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Re: [morganowners] Hope this forum can help !

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  • bryan
    5 days ago I left my boat in Marathon to get back to UK. Here is someone local who will help you. Eric at Inflatable boats next door to Tom Thumb Store
    Message 1 of 8 , May 1, 2007
      5 days ago I left my boat in Marathon to get back to  UK. Here is someone local who will help you.

      Eric at   "Inflatable boats " next door to Tom Thumb Store on overseas highway. west end of town about 25th Street.  Dont be fooled by inflatable boats title. He is experienced diesel mechanic and hell of a nice guy.

      305 743 1785 {I _think_ ) Tell him Bryan (from england ) sent you

      None of your temperatures seem too worrying tho' . If it aint broke dont fix it. But ask Eric anyway.

      Bryan (OI41 'Elusive') on the hard at Marathon

      barnesma@... wrote:
      Dave et al:
       
      Since you have had a hand at taking your motor apart  - maybe you can help me with an big issue I have at the moment.  May your or others can provide some insight.  We are stuck here in Marathon FL until we can get this all figured out ! I am on Vacation for next few weeks to bring boat from Tampa to Philly - or at least part way ! We will work on fixing this tomorrow wanted to get something out to my fellow Morgan owners. 
       
      Problem:  Boat is en route from Tampa to Philadelphia .  We pulled into Marathon today and are dockside to further investigate. The sender and temp gage at helm are Telesis and were replaced as a pair at Snead Island boat yard week of 15 April.  After leaving Bradenton , Fl. , we stopped after noticing high temperature reading from new gage.  Found some sea grass in  raw water fi lter and cleaned it out. Problem seems to persist though.  The following are temperatures that were taken using an infrared thermometer at different locations on the engine given the situation and
      Boat is en route from Tampa to Philadelphia .  We pulled into Marathon and are dockside to further investigate. The sender and temp gage at helm are Telesis and were replaced as a pair at Snead Island boat yard week of 15 April.  After leaving Bradenton , Fl. , we stopped after noticing high temperature reading from new gage.  Found some sea grass in  raw water filter and cleaned it out. Problem seems to persist though.  The following are temperatures that were taken using an infrared thermometer. We thought that there may still be a problem with the gage.   We took temperatures at different watches at three locations: where the sender is installed, temperature of the oil filter side, and the temp at the outlet of the heat exchanger at top of engine. All are showing in farenheit.
       
      Time                                         Sender Filter    Exchanger
      4/29/07 2:00 PM          1          172      204      100
      4/29/07 3:00 PM          2          180      193      108
      1/0/00 6:00 PM            3          175      178      99
      4/29/07 8:00 PM          4          171      178      103
      4/30/07 12:00 AM       5          175      175      104
      4/30/07 2:00 AM         6          167      189      106
      4/30/07 4:00 AM         7          175      179      109
      4/30/07 6:15 AM         8          168      200      108
      4/30/07 10:00 AM       9          175      200      112
      4/30/07 10:00 AM       9          172      172      109
       
      The temperatures seem to rise during loads on the engine.  Temps not so bad going south offshore in gulf with 10-15 from the north as we headed downwind to Marathon (with 3-4 foot seas not so comfortable), but it rises at other times under loads – with the temp gage showing higher temps.   We think that there is an issue with the sender and gage still – or it could be something related to the :
       
      -         Fresh water pump (41312418)
      -         Thermostat (2485613)
      -         Oil cooler ( NA003426)
      Some other observations include:
      -         We do seem to have descent raw water flow in and out of that path.
      -         We know the boat was only used 2-3 months per year for past 10+ years – there could be an issue with rust/etc during this time
       
      with the gage. We thought that there may still be a problem with the gage.   We took temperatures at different watches at three locations: where the sender is installed, temperature of the oil filter side, and the temp at the outlet of the heat exchanger at top of engine. All are showing in
      Boat is en route from Tampa to Philadelphia .  We pulled into Marathon and are dockside to further investigate. The sender and temp gage at helm are Telesis and were replaced as a pair at Snead Island boat yard week of 15 April.  After leaving Bradenton , Fl. , we stopped after noticing high temperature reading from new gage.  Found some sea grass in  raw water filter and cleaned it out. Problem seems to persist though.  The following are temperatures that were taken using an infrared thermometer. We thought that there may still be a problem with the gage.   We took temperatures at different watches at three locations: where the sender is installed, temperature of the oil filter side, and the temp at the outlet of the heat exchanger at top of engine. All are showing in farenheit.
       
      Time                                         Sender Filter    Exchanger
      4/29/07 2:00 PM          1          172      204      100
      4/29/07 3:00 PM          2          180      193      108
      1/0/00 6:00 PM            3          175      178      99
      4/29/07 8:00 PM          4          171      178      103
      4/30/07 12:00 AM       5          175      175      104
      4/30/07 2:00 AM         6          167      189      106
      4/30/07 4:00 AM         7          175      179      109
      4/30/07 6:15 AM         8          168      200      108
      4/30/07 10:00 AM       9          175      200      112
      4/30/07 10:00 AM       9          172      172      109
       
      The temperatures seem to rise during loads on the engine.  Temps not so bad going south offshore in gulf with 10-15 from the north as we headed downwind to Marathon (with 3-4 foot seas not so comfortable), but it rises at other times under loads – with the temp gage showing higher temps.   We think that there is an issue with the sender and gage still – or it could be something related to the :
       
      -         Fresh water pump (41312418)
      -         Thermostat (2485613)
      -         Oil cooler ( NA003426)
      Some other observations include:
      -         We do seem to have descent raw water flow in and out of that path.
      -         We know the boat was only used 2-3 months per year for past 10+ years – there could be an issue with rust/etc during this time
       
      .
       
