal of the unit would be GREATLY appreciated. (And whether it is necessary.)

        I'm hoping to get the boat back in the water soon! Just a couple below-the-waterline issues to take care of first...

        Thanks in advance,

        Lesley
        s/v Sheer Joy

      • Brian Nolan
        Thank you Jack   From: jregar@aol.com To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 8:34 PM Subject: Re: [morganowners]
        Message 3 of 20 , Aug 8, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Thank you Jack
           

          From: "jregar@..." <jregar@...>
          To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 8:34 PM
          Subject: Re: [morganowners] Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416

           
          On my 4-154 I used 1-1/2 bottles. http://www.barsproducts.com/E10L.htm
           
          the web site said one 15.5L bottle treats 4-6 quarts, my 4-154 used about 8 quarts, so I used 1-1/2 bottles each oil change.
           
          Capt. Jack



          -----Original Message-----
          From: Brian Nolan <brian.nolan@...>
          To: morganowners <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Mon, Aug 1, 2011 1:16 pm
          Subject: Re: [morganowners] Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416

           
          Captain Jack
            I have a Morgan 33 O/I with a 4.108, how much of this Engine Oil stop leak do you use for each oil change and...it wont hurt my engine?
           
          Brian
          S/V Eclipse

          From: "jregar@..." <jregar@...>
          To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thu, June 16, 2011 8:07:18 AM
          Subject: Re: [morganowners] Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416

           
          Opps, forgot about the removal.  Easy and no clearance problems.  Hardest part was breaking the shaft coupling bolts, then push the shaft to the stern (don't worry about water coming in), remove four bolts on the engine housing and lift out. I manually lifted out mine on my Morgan 416 O.I.  While you have it out might want to look at the pressure plate too.
           
          Another tip about the 4-154.  When I bought the boat it had low engine oil pressure (25-30) and oil leaks everywhere. I knew the rear seal was leaking and had no idea where all the other oil was coming from?  I remembered someone suggested BARR's Engine Oil STOP LEAK and I tried it with every oil change and it worked for more than 700 hrs (still going strong when sold the boat Jan 31), oil pressure went up to a steady 45 and stayed there.
           
           
          Capt. Jack



          -----Original Message-----
          From: Lesley <LesleySuddard@...>
          To: morganowners <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wed, Jun 15, 2011 11:14 pm
          Subject: [morganowners] Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416

           
          Hello everyone,

          I was hoping someone on this forum could help me with a question about a Morgan 416 O/I (1981 to be specific), and the Hurth, model HBW 250-3N (serial #19015) transmission mated to a Perkins 4-154 engine.

          On our trip North with the boat at the end of last year, the transmission starting spitting fluid out of the rear in the prop shaft area. I thought it was limited to the rear seal but my brother, who nursed the transmission North up the Chesapeake, isn't completely sure where the leak originated.

          The transmission kept losing fluid at an alarming rate, and got worse until we switched from ATF to a single-weight engine oil, with some Marvel Oil thrown in for good measure.

          Amazingly, even though the transmission ran itself dry before we discovered the problem, it still seemed to work perfectly for the duration of the trip. (Tough little bugger.)

          Before the boat goes back in the water, I wanted to try to repair the transmission and wondered whether it would be wisest to pull the transmission out and have it gone over? The boat has sat neglected for the past couple years prior to our buying it last fall, and I don't know how the drive unit was maintained. (Other than to bet it wasn't, judging by the rest of the boat systems.)

          If removal to repair is required, what is the procedure for removing the transmission on the 416 with the Perkins 4-154? There doesn't appear to be enough clearance between the back of the transmission and the spar for the transmission to slide back off of the engine. I was wondering if there was a trick to getting it out of there?

          Any advice from someone who has experience with the transmission and removal of the unit would be GREATLY appreciated. (And whether it is necessary.)

          I'm hoping to get the boat back in the water soon! Just a couple below-the-waterline issues to take care of first...

          Thanks in advance,

          Lesley
          s/v Sheer Joy



        • Mark M Bober
          15.5 Liters is 16+ quarts. Is that a Typo? Sent from my iPhone
          Message 4 of 20 , Aug 8, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            15.5 Liters is 16+ quarts. Is that a Typo?

            Sent from my iPhone

            On Aug 8, 2011, at 11:40 AM, Brian Nolan <brian.nolan@...> wrote:

             

            Thank you Jack
             

            From: "jregar@..." <jregar@...>
            To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 8:34 PM
            Subject: Re: [morganowners] Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416

             
            On my 4-154 I used 1-1/2 bottles. http://www.barsproducts.com/E10L.htm
             
            the web site said one 15.5L bottle treats 4-6 quarts, my 4-154 used about 8 quarts, so I used 1-1/2 bottles each oil change.
             
            Capt. Jack



            -----Original Message-----
            From: Brian Nolan <brian.nolan@...>
            To: morganowners <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Mon, Aug 1, 2011 1:16 pm
            Subject: Re: [morganowners] Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416

             
            Captain Jack
              I have a Morgan 33 O/I with a 4.108, how much of this Engine Oil stop leak do you use for each oil change and...it wont hurt my engine?
             
            Brian
            S/V Eclipse

            From: "jregar@..." <jregar@...>
            To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thu, June 16, 2011 8:07:18 AM
            Subject: Re: [morganowners] Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416

             
            Opps, forgot about the removal.  Easy and no clearance problems.  Hardest part was breaking the shaft coupling bolts, then push the shaft to the stern (don't worry about water coming in), remove four bolts on the engine housing and lift out. I manually lifted out mine on my Morgan 416 O.I.  While you have it out might want to look at the pressure plate too.
             
            Another tip about the 4-154.  When I bought the boat it had low engine oil pressure (25-30) and oil leaks everywhere. I knew the rear seal was leaking and had no idea where all the other oil was coming from?  I remembered someone suggested BARR's Engine Oil STOP LEAK and I tried it with every oil change and it worked for more than 700 hrs (still going strong when sold the boat Jan 31), oil pressure went up to a steady 45 and stayed there.
             
