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Re: [morganowners] Re: Morgan 40 Specs

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  • Charlie Dog
    You are absolutely right. Charley owns the design rights, but the measurements are available to anyone who wants to take the lines off the boat. I have no
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 1, 2011
      You are absolutely right. Charley owns the design rights, but the measurements are available to anyone who wants to take the lines off the boat. I have no intention of building an unauthorized M40, not even a model!
       
      My reason for wanting the offsets is I am considering having the keel modified in order to improve the upwind performance. It will save me a good deal of money if I can put my hands on them. A naval architect will need these measurements in order to design the new keel shape. As many are aware, the M40 ketch is an evolution of the M41 sloop. The M41 was designed under the CCA rule and had a keel/centreboard. I suppose to simplify things for cruising crowd that would buy the M40, Charley dispensed with the board. Unfortunately that means the boat doesn't do very well on the wind, especially if it goes to more than 15 degrees of heel.
       
      If anyone can help me, I would be most grateful.
       
      Thanks,
       
      Charlie
       
       
       
      --- On Tue, 3/1/11, Karl Burton <kburton@...> wrote:

      From: Karl Burton <kburton@...>
      Subject: Re: [morganowners] Re: Morgan 40 Specs
      To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
      Received: Tuesday, March 1, 2011, 12:10 AM

       
      Well, sort of.  It's not really proprietary in the sense that all you need to do is haul the boat and measure it.  That's like saying that the measurement between the tail fins on a '59 Cadillac is proprietary.  The information is public domain, in that it cannot be a secret.  There may be proprietary issues in terms of the USE of it - but the information itself isn't an issue.

      It would help if we knew what information was wanted, and why?  Are we looking for the particular measurements that are needed for an IOR certificate?   An estimate of these might be around somewhere, lets say if you wanted to know roughly how an M40 would rate - but IIRC, if you want to get a real IOR measurement, you'll have to haul the boat and get an official measurer.

      Or are we wanting  to build a model?


      t 10:34 PM 2/28/2011, you wrote:

      What you are asking for is proprietary information from the designer. The design may be close to 50 years old but it's still Charley's work product.

      --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, Charlie Dog <tessathackeray@...> wrote:
      >
      > Doug,
      > Â
      > I appreciate your interest. I am looking for more detailed measurements that define the shape of the hull.
      > Â
      > Thanks again.
      > Â
      > Â
      > Â
      > Â
      > Â
      > --- On Sat, 2/26/11, Doug von Borstel <dvonborstel@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: Doug von Borstel <dvonborstel@...>
      > Subject: Re: [morganowners] Re: Morgan 40 Specs
      > To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
      > Received: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 4:07 PM
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Here is some specs that I have taken from drawing from the Morgan Yacht Corp.  Drawing title is "40' 2" CRUISING KETCH, OUTBOARD PROFILE & SAIL PLAN" and is stamped preliminary.
      > Â
      > Length overall  40' 2"
      > Load waterline length 30' 0"
      > beam 11' 3"
      > draft 4' 2"
      > designed displacement at LWL (approx) 22,000 lbs.
      > ballast cast lead (approx) 8,000 lbs.
      > sail area (mainsail, mizzen & 100% of fore triagle) 750 sq.ft.
      > mast height above DWL (approx) 51' 0"
      > Â
      > I'm not sure if this has the detail you need but I thought I would send it along anyway.
      > Â
      > Doug von Borstel
      > Morgan 40, Windbender
      > Â
      > Â
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: tessathackeray
      > To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 8:16 PM
      > Subject: [morganowners] Re: Morgan 40 Specs
      >
      >  
      >
      > I appreciate this info.
      >
      > I'll send them a note to find out if they can help.
      >
      > Thanks again.
      >
      > --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, "sv_avante_452" <svavante@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I don't know how current this information is but I am told that this is a possible source for Morgan plans and manuals (From the Chesapeake Morgan Owners Association web site - http://www.neris.com/cma/index.shtml).
      > >
      > > Morgan Marine (Catalina Yachts)
      > > 7200 Brian Dairy Rd. Largo, FL 34647
      > > Tel: 727-544-6681
      > > Warren Pandy: warren@
      > > Toni Carlton: toni@
      > >
      > > Best of luck.
      > > Capt. Tom
      > > S/V Avante
      > > M-452
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, "tessathackeray" <tessathackeray@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I am looking for a complete set of offset meaurements or plans for the Morgan 40 aft cockpit ketch. I also need stability numbers. It has been suggested that an IOR or IMS measurement certificate for the boat would have the numbers I need.
      > > >
      > > > Does anyone know of one of these boats that was measured for racing under the IOR or IMS rules?
      > > >
      > > > Thanks
      > > >
      > >
      >