      Time                                         Sender Filter    Exchanger
      4/29/07 2:00 PM          1          172      204      100
      4/29/07 3:00 PM          2          180      193      108
      1/0/00 6:00 PM            3          175      178      99
      4/29/07 8:00 PM          4          171      178      103
      4/30/07 12:00 AM       5          175      175      104
      4/30/07 2:00 AM         6          167      189      106
      4/30/07 4:00 AM         7          175      179      109
      4/30/07 6:15 AM         8          168      200      108
      4/30/07 10:00 AM       9          175      200      112
      4/30/07 10:00 AM       10         172      172      109
       
      The temperatures seem to rise during larger loads on the engine -higher RPMs.  Temps not so bad going south offshore in gulf with 10-15 from the north as we headed downwind to Marathon (with 3-4 foot seas not so comfortable), but it rises at other times under loads – with the temp gage showing higher temps.   We were running 1200 -1400 rpm at this time. We think that there is an issue with the sender and gage still – or it could be something related to the :
       
      -         Fresh water pump (41312418)
      -         Thermostat (2485613)
      -         Oil cooler ( NA003426)
      Some other observations include:
      -         We do seem to have descent raw water flow in and out - appears to come out of the exhaust with good flow.
      -         We know the boat was only used 2-3 months per year for past 10+ years – there could be an issue with rust/etc during this time
       
      Your throughts ?  Heck, can you call me if you have some thing that could be of help ?
       
      Mike Barnes,  SV Dadidoc
      610-766-0133(cell)
      From: "David V. Fansler" <david@...>
      To: <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [morganowners] Update on 4154 rebuild
      Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 00:17:32 +0000



      Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
      Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

    • barnesma@comcast.net
      Thanks everyone for reading this and getting back to me. Early morning now and we will yield to advice of our UK friend and call his contact. Answers. The
      Message 2 of 8 , May 1, 2007

        Thanks everyone for reading this and getting back to me. Early morning now and we will yield to advice of our UK friend and call his contact.

         

        Answers.  The sender and gauge were replaced because they read high temp � at the survey this was believed to be erroneous.  Seller replaced both.  Ok, hmmm, so now we have a new sender and gauge again reading 210-220 deg f. Too high.  Now we are troubleshooting dockside, suspect it to be the thermostat.  Boat sat dormant for 10 months of the year for 10+ years and there may be a failure mode/mechanism that is related.

         

        ANY replies are heartening and welcome. Thanks for taking the time to chip in � very much appreciated.  We are changing the oil filter at the moment � expect engine room  to be pretty hot by mid day ! 

         

        Call if you have a huge and novel suggestion (610-766-0133).

         

        Again, the captain ( my Dad), me (owner) and crew are thankful for this wonderful forum !

         
        -------------- Original message --------------
        From: bryan <captbryan2@...>

        5 days ago I left my boat in Marathon to get back to  UK. Here is someone local who will help you.

        Eric at   "Inflatable boats " next door to Tom Thumb Store on overseas highway. west end of town about 25th Street.  Dont be fooled by inflatable boats title. He is experienced diesel mechanic and hell of a nice guy.

        305 743 1785 {I _think_ ) Tell him Bryan (from england ) sent you

        None of your temperatures seem too worrying tho' . If it aint broke dont fix it. But ask Eric anyway.

        Bryan (OI41 'Elusive') on the hard at Marathon

        barnesma@comcast. net wrote:

        Dave et al:
         
        Since you have had a hand at taking your motor apart  - maybe you can help me with an big issue I have at the moment.  May your or others can provide some insight.  We are stuck here in Marathon FL until we can get this all figured out ! I am on Vacation for next few weeks to bring boat from Tampa to Philly - or at least part way ! We will work on fixing this tomorrow wanted to get something out to my fellow Morgan owners. 
         