             
            Capt. Jack



            -----Original Message-----
            From: Lesley <LesleySuddard@...>
            To: morganowners <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wed, Jun 15, 2011 11:14 pm
            Subject: [morganowners] Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416

             
            Hello everyone,

            I was hoping someone on this forum could help me with a question about a Morgan 416 O/I (1981 to be specific), and the Hurth, model HBW 250-3N (serial #19015) transmission mated to a Perkins 4-154 engine.

            On our trip North with the boat at the end of last year, the transmission starting spitting fluid out of the rear in the prop shaft area. I thought it was limited to the rear seal but my brother, who nursed the transmission North up the Chesapeake, isn't completely sure where the leak originated.

            The transmission kept losing fluid at an alarming rate, and got worse until we switched from ATF to a single-weight engine oil, with some Marvel Oil thrown in for good measure.

            Amazingly, even though the transmission ran itself dry before we discovered the problem, it still seemed to work perfectly for the duration of the trip. (Tough little bugger.)

            Before the boat goes back in the water, I wanted to try to repair the transmission and wondered whether it would be wisest to pull the transmission out and have it gone over? The boat has sat neglected for the past couple years prior to our buying it last fall, and I don't know how the drive unit was maintained. (Other than to bet it wasn't, judging by the rest of the boat systems.)

            If removal to repair is required, what is the procedure for removing the transmission on the 416 with the Perkins 4-154? There doesn't appear to be enough clearance between the back of the transmission and the spar for the transmission to slide back off of the engine. I was wondering if there was a trick to getting it out of there?

            Any advice from someone who has experience with the transmission and removal of the unit would be GREATLY appreciated. (And whether it is necessary.)

            I'm hoping to get the boat back in the water soon! Just a couple below-the-waterline issues to take care of first...

            Thanks in advance,

            Lesley
            s/v Sheer Joy



          • Lesley
            Thanks everyone for your helpful advice. You were right, the shaft coupling did pose a bit of a problem. Now that the shaft is loose and pushed back, I find
            Message 5 of 20 , Aug 8, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              Thanks everyone for your helpful advice. You were right, the shaft coupling did pose a bit of a problem. Now that the shaft is loose and pushed back, I find that the transmission is firmly stuck to the engine. I can manage to beat it back and forth enough to get the edge of a putty knife in on one side or the other, but no luck freeing the Hurth 250-3N from the output shaft of the Perkins 4-154.

              Any recommendations? Thanks in advance! I'm sooooo close.

              Lesley
              s/v Sheer Joy
              Chesapeake City, MD
            • jregar@aol.com
              Yes, 15.5 Fl oz. ... From: Mark M Bober To: morganowners Cc: morganowners Sent:
              Message 6 of 20 , Aug 8, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Yes, 15.5 Fl oz.



                -----Original Message-----
                From: Mark M Bober <Soquip@...>
                To: morganowners <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
                Cc: morganowners <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Mon, Aug 8, 2011 12:24 pm
                Subject: Re: [morganowners] Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416

                 
                15.5 Liters is 16+ quarts. Is that a Typo?

                Sent from my iPhone

                On Aug 8, 2011, at 11:40 AM, Brian Nolan <brian.nolan@...> wrote:

                 
                Thank you Jack
                 

                From: "jregar@..." <jregar@...>
                To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 8:34 PM
                Subject: Re: [morganowners] Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416

                 
                On my 4-154 I used 1-1/2 bottles. http://www.barsproducts.com/E10L.htm
                 
                the web site said one 15.5L bottle treats 4-6 quarts, my 4-154 used about 8 quarts, so I used 1-1/2 bottles each oil change.
                 
                Capt. Jack



                -----Original Message-----
                From: Brian Nolan <brian.nolan@...>
                To: morganowners <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Mon, Aug 1, 2011 1:16 pm
                Subject: Re: [morganowners] Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416

                 
                Captain Jack
                  I have a Morgan 33 O/I with a 4.108, how much of this Engine Oil stop leak do you use for each oil change and...it wont hurt my engine?
                 
                Brian
                S/V Eclipse

                From: "jregar@..." <jregar@...>
                To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thu, June 16, 2011 8:07:18 AM
                Subject: Re: [morganowners] Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416

                 
                Opps, forgot about the removal.  Easy and no clearance problems.  Hardest part was breaking the shaft coupling bolts, then push the shaft to the stern (don't worry about water coming in), remove four bolts on the engine housing and lift out. I manually lifted out mine on my Morgan 416 O.I.  While you have it out might want to look at the pressure plate too.
                 
                Another tip about the 4-154.  When I bought the boat it had low engine oil pressure (25-30) and oil leaks everywhere. I knew the rear seal was leaking and had no idea where all the other oil was coming from?  I remembered someone suggested BARR's Engine Oil STOP LEAK and I tried it with every oil change and it worked for more than 700 hrs (still going strong when sold the boat Jan 31), oil pressure went up to a steady 45 and stayed there.
                 
                 
                Capt. Jack



                -----Original Message-----
                From: Lesley <LesleySuddard@...>
                To: morganowners <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Wed, Jun 15, 2011 11:14 pm
                Subject: [morganowners] Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416

                 
                Hello everyone,

                I was hoping someone on this forum could help me with a question about a Morgan 416 O/I (1981 to be specific), and the Hurth, model HBW 250-3N (serial #19015) transmission mated to a Perkins 4-154 engine.

                On our trip North with the boat at the end of last year, the transmission starting spitting fluid out of the rear in the prop shaft area. I thought it was limited to the rear seal but my brother, who nursed the transmission North up the Chesapeake, isn't completely sure where the leak originated.

                The transmission kept losing fluid at an alarming rate, and got worse until we switched from ATF to a single-weight engine oil, with some Marvel Oil thrown in for good measure.