    • sailonedesign
      Charlie, If you are looking for a keel fairing or templates then a firm like Compukeel (http://computerkeels.com/computer.htm) would be the place to go. Top
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 1, 2011
        Charlie,

        If you are looking for a keel fairing or templates then a firm like Compukeel (http://computerkeels.com/computer.htm) would be the place to go. Top notch work. Here is the link to have a template made for your boat:

        http://computerkeels.com/unicontact.htm

        Will Museler
        Heritage West Indies 36

        --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, Charlie Dog <tessathackeray@...> wrote:
        >
        > You are absolutely right. Charley owns the design rights, but the measurements are available to anyone who wants to take the lines off the boat. I have no intention of building an unauthorized M40, not even a model!
        >  
        > My reason for wanting the offsets is I am considering having the keel modified in order to improve the upwind performance. It will save me a good deal of money if I can put my hands on them. A naval architect will need these measurements in order to design the new keel shape. As many are aware, the M40 ketch is an evolution of the M41 sloop. The M41 was designed under the CCA rule and had a keel/centreboard. I suppose to simplify things for cruising crowd that would buy the M40, Charley dispensed with the board. Unfortunately that means the boat doesn't do very well on the wind, especially if it goes to more than 15 degrees of heel.
        >  
        > If anyone can help me, I would be most grateful.
        >  
        > Thanks,
        >  
        > Charlie
        >  
        >  
        >  
        > --- On Tue, 3/1/11, Karl Burton <kburton@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: Karl Burton <kburton@...>
        > Subject: Re: [morganowners] Re: Morgan 40 Specs
        > To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
        > Received: Tuesday, March 1, 2011, 12:10 AM
        >
        >
        >  
        >
        >
        >
        > Well, sort of.  It's not really proprietary in the sense that all you need to do is haul the boat and measure it.  That's like saying that the measurement between the tail fins on a '59 Cadillac is proprietary.  The information is public domain, in that it cannot be a secret.  There may be proprietary issues in terms of the USE of it - but the information itself isn't an issue.
        >
        > It would help if we knew what information was wanted, and why?  Are we looking for the particular measurements that are needed for an IOR certificate?   An estimate of these might be around somewhere, lets say if you wanted to know roughly how an M40 would rate - but IIRC, if you want to get a real IOR measurement, you'll have to haul the boat and get an official measurer.
        >
        > Or are we wanting  to build a model?
        >
        >
        > t 10:34 PM 2/28/2011, you wrote:
        >
        >
        > What you are asking for is proprietary information from the designer. The design may be close to 50 years old but it's still Charley's work product.
        >
        > --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, Charlie Dog <tessathackeray@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Doug,
        > > Â
        > > I appreciate your interest. I am looking for more detailed measurements that define the shape of the hull.
        > > Â
        > > Thanks again.
        > > Â
        > > Â
