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Schaefer Furling Unit lifts off deck

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  • Dave
    This weekend (under light airs) the furler suddently lifted off the deck, and drifted off the the leeward side of the boat. For the last few sails, furling had
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 3, 2011
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      This weekend (under light airs) the furler suddently lifted off the deck, and drifted off the the leeward side of the boat. For the last few sails, furling had been 'problematic', with indications that there was binding at the top swivel, however, it is obvious that the 'fastner' that secured the furler to the deckl was slowly turning
       
      - refer to image below
       
      It appears that the furling using is early 70's vintage, and I was not able to 'Google'/find a diagram/drawings that might show an assembly view
       
      Indications are that the 'fastner' that that disappeared when all this let go was likely a 1/2 in course nut, drilled for a roll pin. However, it might have also been a castle nut. Indications are that the hole in the nut should likely be centered between the flats which seems to rule out the castle nut.
       
      1) Does anyone have any drawings/diagrams of an assembly view?
       
      2) Is anyone familiar with this assembly enough to identify the correct fastner for replacement?

      Indications are this is the model series of the unit
       
      Dave Blakeslee
      MOI 28 Garoupa
       
       
       
    • Jim
      Dave: You are correct in assuming the lost piece was a standard s/s hex nut drilled for a roll pin! We had ours apart every winter for the past 6 years to
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 4, 2011
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        Dave:
        You are correct in assuming the lost piece was a standard s/s hex nut drilled for a roll pin!  We had ours apart every winter for the past 6 years to clean & re-lube the bearings.  Last season, however, I noticed cracks developing in the clevis which sits under the nut, so we replaced it with a new Schaefer model 650 unit
        I had to make some mods to the existing luff wire ends, but it is much smoother than the original one! We did, however, keep the original upper spinner.  For some reason, it seems to resist wrapping around the forward stay better than the new one.  I suppose your upper spinner also has that wire bail that captures the stay?  The new Schaefer spinner doesn't have that, and for some reason, it wants to wrap - especially when we really, really need to furl! 
        BTW, if you've never checked the upper spinner bearing, you probably should!  It tends to rust after some time.  Replacement bearings are cheap and can be found at most any decent bearing house.  If you need, I have the part number...

        Jim & Barb s/v: 'The Merry Bee' Ocean Gate, NJ
      • Dave
        Jim,    thanks for the info on the furler. In searching for documentation on it, I had stumbled on the 650 series you have purchased. Recently the jib had
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 6, 2011
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          Jim,
           
           thanks for the info on the furler. In searching for documentation on it, I had stumbled on the 650 series you have purchased. Recently the jib had been twisting up near the top, even though the swivel seems to work fine when you drop the sail.
           
          Not sure what you mean by a bail up at the top...I have a strange arrangement, which I've yet to capture in a zoom photo shot dockside. I try to send it along to you so we can compare
           
          Do you happen to have any drawings/diagrams for the furler showing parts (I noted you mentioned you have bearing part no.s)?
           
          Dave


          --- On Mon, 7/4/11, Jim <jamaroldo@...> wrote:

          From: Jim <jamaroldo@...>
          Subject: [morganowners] Re:Schaefer Furling Unit
          To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Monday, July 4, 2011, 9:12 PM

           
          Dave:
          You are correct in assuming the lost piece was a standard s/s hex nut drilled for a roll pin!  We had ours apart every winter for the past 6 years to clean & re-lube the bearings.  Last season, however, I noticed cracks developing in the clevis which sits under the nut, so we replaced it with a new Schaefer model 650 unit
          I had to make some mods to the existing luff wire ends, but it is much smoother than the original one! We did, however, keep the original upper spinner.  For some reason, it seems to resist wrapping around the forward stay better than the new one.  I suppose your upper spinner also has that wire bail that captures the stay?  The new Schaefer spinner doesn't have that, and for some reason, it wants to wrap - especially when we really, really need to furl! 
          BTW, if you've never checked the upper spinner bearing, you probably should!  It tends to rust after some time.  Replacement bearings are cheap and can be found at most any decent bearing house.  If you need, I have the part number...