                Amazingly, even though the transmission ran itself dry before we discovered the problem, it still seemed to work perfectly for the duration of the trip. (Tough little bugger.)

                Before the boat goes back in the water, I wanted to try to repair the transmission and wondered whether it would be wisest to pull the transmission out and have it gone over? The boat has sat neglected for the past couple years prior to our buying it last fall, and I don't know how the drive unit was maintained. (Other than to bet it wasn't, judging by the rest of the boat systems.)

                If removal to repair is required, what is the procedure for removing the transmission on the 416 with the Perkins 4-154? There doesn't appear to be enough clearance between the back of the transmission and the spar for the transmission to slide back off of the engine. I was wondering if there was a trick to getting it out of there?

                Any advice from someone who has experience with the transmission and removal of the unit would be GREATLY appreciated. (And whether it is necessary.)

                I'm hoping to get the boat back in the water soon! Just a couple below-the-waterline issues to take care of first...

                Thanks in advance,

                Lesley
                s/v Sheer Joy



              • Mark M Bober
                That sounds better Sent from my iPhone
                Message 7 of 20 , Aug 8, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  That sounds better

                  Sent from my iPhone

                  On Aug 8, 2011, at 2:49 PM, jregar@... wrote:

                   

                  Yes, 15.5 Fl oz.



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Mark M Bober <Soquip@...>
                  To: morganowners <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
                  Cc: morganowners <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Mon, Aug 8, 2011 12:24 pm
                  Subject: Re: [morganowners] Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416

                   
                  15.5 Liters is 16+ quarts. Is that a Typo?

                  Sent from my iPhone

                  On Aug 8, 2011, at 11:40 AM, Brian Nolan <brian.nolan@...> wrote:

                   
                  Thank you Jack
                   

                  From: "jregar@..." <jregar@...>
                  To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 8:34 PM
                  Subject: Re: [morganowners] Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416

                   
                  On my 4-154 I used 1-1/2 bottles. http://www.barsproducts.com/E10L.htm
                   
                  the web site said one 15.5L bottle treats 4-6 quarts, my 4-154 used about 8 quarts, so I used 1-1/2 bottles each oil change.
                   
                  Capt. Jack



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Brian Nolan <brian.nolan@...>
                  To: morganowners <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Mon, Aug 1, 2011 1:16 pm
                  Subject: Re: [morganowners] Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416

                   
                  Captain Jack
                    I have a Morgan 33 O/I with a 4.108, how much of this Engine Oil stop leak do you use for each oil change and...it wont hurt my engine?
                   
                  Brian
                  S/V Eclipse

                  From: "jregar@..." <jregar@...>
                  To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thu, June 16, 2011 8:07:18 AM
                  Subject: Re: [morganowners] Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416

                   
                  Opps, forgot about the removal.  Easy and no clearance problems.  Hardest part was breaking the shaft coupling bolts, then push the shaft to the stern (don't worry about water coming in), remove four bolts on the engine housing and lift out. I manually lifted out mine on my Morgan 416 O.I.  While you have it out might want to look at the pressure plate too.
                   
                  Another tip about the 4-154.  When I bought the boat it had low engine oil pressure (25-30) and oil leaks everywhere. I knew the rear seal was leaking and had no idea where all the other oil was coming from?  I remembered someone suggested BARR's Engine Oil STOP LEAK and I tried it with every oil change and it worked for more than 700 hrs (still going strong when sold the boat Jan 31), oil pressure went up to a steady 45 and stayed there.
                   
                   
                  Capt. Jack



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Lesley <LesleySuddard@...>
                  To: morganowners <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Wed, Jun 15, 2011 11:14 pm
                  Subject: [morganowners] Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416

                   
                  Hello everyone,

                  I was hoping someone on this forum could help me with a question about a Morgan 416 O/I (1981 to be specific), and the Hurth, model HBW 250-3N (serial #19015) transmission mated to a Perkins 4-154 engine.

                  On our trip North with the boat at the end of last year, the transmission starting spitting fluid out of the rear in the prop shaft area. I thought it was limited to the rear seal but my brother, who nursed the transmission North up the Chesapeake, isn't completely sure where the leak originated.

                  The transmission kept losing fluid at an alarming rate, and got worse until we switched from ATF to a single-weight engine oil, with some Marvel Oil thrown in for good measure.

                  Amazingly, even though the transmission ran itself dry before we discovered the problem, it still seemed to work perfectly for the duration of the trip. (Tough little bugger.)

                  Before the boat goes back in the water, I wanted to try to repair the transmission and wondered whether it would be wisest to pull the transmission out and have it gone over? The boat has sat neglected for the past couple years prior to our buying it last fall, and I don't know how the drive unit was maintained. (Other than to bet it wasn't, judging by the rest of the boat systems.)

                  If removal to repair is required, what is the procedure for removing the transmission on the 416 with the Perkins 4-154? There doesn't appear to be enough clearance between the back of the transmission and the spar for the transmission to slide back off of the engine. I was wondering if there was a trick to getting it out of there?

                  Any advice from someone who has experience with the transmission and removal of the unit would be GREATLY appreciated. (And whether it is necessary.)

                  I'm hoping to get the boat back in the water soon! Just a couple below-the-waterline issues to take care of first...

                  Thanks in advance,

                  Lesley
                  s/v Sheer Joy



                • Lesley
                  Mike, Jack and everyone - thanks for the info, but mostly due to not being home for much of the summer (and now fall...) the transmission remains firmly stuck
                  Message 8 of 20 , Sep 27, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Mike, Jack and everyone - thanks for the info, but mostly due to not being home for much of the summer (and now fall...) the transmission remains firmly stuck on the engine. I've had two mechanics look at it, and they are stumped as well. I wanted to make sure I was going about this the right way....

