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RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement

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  • Mike & Kerri O'Barr
    The ground side does not need to be insulated. If you download the SGC tuner manual at http://www.sgcworld.com/Publications/Manuals/230man.pdf and go to page
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 1 6:08 AM
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      The ground side does not need to be insulated. If you download the SGC tuner
      manual at http://www.sgcworld.com/Publications/Manuals/230man.pdf and go to
      page 19, it describes the installation. I used the other backstay as the
      ground instead of the mast.

      Mike

      >From: "John Terry" <rs_terry@...>
      >Reply-To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
      >To: <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
      >Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
      >Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 08:06:18 -0400
      >
      >Mike,
      >
      > Does this mean you have both backstays insulated? If so, do
      >you
      >notice any directionality to the antenna. I had thought to feed both
      >backstays from the top of the mast as a sort of folded dipole, but
      >determined the directionality would be a hassle.
      >
      >
      >
      >Russ - Jacana - 43CC
      >
      >Currently in extended refit
      >
      > _____
      >
      >From: morganowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:morganowners@yahoogroups.com] On
      >Behalf Of Mike & Kerri O'Barr
      >Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 11:19 PM
      >To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Re: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
      >
      >
      >
      >We have a 416 and did a loop antenna (no ground plane). Easy instalitation
      >.The hot wire goes to
      > the port backstay and the ground connects to the starboard backstay.
      >Have
      > talked to a station over 5000 miles from us and have no plan of
      >changing
      >
      >it.
      > Used it heavily for 5 years this way. The head unit is at the nav
      >station on
      > the port side of the boat. The radio and tuner are in the aft port
      >hanging
      > locker.
      >
      >I also have an SGC but can not say I have had any problems. Have had it
      >about 7 years and it has
      > been back 3 times for repair. Luckily I bought it with the 5 year
      >warrantee and
      > all of the times was in the first 5 years. It still cost allot to have
      >it
      > shipped from the caribbean to be repaired. Next time it dies it goes
      >over the
      > side except for the tuner.
      >
      >Mike
      >Kosrae
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > _____
      >
      >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
      >
      >
      >
      >* Visit your group "morganowners
      ><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/morganowners> " on the web.
      >
      >* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      ><mailto:morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
      >
      >* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
      ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
      >
      >
      >
      > _____
      >
    • John Terry
      Mike, Ok, but did this make the antenna directional, since the ground stay is also acting (to some degree) as a reflecting element (I am picturing a beam of
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 1 6:40 AM
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        Mike,

                    Ok, but did this make the antenna directional, since the ground stay is also acting (to some degree) as a reflecting element (I am picturing a beam of sorts). Other than cost differential, why would this be better than using a “sponge-metal” plate for a ground plane, or am I looking at it wrong?

         

        Russ

         


        From: morganowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:morganowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Kerri O'Barr
        Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 9:08 AM
        To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement

         

        The ground side does not need to be insulated. If you download the SGC tuner
        manual at http://www.sgcworld.com/Publications/Manuals/230man.pdf and go to
        page 19, it describes the installation. I used the other backstay as the
        ground instead of the mast.

        Mike

        >From: "John Terry" <rs_terry@...>
        >Reply-To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
        >To: <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
        >Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
        >Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 08:06:18 -0400
        >
        >Mike,
        >
        >             Does this mean you have both backstays insulated? If so, do
        >you
        >notice any directionality to the antenna. I had thought to feed both
        >backstays from the top of the mast as a sort of folded dipole, but
        >determined the directionality would be a hassle.
        >
        >
        >
        >Russ - Jacana - 43CC
        >
        >Currently in extended refit
        >
        >   _____
        >
        >From: morganowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:morganowners@yahoogroups.com] On
        >Behalf Of Mike & Kerri O'Barr
        >Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 11:19 PM
        >To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
        >
        >
        >
        >We have a 416 and did a loop antenna (no ground plane). Easy instalitation
        >.The hot wire goes to
        >     the port backstay and the ground connects to the starboard backstay.
        >Have
        >     talked to a station over 5000 miles from us and have no plan of
        >changing
        >
        >it.
        >     Used it heavily for 5 years this way. The head unit is at the nav
        >station on
        >     the port side of the boat. The radio and tuner are in the aft port
        >hanging
        >     locker.
        >
        >I also have an SGC but can not say I have had any problems. Have had it
        >about 7 years and it has
        >     been back 3 times for repair. Luckily I bought it with the 5 year
        >warrantee and
        >     all of the times was in the first 5 years. It still cost allot to have
        >it
        >     shipped from the caribbean to be repaired. Next time it dies it goes
        >over the
        >     side except for the tuner.
        >
        >Mike
        >Kosrae
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >   _____
        >
        >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        >
        >
        >
        >*      Visit your group "morganowners
        ><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/morganowners> " on the web.
        >
        >*      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        >  morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        ><mailto:morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
        >
        >*      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
        ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.
        >
        >
        >
        >   _____
        >



