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Re: Looking for good MP2 reference material

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  • Fred Moyer
    ... http://perl.apache.org/docs/2.0/index.html is free.
    Message 1 of 17 , Oct 1, 2005
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      On Sat, 1 Oct 2005 10:50 am, Boysenberry Payne wrote:
      > Anyone know of some good apache2 mp2 related reading material that I
      > could
      > purchase for more up to date info than the stuff I'm getting from my
      > old
      > O' Reilly books?

      http://perl.apache.org/docs/2.0/index.html is free.
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Boysenberry
      >
      > boysenberrys.com | habitatlife.com | selfgnosis.com
    • Boysenberry Payne
      I practically live there at times. What I m looking for actually is something that will be up to date more when it comes to using perl modules with mod_perl.
      Message 2 of 17 , Oct 2, 2005
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        I practically live there at times.

        What I'm looking for actually is something that will be up to date more
        when it comes to
        using perl modules with mod_perl. I've noticed a lot of time either me
        or someone else
        mentioning examples given from Practical mod_perl, etc. Then someone
        on the list
        will say the modules is old and there is a newer one that works better.

        I was hoping there was a book I could buy for when I'm not hooked up to
        the internet.

        Thanks,
        Boysenberry

        boysenberrys.com | habitatlife.com | selfgnosis.com

        On Oct 1, 2005, at 12:57 PM, Fred Moyer wrote:

        > On Sat, 1 Oct 2005 10:50 am, Boysenberry Payne wrote:
        >> Anyone know of some good apache2 mp2 related reading material that I
        >> could
        >> purchase for more up to date info than the stuff I'm getting from my
        >> old
        >> O' Reilly books?
        >
        > http://perl.apache.org/docs/2.0/index.html is free.
        >>
        >> Thanks,
        >> Boysenberry
        >>
        >> boysenberrys.com | habitatlife.com | selfgnosis.com
        >
        >
      • Foo Ji-Haw
        I know what you mean. I have this feeling that Perl is generally frozen until Perl 6 comes out. Otherwise things must move along quietly. Publishers (O
        Message 3 of 17 , Oct 2, 2005
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          I know what you mean.

          I have this feeling that Perl is generally 'frozen' until Perl 6 comes out.
          Otherwise things must 'move along' quietly. Publishers (O' Reilly) are
          complaining that Perl is not a sellout it used to be. That probably caused
          the print slump as well.

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Boysenberry Payne" <boysenberry@...>
          To: "mod_perl" <modperl@...>
          Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 12:58 AM
          Subject: Re: Looking for good MP2 reference material


          > I practically live there at times.
          >
          > What I'm looking for actually is something that will be up to date more
          > when it comes to
          > using perl modules with mod_perl. I've noticed a lot of time either me
          > or someone else
          > mentioning examples given from Practical mod_perl, etc. Then someone
          > on the list
          > will say the modules is old and there is a newer one that works better.
          >
          > I was hoping there was a book I could buy for when I'm not hooked up to
          > the internet.
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Boysenberry
          >
          > boysenberrys.com | habitatlife.com | selfgnosis.com
          >
          > On Oct 1, 2005, at 12:57 PM, Fred Moyer wrote:
          >
          > > On Sat, 1 Oct 2005 10:50 am, Boysenberry Payne wrote:
          > >> Anyone know of some good apache2 mp2 related reading material that I
          > >> could
          > >> purchase for more up to date info than the stuff I'm getting from my
          > >> old
          > >> O' Reilly books?
          > >
          > > http://perl.apache.org/docs/2.0/index.html is free.
          > >>
          > >> Thanks,
          > >> Boysenberry
          > >>
          > >> boysenberrys.com | habitatlife.com | selfgnosis.com
          > >
          > >
        • Perrin Harkins
          ... That s completely untrue. No mod_perl development is waiting for Perl6 in any way. ... Alison Randal recently mentioned in a use.perl.org post that sales
          Message 4 of 17 , Oct 3, 2005
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            Foo Ji-Haw wrote:
            > I have this feeling that Perl is generally 'frozen' until Perl 6 comes out.