                    I have removed the 6 bolts (3 each side, none directly above or below the driveshaft flange) that hold the damper plate onto the bell housing of the engine. I have managed to wiggle a putty knife into the gap, and beat the transmission senseless with a block of wood and used the claw (carefully) of a pry bar in the gap between damper plate and engine bell housing. Absolutely no amount of persuasion has gotten the transmission to budge one little millimeter further aft. The lip of the damper plate still remains inside the bell housing, so can't access the internals to try to spray PB Blaster or some other magic rust-dissolving goo onto the transmission spline.

                    HELP! What am I doing wrong? Something has to be wrong for it to be so firmly stuck that two mechanics (giving it a quick look to help me out) and I haven't been able to get it to budge.

                    Thanks again for everyone's helpful advice on this and other topics. It's amazing! (Would love to see a CD-ROM of the archives, the information is invaluable!)

                    Hope you all had a great summer of sailing. It looks like if I ever get a break from out-of-town work projects, I'll have Sheer Joy ready for sailing next year.

                    Fair weather,
                    Lesley
                    s/v Sheer Joy - Morgan 416 O/I Ketch
                    Bohemia River, Chesapeake

                    --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, Mike & Kerri O'Barr <kosrae41@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > The transmission is fairly easy to pull out. I have had mine out 3 times over the last 12 years, last time it took me lesss than an hour. 1st bad overhaul, 2nd overhaul again, 3rd dock line wrapped around shaft and pulled the transmission off the engine.
                    >
                    > If it was my boat I would overhaul or replace the transmission.
                    >
                    > Mike
                    > S/V Kosrae
                  • jregar@aol.com
                    I am sure you will hear this from everyone too. You can use heat. You can use solvents. You can use metal wedges. Just keep working the the gap . You might
                    Message 9 of 20 , Sep 27, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I am sure you will hear this from everyone too.
                       
                      You can use heat.
                      You can use solvents.
                      You can use metal wedges.
                      Just keep working the the "gap". 
                      You might even leave the bolts loose, attach the transmission, forward and reverse, might break free (works on props)!!
                      Maybe some sort of puller?
                       
                      Capt. Jack



                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Lesley <LesleySuddard@...>
                      To: morganowners <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:35 am
                      Subject: [morganowners] Re: Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416

                       
                      Mike, Jack and everyone - thanks for the info, but mostly due to not being home for much of the summer (and now fall...) the transmission remains firmly stuck on the engine. I've had two mechanics look at it, and they are stumped as well. I wanted to make sure I was going about this the right way....

                      I have removed the 6 bolts (3 each side, none directly above or below the driveshaft flange) that hold the damper plate onto the bell housing of the engine. I have managed to wiggle a putty knife into the gap, and beat the transmission senseless with a block of wood and used the claw (carefully) of a pry bar in the gap between damper plate and engine bell housing. Absolutely no amount of persuasion has gotten the transmission to budge one little millimeter further aft. The lip of the damper plate still remains inside the bell housing, so can't access the internals to try to spray PB Blaster or some other magic rust-dissolving goo onto the transmission spline.

                      HELP! What am I doing wrong? Something has to be wrong for it to be so firmly stuck that two mechanics (giving it a quick look to help me out) and I haven't been able to get it to budge.

                      Thanks again for everyone's helpful advice on this and other topics. It's amazing! (Would love to see a CD-ROM of the archives, the information is invaluable!)

                      Hope you all had a great summer of sailing. It looks like if I ever get a break from out-of-town work projects, I'll have Sheer Joy ready for sailing next year.

                      Fair weather,
                      Lesley
                      s/v Sheer Joy - Morgan 416 O/I Ketch
                      Bohemia River, Chesapeake

                      --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, Mike & Kerri O'Barr <kosrae41@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > The transmission is fairly easy to pull out. I have had mine out 3 times over the last 12 years, last time it took me lesss than an hour. 1st bad overhaul, 2nd overhaul again, 3rd dock line wrapped around shaft and pulled the transmission off the engine.
                      >
                      > If it was my boat I would overhaul or replace the transmission.
                      >
                      > Mike
                      > S/V Kosrae

                    • Lesley
                      Jack & others, One big question - is there ANYTHING that could be set in the internals of the transmission (forward / reverse) that would cause the
                      Message 10 of 20 , Sep 27, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Jack & others,

                        One big question - is there ANYTHING that could be set in the internals of the transmission (forward / reverse) that would cause the transmission to not slide off? I don't think so, but I'm just grasping at straws to see if I've overlooked anything.