      • Mike & Kerri O'Barr
        Russ, Did not notice any directional problem. I could talk to the same stations that other boats were talking to in our anchorage with the same or better
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 1 6:54 AM
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          Russ,

          Did not notice any directional problem. I could talk to the same stations
          that other boats were talking to in our anchorage with the same or better
          quality reception and transmission.

          We did it at first for the ease of insulation. We kept it because there was
          no maintenance. We did not have to clean the grounding plates and
          connections.

          Mike

          >From: "John Terry" <rs_terry@...>
          >Reply-To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
          >To: <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
          >Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
          >Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 09:40:53 -0400
          >
          >Mike,
          >
          > Ok, but did this make the antenna directional, since the
          >ground
          >stay is also acting (to some degree) as a reflecting element (I am
          >picturing
          >a beam of sorts). Other than cost differential, why would this be better
          >than using a "sponge-metal" plate for a ground plane, or am I looking at it
          >wrong?
          >
          >
          >
          >Russ
          >
          >
          >
          > _____
          >
          >From: morganowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:morganowners@yahoogroups.com] On
          >Behalf Of Mike & Kerri O'Barr
          >Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 9:08 AM
          >To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
          >
          >
          >
          >The ground side does not need to be insulated. If you download the SGC
          >tuner
          >
          >manual at http://www.sgcworld.com/Publications/Manuals/230man.pdf and go to
          >page 19, it describes the installation. I used the other backstay as the
          >ground instead of the mast.
          >
          >Mike
          >
          > >From: "John Terry" <rs_terry@...>
          > >Reply-To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
          > >To: <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
          > >Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
          > >Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 08:06:18 -0400
          > >
          > >Mike,
          > >
          > > Does this mean you have both backstays insulated? If so, do
          > >you
          > >notice any directionality to the antenna. I had thought to feed both
          > >backstays from the top of the mast as a sort of folded dipole, but
          > >determined the directionality would be a hassle.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >Russ - Jacana - 43CC
          > >
          > >Currently in extended refit
          > >
          > > _____
          > >
          > >From: morganowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:morganowners@yahoogroups.com]
          >On
          > >Behalf Of Mike & Kerri O'Barr
          > >Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 11:19 PM
          > >To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
          > >Subject: Re: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >We have a 416 and did a loop antenna (no ground plane). Easy
          >instalitation
          > >.The hot wire goes to
          > > the port backstay and the ground connects to the starboard backstay.
          > >Have
          > > talked to a station over 5000 miles from us and have no plan of
          > >changing
          > >
          > >it.
          > > Used it heavily for 5 years this way. The head unit is at the nav
          > >station on
          > > the port side of the boat. The radio and tuner are in the aft port
          > >hanging
          > > locker.
          > >
          > >I also have an SGC but can not say I have had any problems. Have had it
          > >about 7 years and it has
          > > been back 3 times for repair. Luckily I bought it with the 5 year
          > >warrantee and
          > > all of the times was in the first 5 years. It still cost allot to
          >have
          > >it
          > > shipped from the caribbean to be repaired. Next time it dies it goes
          > >over the
          > > side except for the tuner.
          > >
          > >Mike
          > >Kosrae
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > _____
          > >
          > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >* Visit your group "morganowners
          > ><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/morganowners> " on the web.
          > >
          > >* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > ><mailto:morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
          > >
          > >* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
          > ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > _____
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > _____
          >
          >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
          >
          >
          >
          >* Visit your group "morganowners
          ><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/morganowners> " on the web.
          >
          >* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          ><mailto:morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
          >
          >* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
          ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
          >
          >
          >
          > _____
          >
        • Mike & Kerri O'Barr
          Russ, Got to thinking about the directional problem. I am using the same wire to transmit that I would if I had a grounded system. We can also use the SSB when
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 1 7:11 AM
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            Russ,