            That's completely untrue. No mod_perl development is waiting for Perl6
            in any way.

            > Publishers (O' Reilly) are
            > complaining that Perl is not a sellout it used to be.

            Alison Randal recently mentioned in a use.perl.org post that sales of
            O'Reilly's Perl books are up.

            > That probably caused
            > the print slump as well.

            There is no "slump." It takes a long time (years) and a lot of work to
            write a good technical book. mod_perl 2.0 came out a few months ago.
            If you want mod_perl 2 books, ask your favorite publishers for them.
            Don't expect any soon though, unless someone is already writing them.

            The on-line documentation has always been the best place to look for
            up-to-date API reference material, and I expect it always will be. The
            books are more about getting the big picture and learning where to look
            for solutions. No book will ever keep up with the rate of change on
            CPAN, so it's a given that you have to supplement suggestions about
            modules with research of your own.

            - Perrin
          • Geoffrey Young
            ... it s worth mentioning as well that the big picture is practically the same for mod_perl 2.0 as it is for mod_perl 1.0, so any/all of the mp1 books out
            Message 5 of 17 , Oct 3, 2005
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              > books are more about getting the big picture and learning where to look
              > for solutions.

              it's worth mentioning as well that "the big picture" is practically the
              same for mod_perl 2.0 as it is for mod_perl 1.0, so any/all of the mp1
              books out there are still pretty relevant and contain required reading
              if you're going to do any mod_perl development.

              comments like "wow! you can return DECLINED!" make it obvious that
              these texts are being passed over because they're focused on mp1, which
              fails to recognize that "the big picture" is essentially the same and
              worth understanding.

              --Geoff
            • Boysenberry Payne
              ... On that note, I would love any help or feedback on where to get started on writing a good tech book for MP2. I can t think of anything that would get me
              Message 6 of 17 , Oct 3, 2005
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                On Oct 3, 2005, at 10:35 AM, Perrin Harkins wrote:

                > There is no "slump." It takes a long time (years) and a lot of work
                > to write a good technical book. mod_perl 2.0 came out a few months
                > ago. If you want mod_perl 2 books, ask your favorite publishers for
                > them. Don't expect any soon though, unless someone is already writing
                > them.

                On that note, I would love any help or feedback on where to get started
                on writing
                a good tech book for MP2. I can't think of anything that would get me
                more up to
                speed on it's features. I am by no means an expert.

                I keep several O' Reilly books on perl, mod_perl and apache but find
                myself digging for
                more up to date info constantly. Don't know what I'd do without this
                mailing list.

                On the apache list a person pointed me at this soon to be released Pro
                Apache 2.0 Module Development book:
                http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1590594436/002-0673693
                -1147268?v=glance

                Another person on this list suggested writing a new book to me. I
                think it
                would be great, if nothing else to take most of what's in Practical
                mod_perl
                and just update the examples with either MP2 structures or more up to
                date
                CPAN modules would save people like me a bit of trouble. It seems to me
                when I use examples out of Practical mod_perl a lot of the time I find
                out
                after I put my code together that there a new or better (i.e. more
                efficient)
                solution and that I'm using dated material.

                It's not that I don't want to check here to get up to date info. It's
                more that
                I can't always get online (I develop locally.) Sometimes, it can take
                days
                to get a solution because of this.

                > The on-line documentation has always been the best place to look for
                > up-to-date API reference material, and I expect it always will be.
                > The books are more about getting the big picture and learning where to
                > look for solutions. No book will ever keep up with the rate of change
                > on CPAN, so it's a given that you have to supplement suggestions about
                > modules with research of your own.

                I imagine any book that is written would be dated as soon as it was
                published
                nowa days. That's something that can't be helped.
                As far as trying to cover all the modules in CPAN, well that's beyond
                mod_perl2
                anyway. I'm thinking more along the lines of the "core" modules that
                are
                used in mod_perl2 and the most common supportive modules.
                Even a text version of what's on:
                http://perl.apache.org/docs/2.0/index.html
                and
                http://httpd.apache.org/apreq/docs/libapreq2/

                Would help out a lot...