                        Thanks!!!
                        Lesley

                        --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, jregar@... wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > I am sure you will hear this from everyone too.
                        >
                        > You can use heat.
                        > You can use solvents.
                        > You can use metal wedges.
                        > Just keep working the the "gap".
                        > You might even leave the bolts loose, attach the transmission, forward and reverse, might break free (works on props)!!
                        > Maybe some sort of puller?
                        >
                        > Capt. Jack
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Lesley <LesleySuddard@...>
                        > To: morganowners <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:35 am
                        > Subject: [morganowners] Re: Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Mike, Jack and everyone - thanks for the info, but mostly due to not being home for much of the summer (and now fall...) the transmission remains firmly stuck on the engine. I've had two mechanics look at it, and they are stumped as well. I wanted to make sure I was going about this the right way....
                        >
                        > I have removed the 6 bolts (3 each side, none directly above or below the driveshaft flange) that hold the damper plate onto the bell housing of the engine. I have managed to wiggle a putty knife into the gap, and beat the transmission senseless with a block of wood and used the claw (carefully) of a pry bar in the gap between damper plate and engine bell housing. Absolutely no amount of persuasion has gotten the transmission to budge one little millimeter further aft. The lip of the damper plate still remains inside the bell housing, so can't access the internals to try to spray PB Blaster or some other magic rust-dissolving goo onto the transmission spline.
                        >
                        > HELP! What am I doing wrong? Something has to be wrong for it to be so firmly stuck that two mechanics (giving it a quick look to help me out) and I haven't been able to get it to budge.
                        >
                        > Thanks again for everyone's helpful advice on this and other topics. It's amazing! (Would love to see a CD-ROM of the archives, the information is invaluable!)
                        >
                        > Hope you all had a great summer of sailing. It looks like if I ever get a break from out-of-town work projects, I'll have Sheer Joy ready for sailing next year.
                        >
                        > Fair weather,
                        > Lesley
                        > s/v Sheer Joy - Morgan 416 O/I Ketch
                        > Bohemia River, Chesapeake
                        >
                        > --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, Mike & Kerri O'Barr <kosrae41@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > The transmission is fairly easy to pull out. I have had mine out 3 times over the last 12 years, last time it took me lesss than an hour. 1st bad overhaul, 2nd overhaul again, 3rd dock line wrapped around shaft and pulled the transmission off the engine.
                        > >
                        > > If it was my boat I would overhaul or replace the transmission.
                        > >
                        > > Mike
                        > > S/V Kosrae
                        >
                      • Grover
                        Lesley, I pulled the Hurth transmission myself off the back of my Perkins Prima 60 - but I think it s the same transmission you have. But mine came right off.
                        Message 11 of 20 , Oct 3, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Lesley, I pulled the Hurth transmission myself off the back of my Perkins Prima 60 - but I think it's the same transmission you have.
                          But mine came right off.
                          I posted the manual for the Hurth HBW 5/10/20 in the Files section.
                          Good Luck.
                          Grover
                          Morgan OI 416 1981 Hull #36
                          --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, "Lesley" <LesleySuddard@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Jack & others,
                          >
                          > One big question - is there ANYTHING that could be set in the internals of the transmission (forward / reverse) that would cause the transmission to not slide off? I don't think so, but I'm just grasping at straws to see if I've overlooked anything.
                          >
                          > Thanks!!!
                          > Lesley
                          >
                          > --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, jregar@ wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > I am sure you will hear this from everyone too.
                          > >
                          > > You can use heat.
                          > > You can use solvents.
                          > > You can use metal wedges.
                          > > Just keep working the the "gap".
                          > > You might even leave the bolts loose, attach the transmission, forward and reverse, might break free (works on props)!!
                          > > Maybe some sort of puller?
                          > >
                          > > Capt. Jack
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > From: Lesley <LesleySuddard@>
                          > > To: morganowners <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > Sent: Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:35 am
                          > > Subject: [morganowners] Re: Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Mike, Jack and everyone - thanks for the info, but mostly due to not being home for much of the summer (and now fall...) the transmission remains firmly stuck on the engine. I've had two mechanics look at it, and they are stumped as well. I wanted to make sure I was going about this the right way....
                          > >
                          > > I have removed the 6 bolts (3 each side, none directly above or below the driveshaft flange) that hold the damper plate onto the bell housing of the engine. I have managed to wiggle a putty knife into the gap, and beat the transmission senseless with a block of wood and used the claw (carefully) of a pry bar in the gap between damper plate and engine bell housing. Absolutely no amount of persuasion has gotten the transmission to budge one little millimeter further aft. The lip of the damper plate still remains inside the bell housing, so can't access the internals to try to spray PB Blaster or some other magic rust-dissolving goo onto the transmission spline.
                          > >
                          > > HELP! What am I doing wrong? Something has to be wrong for it to be so firmly stuck that two mechanics (giving it a quick look to help me out) and I haven't been able to get it to budge.
                          > >
                          > > Thanks again for everyone's helpful advice on this and other topics. It's amazing! (Would love to see a CD-ROM of the archives, the information is invaluable!)
                          > >
                          > > Hope you all had a great summer of sailing. It looks like if I ever get a break from out-of-town work projects, I'll have Sheer Joy ready for sailing next year.
                          > >
                          > > Fair weather,
                          > > Lesley
                          > > s/v Sheer Joy - Morgan 416 O/I Ketch
                          > > Bohemia River, Chesapeake
                          > >
                          > > --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, Mike & Kerri O'Barr <kosrae41@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > The transmission is fairly easy to pull out. I have had mine out 3 times over the last 12 years, last time it took me lesss than an hour. 1st bad overhaul, 2nd overhaul again, 3rd dock line wrapped around shaft and pulled the transmission off the engine.
                          > > >
                          > > > If it was my boat I would overhaul or replace the transmission.
                          > > >
                          > > > Mike
                          > > > S/V Kosrae
                          > >
                          >
                        • Stan
                          Lesley, Iv had a few stiff to remove but never jammed solid, would seem that the splines are rusted to the drive plate, even so you should be able to force
                          Message 12 of 20 , Oct 3, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Lesley,
                            Iv had a few stiff to remove but never jammed solid, would seem that the splines are rusted to the drive plate, even so you should be able to force them off.
                            I don't know your time frame but I have a couple of transmission in my garage will be at least a week before I can take a look.
                            I was thinking that maybe if all else fails as a last resort you could drill a access hole in the housing and release the drive plate, by turning engine over to reach each bolt, rather than risk breaking the bell housing.
                            Sorry to offer such a dumb question, but are you sure that you are not overlooking a mounting bolt...I have seen the best mechanics slip up!!
                            For the love of me I can remember anything about the starter mount, have you dropped the starter completely, as I said I will take a look at mine in a week or two.
                            Stan & Karen project Moonshine


