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Rsp. to a Non Life-Extensionist; [wasMorelife - Questions/Comments - His Regimen

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  • kittyaw
    [I received the following personal email sent via MoreLife.] Wow. I have CFIDS and thought I took a lot of supplements. This has been a real eye-opener. How
    Message 1 of 2 , May 10, 2002
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      [I received the following personal email sent via MoreLife.]

      Wow. I have CFIDS and thought I took a lot of supplements.

      This has been a real eye-opener. How sad someone feels the need to
      take so many "separated" and "manufactured" supplements, out of a
      fear of dying.

      This webpage truly has to be one of the most BIZARRE I've ever seen.
      Perhaps if "Tom" actually went to bed according to the rise and fall
      of the sun -- the body's natural circadian rythm -- he could cut out
      maybe 40 of these supplements.

      Sincerely,
      XXX

      -----
      XXX,

      Welcome to MoreLife, although your message displays a lack of
      understanding regarding why Tom and I take the supplements that we
      do. Neither of us is "fearful" of dying - we just have a great
      desire to continue living - learning, growing, producing, and
      experiencing all the bounty that can be had only while alive.
      Perhaps you merely jumped to the regimen page without any exploration
      of the information available in other areas of the website. That
      would be unfortunate, since then you would have also missed the fact
      that this 57 and 64 year old have the interest, drive and stamina,
      for instance, to join the 20 year olds at local Toronto dance clubs
      *and* outdance them all. We are also gradually adding science-based
      citations for all the supplements and chemicals that we take, but
      this will take a considerable amount of time due to the number and
      also because our time must be spread over the many areas of MoreLife
      (and other activities). But even before supplements, a nutritionally
      excellent dietary intake is emphasized on MoreLife as more important
      for a healthy body and hopefully extended life for those of all
      ages. And as is clearly stated on both our regimens, if we were
      considerably younger (you don't state your age), we would use fewer
      supplements and chemicals.

      As for our sleeping routine not being in accordance with "the body's
      natural circadian rythm(sic)", not everyone's sleep is mandated by
      the rising and setting of the sun. If you read some current sleep
      research, you will discover that frequent or abrupt changes are more
      detrimental - as well as psychologically stressful - and that many
      people find that their natural rhythm is between 25 and 26 hours.
      (If one reads, and understands, Tom's explanation for why he devised
      this schedule initially, it is clear that he found himself frequently
      and comfortably out of synch with the sun many years before he began
      to take any supplements.) We are two 50 years+ adults who rarely
      suffer any difficulty sleeping, have excellent appetites and
      digestion, and enormous amounts of intellectual and physical energy.
      The fact that we work on our own schedule allows us to nap if we feel
      the need, thereby reducing any sleep deficit we may have
      accumulated. One could say that we are on an "ad lib" (at our
      pleasure) sleep schedule designed to allow us to enjoy activities
      that occur both during the day and night over the period of a week.
      This is not something that most people can do since they are employed
      in positions that require their physical presence on a rigid schedule
      despite what their bodies find most comfortable.

      Is our website "bizarre"? No, but then to someone who is apparently
      not a life-extensionist, ideas on how to live longer than the typical
      current lifespan are probably viewed as such. Different? Yes, even
      to those who seek a longer healthier life, since MoreLife is science
      oriented - with ourselves as personal examples - and devoid of the
      hype and promises of many individuals, groups, and websites.

      More Life for Us All!

      **Kitty Antonik
      Associate of Tom Matthews
      ***
      MoreLife for us all - http://morelife.org
      Reality based tools for more life in quantity and quality


      PS Initially, I was going to just ignore your negative message, but
      have decided that in addition to responding to you I will post it
      (minus identifying information), with my response, to the MoreLife
      Yahoo group. It has provided me with the opportunity to address a
      few of the key objections raised by non life-extensionists, which
      will be of interest to the members, who are only some of the many
      supporters of MoreLife.
    • kittyaw
      This is the 2nd exchange I had with the writer of the original personal email message. From: XXX Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 12:00 PM To: Kitty Antonik Wakfer
      Message 2 of 2 , May 16, 2002
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        This is the 2nd exchange I had with the writer of the original
        personal email message.

        From: XXX
        Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 12:00 PM
        To: Kitty Antonik Wakfer
        Subject: Re: Morelife - Questions/Comments - His Regimen

        I appreciate your reply, and your explanation. My only response is
        that there are a lot of folks your age(s) who have the energy of 20
        year olds, yet aren't wolfing down bucket-loads of chemicals and
        supplements. And even if these things are helping you, can you
        imagine how much someone without this "supplements for life" setup
        that "Tom" enjoys, would have to spend to join your "club"? Must be
        $40-50 a day...