        Problem:  Boat is en route from Tampa to Philadelphia .  We pulled into Marathon today and are dockside to further investigate. The sender and temp gage at helm are Telesis and were replaced as a pair at Snead Island boat yard week of 15 April.  After leaving Bradenton , Fl. , we stopped after noticing high temperature reading from new gage.  Found some sea grass in  raw water fi lter and cleaned it out. Problem seems to persist though.  The following are temperatures that were taken using an infrared thermometer at different locations on the engine given the situation and
        Boat is en route from Tampa to Philadelphia .  We pulled into Marathon and are dockside to further investigate. The sender and temp gage at helm are Telesis and were replaced as a pair at Snead Island boat yard week of 15 April.  After leaving Bradenton , Fl. , we stopped after noticing high temperature reading from new gage.  Found some sea grass in  raw water filter and cleaned it out. Problem seems to persist though.  The following are temperatures that were taken using an infrared thermometer. We thought that there may still be a problem with the gage.   We took temperatures at different watches at three locations: where the sender is installed, temperature of the oil filter side, and the temp at the outlet of the heat exchanger at top of engine. All are showing in farenheit.
        Time                                         Sender Filter    Exchanger
        4/29/07 2:00 PM          1          172      204      100
        4/29/07 3:00 PM          2          180      193      108
        1/0/00 6:00 PM            3          175      178      99
        4/29/07 8:00 PM          4          171      178      103
        4/30/07 12:00 AM       5          175      175      104
        4/30/07 2:00 AM         6          167      189      106
        4/30/07 4:00 AM         7          175      179      109
        4/30/07 6:15 AM         8          168      200      108
        4/30/07 10:00 AM       9          175      200      112
        4/30/07 10:00 AM       9          172      172      109
        The temperatures seem to rise during loads on the engine.  Temps not so bad going south offshore in gulf with 10-15 from the north as we headed downwind to Marathon (with 3-4 foot seas not so comfortable) , but it rises at other times under loads � with the temp gage showing higher temps.   We think that there is an issue with the sender and gage still � or it could be something related to the :
        -         Fresh water pump (41312418)
        -         Thermostat (2485613)
        -         Oil cooler ( NA003426)
        Some other observations include:
        -         We do seem to have descent raw water flow in and out of that path.
        -         We know the boat was only used 2-3 months per year for past 10+ years � there could be an issue with rust/etc during this time
        with the gage. We thought that there may still be a problem with the gage.   We took temperatures at different watches at three locations: where the sender is installed, temperature of the oil filter side, and the temp at the outlet of the heat exchanger at top of engine. All are showing in
        Boat is en route from Tampa to Philadelphia .  We pulled into Marathon and are dockside to further investigate. The sender and temp gage at helm are Telesis and were replaced as a pair at Snead Island boat yard week of 15 April.  After leaving Bradenton , Fl. , we stopped after noticing high temperature reading from new gage.  Found some sea grass in  raw water filter and cleaned it out. Problem seems to persist though.  The following are temperatures that were taken using an infrared thermometer. We thought that there may still be a problem with the gage.   We took temperatures at different watches at three locations: where the sender is installed, temperature of the oil filter side, and the temp at the outlet of the heat exchanger at top of engine. All are showing in farenheit.
        Time                                         Sender Filter    Exchanger
        4/29/07 2:00 PM          1          172      204      100
        4/29/07 3:00 PM          2          180      193      108
        1/0/00 6:00 PM            3          175      178      99
        4/29/07 8:00 PM          4          171      178      103
        4/30/07 12:00 AM       5          175      175      104
        4/30/07 2:00 AM         6          167      189      106
        4/30/07 4:00 AM         7          175      179      109
        4/30/07 6:15 AM         8          168      200      108
        4/30/07 10:00 AM       9          175      200      112
        4/30/07 10:00 AM       9          172      172      109
        The temperatures seem to rise during loads on the engine.  Temps not so bad going south offshore in gulf with 10-15 from the north as we headed downwind to Marathon (with 3-4 foot seas not so comfortable) , but it rises at other times under loads � with the temp gage showing higher temps.   We think that there is an issue with the sender and gage still � or it could be something related to the :
        -         Fresh water pump (41312418)
        -         Thermostat (2485613)
        -         Oil cooler ( NA003426)
        Some other observations include:
        -         We do seem to have descent raw water flow in and out of that path.
        -         We know the boat was only used 2-3 months per year for past 10+ years � there could be an issue with rust/etc during this time
        .
        Time                                         Sender Filter    Exchanger
        4/29/07 2:00 PM          1          172      204      100
        4/29/07 3:00 PM          2          180      193      108
        1/0/00 6:00 PM            3          175      178      99
        4/29/07 8:00 PM          4          171      178      103
        4/30/07 12:00 AM       5          175      175      104
        4/30/07 2:00 AM         6          167      189      106
        4/30/07 4:00 AM         7          175      179      109
        4/30/07 6:15 AM         8          168      200      108
        4/30/07 10:00 AM       9          175      200      112
        4/30/07 10:00 AM       10         172      172      109
        The temperatures seem to rise during larger loads on the engine -higher RPMs.  Temps not so bad going south offshore in gulf with 10-15 from the north as we headed downwind to Marathon (with 3-4 foot seas not so comfortable) , but it rises at other times under loads � with the temp gage showing higher temps.   We were running 1200 -1400 rpm at this time. We think that there is an issue with the sender and gage still � or it could be something related to the :
        -         Fresh water pump (41312418)
        -         Thermostat (2485613)
        -         Oil cooler ( NA003426)
        Some other observations include:
        -         We do seem to have descent raw water flow in and out - appears to come out of the exhaust with good flow.
        -         We know the boat was only used 2-3 months per year for past 10+ years � there could be an issue with rust/etc during this time
         
        Your throughts ?  Heck, can you call me if you have some thing that could be of help ?
        Mike Barnes,  SV Dadidoc
        610-766-0133( cell)
        From: "David V. Fansler" <david@dv-fansler. com>
        To: <morganowners@ yahoogroups. com>
        Subject: [morganowners] Update on 4154 rebuild
        Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 00:17:32 +0000



        Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
        Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

      • Zuzack, Tom
        Mike, I did not evaluate your data but ... Check for good raw water flow. You already stated that seems to be good. Rust or other deposits may be clogging the
        Message 3 of 8 , May 1, 2007
          Mike,

          I did not evaluate your data but ...

          Check for good raw water flow. You already stated that seems to be good.

          Rust or other deposits may be clogging the recirculating side of the cooling system. This is fairly easy to flush. You could use a radiator cleaner to help the process.

          Your heat exchanger may be clogged, either the raw or recirculating side or both. This can be disassembled and visually inspected or rodded (cleaned with soft rods such as brass).

          Your air breather may be clogged (often overlooked). Disassemble and clean.

          But more insidious and probably your problem is you may simply have air trapped in the system. There are usually three or more bleed plugs in the cooling system. One at the lower end of the head (bleed first), one on the exhaust manifold (bleed second), and one at the upper end of the head (bleed last). I think that's the order but in general it goes from lowest to highest on the engine. Air in the system may allow the system to run at normal temp under light or no load but overheat under load. Good luck.

          Tom Zuzack
          1977 Morgan Out Island 415 Ketch
          Mia's Competition
          Apollo Beach, FL.

          From: barnesma@...
          Date: 2007/04/30 Mon PM 09:19:08 CDT
          To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com, morganowners@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: "David V. Fansler" <david@...>
          Subject: [morganowners] Hope this forum can help !


          Dave et al: Since you have had a hand at taking your motor apart - maybe you can help me with an big issue I have at the moment. May your or others can provide some insight. We are stuck here in Marathon FL until we can get this all figured out ! I am on Vacation for next few weeks to bring boat from Tampa to Philly - or at least part way ! We will work on fixing this tomorrow wanted to get something out to my fellow Morgan owners.
          Problem: Boat is en route from Tampa to Philadelphia. We pulled into Marathon today and are dockside to further investigate. The sender and temp gage at helm are Telesis and were replaced as a pair at Snead Island boat yard week of 15 April. After leaving Bradenton, Fl. , we stopped after noticing high temperature reading from new gage. Found some sea grass in raw water filter and cleaned it out. Problem seems to persist though. The following are temperatures that were taken using an infrared thermometer at different locations on the engine given the situation and
          Boat is en route from Tampa to Philadelphia. We pulled into Marathon and are dockside to further investigate. The sender and temp gage at helm are Telesis and were replaced as a pair at Snead Island boat yard week of 15 April. After leaving Bradenton, Fl. , we stopped after noticing high temperature reading from new gage. Found some sea grass in raw water filter and cleaned it out. Problem seems to persist though. The following are temperatures that were taken using an infrared thermometer. We thought that there may still be a problem with the gage. We took temperatures at different watches at three locations: where the sender is installed, temperature of the oil filter side, and the temp at the outlet of the heat exchanger at top of engine. All are showing in farenheit.