        > > Â
        > > Â
        > > Â
        > > --- On Sat, 2/26/11, Doug von Borstel <dvonborstel@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > From: Doug von Borstel <dvonborstel@>
        > > Subject: Re: [morganowners] Re: Morgan 40 Specs
        > > To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
        > > Received: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 4:07 PM
        > >
        > >
        > >  
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Here is some specs that I have taken from drawing from the Morgan Yacht Corp.  Drawing title is "40' 2" CRUISING KETCH, OUTBOARD PROFILE & SAIL PLAN" and is stamped preliminary.
        > > Â
        > > Length overall  40' 2"
        > > Load waterline length 30' 0"
        > > beam 11' 3"
        > > draft 4' 2"
        > > designed displacement at LWL (approx) 22,000 lbs.
        > > ballast cast lead (approx) 8,000 lbs.
        > > sail area (mainsail, mizzen & 100% of fore triagle) 750 sq.ft.
        > > mast height above DWL (approx) 51' 0"
        > > Â
        > > I'm not sure if this has the detail you need but I thought I would send it along anyway.
        > > Â
        > > Doug von Borstel
        > > Morgan 40, Windbender
        > > Â
        > > Â
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: tessathackeray
        > > To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 8:16 PM
        > > Subject: [morganowners] Re: Morgan 40 Specs
        > >
        > >  
        > >
        > > I appreciate this info.
        > >
        > > I'll send them a note to find out if they can help.
        > >
        > > Thanks again.
        > >
        > > --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, "sv_avante_452" <svavante@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I don't know how current this information is but I am told that this is a possible source for Morgan plans and manuals (From the Chesapeake Morgan Owners Association web site - http://www.neris.com/cma/index.shtml).
        > > >
        > > > Morgan Marine (Catalina Yachts)
        > > > 7200 Brian Dairy Rd. Largo, FL 34647
        > > > Tel: 727-544-6681
        > > > Warren Pandy: warren@
        > > > Toni Carlton: toni@
        > > >
        > > > Best of luck.
        > > > Capt. Tom
        > > > S/V Avante
        > > > M-452
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, "tessathackeray" <tessathackeray@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > I am looking for a complete set of offset meaurements or plans for the Morgan 40 aft cockpit ketch. I also need stability numbers. It has been suggested that an IOR or IMS measurement certificate for the boat would have the numbers I need.
        > > > >
        > > > > Does anyone know of one of these boats that was measured for racing under the IOR or IMS rules?
        > > > >
        > > > > Thanks
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Karl Burton
        The 40 is a long keel boat, so the keel profiling stuff wouldn t help. I would think that he s rather thinking of building some sort of wing-keel extension or
        Message 3 of 12 , Mar 1, 2011
          The 40 is a long keel boat, so the keel profiling stuff wouldn't help.  I would think that he's rather thinking of building some sort of wing-keel extension or attachment.  To tell the truth, I've thought about that in the past with my M28 - as in some sort of attachments that would improve windward performance with the board up, and I suspect, even with the board down, if you did it right. 

