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Re: [moneyfolders_unite] Re: Won's Toilet - Base Variant & Random thoughts on Origami philosphy

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  • Kathy Knapp
    ________________________________ From: thebigbluevan To: moneyfolders_unite@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 7, 2012 9:41
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 7, 2012
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      From: thebigbluevan <origamiguy@...>
      To: moneyfolders_unite@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, November 7, 2012 9:41 PM
      Subject: [moneyfolders_unite] Re: Won's Toilet - Base Variant & Random thoughts on Origami philosphy

       
      I think a good thing to keep in mind is that sometimes we can be too slavishly tied to the instructions.

      Origami is an art of self expression. If you don't like the way something is turning out, experiment!
      -------------------------
      and..... if the finished fold is not set next to the diagram, the viewer will not know.
       
      Kathy Knapp,
      Peoria, Illinois, USA
      Do well your part today. - Juliette Gordon Low
    • bobLIN
      Eric, thank you for your helpful comments. I am sure they will help me finish the race car. Your pictures will also be a big help and that cheat of yours
      Message 2 of 19 , Nov 8, 2012
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        Eric, thank you for your helpful comments. I am sure they will help me finish the race car. Your pictures will also be a big help and that 'cheat' of yours is pretty neat! And your spoked wheels - very nice - you must include that in your how-to videos. I wish you had taken a picture of the entire race car. I will post mine when i get back to working on it.

        Yes, I, and probably a large majority of this community, will be anxiously awaiting your Won Park videos. Your videos are excellent and I have used them in the past to complete the scorpion, shark, butterfly, and Pegasus.

        I know this is a dollar folding group, but how about videos of Satoshi Kamaiya's loggerhead turtle...or any of his other models? Tadashi Mori does the Ancient Dragon but he is missing some critical steps for me but otherwise, his videos are outstanding too.

        Thank you again for your support of the Origami community. Your efforts are greatly appreciated.

        Bob Young

        --- In moneyfolders_unite@yahoogroups.com, "thebigbluevan" <origamiguy@...> wrote:
        >
        > OK, it actually looks like you have all the folds done correctly. I think the problem may be that you are unfolding the wheel strut too much. I uploaded some pics of what the step should look like.
        >
        > You can see that most of the pleats forming the strut are not expanded. That keeps the wheel from getting too big. I think that's why you're running out of paper for the wheels. They should meet nicely underneath.
        >
        > I also uploaded a "cheat" for getting the wheels shaped well. I found a mini-to-quarter inch headphone adapter is the perfect diameter for the front wheels! This makes it easier to get them rounded and not boxy.
        >
        > If you look closely at the "Example of Assisted Shaping" photo, you can see I am holding the adapter in place with my thumb and middle finger, and I am using my pointer finger to create the nice 90° angle fold on the underside of the car. I use a pen for the slightly larger back wheels.
        >
        > With a little bit pf tweezer work I made some spoked wheels for the race car.
        >
        > I plan on doing a full video review of Won's new book with basic tips for each model and then separate videos for explaining difficult steps, so keep an eye out and let me know what steps you would like to see demonstrated.
        >
        > Fold happy!
        >
        > -e
        >
      • M
        Hello Eric, If you have time, please help clarifying steps 39-42 for the stegosaur too? Thanks so much! Cheers, -Mike ________________________________ From:
        Message 3 of 19 , Nov 9, 2012
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          Hello Eric,

          If you have time, please help clarifying steps 39-42 for the stegosaur too? Thanks so much!

          Cheers,
          -Mike



          From: bobLIN <bobjrsue@...>
          To: moneyfolders_unite@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thu, November 8, 2012 12:00:33 PM
          Subject: [moneyfolders_unite] Re: Race car wheels

           



          Eric, thank you for your helpful comments. I am sure they will help me finish the race car. Your pictures will also be a big help and that 'cheat' of yours is pretty neat! And your spoked wheels - very nice - you must include that in your how-to videos. I wish you had taken a picture of the entire race car. I will post mine when i get back to working on it.

          Yes, I, and probably a large majority of this community, will be anxiously awaiting your Won Park videos. Your videos are excellent and I have used them in the past to complete the scorpion, shark, butterfly, and Pegasus.