          Time Sender Filter Exchanger
          4/29/07 2:00 PM 1 172 204 100
          4/29/07 3:00 PM 2 180 193 108
          1/0/00 6:00 PM 3 175 178 99
          4/29/07 8:00 PM 4 171 178 103
          4/30/07 12:00 AM 5 175 175 104
          4/30/07 2:00 AM 6 167 189 106
          4/30/07 4:00 AM 7 175 179 109
          4/30/07 6:15 AM 8 168 200 108
          4/30/07 10:00 AM 9 175 200 112
          4/30/07 10:00 AM 9 172 172 109

          The temperatures seem to rise during loads on the engine. Temps not so bad going south offshore in gulf with 10-15 from the north as we headed downwind to Marathon (with 3-4 foot seas not so comfortable), but it rises at other times under loads – with the temp gage showing higher temps. We think that there is an issue with the sender and gage still – or it could be something related to the :

          - Fresh water pump (41312418)
          - Thermostat (2485613)
          - Oil cooler ( NA003426)
          Some other observations include:
          - We do seem to have descent raw water flow in and out of that path.
          - We know the boat was only used 2-3 months per year for past 10+ years – there could be an issue with rust/etc during this time

          with the gage. We thought that there may still be a problem with the gage. We took temperatures at different watches at three locations: where the sender is installed, temperature of the oil filter side, and the temp at the outlet of the heat exchanger at top of engine. All are showing in
          Boat is en route from Tampa to Philadelphia. We pulled into Marathon and are dockside to further investigate. The sender and temp gage at helm are Telesis and were replaced as a pair at Snead Island boat yard week of 15 April. After leaving Bradenton, Fl. , we stopped after noticing high temperature reading from new gage. Found some sea grass in raw water filter and cleaned it out. Problem seems to persist though. The following are temperatures that were taken using an infrared thermometer. We thought that there may still be a problem with the gage. We took temperatures at different watches at three locations: where the sender is installed, temperature of the oil filter side, and the temp at the outlet of the heat exchanger at top of engine. All are showing in farenheit.

          Time Sender Filter Exchanger
          4/29/07 2:00 PM 1 172 204 100
          4/29/07 3:00 PM 2 180 193 108
          1/0/00 6:00 PM 3 175 178 99
          4/29/07 8:00 PM 4 171 178 103
          4/30/07 12:00 AM 5 175 175 104
          4/30/07 2:00 AM 6 167 189 106
          4/30/07 4:00 AM 7 175 179 109
          4/30/07 6:15 AM 8 168 200 108
          4/30/07 10:00 AM 9 175 200 112
          4/30/07 10:00 AM 9 172 172 109

          The temperatures seem to rise during loads on the engine. Temps not so bad going south offshore in gulf with 10-15 from the north as we headed downwind to Marathon (with 3-4 foot seas not so comfortable), but it rises at other times under loads – with the temp gage showing higher temps. We think that there is an issue with the sender and gage still – or it could be something related to the :

          - Fresh water pump (41312418)
          - Thermostat (2485613)
          - Oil cooler ( NA003426)
          Some other observations include:
          - We do seem to have descent raw water flow in and out of that path.
          - We know the boat was only used 2-3 months per year for past 10+ years – there could be an issue with rust/etc during this time

          .

          Time Sender Filter Exchanger
          4/29/07 2:00 PM 1 172 204 100
          4/29/07 3:00 PM 2 180 193 108
          1/0/00 6:00 PM 3 175 178 99
          4/29/07 8:00 PM 4 171 178 103
          4/30/07 12:00 AM 5 175 175 104
          4/30/07 2:00 AM 6 167 189 106
          4/30/07 4:00 AM 7 175 179 109
          4/30/07 6:15 AM 8 168 200 108
          4/30/07 10:00 AM 9 175 200 112
          4/30/07 10:00 AM 10 172 172 109

          The temperatures seem to rise during larger loads on the engine -higher RPMs. Temps not so bad going south offshore in gulf with 10-15 from the north as we headed downwind to Marathon (with 3-4 foot seas not so comfortable), but it rises at other times under loads – with the temp gage showing higher temps. We were running 1200 -1400 rpm at this time. We think that there is an issue with the sender and gage still – or it could be something related to the :

          - Fresh water pump (41312418)
          - Thermostat (2485613)
          - Oil cooler ( NA003426)
          Some other observations include:
          - We do seem to have descent raw water flow in and out - appears to come out of the exhaust with good flow.
          - We know the boat was only used 2-3 months per year for past 10+ years – there could be an issue with rust/etc during this time

          Your throughts ? Heck, can you call me if you have some thing that could be of help ?

          Mike Barnes, SV Dadidoc
          610-766-0133(cell)
          www.sportboards.com/dadidoc
        • Chris
          Mike, Here are my thoughts: I would say the gage and sender are good since the old ones read high and the new ones read high. My experience is gages and
          Message 4 of 8 , May 1, 2007

            Mike,

             

            Here are my thoughts:

             

            I would say the gage and sender are good since the old ones read high and the new ones read high.  My experience is gages and senders are pretty reliable.

             

            Limited use for a long period of time could be a part of the problem.   Check the following:

             

            1. Check the water level on the fresh water side.  You should have a reservoir that you can check.  Also make sure the cap is holding pressure.  If there are any rust stains below the cap it usually means there is a leak.

             

            2. You already checked the strainer but try this.  Open the strainer and then open the seacock to be sure you have good flow out the top of the strainer.  If not, you have a bag or leaves obstructing the flow into the strainer.  It doesn’t take much to restrict the flow into the strainer.

             

            3. Bleed the air out of the system via the bleed valves.  There are several on the fresh and seawater side on most engines but I don’t know for sure where they are on your engine.  The parts list should show them.

             

            3. Check the impeller for any cracks or missing parts.  Replace if there is any sign of damage.

             

            4. Check the thermostat to be sure it is opening at the right temp.  To do this remove it and put it in a bowl of water at the temp stamped on it.  If it does not open replace it.

             

            5. Check to see the water flow out your exhaust.  If it isn’t a strong flow check the exhaust elbow for any clogs.  Clean with a screw driver if it is obstructed.