          If I ever had enough money to play with the notion, though, what I've always thought I'd do is create a dozen blind heavy-duty tapped holes on each side of the keel first.  Then I could fabricate all sorts of wing variants, bolt them on, and try them out.


          At 07:45 PM 3/1/2011, you wrote:
           

          Charlie,

          If you are looking for a keel fairing or templates then a firm like Compukeel ( http://computerkeels.com/computer.htm) would be the place to go. Top notch work. Here is the link to have a template made for your boat:

          http://computerkeels.com/unicontact.htm

          Will Museler
          Heritage West Indies 36

          --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, Charlie Dog <tessathackeray@...> wrote:
          >
          > You are absolutely right. Charley owns the design rights, but the measurements are available to anyone who wants to take the lines off the boat. I have no intention of building an unauthorized M40, not even a model!
          > Â
          > My reason for wanting the offsets is I am considering having the keel modified in order to improve the upwind performance. It will save me a good deal of money if I can put my hands on them. A naval architect will need these measurements in order to design the new keel shape. As many are aware, the M40 ketch is an evolution of the M41 sloop. The M41 was designed under the CCA rule and had a keel/centreboard. I suppose to simplify things for cruising crowd that would buy the M40, Charley dispensed with the board. Unfortunately that means the boat doesn't do very well on the wind, especially if it goes to more than 15 degrees of heel.
          > Â
          > If anyone can help me, I would be most grateful.
          > Â
          > Thanks,
          > Â
          > Charlie
          > Â
          > Â
          > Â
          > --- On Tue, 3/1/11, Karl Burton <kburton@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > From: Karl Burton <kburton@...>
          > Subject: Re: [morganowners] Re: Morgan 40 Specs
          > To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
          > Received: Tuesday, March 1, 2011, 12:10 AM
          >
          >
          >  
          >
          >
          >
          > Well, sort of.  It's not really proprietary in the sense that all you need to do is haul the boat and measure it.  That's like saying that the measurement between the tail fins on a '59 Cadillac is proprietary.  The information is public domain, in that it cannot be a secret.  There may be proprietary issues in terms of the USE of it - but the information itself isn't an issue.
          >
          > It would help if we knew what information was wanted, and why?  Are we looking for the particular measurements that are needed for an IOR certificate?   An estimate of these might be around somewhere, lets say if you wanted to know roughly how an M40 would rate - but IIRC, if you want to get a real IOR measurement, you'll have to haul the boat and get an official measurer.
          >
          > Or are we wanting  to build a model?
          >
          >
          > t 10:34 PM 2/28/2011, you wrote:
          >
          >
          > What you are asking for is proprietary information from the designer. The design may be close to 50 years old but it's still Charley's work product.
          >
          > --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, Charlie Dog <tessathackeray@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Doug,
          > > Â
          > > I appreciate your interest. I am looking for more detailed measurements that define the shape of the hull.
          > > Â
          > > Thanks again.
          > > Â
          > > Â
          > > Â
          > > Â
          > > Â
          > > --- On Sat, 2/26/11, Doug von Borstel <dvonborstel@> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > From: Doug von Borstel <dvonborstel@>
          > > Subject: Re: [morganowners] Re: Morgan 40 Specs
          > > To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
          > > Received: Saturday, February 26, 2011, 4:07 PM
          > >
          > >
          > >  
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Here is some specs that I have taken from drawing from the Morgan Yacht Corp.  Drawing title is "40' 2" CRUISING KETCH, OUTBOARD PROFILE & SAIL PLAN" and is stamped preliminary.
          > > Â
          > > Length overall  40' 2"
          > > Load waterline length 30' 0"
          > > beam 11' 3"
          > > draft 4' 2"
          > > designed displacement at LWL (approx) 22,000 lbs.
          > > ballast cast lead (approx) 8,000 lbs.
          > > sail area (mainsail, mizzen & 100% of fore triagle) 750 sq.ft.
          > > mast height above DWL (approx) 51' 0"
          > > Â
          > > I'm not sure if this has the detail you need but I thought I would send it along anyway.
          > > Â
          > > Doug von Borstel
          > > Morgan 40, Windbender
          > > Â
          > > Â
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: tessathackeray
          > > To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 8:16 PM
          > > Subject: [morganowners] Re: Morgan 40 Specs
          > >
          > >  
          > >
          > > I appreciate this info.
          > >
          > > I'll send them a note to find out if they can help.
          > >
          > > Thanks again.
          > >
          > > --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, "sv_avante_452" <svavante@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > I don't know how current this information is but I am told that this is a possible source for Morgan plans and manuals (From the Chesapeake Morgan Owners Association web site - http://www.neris.com/cma/index.shtml).
          > > >
          > > > Morgan Marine (Catalina Yachts)
          > > > 7200 Brian Dairy Rd. Largo, FL 34647
          > > > Tel: 727-544-6681
          > > > Warren Pandy: warren@
          > > > Toni Carlton: toni@
          > > >
          > > > Best of luck.
          > > > Capt. Tom
          > > > S/V Avante
          > > > M-452
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, "tessathackeray" <tessathackeray@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > I am looking for a complete set of offset meaurements or plans for the Morgan 40 aft cockpit ketch. I also need stability numbers. It has been suggested that an IOR or IMS measurement certificate for the boat would have the numbers I need.
          > > > >
          > > > > Does anyone know of one of these boats that was measured for racing under the IOR or IMS rules?
          > > > >
          > > > > Thanks
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >

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