            Got to thinking about the directional problem. I am using the same wire to
            transmit that I would if I had a grounded system. We can also use the SSB
            when the boat is on the hard.

            Mike

            >From: "Mike & Kerri O'Barr" <kosrae41@...>
            >Reply-To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
            >To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
            >Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 08:54:23 -0500
            >
            >Russ,
            >
            >Did not notice any directional problem. I could talk to the same stations
            >that other boats were talking to in our anchorage with the same or better
            >quality reception and transmission.
            >
            >We did it at first for the ease of insulation. We kept it because there was
            >no maintenance. We did not have to clean the grounding plates and
            >connections.
            >
            >Mike
            >
            > >From: "John Terry" <rs_terry@...>
            > >Reply-To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
            > >To: <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
            > >Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
            > >Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 09:40:53 -0400
            > >
            > >Mike,
            > >
            > > Ok, but did this make the antenna directional, since the
            > >ground
            > >stay is also acting (to some degree) as a reflecting element (I am
            > >picturing
            > >a beam of sorts). Other than cost differential, why would this be better
            > >than using a "sponge-metal" plate for a ground plane, or am I looking at
            >it
            > >wrong?
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >Russ
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > _____
            > >
            > >From: morganowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:morganowners@yahoogroups.com]
            >On
            > >Behalf Of Mike & Kerri O'Barr
            > >Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 9:08 AM
            > >To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
            > >Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >The ground side does not need to be insulated. If you download the SGC
            > >tuner
            > >
            > >manual at http://www.sgcworld.com/Publications/Manuals/230man.pdf and go
            >to
            > >page 19, it describes the installation. I used the other backstay as the
            > >ground instead of the mast.
            > >
            > >Mike
            > >
            > > >From: "John Terry" <rs_terry@...>
            > > >Reply-To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
            > > >To: <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
            > > >Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
            > > >Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 08:06:18 -0400
            > > >
            > > >Mike,
            > > >
            > > > Does this mean you have both backstays insulated? If so,
            >do
            > > >you
            > > >notice any directionality to the antenna. I had thought to feed both
            > > >backstays from the top of the mast as a sort of folded dipole, but
            > > >determined the directionality would be a hassle.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >Russ - Jacana - 43CC
            > > >
            > > >Currently in extended refit
            > > >
            > > > _____
            > > >
            > > >From: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
            >[mailto:morganowners@yahoogroups.com]
            > >On
            > > >Behalf Of Mike & Kerri O'Barr
            > > >Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 11:19 PM
            > > >To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
            > > >Subject: Re: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >We have a 416 and did a loop antenna (no ground plane). Easy
            > >instalitation
            > > >.The hot wire goes to
            > > > the port backstay and the ground connects to the starboard
            >backstay.
            > > >Have
            > > > talked to a station over 5000 miles from us and have no plan of
            > > >changing
            > > >
            > > >it.
            > > > Used it heavily for 5 years this way. The head unit is at the nav
            > > >station on
            > > > the port side of the boat. The radio and tuner are in the aft port
            > > >hanging
            > > > locker.
            > > >
            > > >I also have an SGC but can not say I have had any problems. Have had it
            > > >about 7 years and it has
            > > > been back 3 times for repair. Luckily I bought it with the 5 year
            > > >warrantee and
            > > > all of the times was in the first 5 years. It still cost allot to
            > >have
            > > >it
            > > > shipped from the caribbean to be repaired. Next time it dies it
            >goes
            > > >over the
            > > > side except for the tuner.
            > > >
            > > >Mike
            > > >Kosrae
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > _____
            > > >
            > > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >* Visit your group "morganowners
            > > ><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/morganowners> " on the web.
            > > >
            > > >* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > > morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > > ><mailto:morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
            > > >
            > > >* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
            > > ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > _____
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > _____
            > >
            > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >* Visit your group "morganowners
            > ><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/morganowners> " on the web.
            > >
            > >* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > ><mailto:morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
            > >
            > >* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
            > ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > _____
            > >
            >
            >
          • John Terry
            I suspect that, since the ground back-stay is not insulated, you are really using the entire boat for a ground-plane, much as you would by connecting to a
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 1 8:31 AM
            • 0 Attachment