             

            6. Remove the ends of the exchanger and check for plugging.  If plugged, remove and clean with wire brush and soft metal rod.  Be careful not to damage the seals at the ends and/or the tubes.  If you have trouble cleaning it take it to a shop and have it cleaned professionally.

             

            The basic philosophy I use is to try the simple stuff first.  They are usually the cause.

             

            Hope this helps.

             

            Chris

             

             

            Chris and Robin Blair

            SV Eliza


            From: morganowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto: morganowners@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of barnesma@...
            Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:45 AM
            To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com ; morganowners@yahoogroups.com
            Cc: bryan
            Subject: Re: [morganowners] Hope this forum can help !

             

            Thanks everyone for reading this and getting back to me. Early morning now and we will yield to advice of our UK friend and call his contact.

             

            Answers.  The sender and gauge were replaced because they read high temp – at the survey this was believed to be erroneous.  Seller replaced both.  Ok, hmmm, so now we have a new sender and gauge again reading 210-220 deg f. Too high.  Now we are troubleshooting dockside, suspect it to be the thermostat.  Boat sat dormant for 10 months of the year for 10+ years and there may be a failure mode/mechanism that is related.

             

            ANY replies are heartening and welcome. Thanks for taking the time to chip in – very much appreciated.  We are changing the oil filter at the moment – expect engine room  to be pretty hot by mid day ! 

             

            Call if you have a huge and novel suggestion (610-766-0133) .

             

            Again, the captain ( my Dad), me (owner) and crew are thankful for this wonderful forum !

             

            ------------ -- Original message ------------ --
            From: bryan <captbryan2@yahoo. com>

            5 days ago I left my boat in Marathon to get back to  UK . Here is someone local who will help you.

            Eric at   "Inflatable boats " next door to Tom Thumb Store on overseas highway. west end of town about 25th Street.  Dont be fooled by inflatable boats title. He is experienced diesel mechanic and hell of a nice guy.

            305 743 1785 {I _think_ ) Tell him Bryan (from england ) sent you

            None of your temperatures seem too worrying tho' . If it aint broke dont fix it. But ask Eric anyway.

            Bryan (OI41 'Elusive') on the hard at Marathon

            barnesma@comcast. net wrote:

            Dave et al:

             

            Since you have had a hand at taking your motor apart  - maybe you can help me with an big issue I have at the moment.  May your or others can provide some insight.  We are stuck here in Marathon FL until we can get this all figured out ! I am on Vacation for next few weeks to bring boat from Tampa to Philly - or at least part way ! We will work on fixing this tomorrow wanted to get something out to my fellow Morgan owners. 

             

            Problem:  Boat is en route from Tampa to Philadelphia .  We pulled into Marathon today and are dockside to further investigate. The sender and temp gage at helm are Telesis and were replaced as a pair at Snead Island boat yard week of 15 April.  After leaving Bradenton , Fl. , we stopped after noticing high temperature reading from new gage.  Found some sea grass in  raw water fi lter and cleaned it out. Problem seems to persist though.  The following are temperatures that were taken using an infrared thermometer at different locations on the engine given the situation and

            Boat is en route from Tampa to Philadelphia .  We pulled into Marathon and are dockside to further investigate. The sender and temp gage at helm are Telesis and were replaced as a pair at Snead Island boat yard week of 15 April.  After leaving Bradenton , Fl. , we stopped after noticing high temperature reading from new gage.  Found some sea grass in  raw water filter and cleaned it out. Problem seems to persist though.  The following are temperatures that were taken using an infrared thermometer. We thought that there may still be a problem with the gage.   We took temperatures at different watches at three locations: where the sender is installed, temperature of the oil filter side, and the temp at the outlet of the heat exchanger at top of engine. All are showing in farenheit.

            Time                                         Sender Filter    Exchanger

            4/29/07 2:00 PM          1          172      204      100

            4/29/07 3:00 PM          2          180      193      108

            1/0/00 6:00 PM            3          175      178      99

            4/29/07 8:00 PM          4          171      178      103

            4/30/07 12:00 AM       5          175      175      104

            4/30/07 2:00 AM         6          167      189      106

            4/30/07 4:00 AM         7          175      179      109

            4/30/07 6:15 AM         8          168      200      108

            4/30/07 10:00 AM       9          175      200      112

            4/30/07 10:00 AM       9          172      172      109

            The temperatures seem to rise during loads on the engine.  Temps not so bad going south offshore in gulf with 10-15 from the north as we headed downwind to Marathon (with 3-4 foot seas not so comfortable) , but it rises at other times under loads – with the temp gage showing higher temps.   We think that there is an issue with the sender and gage still – or it could be something related to the :

            -        

            Fresh water pump (41312418)

            -         Thermostat (2485613)

            -         Oil cooler ( NA003426)

            Some other observations include:

            -         We do seem to have descent raw water flow in and out of that path.

            -         We know the boat was only used 2-3 months per year for past 10+ years – there could be an issue with rust/etc during this time

            with the gage. We thought that there may still be a problem with the gage.   We took temperatures at different watches at three locations: where the sender is installed, temperature of the oil filter side, and the temp at the outlet of the heat exchanger at top of engine. All are showing in

            Boat is en route from Tampa to Philadelphia .  We pulled into Marathon and are dockside to further investigate. The sender and temp gage at helm are Telesis and were replaced as a pair at Snead Island boat yard week of 15 April.  After leaving Bradenton , Fl. , we stopped after noticing high temperature reading from new gage.  Found some sea grass in  raw water filter and cleaned it out. Problem seems to persist though.  The following are temperatures that were taken using an infrared thermometer. We thought that there may still be a problem with the gage.   We took temperatures at different watches at three locations: where the sender is installed, temperature of the oil filter side, and the temp at the outlet of the heat exchanger at top of engine. All are showing in farenheit.