          Jim & Barb s/v: 'The Merry Bee' Ocean Gate, NJ
        • jamaroldo@comcast.net
          Sorry Dave, but I don t have any pics of this unit. Since it s so old, I don t know if pics would matter anyway... However, if your jib is twisting around the
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 7, 2011
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            Sorry Dave, but I don't have any pics of this unit. Since it's so old, I don't know if pics would matter anyway...

            However, if your jib is twisting around the forestay I would suspect the thrust bearing in the spinner.  Try releasing some of the tension on the jib halyard before furling... does that help?  If so, I would expect the bearing is bad.  I found The NICE # 602 thrust bearing to be the original (ID=0.375", OD= 1.047") to be the one that fits.  You mention that it spins freely once you drop the sail? Well, understand this is a thrust bearing with hundreds of pounds of pressure on it during operation.  You can't come close to that with the unit in your hands!  I tried cleaning and regreasing the original unit - didn't work!  Don't worry, the bearing is not expensive; I got 2 for under $20.00!

            I'm going down to the marina now... I'll try to get a pic of the spinner for you...

            Jim


            From: "Dave" <dbts2000@...>
            To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2011 9:17:01 PM
            Subject: Re: [morganowners] Re:Schaefer Furling Unit

             

            Jim,
             
             thanks for the info on the furler. In searching for documentation on it, I had stumbled on the 650 series you have purchased. Recently the jib had been twisting up near the top, even though the swivel seems to work fine when you drop the sail.
             
            Not sure what you mean by a bail up at the top...I have a strange arrangement, which I've yet to capture in a zoom photo shot dockside. I try to send it along to you so we can compare
             
            Do you happen to have any drawings/diagrams for the furler showing parts (I noted you mentioned you have bearing part no.s)?
             
            Dave


            --- On Mon, 7/4/11, Jim <jamaroldo@...> wrote:

            From: Jim <jamaroldo@...>
            Subject: [morganowners] Re:Schaefer Furling Unit
            To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Monday, July 4, 2011, 9:12 PM

             
            Dave:
            You are correct in assuming the lost piece was a standard s/s hex nut drilled for a roll pin!  We had ours apart every winter for the past 6 years to clean & re-lube the bearings.  Last season, however, I noticed cracks developing in the clevis which sits under the nut, so we replaced it with a new Schaefer model 650 unit
            I had to make some mods to the existing luff wire ends, but it is much smoother than the original one! We did, however, keep the original upper spinner.  For some reason, it seems to resist wrapping around the forward stay better than the new one.  I suppose your upper spinner also has that wire bail that captures the stay?  The new Schaefer spinner doesn't have that, and for some reason, it wants to wrap - especially when we really, really need to furl! 
            BTW, if you've never checked the upper spinner bearing, you probably should!  It tends to rust after some time.  Replacement bearings are cheap and can be found at most any decent bearing house.  If you need, I have the part number...

            Jim & Barb s/v: 'The Merry Bee' Ocean Gate, NJ

          • jbr1948@comcast.net
            FYI--Item #180700928679   ends on Aug. 1 @ 3:55 PM (EDT) Subject classic Morgan 30 of 1968 (its *not an Out Island) is first listed, with 12
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 26, 2011
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              FYI--Item #180700928679   ends on Aug. 1 @ 3:55 PM (EDT)
              Subject "classic" Morgan 30 of 1968 (its *not an Out Island) is first listed, with 12 photos, positive sounding info & equipment; Atomic 4 recently rebuilt; good sails.
              No clues on how high the Reserve is; its now bid at $2,000.  Might be worth careful inspection by the right sailor (we've got too many boats!).
              Good sailing,  John Reeves   M- 28   Virginia
            • jamaroldo
              Sorry for the delay, but I just posted a pic of the original Schaeffer top spinner showing the bail that holds it to the forestay. Look familiar?
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 7, 2011
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                Sorry for the delay, but I just posted a pic of the original Schaeffer top spinner showing the bail that holds it to the forestay. Look familiar?