          I know this is a dollar folding group, but how about videos of Satoshi Kamaiya's loggerhead turtle...or any of his other models? Tadashi Mori does the Ancient Dragon but he is missing some critical steps for me but otherwise, his videos are outstanding too.

          Thank you again for your support of the Origami community. Your efforts are greatly appreciated.

          Bob Young

          --- In moneyfolders_unite@yahoogroups.com, "thebigbluevan" <origamiguy@...> wrote:
          >
          > OK, it actually looks like you have all the folds done correctly. I think the problem may be that you are unfolding the wheel strut too much. I uploaded some pics of what the step should look like.
          >
          > You can see that most of the pleats forming the strut are not expanded. That keeps the wheel from getting too big. I think that's why you're running out of paper for the wheels. They should meet nicely underneath.
          >
          > I also uploaded a "cheat" for getting the wheels shaped well. I found a mini-to-quarter inch headphone adapter is the perfect diameter for the front wheels! This makes it easier to get them rounded and not boxy.
          >
          > If you look closely at the "Example of Assisted Shaping" photo, you can see I am holding the adapter in place with my thumb and middle finger, and I am using my pointer finger to create the nice 90° angle fold on the underside of the car. I use a pen for the slightly larger back wheels.
          >
          > With a little bit pf tweezer work I made some spoked wheels for the race car.
          >
          > I plan on doing a full video review of Won's new book with basic tips for each model and then separate videos for explaining difficult steps, so keep an eye out and let me know what steps you would like to see demonstrated.
          >
          > Fold happy!
          >
          > -e
          >

        • trumpetpartner
          I might be able to help with the collapse in step 39. To be honest, I m not completely clear on step 42 myself. I ll post a link if I ever get around to it.
          Message 4 of 19 , Nov 12, 2012
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            I might be able to help with the collapse in step 39. To be honest, I'm not completely clear on step 42 myself. I'll post a link if I ever get around to it.

            -Mike

            --- In moneyfolders_unite@yahoogroups.com, M <mhle7@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Eric,
            >
            > If you have time, please help clarifying steps 39-42 for the stegosaur too?
            > Thanks so much!
            >
            > Cheers,
            > -Mike
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: bobLIN <bobjrsue@...>
            > To: moneyfolders_unite@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Thu, November 8, 2012 12:00:33 PM
            > Subject: [moneyfolders_unite] Re: Race car wheels
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Eric, thank you for your helpful comments. I am sure they will help me finish
            > the race car. Your pictures will also be a big help and that 'cheat' of yours
            > is pretty neat! And your spoked wheels - very nice - you must include that in
            > your how-to videos. I wish you had taken a picture of the entire race car. I
            > will post mine when i get back to working on it.
            >
            > Yes, I, and probably a large majority of this community, will be anxiously
            > awaiting your Won Park videos. Your videos are excellent and I have used them in
            > the past to complete the scorpion, shark, butterfly, and Pegasus.
            >
            > I know this is a dollar folding group, but how about videos of Satoshi Kamaiya's
            > loggerhead turtle...or any of his other models? Tadashi Mori does the Ancient
            > Dragon but he is missing some critical steps for me but otherwise, his videos
            > are outstanding too.
            >
            > Thank you again for your support of the Origami community. Your efforts are
            > greatly appreciated.
            >
            > Bob Young
            >
            > --- In moneyfolders_unite@yahoogroups.com, "thebigbluevan" <origamiguy@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > OK, it actually looks like you have all the folds done correctly. I think the
            > >problem may be that you are unfolding the wheel strut too much. I uploaded some
            > >pics of what the step should look like.
            > >
            > > You can see that most of the pleats forming the strut are not expanded. That
            > >keeps the wheel from getting too big. I think that's why you're running out of
            > >paper for the wheels. They should meet nicely underneath.
            > >
            > > I also uploaded a "cheat" for getting the wheels shaped well. I found a
            > >mini-to-quarter inch headphone adapter is the perfect diameter for the front
            > >wheels! This makes it easier to get them rounded and not boxy.
            > >
            > > If you look closely at the "Example of Assisted Shaping" photo, you can see I
            > >am holding the adapter in place with my thumb and middle finger, and I am using
            > >my pointer finger to create the nice 90° angle fold on the underside of the car.
            > >I use a pen for the slightly larger back wheels.
            > >
            > > With a little bit pf tweezer work I made some spoked wheels for the race car.
            > >
            > > I plan on doing a full video review of Won's new book with basic tips for each
            > >model and then separate videos for explaining difficult steps, so keep an eye
            > >out and let me know what steps you would like to see demonstrated.
            > >
            > > Fold happy!
            > >
            > > -e
            > >
            >
          • M
            That d be so wonderful !!! Thanks, Mike!! -M ... That d be so wonderful !!! Thanks, Mike!! -M On Nov 12, 2012, at 11:39 AM, trumpetpartner
            Message 5 of 19 , Nov 12, 2012
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              That'd be so wonderful !!! Thanks, Mike!!