              I suspect that, since the “ground” back-stay is not insulated, you are really using the entire boat for a ground-plane, much as you would by connecting to a foil network on the hull, if the foil were connected to your engine, etc. ground system. If you insulated this stay, it would probably cause the set of stays to act more as a vertical array beam and you would notice directional lobes. At any rate, it would be an interesting experiment.

               

              Do you also have a foil ground plane? Also, have you had occasion to check the SWR? I would be interested in the ratio the tuner delivers with this configuration. My morgan 43CC also has dual backstays, and I might consider such an arrangement.

               

              Russ

               


              From: morganowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:morganowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Kerri O'Barr
              Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 10:11 AM
              To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement

               

              Russ,

              Got to thinking about the directional problem. I am using the same wire to
              transmit that I would if I had a grounded system. We can also use the SSB
              when the boat is on the hard.

              Mike

              >From: "Mike & Kerri O'Barr" <kosrae41@...>
              >Reply-To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
              >To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
              >Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 08:54:23 -0500
              >
              >Russ,
              >
              >Did not notice any directional problem. I could talk to the same stations
              >that other boats were talking to in our anchorage with the same or better
              >quality reception and transmission.
              >
              >We did it at first for the ease of insulation. We kept it because there was
              >no maintenance. We did not have to clean the grounding plates and
              >connections.
              >
              >Mike
              >
              > >From: "John Terry" <rs_terry@...>
              > >Reply-To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
              > >To: <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
              > >Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
              > >Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 09:40:53 -0400
              > >
              > >Mike,
              > >
              >

              >            
              Ok, but did this make the antenna directional, since the
              > >ground
              > >stay is also acting (to some degree) as a reflecting element (I am
              > >picturing
              > >a beam of sorts). Other than cost differential, why would this be better
              > >than using a "sponge-metal" plate for a ground plane, or am I looking at
              >it
              > >wrong?
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >Russ
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >   _____
              > >
              > >From: morganowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:morganowners@yahoogroups.com]
              >On
              > >Behalf Of Mike & Kerri O'Barr
              > >Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 9:08 AM
              > >To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
              > >Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >The ground side does not need to be insulated. If you download the SGC
              > >tuner
              > >
              > >manual at http://www.sgcworld.com/Publications/Manuals/230man.pdf and go
              >to
              > >page 19, it describes the installation. I used the other backstay as the
              > >ground instead of the mast.
              > >
              > >Mike
              > >
              > > >From: "John Terry" <rs_terry@...>
              > > >Reply-To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
              > > >To: <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
              > > >Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
              > > >Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 08:06:18 -0400
              > > >
              > > >Mike,
              > > >
              > > >             Does this mean you have both backstays insulated? If so,
              >do
              > > >you
              > > >notice any directionality to the antenna. I had thought to feed both
              > > >backstays from the top of the mast as a sort of folded dipole, but
              > > >determined the directionality would be a hassle.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >Russ - Jacana - 43CC
              > > >
              > > >Currently in extended refit
              > > >
              > > >   _____
              > > >
              > > >From: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
              >[mailto:morganowners@yahoogroups.com]
              > >On
              > > >Behalf Of Mike & Kerri O'Barr
              > > >Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 11:19 PM
              > > >To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
              > > >Subject: Re: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >We have a 416 and did a loop antenna (no ground plane). Easy
              > >instalitation
              > > >.The hot wire goes to
              > > >     the port backstay and the ground connects to the starboard
              >backstay.
              > > >Have
              > > >     talked to a station over 5000 miles from us and have no plan of
              > > >changing
              > > >
              > > >it.
              > > >     Used it heavily for 5 years this way. The head unit is at the nav
              > > >station on
              > > >     the port side of the boat. The radio and tuner are in the aft port
              > > >hanging
              > > >     locker.
              > > >
              > > >I also have an SGC but can not say I have had any problems. Have had it
              > > >about 7 years and it has
              > > >     been back 3 times for repair. Luckily I bought it with the 5 year
              > > >warrantee and
              > > >     all of the times was in the first 5 years. It still cost allot to
              > >have
              > > >it
              > > >     shipped from the caribbean to be repaired. Next time it dies it
              >goes
              > > >over the
              > > >     side except for the tuner.
              > > >
              > > >Mike
              > > >Kosrae
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >   _____
              > > >
              > > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >*      Visit your group "morganowners
              > > ><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/morganowners> " on the web.
              > > >
              > > >*      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > >  morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > ><mailto:morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
              > > >
              > > >*      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
              > > ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >   _____
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >   _____
              > >
              > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >*      Visit your group "morganowners
              > ><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/morganowners> " on the web.
              > >
              > >*      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > >  morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              ><mailto:morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