            Time                                         Sender Filter    Exchanger

            4/29/07 2:00 PM          1          172      204      100

            4/29/07 3:00 PM          2          180      193      108

            1/0/00 6:00 PM            3          175      178      99

            4/29/07 8:00 PM          4          171      178      103

            4/30/07 12:00 AM       5          175      175      104

            4/30/07 2:00 AM         6          167      189      106

            4/30/07 4:00 AM         7          175      179      109

            4/30/07 6:15 AM         8          168      200      108

            4/30/07 10:00 AM       9          175      200      112

            4/30/07 10:00 AM       9          172      172      109

            The temperatures seem to rise during loads on the engine.  Temps not so bad going south offshore in gulf with 10-15 from the north as we headed downwind to Marathon (with 3-4 foot seas not so comfortable) , but it rises at other times under loads – with the temp gage showing higher temps.   We think that there is an issue with the sender and gage still – or it could be something related to the :

            -         Fresh water pump (41312418)

            -         Thermostat (2485613)

            -         Oil cooler ( NA003426)

            Some other observations include:

            -         We do seem to have descent raw water flow in and out of that path.

            -         We know the boat was only used 2-3 months per year for past 10+ years – there could be an issue with rust/etc during this time

            .

            Time                                         Sender Filter    Exchanger

            4/29/07 2:00 PM          1          172      204      100

            4/29/07 3:00 PM          2          180      193      108

            1/0/00 6:00 PM            3          175      178      99

            4/29/07 8:00 PM          4          171      178      103

            4/30/07 12:00 AM       5          175      175      104

            4/30/07 2:00 AM         6          167      189      106

            4/30/07 4:00 AM         7          175      179      109

            4/30/07 6:15 AM         8          168      200      108

            4/30/07 10:00 AM       9          175      200      112

            4/30/07 10:00 AM       10         172      172      109

            The temperatures seem to rise during larger loads on the engine -higher RPMs.  Temps not so bad going south offshore in gulf with 10-15 from the north as we headed downwind to Marathon (with 3-4 foot seas not so comfortable) , but it rises at other times under loads – with the temp gage showing higher temps.   We were running 1200 -1400 rpm at this time. We think that there is an issue with the sender and gage still – or it could be something related to the :

            -         Fresh water pump (41312418)

            -         Thermostat (2485613)

            -         Oil cooler ( NA003426)

            Some other observations include:

            -         We do seem to have descent raw water flow in and out - appears to come out of the exhaust with good flow.

            -         We know the boat was only used 2-3 months per year for past 10+ years – there could be an issue with rust/etc during this time

             

            Your throughts ?  Heck, can you call me if you have some thing that could be of help ?

            Mike Barnes,  SV Dadidoc

            610-766-0133( cell)

            From: "David V. Fansler" <david@dv-fansler. com>
            To: < morganowners@ yahoogroups. com >
            Subject: [morganowners] Update on 4154 rebuild
            Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 00:17:32 +0000

             



            (Message over 64 KB, truncated)
          • sailonedesign
            The temps you listed are not that far out of line for an engine under full load. As far as the suggestion below concerning an air pocket, the easy way to blow
            Message 5 of 8 , May 1, 2007
              The temps you listed are not that far out of line for an engine under
              full load. As far as the suggestion below concerning an air pocket,
              the easy way to blow out an air pocket is to rev the engine out of
              gear, this will raise the pressure and flow. If you think that the
              flow coming out of the engine is good I would go to an automotive
              store and buy a cheap mechanical engine temp gauge and sending unit.
              Hook it up to the engine and run it around the marina at different
              loads to see what you get compared to the other one. If the
              automotive looks good then I would say that your "marine" unit is
              bust.