              -M

              On Nov 12, 2012, at 11:39 AM, "trumpetpartner" <trumpetpartner@...> wrote:

               

              I might be able to help with the collapse in step 39. To be honest, I'm not completely clear on step 42 myself. I'll post a link if I ever get around to it.

              -Mike

              --- In moneyfolders_unite@yahoogroups.com, M <mhle7@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello Eric,
              >
              > If you have time, please help clarifying steps 39-42 for the stegosaur too?
              > Thanks so much!
              >
              > Cheers,
              > -Mike
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: bobLIN <bobjrsue@...>
              > To: moneyfolders_unite@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Thu, November 8, 2012 12:00:33 PM
              > Subject: [moneyfolders_unite] Re: Race car wheels
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Eric, thank you for your helpful comments. I am sure they will help me finish
              > the race car. Your pictures will also be a big help and that 'cheat' of yours
              > is pretty neat! And your spoked wheels - very nice - you must include that in
              > your how-to videos. I wish you had taken a picture of the entire race car. I
              > will post mine when i get back to working on it.
              >
              > Yes, I, and probably a large majority of this community, will be anxiously
              > awaiting your Won Park videos. Your videos are excellent and I have used them in
              > the past to complete the scorpion, shark, butterfly, and Pegasus.
              >
              > I know this is a dollar folding group, but how about videos of Satoshi Kamaiya's
              > loggerhead turtle...or any of his other models? Tadashi Mori does the Ancient
              > Dragon but he is missing some critical steps for me but otherwise, his videos
              > are outstanding too.
              >
              > Thank you again for your support of the Origami community. Your efforts are
              > greatly appreciated.
              >
              > Bob Young
              >
              > --- In moneyfolders_unite@yahoogroups.com, "thebigbluevan" <origamiguy@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > OK, it actually looks like you have all the folds done correctly. I think the
              > >problem may be that you are unfolding the wheel strut too much. I uploaded some
              > >pics of what the step should look like.
              > >
              > > You can see that most of the pleats forming the strut are not expanded. That
              > >keeps the wheel from getting too big. I think that's why you're running out of
              > >paper for the wheels. They should meet nicely underneath.
              > >
              > > I also uploaded a "cheat" for getting the wheels shaped well. I found a
              > >mini-to-quarter inch headphone adapter is the perfect diameter for the front
              > >wheels! This makes it easier to get them rounded and not boxy.
              > >
              > > If you look closely at the "Example of Assisted Shaping" photo, you can see I
              > >am holding the adapter in place with my thumb and middle finger, and I am using
              > >my pointer finger to create the nice 90° angle fold on the underside of the car.
              > >I use a pen for the slightly larger back wheels.
              > >
              > > With a little bit pf tweezer work I made some spoked wheels for the race car.
              > >
              > > I plan on doing a full video review of Won's new book with basic tips for each
              > >model and then separate videos for explaining difficult steps, so keep an eye
              > >out and let me know what steps you would like to see demonstrated.
              > >
              > > Fold happy!
              > >
              > > -e
              > >
              >

            • thebigbluevan
              Steps 39-41 are very tricky, and I don t know if just photos can really clarify the process. I uploaded a few, so hopefully that helps, but this is definitely
              Message 6 of 19 , Nov 13, 2012
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                Steps 39-41 are very tricky, and I don't know if just photos can really clarify the process.

                I uploaded a few, so hopefully that helps, but this is definitely something a video will need to explain.