              > >
              > >*      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
              > ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >   _____
              > >
              >
              >



            • Mike & Kerri O'Barr
              It does not matter that the ground back-stay is not insulated because I would have still have to run a wire above the insulator to ground the antenna. Our rig
              Message 6 of 14 , Aug 1 2:21 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                It does not matter that the ground back-stay is not insulated because I
                would have still have to run a wire above the insulator to ground the
                antenna. Our rig is not grounded and we do not have any grounding plates.

                The 416 was not ground from the factory and no one has added it in our
                boat's 23 year history. I will not get into a discussion about a lighting
                strike. The boat has spent 20 years in Florida, Caribbean, and Texas with no
                problems. I do know of an ungrounded 416 that took a lighting strike in
                Bimini and had the same damage as a grounded Whitby 42 and a grounded
                Pearson 38 in Cartegna. It fried all of the electronics on all of the boats.

                A loud whistle in the mic produces an SWR of 1.5 to 2 out of 10 and a power
                output of 9 out of 10.

                Mike

                >From: "John Terry" <rs_terry@...>
                >Reply-To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                >To: <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
                >Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
                >Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 11:31:00 -0400
                >
                >I suspect that, since the "ground" back-stay is not insulated, you are
                >really using the entire boat for a ground-plane, much as you would by
                >connecting to a foil network on the hull, if the foil were connected to
                >your
                >engine, etc. ground system. If you insulated this stay, it would probably
                >cause the set of stays to act more as a vertical array beam and you would
                >notice directional lobes. At any rate, it would be an interesting
                >experiment.
                >
                >
                >
                >Do you also have a foil ground plane? Also, have you had occasion to check
                >the SWR? I would be interested in the ratio the tuner delivers with this
                >configuration. My morgan 43CC also has dual backstays, and I might consider
                >such an arrangement.
                >
                >
                >
                >Russ
                >
                >
                >
                > _____
                >
                >From: morganowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:morganowners@yahoogroups.com] On
                >Behalf Of Mike & Kerri O'Barr
                >Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 10:11 AM
                >To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
                >
                >
                >
                >Russ,
                >
                >Got to thinking about the directional problem. I am using the same wire to
                >transmit that I would if I had a grounded system. We can also use the SSB
                >when the boat is on the hard.
                >
                >Mike
                >
                > >From: "Mike & Kerri O'Barr" <kosrae41@...>
                > >Reply-To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                > >To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                > >Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
                > >Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 08:54:23 -0500
                > >
                > >Russ,
                > >
                > >Did not notice any directional problem. I could talk to the same stations
                > >that other boats were talking to in our anchorage with the same or better
                > >quality reception and transmission.
                > >
                > >We did it at first for the ease of insulation. We kept it because there
                >was
                > >no maintenance. We did not have to clean the grounding plates and
                > >connections.
                > >
                > >Mike
                > >
                > > >From: "John Terry" <rs_terry@...>
                > > >Reply-To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                > > >To: <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
                > > >Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
                > > >Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 09:40:53 -0400
                > > >
                > > >Mike,
                > > >
                > > > Ok, but did this make the antenna directional, since the
                > > >ground
                > > >stay is also acting (to some degree) as a reflecting element (I am
                > > >picturing
                > > >a beam of sorts). Other than cost differential, why would this be
                >better
                > > >than using a "sponge-metal" plate for a ground plane, or am I looking
                >at
                > >it
                > > >wrong?
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >Russ
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > _____
                > > >
                > > >From: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                >[mailto:morganowners@yahoogroups.com]
                > >On
                > > >Behalf Of Mike & Kerri O'Barr
                > > >Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 9:08 AM