                            --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, "Grover" <grooverking@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Lesley, I pulled the Hurth transmission myself off the back of my Perkins Prima 60 - but I think it's the same transmission you have.
                            > But mine came right off.
                            > I posted the manual for the Hurth HBW 5/10/20 in the Files section.
                            > Good Luck.
                            > Grover
                            > Morgan OI 416 1981 Hull #36
                            > --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, "Lesley" <LesleySuddard@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Jack & others,
                            > >
                            > > One big question - is there ANYTHING that could be set in the internals of the transmission (forward / reverse) that would cause the transmission to not slide off? I don't think so, but I'm just grasping at straws to see if I've overlooked anything.
                            > >
                            > > Thanks!!!
                            > > Lesley
                            > >
                            > > --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, jregar@ wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > I am sure you will hear this from everyone too.
                            > > >
                            > > > You can use heat.
                            > > > You can use solvents.
                            > > > You can use metal wedges.
                            > > > Just keep working the the "gap".
                            > > > You might even leave the bolts loose, attach the transmission, forward and reverse, might break free (works on props)!!
                            > > > Maybe some sort of puller?
                            > > >
                            > > > Capt. Jack
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > > From: Lesley <LesleySuddard@>
                            > > > To: morganowners <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > > Sent: Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:35 am
                            > > > Subject: [morganowners] Re: Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Mike, Jack and everyone - thanks for the info, but mostly due to not being home for much of the summer (and now fall...) the transmission remains firmly stuck on the engine. I've had two mechanics look at it, and they are stumped as well. I wanted to make sure I was going about this the right way....
                            > > >
                            > > > I have removed the 6 bolts (3 each side, none directly above or below the driveshaft flange) that hold the damper plate onto the bell housing of the engine. I have managed to wiggle a putty knife into the gap, and beat the transmission senseless with a block of wood and used the claw (carefully) of a pry bar in the gap between damper plate and engine bell housing. Absolutely no amount of persuasion has gotten the transmission to budge one little millimeter further aft. The lip of the damper plate still remains inside the bell housing, so can't access the internals to try to spray PB Blaster or some other magic rust-dissolving goo onto the transmission spline.
                            > > >
                            > > > HELP! What am I doing wrong? Something has to be wrong for it to be so firmly stuck that two mechanics (giving it a quick look to help me out) and I haven't been able to get it to budge.
                            > > >
                            > > > Thanks again for everyone's helpful advice on this and other topics. It's amazing! (Would love to see a CD-ROM of the archives, the information is invaluable!)
                            > > >
                            > > > Hope you all had a great summer of sailing. It looks like if I ever get a break from out-of-town work projects, I'll have Sheer Joy ready for sailing next year.
                            > > >
                            > > > Fair weather,
                            > > > Lesley
                            > > > s/v Sheer Joy - Morgan 416 O/I Ketch
                            > > > Bohemia River, Chesapeake
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, Mike & Kerri O'Barr <kosrae41@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > The transmission is fairly easy to pull out. I have had mine out 3 times over the last 12 years, last time it took me lesss than an hour. 1st bad overhaul, 2nd overhaul again, 3rd dock line wrapped around shaft and pulled the transmission off the engine.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > If it was my boat I would overhaul or replace the transmission.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Mike
                            > > > > S/V Kosrae
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • Larry Dill
                            Indeed, I can imagine the shaft sticking in the drive plate, but you should be able to still get at least perceptible movement at the housing joint, assuming
                            Message 13 of 20 , Oct 3, 2011
                            • 0 Attachment

                              Indeed, I can imagine the shaft sticking in the drive plate, but you should be able to still get at least perceptible movement at the housing joint, assuming all fasteners have been removed. Perhaps there was uncured paint on the bell and/or tranny when the tranny was installed, and it is behaving like glue. Maybe someone used some sealant (but I don’t know why anyone would use sealant on this installation). It doesn’t take much psi to hold the faces together, and typically, you are pressing/prying on a very small area, thus a lot of psi is required to separate, perhaps more than can reasonably be applied. You might try heating around the perimeter with a torch, not so much you discolor the housing, but if you can soften/carbonize any sealant or paint (or whatever is may be sticking the surfaces), you may get some movement with judicious use of separating chisels. I have removed hard-to separate faces like this by inserting separating chisels at two or three opposing sites, then evenly tapping them in. You will likely distort the edge of the castings a bit where the chisels contact, but so long as you are careful, you should not ruin so much of the face that you should have problems remounting (be careful not to load too much in one area - several steel wedges driven in around the circumference ought to separate the thing – if all fasteners have been removed). If you can get even a 32nd of an inch of movement, you will know you are on the right track. Typically, it is real difficult at first, but if you can get a quarter inch. . . .  

                               

                              Caution, before starting with any chisels, you want to be absolutely certain all screws/bolts are out. Might want to take a look at a parts diagram (usually can find one online somewhere). You should be able to see if there might be anything you may have missed.

                               

                              Good luck.

                               

                              LD

                               


                              From: morganowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto: morganowners@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Stan
                              Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 4:28 PM
                              To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [morganowners] Re: Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416

                               

                               

                              Lesley,
                              Iv had a few stiff to remove but never jammed solid, would seem that the splines are rusted to the drive plate, even so you should be able to force them off.
                              I don't know your time frame but I have a couple of transmission in my garage will be at least a week before I can take a look.
                              I was thinking that maybe if all else fails as a last resort you could drill a access hole in the housing and release the drive plate, by turning engine over to reach each bolt, rather than risk breaking the bell housing.
                              Sorry to offer such a dumb question, but are you sure that you are not overlooking a mounting bolt...I have seen the best mechanics slip up!!
                              For the love of me I can remember anything about the starter mount, have you dropped the starter completely, as I said I will take a look at mine in a week or two.
                              Stan & Karen project Moonshine

                              --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, "Grover" <grooverking@...> wrote:

                              >
                              > Lesley, I pulled the Hurth
                              transmission myself off the back of my Perkins Prima 60 - but I think it's the same transmission you have.
                              > But mine came right off.
                              > I posted the manual for the Hurth HBW 5/10/20 in the Files section.
                              > Good Luck.
                              > Grover
                              > Morgan OI 416 1981
                              w:st="on"> Hull #36
                              > --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com,
                              "Lesley" <LesleySuddard@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Jack & others,
                              > >
                              > > One big question - is there ANYTHING that could be set in the
                              internals of the transmission (forward / reverse) that would cause the transmission to not slide off? I don't think so, but I'm just grasping at straws to see if I've overlooked anything.
                              > >
                              > > Thanks!!!
                              > > Lesley
                              > >
                              > > --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com,
                              jregar@ wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > I am sure you will hear this from everyone too.
                              > > >
                              > > > You can use heat.
                              > > > You can use solvents.
                              > > > You can use metal wedges.
                              > > > Just keep working the the "gap".
                              > > > You might even leave the bolts loose, attach the transmission,
                              forward and reverse, might break free (works on props)!!
                              > > > Maybe some sort of puller?
                              > > >
                              > > > Capt. Jack
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > > From: Lesley <LesleySuddard@>
                              > > > To: morganowners <
                              href="mailto:morganowners%40yahoogroups.com">morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
                              > > > Sent: Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:35 am
                              > > > Subject: [morganowners] Re:
                              w:st="on">Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Mike, Jack and everyone - thanks for the info, but mostly due to
                              not being home for much of the summer (and now fall...) the transmission remains firmly stuck on the engine. I've had two mechanics look at it, and they are stumped as well. I wanted to make sure I was going about this the right way....
                              > > >
                              > > > I have removed the 6 bolts (3 each side, none directly above or
                              below the driveshaft flange) that hold the damper plate onto the bell housing of the engine. I have managed to wiggle a putty knife into the gap, and beat the transmission senseless with a block of wood and used the claw (carefully) of a pry bar in the gap between damper plate and engine bell housing. Absolutely no amount of persuasion has gotten the transmission to budge one little millimeter further aft. The lip of the damper plate still remains inside the bell housing, so can't access the internals to try to spray PB Blaster or some other magic rust-dissolving goo onto the transmission spline.
                              > > >
                              > > > HELP! What am I doing wrong? Something has to be wrong for it to
                              be so firmly stuck that two mechanics (giving it a quick look to help me out) and I haven't been able to get it to budge.
                              > > >
                              > > > Thanks again for everyone's helpful advice on this and other
                              topics. It's amazing! (Would love to see a CD-ROM of the archives, the information is invaluable!)
                              > > >
                              > > > Hope you all had a great summer of sailing. It looks like if I
                              ever get a break from out-of-town work projects, I'll have Sheer Joy ready for sailing next year.
                              > > >
                              > > > Fair weather,
                              > > > Lesley
                              > > > s/v Sheer Joy - Morgan
                              416 O/I Ketch
                              > > > Bohemia
                              w:st="on">River , Chesapeake
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com,
                              Mike & Kerri O'Barr <kosrae41@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > The transmission is fairly easy to pull out. I have had
                              mine out 3 times over the last 12 years, last time it took me lesss than an hour. 1st bad overhaul, 2nd overhaul again, 3rd dock line wrapped around shaft and pulled the transmission off the engine.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > If it was my boat I would overhaul or replace the
                              transmission.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Mike
                              > > > > S/V Kosrae
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >

                            • Flying Pig
                              ... From: Larry Dill To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 10:20 PM Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: Hurth transmission service in
                              Message 14 of 20 , Oct 4, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Larry Dill
                                To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 10:20 PM
                                Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416


                                 
                                Indeed, I can imagine the shaft sticking in the drive plate, but you should be able to still get at least perceptible movement at the housing joint, assuming all fasteners have been removed.  (clip)
                                 
                                 
                                Further to Larry's, I had been, when I made my suggestion about squirting a release agent in after removing the starter, assuming that the transmission was free, but bound at the shaft.

                                To reconfirm, does the transmission rotate but not move out from the engine?  If it doesn't rotate, that's an entirely different kettle of fish having nothing whatsoever to do with the shock plate...

                                L8R

                                Skip

                                Morgan 461 #2
                                SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
                                See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
                                Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
                                and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

                                "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
                                didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
                                away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
                                Dream. Discover."   - Mark Twain
                              • Stan
                                I just wished that I was at my boat, I have an engine and transmission sitting on the floor separated. I cant remember if there were locating pegs on the
                                Message 15 of 20 , Oct 4, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I just wished that I was at my boat, I have an engine and transmission sitting on the floor separated.
                                  I cant remember if there were locating pegs on the housing.
                                  I would have thought that with all the fixings removed, if it was hung up on the drive plate there would be slight movement at the gap as the plate can flex a tiny bit.

                                  Assuming the PO was not dumb enough to super glue the units together,
                                  I agree with Larry that some how the shaft is sticking on the drive plate, either rusted on, or even the splines failed and the two have welded themselves together, or the spigot bearing is seized up solid, or possibly welding itself to the fly wheel.
                                  I have never in 40 years seen either happen but in theory they could.

                                  You may have damage to the Flywheel or spigot shaft. I have noticed that the spigot shafts splines do rust.

                                  If careful force is not working, I would seriously consider my earlier suggestion of drilling an access hole to remove the drive plate mounting bolts, and using a rubber bung to keep out dust on assembly.

                                  That way you eliminate the first 3 of the 4 possibilities from the outside.
                                  1/ fixing missed
                                  2/ glued together/locating studs seized
                                  3/ splines
                                  4/ Spigot bearing.

                                  Wish I was there to see this, as its hard to believe.