                A few notes, though:

                Getting the legs to line up neatly alongside the body need not be the final goal as shown in the diagrams. I think the diagrams provide a "true geometric result," but real-life paper thickness and shifting make this result difficult at best.

                Even looking at pics of the completed model lead me to believe the legs are not exactly parallel with the body, but once the final shaping is done, I don't think these steps need to be precise.

                If you look at my photo with a close up of the interior, you can see some extra creases scrunched into the paper as I forced it into "picture perfect" condition. Another way I got the model to get into position was to allow the bottom corner of the belly to draw up into a diagonal. Again, final shaping of the model hides all these variants.

                I was able to get a "clean" fold looking good without extra creases only with the aid of several binder clips, tweezers, and a lot of patience.

                The upshot is that the final model looks the same whether I had extra creases and/or not exactly straight lines versus 15 minutes of clip-assisted folding.

                As far as step 42 is concerned, I am having a little trouble getting my model to look like the diagrams say it should before I even get to that step. Further investigation is needed . . .

                I hope this rambling helps a little. Like I said, I think a video will be leaps and bounds more useful than pics, but I thought I'd at least get something out there for the time being.

                -e
                "Folders assemble!"
              • thebigbluevan
                And please don t be distracted by the front of the model. It is missing the final pleat from step 28.
                Message 7 of 19 , Nov 13, 2012
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                  And please don't be distracted by the front of the model. It is missing the final pleat from step 28.
                • M
                  Thank you SO much, Eric!!!! Cheers, -Mike ________________________________ From: thebigbluevan To:
                  Message 8 of 19 , Nov 13, 2012
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                    Thank you SO much, Eric!!!!

                    Cheers,
                    -Mike



                    From: thebigbluevan <origamiguy@...>
                    To: moneyfolders_unite@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tue, November 13, 2012 10:52:10 AM
                    Subject: [moneyfolders_unite] Re: Stegosaur Help

                     

                    And please don't be distracted by the front of the model. It is missing the final pleat from step 28.

                  • thebigbluevan
                    I ve uploaded pics for these steps. For step 40, you can see you will have to create a little extra fold to create the different levels for the belly. This is
                    Message 9 of 19 , Nov 13, 2012
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                      I've uploaded pics for these steps.

                      For step 40, you can see you will have to create a little extra fold to create the different levels for the belly. This is another area where absolute geometric/mathematical neatness is difficult and ultimately unnecessary due to final shaping.

                      Step 42 - release shows the paper that gets released, and the swivel of the front leg. This is where I cannot get the model to look like the diagrams. The front leg does not extend below the body as shown in step 43. I have looked it over, and I am not sure how that could be accomplished (I've included pics of this "shortcoming"), so if anyone can help?

                      What I can deduce from the photo of the finished model is that there appears to be a missing head crimp to lift the head into better position. You can see the resulting folds in the photo I posted that match the photo in the book, but there is no corresponding instruction.

                      Photos from Won's Deviant Art account show a different style of head positioning altogether along with a more aggressive neck and leg shaping fold sequence:

                      http://orudorumagi11.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=48#/dxy2x6

                      "Fold it like you stole it!"
                    • M
                      Thank you very much, Eric. Perhaps mr. Won can help clarifying some of these troublesome steps?! Happy folding, -Mike
                      Message 10 of 19 , Nov 13, 2012
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                        Thank you very much, Eric. Perhaps mr. Won can help clarifying some of these troublesome steps?!

                        Happy folding,
                        -Mike

                        On Nov 13, 2012, at 2:39 PM, "thebigbluevan" <origamiguy@...> wrote:

                         

                        I've uploaded pics for these steps.

                        For step 40, you can see you will have to create a little extra fold to create the different levels for the belly. This is another area where absolute geometric/mathematical neatness is difficult and ultimately unnecessary due to final shaping.

                        Step 42 - release shows the paper that gets released, and the swivel of the front leg. This is where I cannot get the model to look like the diagrams. The front leg does not extend below the body as shown in step 43. I have looked it over, and I am not sure how that could be accomplished (I've included pics of this "shortcoming"), so if anyone can help?

