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Forward engineering?

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  • Eric Strand
    Ok, so I have the photo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/8938183@N04/2446567442/ And the CP: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jon_tucker/2837849990/sizes/l/ but just
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 31, 2009
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      Ok, so I have the photo:

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/8938183@N04/2446567442/

      And the CP:

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/jon_tucker/2837849990/sizes/l/


      but just can't quite pull it together. Help? It seems so simple . . .

      -e
    • Mike
      Thanks for reminding me of this model. I had seen it a year or so ago in j0nb0n s flicker gallery when I was researching dollar bill roses as a gift for my
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 3 2:53 PM
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        Thanks for reminding me of this model. I had seen it a year or so ago in j0nb0n's flicker gallery when I was researching dollar bill roses as a gift for my wife. j0nb0n has a rose cufflink set in his photo gallery I modified to give a stem and leaf and posted up as the $10 rose in the files section. Your post got me interested in returning to his gallery to see if I could figure out the hang glider model. I tried it this afternoon during lunch and I mostly got it to work. My folding is imprecise, so my model is a bit 'mushy', and I have part of the model trapped in the wing instead of just below the wing in his picture, but overall its pretty close.

        j0nb0n includes some hints with his caption to the crease pattern. The person is formed from a frog base, and the incomplete 1/2 square on the right of the dollar bill is excess, so it gets hidden into the wing portion of the model. The other hint is in the crease pattern: the creases from the petal folds at the corners of the main square on the left are reflected into the next 1/2 square to its right. This means you fold that portion of the dollar bill back on itself before you start forming the primary base. The 'wing' part (the 1/2 square with only 2 folds in it) you keep sticking out of the primary base while you fold it. The hang glider begins to take shape as you squash the four flaps of the primary base to form the frog base. This is also when you can tuck away the extra incomplete 1/2 square into the 'wing'

        From here, you petal fold every other flap (starting one flap to the left and one flap to the right of the front) to give long appendages. Shape these 4 into legs (the first pair near the bottom) and arms (the second pair near the back), thin the body, and then pull the 'head' free of the wing and spread-squash it.

        I knew I was close when I had the frog base formed and the wing had taken its correct shape. The shape of the transition between the wing and the frog base were just a bit off though, and I missed the difference before I pressed ahead to form the person.

        Maybe I'll get it right next time.

        -Mike



        --- In moneyfolders_unite@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Strand" <origamiguy@...> wrote:
        >
        > Ok, so I have the photo:
        >
        > http://www.flickr.com/photos/8938183@N04/2446567442/
        >
        > And the CP:
        >
        > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jon_tucker/2837849990/sizes/l/
        >
        >
        > but just can't quite pull it together. Help? It seems so simple . . .
        >
        > -e
        >
      • Eric Strand
        ... I just tried that model last night! The completely mutilated dollar is sitting on my coffee table. How do you handle the stem part while twist folding?
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 4 2:39 PM
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          --- In moneyfolders_unite@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mike.onines@...> wrote:
          >
          > Thanks for reminding me of this model. I had seen it a year or so ago in j0nb0n's flicker gallery when I was researching dollar bill roses as a gift for my wife. j0nb0n has a rose cufflink set in his photo gallery I modified to give a stem and leaf and posted up as the $10 rose in the files section.

          I just tried that model last night! The completely mutilated dollar is sitting on my coffee table. How do you handle the stem part while twist folding? grrrrrr
        • Mike
          ... Eric, You fold the narrow pleat-folded flap which forms a transition between the stem and the square for the rose up onto the top of the flat square of
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 5 8:59 AM
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            --- In moneyfolders_unite@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Strand" <origamiguy@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In moneyfolders_unite@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mike.onines@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Thanks for reminding me of this model. I had seen it a year or so ago in j0nb0n's flicker gallery when I was researching dollar bill roses as a gift for my wife. j0nb0n has a rose cufflink set in his photo gallery I modified to give a stem and leaf and posted up as the $10 rose in the files section.
            >
            > I just tried that model last night! The completely mutilated dollar is sitting on my coffee table. How do you handle the stem part while twist folding? grrrrrr
            >

            Eric,

            You fold the narrow pleat-folded flap which forms a transition between the stem and the square for the rose up onto the top of the flat square of paper - the stem sticks straight up while you precrease the rose portion. It just kind of sits there sticking out of the model and you mangle it to stick out of the bottom center when done.