                > > >To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                > > >Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >The ground side does not need to be insulated. If you download the SGC
                > > >tuner
                > > >
                > > >manual at http://www.sgcworld.com/Publications/Manuals/230man.pdf and
                >go
                > >to
                > > >page 19, it describes the installation. I used the other backstay as
                >the
                > > >ground instead of the mast.
                > > >
                > > >Mike
                > > >
                > > > >From: "John Terry" <rs_terry@...>
                > > > >Reply-To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                > > > >To: <morganowners@yahoogroups.com>
                > > > >Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
                > > > >Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 08:06:18 -0400
                > > > >
                > > > >Mike,
                > > > >
                > > > > Does this mean you have both backstays insulated? If so,
                > >do
                > > > >you
                > > > >notice any directionality to the antenna. I had thought to feed both
                > > > >backstays from the top of the mast as a sort of folded dipole, but
                > > > >determined the directionality would be a hassle.
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >Russ - Jacana - 43CC
                > > > >
                > > > >Currently in extended refit
                > > > >
                > > > > _____
                > > > >
                > > > >From: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                > >[mailto:morganowners@yahoogroups.com]
                > > >On
                > > > >Behalf Of Mike & Kerri O'Barr
                > > > >Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 11:19 PM
                > > > >To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                > > > >Subject: Re: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >We have a 416 and did a loop antenna (no ground plane). Easy
                > > >instalitation
                > > > >.The hot wire goes to
                > > > > the port backstay and the ground connects to the starboard
                > >backstay.
                > > > >Have
                > > > > talked to a station over 5000 miles from us and have no plan of
                > > > >changing
                > > > >
                > > > >it.
                > > > > Used it heavily for 5 years this way. The head unit is at the
                >nav
                > > > >station on
                > > > > the port side of the boat. The radio and tuner are in the aft
                >port
                > > > >hanging
                > > > > locker.
                > > > >
                > > > >I also have an SGC but can not say I have had any problems. Have had
                >it
                > > > >about 7 years and it has
                > > > > been back 3 times for repair. Luckily I bought it with the 5
                >year
                > > > >warrantee and
                > > > > all of the times was in the first 5 years. It still cost allot
                >to
                > > >have
                > > > >it
                > > > > shipped from the caribbean to be repaired. Next time it dies it
                > >goes
                > > > >over the
                > > > > side except for the tuner.
                > > > >
                > > > >Mike
                > > > >Kosrae
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > _____
                > > > >
                > > > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >* Visit your group "morganowners
                > > > ><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/morganowners> " on the web.
                > > > >
                > > > >* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > > > morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > > > ><mailto:morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                > > > >
                > > > >* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                > > > ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > _____
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > _____
                > > >
                > > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >* Visit your group "morganowners
                > > ><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/morganowners> " on the web.
                > > >
                > > >* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > > morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > > ><mailto:morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                > > >
                > > >* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                > > ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > _____
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > _____
                >
                >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                >
                >
                >
                >* Visit your group "morganowners
                ><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/morganowners> " on the web.
                >
                >* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                ><mailto:morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                >
                >* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
                >
                >
                >
                > _____
                >
              • John Terry
                Mike, With that level of SWR, it appears that the tuner is doing its job. I am still of two minds about a lightening ground system. I suspect that there are
                Message 7 of 14 , Aug 2 4:54 AM
                • 0 Attachment

                  Mike,

                  With that level of SWR, it appears that the tuner is doing its job.