                --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, Dave <dbts2000@...> wrote:
                >
                > Jim,
                >  
                >  thanks for the info on the furler. In searching for documentation on it, I had stumbled on the 650 series you have purchased. Recently the jib had been twisting up near the top, even though the swivel seems to work fine when you drop the sail.
                >  
                > Not sure what you mean by a bail up at the top...I have a strange arrangement, which I've yet to capture in a zoom photo shot dockside. I try to send it along to you so we can compare
                >  
                > Do you happen to have any drawings/diagrams for the furler showing parts (I noted you mentioned you have bearing part no.s)?
                >  
                > Dave
                >
                >
                > --- On Mon, 7/4/11, Jim <jamaroldo@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > From: Jim <jamaroldo@...>
                > Subject: [morganowners] Re:Schaefer Furling Unit
                > To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Monday, July 4, 2011, 9:12 PM
                >
                >
                >  
                >
                >
                >
                > Dave:
                > You are correct in assuming the lost piece was a standard s/s hex nut drilled for a roll pin!  We had ours apart every winter for the past 6 years to clean & re-lube the bearings.  Last season, however, I noticed cracks developing in the clevis which sits under the nut, so we replaced it with a new Schaefer model 650 unit.  I had to make some mods to the existing luff wire ends, but it is much smoother than the original one! We did, however, keep the original upper spinner.  For some reason, it seems to resist wrapping around the forward stay better than the new one.  I suppose your upper spinner also has that wire bail that captures the stay?  The new Schaefer spinner doesn't have that, and for some reason, it wants to wrap - especially when we really, really need to furl! 
                > BTW, if you've never checked the upper spinner bearing, you probably should!  It tends to rust after some time.  Replacement bearings are cheap and can be found at most any decent bearing house.  If you need, I have the part number...
                >
                >
                > Jim & Barb s/v: 'The Merry Bee' Ocean Gate, NJ
                >
              • Dave
                Jim (all), I m getting closer to taking the plunge on a new furling unit; having close to giving up on the top swivel on the original installation.    Are
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 22, 2011
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                  Jim (all), I'm getting closer to taking the plunge on a new furling unit; having close to giving up on the top swivel on the original installation.
                   
                   Are you generally happy with your Schaefer 'free flying' furling unit model 650? - wire luff style furler (installed separately from headstay)
                  Are you able to partially furl (reef) the jib/genny?
                  I like the concept of being able to lower the Genny/furling rig in bad weather, run up a stay and storm sail in it's place
                   
                   I'm a little concerned about getting back into headsail twisting issues as I try to deploy or roll up the sail. On another boat I have experienced the joy of not being able to furl the genny in a 25+ knot breeze with the bow 'burying'....where the boat had a 'conventional furler'
                   
                  Anyone have any comments/observations/experiences with these type of furling systems; Schaefer or other ??
                   
                  Dave
                   
                  MOI28 Garoupa

                  From: jamaroldo <jamaroldo@...>
                  To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, August 7, 2011 1:20 PM
                  Subject: [morganowners] Re:Schaefer Furling Unit

                   
                  Sorry for the delay, but I just posted a pic of the original Schaeffer top spinner showing the bail that holds it to the forestay. Look familiar?

                  --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, Dave <dbts2000@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Jim,
                  >  
                  >  thanks for the info on the furler. In searching for documentation on it, I had stumbled on the 650 series you have purchased. Recently the jib had been twisting up near the top, even though the swivel seems to work fine when you drop the sail.
                  >  
                  > Not sure what you mean by a bail up at the top...I have a strange arrangement, which I've yet to capture in a zoom photo shot dockside. I try to send it along to you so we can compare
                  >  
                  > Do you happen to have any drawings/diagrams for the furler showing parts (I noted you mentioned you have bearing part no.s)?
                  >  
                  > Dave
                  >
                  >
                  > --- On Mon, 7/4/11, Jim <jamaroldo@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > From: Jim <jamaroldo@...>
                  > Subject: [morganowners] Re:Schaefer Furling Unit
                  > To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Monday, July 4, 2011, 9:12 PM