            The strip of thickly folded pleats along the one edge makes some of the precreases odd to perform, but the twist fold is normal enough. The stem will be sticking UP for the 'twist and squash the center square' step. I usually do this twist-fold with the model mostly flat rather than some of the techniques where you form an almost primary base shape as a precursor to the twist-fold. Once the twist-fold is done, flip it over and the stem sticks DOWN when starting to form the cylinder.

            The stem is very much in the way as the cylinder is formed, so I usually start with a petal not near the stem and work my way around. Somehow it works out.

            The stem and the extra folded portion of the bill do keep me from doing locking folds on the bottom you would normally do with a Kawasaki rose. In lieu of locking folds I just take the parts of the bottom which would normally be folded precisely to lock the model, and shove them into the middle. In the short-term this usually provides enough locking for the model to hold its shape. Over the long term the rose often relaxes back into more of a mangled piece of paper at the end of a stem-looking thing. Of course, in all honesty, I have never been able to quite figure out the locking folds for a Kawasaki rose. Someday maybe I'll figure it out, but the diagrams and videos I've seen of this part of the rose model just confuse me. Maybe someone can show me that part in person some day.

            I think I mentioned it on the crease pattern, but I can't do any of the intricate folding many Kawasaki rose folders include to give the appearance of extra petals and better shaping. I just use the primary creases noted in the crease pattern to do the twist fold, then form to a cylinder. From there I shape the petals and shove the extensions from the petals under the rose and fold them into the center. I bet if Michael Sanders were to do this, it would have all the intricacies of the dollar bill rose on his photostream where he did a dollar-to-square fold and then turned it into a beautiful Kawasaki rose.

            Last year I folded a dozen of these using the new pinkish $10 bills and presented them to my wife. It was funny, she found out along the way I was ferretting money away and setting it aside for her birthday present (Feb 14th), and kept warning me we couldn't afford an expensive gift and not to spend too much on her (she's too practical for her own good). It was a big laugh when she received the $120 bouquet. I think all of them eventually were unfolded and spent over the next year :-).

            Reflecting on it further, Eric, you just might be _too_ precise a folder to do this one. There is a lot of mushing and 'just shove this bit over there somewhere' in my folding, while your videos show very precise creasing and folding. You're a much better folder than I am, that's for sure. I don't have the precision needed to even attempt Won's Koi model.

            Thanks for giving it a go. Let me know if you have any success.

            -Mike
          • Mike
            ... OK, I added some photos to the album $ Rose with stem intermediate steps to hopefully show where the stem is sticking out as the rose folds begin. I
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 5 11:12 AM
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              --- In moneyfolders_unite@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Strand" <origamiguy@...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In moneyfolders_unite@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mike.onines@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Thanks for reminding me of this model. I had seen it a year or so ago in j0nb0n's flicker gallery when I was researching dollar bill roses as a gift for my wife. j0nb0n has a rose cufflink set in his photo gallery I modified to give a stem and leaf and posted up as the $10 rose in the files section.
              >
              > I just tried that model last night! The completely mutilated dollar is sitting on my coffee table. How do you handle the stem part while twist folding? grrrrrr
              >

              OK, I added some photos to the album "$ Rose with stem intermediate steps" to hopefully show where the stem is sticking out as the rose folds begin. I noticed on my CP the 4 corner folds are not all shown as valley folds; they should all be valleys.

              On photo 4 the circled petal is the only petal tip with lots of extra folds buried in it, so it behaves a little different than the other 3 when shaping it. I usually fold it either first or last when forming the cylinder.

              Hope it helps.
            • Eric Strand
              ... Haha, I just find it s so much easier to demonstrate/teach a model that has very specific landmarks. Fold here to here. If it s fold somewhere around
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 5 5:09 PM
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                --- In moneyfolders_unite@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mike.onines@...> wrote:
                >

                > Reflecting on it further, Eric, you just might be _too_ precise a folder to do this one. There is a lot of mushing and 'just shove this bit over there somewhere' in my folding, while your videos show very precise creasing and folding. You're a much better folder than I am, that's for sure. I don't have the precision needed to even attempt Won's Koi model.
                >
                > Thanks for giving it a go. Let me know if you have any success.
                >
                > -Mike
                >
                Haha, I just find it's so much easier to demonstrate/teach a model that has very specific landmarks. Fold here to here. If it's "fold somewhere around here," You also have to talk about the range of acceptable variation, etc. At least for me, the first time I fold a model, I like to be as precise as possible. The model is nothing more than a series of steps.