                   

                  I am still of two minds about a lightening ground system. I suspect that there are too many amps and the surge time is too short for there to be much effect from bonding everything together. I remember my father relating a lightening strike on his ham rig. He had grounded the feedline with a heavy knife-blade switch well away from the trailer in which they were living. When it struck. The burst jumped the ground, arced across the open contacts (4”), cami into the trailer, blew apart the transceiver and jumped 6-8’ across the room to destroy the sink and drain pipe. I am not sure what the damage would have been had the feedline not been isolated to ground. Perhaps more damage to the trailer, perhaps not. A phrase I keep in mind is, “Avoid the dangers that are not yet seen”.

                  Russ

                   


                  From: morganowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto: morganowners@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Mike & Kerri O'Barr
                  Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 5:22 PM
                  To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement

                   

                  It does not matter that the ground back-stay is not insulated because I
                  would have still have to run a wire above the insulator to ground the
                  antenna. Our rig is not grounded and we do not have any grounding plates.

                  The 416 was not ground from the factory and no one has added it in our
                  boat's 23 year history. I will not get into a discussion about a lighting
                  strike. The boat has spent 20 years in Florida , Caribbean, and Texas with no
                  problems. I do know of an ungrounded 416 that took a lighting strike in
                  Bimini and had the same damage as a grounded Whitby 42 and a grounded
                  Pearson 38 in Cartegna. It fried all of the electronics on all of the boats.

                  A loud whistle in the mic produces an SWR of 1.5 to 2 out of 10 and a power
                  output of 9 out of 10.

                  Mike

                  >From: "John Terry" <rs_terry@...>
                  >Reply-To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                  >To: < morganowners@yahoogroups.com >
                  >Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
                  >Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 11:31:00 -0400
                  >
                  >I suspect that, since the "ground" back-stay is not insulated, you are
                  >really using the entire boat for a ground-plane, much as you would by
                  >connecting to a foil network on the hull, if the foil were connected to
                  >your
                  >engine, etc. ground system. If you insulated this stay, it would probably
                  >cause the set of stays to act more as a vertical array beam and you would
                  >notice directional lobes. At any rate, it would be an interesting
                  >experiment.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >Do you also have a foil ground plane? Also, have you had occasion to check
                  >the SWR? I would be interested in the ratio the tuner delivers with this
                  >configuration. My morgan 43CC also has dual backstays, and I might consider
                  >such an arrangement.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >Russ
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >   _____
                  >
                  >From: morganowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto: morganowners@yahoogroups.com ] On
                  >Behalf Of Mike & Kerri O'Barr
                  >Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 10:11 AM
                  >To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >Russ,
                  >
                  >Got to thinking about the directional problem. I am using the same wire to
                  >transmit that I would if I had a grounded system. We can also use the SSB
                  >when the boat is on the hard.
                  >
                  >Mike
                  >
                  > >From: "Mike & Kerri O'Barr" <kosrae41@...>
                  > >Reply-To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                  > >To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                  > >Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
                  > >Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 08:54:23 -0500
                  > >
                  > >Russ,
                  > >
                  > >Did not notice any directional problem. I could talk to the same stations
                  > >that other boats were talking to in our anchorage with the same or better
                  > >quality reception and transmission.
                  > >
                  > >We did it at first for the ease of insulation. We kept it because there
                  >was
                  > >no maintenance. We did not have to clean the grounding plates and
                  > >connections.
                  > >
                  > >Mike
                  > >
                  > > >From: "John Terry" <rs_terry@...>
                  > > >Reply-To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                  > > >To: < morganowners@yahoogroups.com >
                  > > >Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
                  > > >Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 09:40:53 -0400
                  > > >
                  > > >Mike,
                  > > >
                  > >