        From: Kitty Antonik Wakfer [mailto:kitty@...]
        Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 12:22 AM
        To: XXX
        Subject: RE: Morelife - Questions/Comments - His Regimen

        I do not agree with you that "a lot of folks your age(s) ... have the
        energy of 20 year olds". It is the exception, rather than the rule
        to see people our age - and even 30 years younger - who can and do
        climb up more than 2 flights of stairs without breathing hard, speed
        walk down the street, and high energy dance
        (house/rave/techno/salsa/etc.) for 60+ minutes without stopping (and
        100+ minutes total minimum). Most will wait several minutes for an
        elevator rather than use the stairs. Most will drive their cars or
        other motorized conveyance rather than walk a mile or even use a
        bike, skates, etc. Most do not regularly exercise at least 3 times a
        week, but often succumb to the "weekend warrior syndrome" or don't
        even bother at all.

        Regarding supplements, we know of no one who takes as many different
        ones as we do, though Bill Faloon of The Life Extension Foundation
        (LEF) may. Most life-extensionists supplement far less than we do
        but do assure that their nutrition is more than adequate. Some,
        however, do supplement without consuming a highly nutritious diet and
        others even smoke - those who do either are wasting much of their
        money. In regard to money, the daily cost of our supplement regimen
        is approximately $80.15/day for both of us (~$40.08 each, if we used
        the exact same supplements). (This I determined, for this response,
        on our standard inventory spreadsheet adding the multi-quantity
        purchasing, membership, and special yearly discount prices available
        for all sources, where available.) This amount is definitely not
        insignificant, but the cost of our twice a week dancing (if we
        actually paid it), plus eating out during a week (at least one meal,
        which we do), daily fast-foods purchased by most everyone (not us),
        and weekly movies (if we attended, rather than rent as we do on
        occasion) easily results in $25/day. I didn't even count cigarettes
        or alcohol which are consumed daily by the many if not the majority
        of US/Canadian adults, nor costly sporting events attended by large
        numbers, nor CDs and expensive clothing purchased regularly by many
        if not most. The point is - the degree of life-extension practiced
        is a matter of personal priorities based on personal values.

        While Tom Matthews was the moderator of the LEF Forums for 4+ years
        until January of this year - which he also originated in its unique
        format - he answered various questions related to what supplements to
        take on a limited budget or at various ages. A search using the
        Forums limited tool with the strings "regimen" AND "budget"
        OR "regimen" AND "cost"
        http://forum.lef.org/exec/searchForum.cgi?boolean1=1&keyword1=regimen&boolean2=1&keyword2=budget&boolean3=2&keyword3=regimen&boolean4=1&keyword4=cost&numFields=4&s_forum=&fields=Message&author=&action=Search
        yields 28 posts in 8 forums (all prior to 1/10/02, after which the Forums became simply a reader exchange).

        [The above URL for the search on LEF Forums is not working properly (the tool has never been true boolean or even very good) and the first "regimen" is missing. Those interested will need to re-enter and then click on search to see the results described. **Kitty]

        Two threads that particularly show Tom's position on supplements and cost are:
        http://forum.lef.org/exec/readTopic.cgi?message_id=18316&view=#18316 and
        http://forum.lef.org/exec/readTopic.cgi?message_id=23344&view=#23344

        When Tom ceased his consultant services with LEF, we were ready for
        the possibility that they would renege on the agreement to supply
        supplements for life. We would then have reduced the number of
        supplements to correspond with our financial capability in accordance
        with the priority level of life-extension in our lives. This did not
        occur and we thus continue with the high level of supplementation
        listed on our website. However, spurred by your comments, Tom took
        the time to mark our spreadsheet for those items that we would delete
        or reduce *if* we were paying for all the supplementation. The
        number of substances drops by approximately 40% with another 10%
        decreased in quantity, resulting in a cost per day (with all
        discounts taken as above) of approximately $51 for both of us. Since
        we would also most likely then search and find cheaper sources, this
        final price of our daily supplements would probably be under $40 for
        both of us.

        **Kitty Antonik Wakfer
        Associate of Tom Matthews
        ***
        MoreLife for us all - http://morelife.org
        Reality based tools for more life in quantity and quality

        PS Completion of this response was delayed till after a 2 1/2 day
        visit to our cottage so that it could be given a substantive answer.
        PPS This exchange also will be posted to MoreLife Yahoo.
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