                After a few times, I start to "understand" the model more. I get what each part is doing. This also helps me memorize a model as I'm not remembering 50 steps, but forming tangible parts of the model. I'm not really at that point with mony models, but I'm trying!

                Anyway, thanks for the help! I'll definitely post a pic if it ever become recognizable! Maybe even do a video . . .
              • j0nnyc4k35
                Hi-I am glad to see you guys are enjoying my hang glider. I have luckily been working on diagrams for them and just finished them. I uploaded them in the files
                Message 7 of 9 , Aug 6 12:32 PM
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                  Hi-I am glad to see you guys are enjoying my hang glider. I have luckily been working on diagrams for them and just finished them. I uploaded them in the files section, and they should clear up any problems you are having. Good luck!

                  -Jon

                  --- In moneyfolders_unite@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mike.onines@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Thanks for reminding me of this model. I had seen it a year or so ago in j0nb0n's flicker gallery when I was researching dollar bill roses as a gift for my wife. j0nb0n has a rose cufflink set in his photo gallery I modified to give a stem and leaf and posted up as the $10 rose in the files section. Your post got me interested in returning to his gallery to see if I could figure out the hang glider model. I tried it this afternoon during lunch and I mostly got it to work. My folding is imprecise, so my model is a bit 'mushy', and I have part of the model trapped in the wing instead of just below the wing in his picture, but overall its pretty close.
                  >
                  > j0nb0n includes some hints with his caption to the crease pattern. The person is formed from a frog base, and the incomplete 1/2 square on the right of the dollar bill is excess, so it gets hidden into the wing portion of the model. The other hint is in the crease pattern: the creases from the petal folds at the corners of the main square on the left are reflected into the next 1/2 square to its right. This means you fold that portion of the dollar bill back on itself before you start forming the primary base. The 'wing' part (the 1/2 square with only 2 folds in it) you keep sticking out of the primary base while you fold it. The hang glider begins to take shape as you squash the four flaps of the primary base to form the frog base. This is also when you can tuck away the extra incomplete 1/2 square into the 'wing'
                  >
                  > From here, you petal fold every other flap (starting one flap to the left and one flap to the right of the front) to give long appendages. Shape these 4 into legs (the first pair near the bottom) and arms (the second pair near the back), thin the body, and then pull the 'head' free of the wing and spread-squash it.
                  >
                  > I knew I was close when I had the frog base formed and the wing had taken its correct shape. The shape of the transition between the wing and the frog base were just a bit off though, and I missed the difference before I pressed ahead to form the person.
                  >
                  > Maybe I'll get it right next time.
                  >
                  > -Mike
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In moneyfolders_unite@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Strand" <origamiguy@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Ok, so I have the photo:
                  > >
                  > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/8938183@N04/2446567442/
                  > >
                  > > And the CP:
                  > >
                  > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jon_tucker/2837849990/sizes/l/
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > but just can't quite pull it together. Help? It seems so simple . . .
                  > >
                  > > -e
                  > >
                  >
                • Eric Strand
                  ... Your timing is impeccable. Thanks! Got it in one. -e
                  Message 8 of 9 , Aug 8 11:51 PM
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                    --- In moneyfolders_unite@yahoogroups.com, "j0nnyc4k35" <jtt8@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi-I am glad to see you guys are enjoying my hang glider. I have luckily been working on diagrams for them and just finished them. I uploaded them in the files section, and they should clear up any problems you are having. Good luck!
                    >


                    Your timing is impeccable. Thanks! Got it in one.

                    -e
                  • j0nnyc4k35
                    I have updated the diagrams-if you see any more mistakes, feel free to comment. Enjoy!
                    Message 9 of 9 , Aug 12 2:27 PM
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                      I have updated the diagrams-if you see any more mistakes, feel free to comment. Enjoy!
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