                  >            
                  Ok, but did this make the antenna directional, since the
                  > > >ground
                  > > >stay is also acting (to some degree) as a reflecting element (I am
                  > > >picturing
                  > > >a beam of sorts). Other than cost differential, why would this be
                  >better
                  > > >than using a "sponge-metal" plate for a ground plane, or am I looking
                  >at
                  > >it
                  > > >wrong?
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >Russ
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >   _____
                  > > >
                  > > >From: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                  >[mailto: morganowners@yahoogroups.com ]
                  > >On
                  > > >Behalf Of Mike & Kerri O'Barr
                  > > >Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 9:08 AM
                  > > >To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                  > > >Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >The ground side does not need to be insulated. If you download the SGC
                  > > >tuner
                  > > >
                  > > >manual at http://www.sgcworld.com/Publications/Manuals/230man.pdf and
                  >go
                  > >to
                  > > >page 19, it describes the installation. I used the other backstay as
                  >the
                  > > >ground instead of the mast.
                  > > >
                  > > >Mike
                  > > >
                  > > > >From: "John Terry" <rs_terry@...>
                  > > > >Reply-To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > >To: < morganowners@yahoogroups.com >
                  > > > >Subject: RE: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
                  > > > >Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 08:06:18 -0400
                  > > > >
                  > > > >Mike,
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  >            
                  Does this mean you have both backstays insulated? If so,

                  > >do
                  > > > >you
                  > > > >notice any directionality to the antenna. I had thought to feed both
                  > > > >backstays from the top of the mast as a sort of folded dipole, but
                  > > > >determined the directionality would be a hassle.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >Russ - Jacana - 43CC
                  > > > >
                  > > > >Currently in extended refit
                  > > > >
                  > > > >   _____
                  > > > >
                  > > > >From: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                  > >[mailto: morganowners@yahoogroups.com ]
                  > > >On
                  > > > >Behalf Of Mike & Kerri O'Barr
                  > > > >Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 11:19 PM
                  > > > >To: morganowners@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > >Subject: Re: [morganowners] Re: HF Antenna placement
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >We have a 416 and did a loop antenna (no ground plane). Easy
                  > > >instalitation
                  > > > >.The hot wire goes to
                  > > > >     the port backstay and the ground connects to the starboard
                  > >backstay.
                  > > > >Have
                  > > > >     talked to a station over 5000 miles from us and have no plan of
                  > > > >changing
                  > > > >
                  > > > >it.
                  > > > >     Used it heavily for 5 years this way. The head unit is at the
                  >nav
                  > > > >station on
                  > > > >     the port side of the boat. The radio and tuner are in the aft
                  >port
                  > > > >hanging
                  > > > >     locker.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >I also have an SGC but can not say I have had any problems. Have had
                  >it
                  > > > >about 7 years and it has
                  > > > >     been back 3 times for repair. Luckily I bought it with the 5
                  >year
                  > > > >warrantee and
                  > > > >     all of the times was in the first 5 years. It still cost allot
                  >to
                  > > >have
                  > > > >it
                  > > > >     shipped from the caribbean to be repaired. Next time it dies it
                  > >goes
                  > > > >over the
                  > > > >     side except for the tuner.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >Mike
                  > > > >Kosrae
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >   _____
                  > > > >
                  > > > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >*      Visit your group "morganowners
                  > > > ><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/morganowners> " on the web.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >*      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > > > >  morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > > >
                  ><mailto:morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

                  > > > >
                  > > > >*      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                  > > > ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >   _____
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >   _____
                  > > >
                  > > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >*      Visit your group "morganowners
                  > > ><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/morganowners> " on the web.
                  > > >
                  > > >*      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > > >  morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > > ><mailto:morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                  > > >
                  > > >*      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                  > > ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >   _____
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >   _____
                  >
                  >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >*      Visit your group "morganowners
                  ><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/morganowners> " on the web.
                  >
                  >*      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  >  morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  ><mailto:morganowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                  >
                  >*      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                  ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >   _____
                  >



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