                        What I can deduce from the photo of the finished model is that there appears to be a missing head crimp to lift the head into better position. You can see the resulting folds in the photo I posted that match the photo in the book, but there is no corresponding instruction.

                        Photos from Won's Deviant Art account show a different style of head positioning altogether along with a more aggressive neck and leg shaping fold sequence:

                        http://orudorumagi11.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=48#/dxy2x6

                        "Fold it like you stole it!"

                      • trumpetpartner
                        Sorry, I tried to make a video over the weekend. I found I had trouble with the collapse, lol. I ll make another one over the holiday. This time I ll drink
                        Message 11 of 19 , Nov 20, 2012
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                          Sorry, I tried to make a video over the weekend. I found I had trouble with the collapse, lol. I'll make another one over the holiday. This time I'll drink the beers after I record the video.

                          --- In moneyfolders_unite@yahoogroups.com, M <mhle7@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > That'd be so wonderful !!! Thanks, Mike!!
                          >
                          > -M
                          >
                          > On Nov 12, 2012, at 11:39 AM, "trumpetpartner" <trumpetpartner@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > I might be able to help with the collapse in step 39. To be honest, I'm not completely clear on step 42 myself. I'll post a link if I ever get around to it.
                          > >
                          > > -Mike
                          > >
                          > > --- In moneyfolders_unite@yahoogroups.com, M <mhle7@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Hello Eric,
                          > > >
                          > > > If you have time, please help clarifying steps 39-42 for the stegosaur too?
                          > > > Thanks so much!
                          > > >
                          > > > Cheers,
                          > > > -Mike
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > ________________________________
                          > > > From: bobLIN <bobjrsue@>
                          > > > To: moneyfolders_unite@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > Sent: Thu, November 8, 2012 12:00:33 PM
                          > > > Subject: [moneyfolders_unite] Re: Race car wheels
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Eric, thank you for your helpful comments. I am sure they will help me finish
                          > > > the race car. Your pictures will also be a big help and that 'cheat' of yours
                          > > > is pretty neat! And your spoked wheels - very nice - you must include that in
                          > > > your how-to videos. I wish you had taken a picture of the entire race car. I
                          > > > will post mine when i get back to working on it.
                          > > >
                          > > > Yes, I, and probably a large majority of this community, will be anxiously
                          > > > awaiting your Won Park videos. Your videos are excellent and I have used them in
                          > > > the past to complete the scorpion, shark, butterfly, and Pegasus.
                          > > >
                          > > > I know this is a dollar folding group, but how about videos of Satoshi Kamaiya's
                          > > > loggerhead turtle...or any of his other models? Tadashi Mori does the Ancient
                          > > > Dragon but he is missing some critical steps for me but otherwise, his videos
                          > > > are outstanding too.
                          > > >
                          > > > Thank you again for your support of the Origami community. Your efforts are
                          > > > greatly appreciated.
                          > > >
                          > > > Bob Young
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In moneyfolders_unite@yahoogroups.com, "thebigbluevan" <origamiguy@>
                          > > > wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > OK, it actually looks like you have all the folds done correctly. I think the
                          > > > >problem may be that you are unfolding the wheel strut too much. I uploaded some
                          > > > >pics of what the step should look like.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > You can see that most of the pleats forming the strut are not expanded. That
                          > > > >keeps the wheel from getting too big. I think that's why you're running out of
                          > > > >paper for the wheels. They should meet nicely underneath.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I also uploaded a "cheat" for getting the wheels shaped well. I found a
                          > > > >mini-to-quarter inch headphone adapter is the perfect diameter for the front
                          > > > >wheels! This makes it easier to get them rounded and not boxy.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > If you look closely at the "Example of Assisted Shaping" photo, you can see I
                          > > > >am holding the adapter in place with my thumb and middle finger, and I am using
                          > > > >my pointer finger to create the nice 90° angle fold on the underside of the car.
                          > > > >I use a pen for the slightly larger back wheels.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > With a little bit pf tweezer work I made some spoked wheels for the race car.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I plan on doing a full video review of Won's new book with basic tips for each
                          > > > >model and then separate videos for explaining difficult steps, so keep an eye
                          > > > >out and let me know what steps you would like to see demonstrated.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Fold happy!
                          > > > >
                          > > > > -e
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
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