                  > Dave:
                  > You are correct in assuming the lost piece was a standard s/s hex nut drilled for a roll pin!  We had ours apart every winter for the past 6 years to clean & re-lube the bearings.  Last season, however, I noticed cracks developing in the clevis which sits under the nut, so we replaced it with a new Schaefer model 650 unit.  I had to make some mods to the existing luff wire ends, but it is much smoother than the original one! We did, however, keep the original upper spinner.  For some reason, it seems to resist wrapping around the forward stay better than the new one.  I suppose your upper spinner also has that wire bail that captures the stay?  The new Schaefer spinner doesn't have that, and for some reason, it wants to wrap - especially when we really, really need to furl! 
                  > BTW, if you've never checked the upper spinner bearing, you probably should!  It tends to rust after some time.  Replacement bearings are cheap and can be found at most any decent bearing house.  If you need, I have the part number...
                  >
                  >
                  > Jim & Barb s/v: 'The Merry Bee' Ocean Gate, NJ
                  >



                • Jim
                  Dave: Sorry for the delay in getting back, but to answer your question, yes, I m quite pleased with this furler. The only time we have problems with twisting
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 30, 2011
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                    Dave:
                    Sorry for the delay in getting back, but to answer your question, yes, I'm quite pleased with this furler.  The only time we have problems with twisting is when we: a) have extreme tension on the jib halyard, or b) if we're sailing off the wind on a beam reach in rowdy conditions where the jib tries to fly around the headstay as soon as we release the sheet.  In either case it is a simple fix: either turn up higher and/or release some of the halyard tension prior to rolling up the jib.  Hope this helps...


                    On 8/22/2011 7:29 PM, Dave wrote:  
                    Jim (all), I'm getting closer to taking the plunge on a new furling unit; having close to giving up on the top swivel on the original installation.
                     
                     Are you generally happy with your Schaefer 'free flying' furling unit model 650? - wire luff style furler (installed separately from headstay)
                    Are you able to partially furl (reef) the jib/genny?
                    I like the concept of being able to lower the Genny/furling rig in bad weather, run up a stay and storm sail in it's place
                     
                     I'm a little concerned about getting back into headsail twisting issues as I try to deploy or roll up the sail. On another boat I have experienced the joy of not being able to furl the genny in a 25+ knot breeze with the bow 'burying'....where the boat had a 'conventional furler'
                     
                    Anyone have any comments/observations/experiences with these type of furling systems; Schaefer or other ??
                     
                    Dave
                     
                    MOI28 Garoupa


                  • Dave
                    Thanks Jim, talked to Schaefer; they sent me a PDF of the assembly and rigging diagram - I sprung for one of these units.....thanks for all your help   Dave
                    Message 9 of 10 , Aug 31, 2011
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                      Thanks Jim, talked to Schaefer; they sent me a PDF of the assembly and rigging diagram - I sprung for one of these units.....thanks for all your help
                       
                      Dave

                      From: Jim <jamaroldo@...>
                      To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 6:02 PM
                      Subject: Re: [morganowners] Schaefer Furling Unit - model 650 - others?

                       
                      Dave:
                      Sorry for the delay in getting back, but to answer your question, yes, I'm quite pleased with this furler.  The only time we have problems with twisting is when we: a) have extreme tension on the jib halyard, or b) if we're sailing off the wind on a beam reach in rowdy conditions where the jib tries to fly around the headstay as soon as we release the sheet.  In either case it is a simple fix: either turn up higher and/or release some of the halyard tension prior to rolling up the jib.  Hope this helps...


                      On 8/22/2011 7:29 PM, Dave wrote:
                       
                      Jim (all), I'm getting closer to taking the plunge on a new furling unit; having close to giving up on the top swivel on the original installation.
                       
                       Are you generally happy with your Schaefer 'free flying' furling unit model 650? - wire luff style furler (installed separately from headstay)
                      Are you able to partially furl (reef) the jib/genny?
                      I like the concept of being able to lower the Genny/furling rig in bad weather, run up a stay and storm sail in it's place
                       
                       I'm a little concerned about getting back into headsail twisting issues as I try to deploy or roll up the sail. On another boat I have experienced the joy of not being able to furl the genny in a 25+ knot breeze with the bow 'burying'....where the boat had a 'conventional furler'
                       
                      Anyone have any comments/observations/experiences with these type of furling systems; Schaefer or other ??
                       
                      Dave
                       
                      MOI28 Garoupa




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