                                  Stan & Karen project Moonshine









                                  --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Dill" <dillport@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Indeed, I can imagine the shaft sticking in the drive plate, but you should
                                  > be able to still get at least perceptible movement at the housing joint,
                                  > assuming all fasteners have been removed. Perhaps there was uncured paint on
                                  > the bell and/or tranny when the tranny was installed, and it is behaving
                                  > like glue. Maybe someone used some sealant (but I don't know why anyone
                                  > would use sealant on this installation). It doesn't take much psi to hold
                                  > the faces together, and typically, you are pressing/prying on a very small
                                  > area, thus a lot of psi is required to separate, perhaps more than can
                                  > reasonably be applied. You might try heating around the perimeter with a
                                  > torch, not so much you discolor the housing, but if you can soften/carbonize
                                  > any sealant or paint (or whatever is may be sticking the surfaces), you may
                                  > get some movement with judicious use of separating chisels. I have removed
                                  > hard-to separate faces like this by inserting separating chisels at two or
                                  > three opposing sites, then evenly tapping them in. You will likely distort
                                  > the edge of the castings a bit where the chisels contact, but so long as you
                                  > are careful, you should not ruin so much of the face that you should have
                                  > problems remounting (be careful not to load too much in one area - several
                                  > steel wedges driven in around the circumference ought to separate the thing
                                  > - if all fasteners have been removed). If you can get even a 32nd of an inch
                                  > of movement, you will know you are on the right track. Typically, it is real
                                  > difficult at first, but if you can get a quarter inch. . . .
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Caution, before starting with any chisels, you want to be absolutely certain
                                  > all screws/bolts are out. Might want to take a look at a parts diagram
                                  > (usually can find one online somewhere). You should be able to see if there
                                  > might be anything you may have missed.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Good luck.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > LD
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > _____
                                  >
                                  > From: morganowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:morganowners@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  > Behalf Of Stan
                                  > Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 4:28 PM
                                  > To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: [morganowners] Re: Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Lesley,
                                  > Iv had a few stiff to remove but never jammed solid, would seem that the
                                  > splines are rusted to the drive plate, even so you should be able to force
                                  > them off.
                                  > I don't know your time frame but I have a couple of transmission in my
                                  > garage will be at least a week before I can take a look.
                                  > I was thinking that maybe if all else fails as a last resort you could drill
                                  > a access hole in the housing and release the drive plate, by turning engine
                                  > over to reach each bolt, rather than risk breaking the bell housing.
                                  > Sorry to offer such a dumb question, but are you sure that you are not
                                  > overlooking a mounting bolt...I have seen the best mechanics slip up!!
                                  > For the love of me I can remember anything about the starter mount, have you
                                  > dropped the starter completely, as I said I will take a look at mine in a
                                  > week or two.
                                  > Stan & Karen project Moonshine
                                  >
                                  > --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com <mailto:morganowners%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > , "Grover" <grooverking@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Lesley, I pulled the Hurth transmission myself off the back of my Perkins
                                  > Prima 60 - but I think it's the same transmission you have.
                                  > > But mine came right off.
                                  > > I posted the manual for the Hurth HBW 5/10/20 in the Files section.
                                  > > Good Luck.
                                  > > Grover
                                  > > Morgan OI 416 1981 Hull #36
                                  > > --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                                  > <mailto:morganowners%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lesley" <LesleySuddard@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Jack & others,
                                  > > >
                                  > > > One big question - is there ANYTHING that could be set in the internals
                                  > of the transmission (forward / reverse) that would cause the transmission to
                                  > not slide off? I don't think so, but I'm just grasping at straws to see if
                                  > I've overlooked anything.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Thanks!!!
                                  > > > Lesley
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                                  > <mailto:morganowners%40yahoogroups.com> , jregar@ wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I am sure you will hear this from everyone too.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > You can use heat.
                                  > > > > You can use solvents.
                                  > > > > You can use metal wedges.
                                  > > > > Just keep working the the "gap".
                                  > > > > You might even leave the bolts loose, attach the transmission, forward
                                  > and reverse, might break free (works on props)!!
                                  > > > > Maybe some sort of puller?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Capt. Jack
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > > > > From: Lesley <LesleySuddard@>
                                  > > > > To: morganowners <morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                                  > <mailto:morganowners%40yahoogroups.com> >
                                  > > > > Sent: Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:35 am
                                  > > > > Subject: [morganowners] Re: Hurth transmission service in 1981 O/I 416
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Mike, Jack and everyone - thanks for the info, but mostly due to not
                                  > being home for much of the summer (and now fall...) the transmission remains
                                  > firmly stuck on the engine. I've had two mechanics look at it, and they are
                                  > stumped as well. I wanted to make sure I was going about this the right
                                  > way....
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I have removed the 6 bolts (3 each side, none directly above or below
                                  > the driveshaft flange) that hold the damper plate onto the bell housing of
                                  > the engine. I have managed to wiggle a putty knife into the gap, and beat
                                  > the transmission senseless with a block of wood and used the claw
                                  > (carefully) of a pry bar in the gap between damper plate and engine bell
                                  > housing. Absolutely no amount of persuasion has gotten the transmission to
                                  > budge one little millimeter further aft. The lip of the damper plate still
                                  > remains inside the bell housing, so can't access the internals to try to
                                  > spray PB Blaster or some other magic rust-dissolving goo onto the
                                  > transmission spline.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > HELP! What am I doing wrong? Something has to be wrong for it to be so
                                  > firmly stuck that two mechanics (giving it a quick look to help me out) and
                                  > I haven't been able to get it to budge.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Thanks again for everyone's helpful advice on this and other topics.
                                  > It's amazing! (Would love to see a CD-ROM of the archives, the information
                                  > is invaluable!)
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Hope you all had a great summer of sailing. It looks like if I ever
                                  > get a break from out-of-town work projects, I'll have Sheer Joy ready for
                                  > sailing next year.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Fair weather,
                                  > > > > Lesley
                                  > > > > s/v Sheer Joy - Morgan 416 O/I Ketch
                                  > > > > Bohemia River, Chesapeake
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                                  > <mailto:morganowners%40yahoogroups.com> , Mike & Kerri O'Barr <kosrae41@>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > The transmission is fairly easy to pull out. I have had mine out 3
                                  > times over the last 12 years, last time it took me lesss than an hour. 1st
                                  > bad overhaul, 2nd overhaul again, 3rd dock line wrapped around shaft and
                                  > pulled the transmission off the engine.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > If it was my boat I would overhaul or replace the transmission.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Mike
                                  > > > > > S/V Kosrae
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
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