              Will Museler
              'Delfino' West Indies 36

              --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, "Zuzack, Tom" <zuzack.tom@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Mike,
              >
              > I did not evaluate your data but ...
              >
              > Check for good raw water flow. You already stated that seems to be
              good.
              >
              > Rust or other deposits may be clogging the recirculating side of
              the cooling system. This is fairly easy to flush. You could use a
              radiator cleaner to help the process.
              >
              > Your heat exchanger may be clogged, either the raw or recirculating
              side or both. This can be disassembled and visually inspected or
              rodded (cleaned with soft rods such as brass).
              >
              > Your air breather may be clogged (often overlooked). Disassemble
              and clean.
              >
              > But more insidious and probably your problem is you may simply have
              air trapped in the system. There are usually three or more bleed
              plugs in the cooling system. One at the lower end of the head (bleed
              first), one on the exhaust manifold (bleed second), and one at the
              upper end of the head (bleed last). I think that's the order but in
              general it goes from lowest to highest on the engine. Air in the
              system may allow the system to run at normal temp under light or no
              load but overheat under load. Good luck.
              >
              > Tom Zuzack
              > 1977 Morgan Out Island 415 Ketch
              > Mia's Competition
              > Apollo Beach, FL.
              >
              > From: barnesma@...
              > Date: 2007/04/30 Mon PM 09:19:08 CDT
              > To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com, morganowners@yahoogroups.com
              > Cc: "David V. Fansler" <david@...>
              > Subject: [morganowners] Hope this forum can help !
              >
              >
              > Dave et al: Since you have had a hand at taking your motor apart -
              maybe you can help me with an big issue I have at the moment. May
              your or others can provide some insight. We are stuck here in
              Marathon FL until we can get this all figured out ! I am on Vacation
              for next few weeks to bring boat from Tampa to Philly - or at least
              part way ! We will work on fixing this tomorrow wanted to get
              something out to my fellow Morgan owners.
              > Problem: Boat is en route from Tampa to Philadelphia. We pulled
              into Marathon today and are dockside to further investigate. The
              sender and temp gage at helm are Telesis and were replaced as a pair
              at Snead Island boat yard week of 15 April. After leaving Bradenton,
              Fl. , we stopped after noticing high temperature reading from new
              gage. Found some sea grass in raw water filter and cleaned it out.
              Problem seems to persist though. The following are temperatures that
              were taken using an infrared thermometer at different locations on
              the engine given the situation and
              > Boat is en route from Tampa to Philadelphia. We pulled into
              Marathon and are dockside to further investigate. The sender and temp
              gage at helm are Telesis and were replaced as a pair at Snead Island
              boat yard week of 15 April. After leaving Bradenton, Fl. , we
              stopped after noticing high temperature reading from new gage. Found
              some sea grass in raw water filter and cleaned it out. Problem seems
              to persist though. The following are temperatures that were taken
              using an infrared thermometer. We thought that there may still be a
              problem with the gage. We took temperatures at different watches at
              three locations: where the sender is installed, temperature of the
              oil filter side, and the temp at the outlet of the heat exchanger at
              top of engine. All are showing in farenheit.
              >
              > Time Sender Filter
              Exchanger
              > 4/29/07 2:00 PM 1 172 204 100
              > 4/29/07 3:00 PM 2 180 193 108
              > 1/0/00 6:00 PM 3 175 178 99
              > 4/29/07 8:00 PM 4 171 178 103
              > 4/30/07 12:00 AM 5 175 175 104
              > 4/30/07 2:00 AM 6 167 189 106
              > 4/30/07 4:00 AM 7 175 179 109
              > 4/30/07 6:15 AM 8 168 200 108
              > 4/30/07 10:00 AM 9 175 200 112
              > 4/30/07 10:00 AM 9 172 172 109
              >
              > The temperatures seem to rise during loads on the engine. Temps
              not so bad going south offshore in gulf with 10-15 from the north as
              we headed downwind to Marathon (with 3-4 foot seas not so
              comfortable), but it rises at other times under loads – with the temp
              gage showing higher temps. We think that there is an issue with the
              sender and gage still – or it could be something related to the :
              >
              > - Fresh water pump (41312418)
              > - Thermostat (2485613)
              > - Oil cooler ( NA003426)
              > Some other observations include:
              > - We do seem to have descent raw water flow in and out of
              that path.
              > - We know the boat was only used 2-3 months per year for
              past 10+ years – there could be an issue with rust/etc during this
              time
              >
              > with the gage. We thought that there may still be a problem with
              the gage. We took temperatures at different watches at three
              locations: where the sender is installed, temperature of the oil
              filter side, and the temp at the outlet of the heat exchanger at top
              of engine. All are showing in
              > Boat is en route from Tampa to Philadelphia. We pulled into
              Marathon and are dockside to further investigate. The sender and temp
              gage at helm are Telesis and were replaced as a pair at Snead Island
              boat yard week of 15 April. After leaving Bradenton, Fl. , we
              stopped after noticing high temperature reading from new gage. Found
              some sea grass in raw water filter and cleaned it out. Problem seems
              to persist though. The following are temperatures that were taken
              using an infrared thermometer. We thought that there may still be a
              problem with the gage. We took temperatures at different watches at
              three locations: where the sender is installed, temperature of the
              oil filter side, and the temp at the outlet of the heat exchanger at
              top of engine. All are showing in farenheit.
              >
              > Time Sender Filter
              Exchanger
              > 4/29/07 2:00 PM 1 172 204 100
              > 4/29/07 3:00 PM 2 180 193 108
              > 1/0/00 6:00 PM 3 175 178 99
              > 4/29/07 8:00 PM 4 171 178 103
              > 4/30/07 12:00 AM 5 175 175 104
              > 4/30/07 2:00 AM 6 167 189 106
              > 4/30/07 4:00 AM 7 175 179 109
              > 4/30/07 6:15 AM 8 168 200 108
              > 4/30/07 10:00 AM 9 175 200 112
              > 4/30/07 10:00 AM 9 172 172 109
              >
              > The temperatures seem to rise during loads on the engine. Temps
              not so bad going south offshore in gulf with 10-15 from the north as
              we headed downwind to Marathon (with 3-4 foot seas not so
              comfortable), but it rises at other times under loads – with the temp
              gage showing higher temps. We think that there is an issue with the
              sender and gage still – or it could be something related to the :
              >
              > - Fresh water pump (41312418)
              > - Thermostat (2485613)
              > - Oil cooler ( NA003426)
              > Some other observations include:
              > - We do seem to have descent raw water flow in and out of
              that path.
              > - We know the boat was only used 2-3 months per year for
              past 10+ years – there could be an issue with rust/etc during this
              time
              >
              > .
              >
              > Time Sender Filter
              Exchanger
              > 4/29/07 2:00 PM 1 172 204 100
              > 4/29/07 3:00 PM 2 180 193 108
              > 1/0/00 6:00 PM 3 175 178 99
              > 4/29/07 8:00 PM 4 171 178 103
              > 4/30/07 12:00 AM 5 175 175 104
              > 4/30/07 2:00 AM 6 167 189 106
              > 4/30/07 4:00 AM 7 175 179 109
              > 4/30/07 6:15 AM 8 168 200 108
              > 4/30/07 10:00 AM 9 175 200 112
              > 4/30/07 10:00 AM 10 172 172 109
              >
              > The temperatures seem to rise during larger loads on the engine -
              higher RPMs. Temps not so bad going south offshore in gulf with 10-
              15 from the north as we headed downwind to Marathon (with 3-4 foot
              seas not so comfortable), but it rises at other times under loads –
              with the temp gage showing higher temps. We were running 1200 -1400
              rpm at this time. We think that there is an issue with the sender and
              gage still – or it could be something related to the :
              >
              > - Fresh water pump (41312418)
              > - Thermostat (2485613)
              > - Oil cooler ( NA003426)
              > Some other observations include:
              > - We do seem to have descent raw water flow in and out -
              appears to come out of the exhaust with good flow.
              > - We know the boat was only used 2-3 months per year for
              past 10+ years – there could be an issue with rust/etc during this
              time
              >
              > Your throughts ? Heck, can you call me if you have some thing that
              could be of help ?
              >
              > Mike Barnes, SV Dadidoc
              > 610-766-0133(cell)
              > www.sportboards.com/dadidoc
              >
            • Merlin Clark
              Will, Barnsma later wrote that with new sender and gauge again reading 210-220 deg f. Too high- should be running about 180-185. Merlin ... === message
              Message 6 of 8 , May 2, 2007
                Will,
                "Barnsma" later wrote that with "new sender and gauge
                again reading 210-220 deg f."
                Too high- should be running about 180-185.
                Merlin
                --- sailonedesign <sailonedesign@...> wrote:

                > The temps you listed are not that far out of line
                > for an engine under
                > full load. As far as the suggestion below
                > concerning an air pocket,
                > the easy way to blow out an air pocket is to rev the
                > engine out of
                > gear, this will raise the pressure and flow. If you
                > think that the
                > flow coming out of the engine is good I would go to
                > an automotive
                > store and buy a cheap mechanical engine temp gauge
                > and sending unit.
                > Hook it up to the engine and run it around the
                > marina at different
                > loads to see what you get compared to the other one.
                > If the
                > automotive looks good then I would say that your
                > "marine" unit is
                > bust.
                >
                > Will Museler
                > 'Delfino' West Indies 36
                >
                > --- In morganowners@yahoogroups.com, "Zuzack, Tom"
                > <zuzack.tom@...>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Mike,
                > >
                > > I did not evaluate your data but ...
                > >
                > > Check for good raw water flow. You already stated
                > that seems to be
                > good.
                > >
                > > Rust or other deposits may be clogging the
                > recirculating side of
                > the cooling system. This is fairly easy to flush.
                > You could use a
                > radiator cleaner to help the process.
                > >
                > > Your heat exchanger may be clogged, either the raw
                > or recirculating
                > side or both. This can be disassembled and visually
                > inspected or
                > rodded (cleaned with soft rods such as brass).
                > >
                > > Your air breather may be clogged (often
                > overlooked). Disassemble
                > and clean.
                > >
                > > But more insidious and probably your problem is
                > you may simply have
                > air trapped in the system. There are usually three
                > or more bleed
                > plugs in the cooling system. One at the lower end
                > of the head (bleed
                > first), one on the exhaust manifold (bleed second),
                > and one at the
                > upper end of the head (bleed last). I think that's
                > the order but in
                > general it goes from lowest to highest on the
                > engine. Air in the
                > system may allow the system to run at normal temp
                > under light or no
                > load but overheat under load. Good luck.
                > >
                > > Tom Zuzack
                > > 1977 Morgan Out Island 415 Ketch
                > > Mia's Competition
                > > Apollo Beach, FL.
                > >
                > > From: barnesma@...
                > > Date: 2007/04/30 Mon PM 09:19:08 CDT
                > > To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com,
                > morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                > > Cc: "David V. Fansler" <david@...>
                > > Subject: [morganowners] Hope this forum can help !
                > >
                > >
                > > Dave et al: Since you have had a hand at taking
                > your motor apart -
                > maybe you can help me with an big issue I have at
                > the moment. May
                > your or others can provide some insight. We are
                > stuck here in
                > Marathon FL until we can get this all figured out !
                > I am on Vacation
                > for next few weeks to bring boat from Tampa to
                > Philly - or at least
                > part way ! We will work on fixing this tomorrow
                > wanted to get
                > something out to my fellow Morgan owners.
                > > Problem: Boat is en route from Tampa to
                > Philadelphia. We pulled
                > into Marathon today and are dockside to further
                > investigate. The
                > sender and temp gage at helm are Telesis and were
                > replaced as a pair
                > at Snead Island boat yard week of 15 April. After
                > leaving Bradenton,
                > Fl. , we stopped after noticing high temperature
                > reading from new
                > gage. Found some sea grass in raw water filter and
                > cleaned it out.
                > Problem seems to persist though. The following are
                > temperatures that
                > were taken using an infrared thermometer at
                > different locations on
                > the engine given the situation and
                > > Boat is en route from Tampa to Philadelphia. We
                > pulled into
                > Marathon and are dockside to further investigate.
                > The sender and temp
                > gage at helm are Telesis and were replaced as a pair
                > at Snead Island
                > boat yard week of 15 April. After leaving
                > Bradenton, Fl. , we
                > stopped after noticing high temperature reading from
                > new gage. Found
                > some sea grass in raw water filter and cleaned it
                > out. Problem seems
                > to persist though. The following are temperatures
                > that were taken
                > using an infrared thermometer. We thought that there
                > may still be a
                > problem with the gage. We took temperatures at
                > different watches at
                > three locations: where the sender is installed,
                > temperature of the
                > oil filter side, and the temp at the outlet of the
                > heat exchanger at
                > top of engine. All are showing in farenheit.
                > >
                > > Time
                > Sender Filter
                > Exchanger
                > > 4/29/07 2:00 PM 1 172 204
                > 100
                > > 4/29/07 3:00 PM 2 180 193
                > 108
                > > 1/0/00 6:00 PM 3 175 178
                > 99
                > > 4/29/07 8:00 PM 4 171 178
                > 103
                > > 4/30/07 12:00 AM 5 175 175
                > 104
                > > 4/30/07 2:00 AM 6 167 189
                > 106
                > > 4/30/07 4:00 AM 7 175 179
                > 109
                > > 4/30/07 6:15 AM 8 168 200
                > 108
                > > 4/30/07 10:00 AM 9 175 200
                > 112
                > > 4/30/07 10:00 AM 9 172 172
                > 109
                > >
                > > The temperatures seem to rise during loads on the
                > engine. Temps
                > not so bad going south offshore in gulf with 10-15
                > from the north as
                > we headed downwind to Marathon (with 3-4 foot seas
                > not so
                > comfortable), but it rises at other times under
                > loads – with the temp
                > gage showing higher temps. We think that there is
                > an issue with the
                > sender and gage still – or it could be something
                > related to the :
                > >
                > > - Fresh water pump (41312418)
                > > - Thermostat (2485613)
                > > - Oil cooler ( NA003426)
                > > Some other observations include:
                > > - We do seem to have descent raw water
                > flow in and out of
                > that path.
                > > - We know the boat was only used 2-3
                > months per year for
                > past 10+ years – there could be an issue with
                > rust/etc during this
                > time
                > >
                > > with the gage. We thought that there may still be
                > a problem with
                > the gage. We took temperatures at different
                > watches at three
                > locations: where the sender is installed,
                > temperature of the oil
                > filter side, and the temp at the outlet of the heat
                > exchanger at top
                > of engine. All are showing in
                > > Boat is en route from Tampa to Philadelphia. We
                > pulled into
                > Marathon and are dockside to further investigate.
                > The sender and temp
                > gage at helm are Telesis and were replaced as a pair
                > at Snead Island
                > boat yard week of 15 April. After leaving
                > Bradenton, Fl. , we
                >
                === message truncated ===
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