                Am I pipe dreaming?

                Boysenberry

                boysenberrys.com | habitatlife.com | selfgnosis.com

                On Oct 3, 2005, at 10:35 AM, Perrin Harkins wrote:

                > Foo Ji-Haw wrote:
                >> I have this feeling that Perl is generally 'frozen' until Perl 6
                >> comes out.
                >
                > That's completely untrue. No mod_perl development is waiting for
                > Perl6 in any way.
                >
                >> Publishers (O' Reilly) are
                >> complaining that Perl is not a sellout it used to be.
                >
                > Alison Randal recently mentioned in a use.perl.org post that sales of
                > O'Reilly's Perl books are up.
                >
                >> That probably caused
                >> the print slump as well.
                >
                > There is no "slump." It takes a long time (years) and a lot of work
                > to write a good technical book. mod_perl 2.0 came out a few months
                > ago. If you want mod_perl 2 books, ask your favorite publishers for
                > them. Don't expect any soon though, unless someone is already writing
                > them.
                >
                > The on-line documentation has always been the best place to look for
                > up-to-date API reference material, and I expect it always will be.
                > The books are more about getting the big picture and learning where to
                > look for solutions. No book will ever keep up with the rate of change
                > on CPAN, so it's a given that you have to supplement suggestions about
                > modules with research of your own.
                >
                > - Perrin
                >
                >
              • Philip M. Gollucci
                ... You could build the docs site locally and then take all the pdf files.. They make a book. -- END ... What doesn t kill us can only make us stronger.
                Message 7 of 17 , Oct 3, 2005
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                  Boysenberry Payne wrote:
                  > http://perl.apache.org/docs/2.0/index.html
                  > and
                  > http://httpd.apache.org/apreq/docs/libapreq2/
                  You could build the docs site locally and then take all the pdf files.. They make a book.


                  --
                  END
                  ------------------------------------------------------------
                  What doesn't kill us can only make us stronger.
                  Nothing is impossible.

                  Philip M. Gollucci (pgollucci@...) 301.254.5198
                  Consultant / http://p6m7g8.net/Resume/
                  Senior Developer / Liquidity Services, Inc.
                  http://www.liquidityservicesinc.com
                  http://www.liquidation.com
                  http://www.uksurplus.com
                  http://www.govliquidation.com
                  http://www.gowholesale.com
                • Perrin Harkins
                  ... Write an article or tutorial. See how it goes. Get them published somewhere. Then write a few more. Then talk to a book publisher. ... It s not clear if
                  Message 8 of 17 , Oct 3, 2005
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                    On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 12:30 -0500, Boysenberry Payne wrote:
                    > On that note, I would love any help or feedback on where to get
                    > started on writing
                    > a good tech book for MP2.

                    Write an article or tutorial. See how it goes. Get them published
                    somewhere. Then write a few more. Then talk to a book publisher.

                    > On the apache list a person pointed me at this soon to be released Pro
                    > Apache 2.0 Module Development book:
                    > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1590594436/002-0673693-1147268?v=glance

                    It's not clear if this book will be talking about mod_perl or not.

                    > It's not that I don't want to check here to get up to date info. It's
                    > more that
                    > I can't always get online (I develop locally.)

                    You can keep local copies of perl.apache.org and CPAN. You obviously
                    have to be on-line to talk to the list though.

                    > Even a text version of what's on:
                    > http://perl.apache.org/docs/2.0/index.html
                    > and
                    > http://httpd.apache.org/apreq/docs/libapreq2/
                    >
                    > Would help out a lot...

                    There are printable PDF links in the upper right corner of most pages on
                    the mod_perl site. You can also download the docs from the Subversion
                    repository and build the PDFs locally.

                    - Perrin
                  • Boysenberry Payne
                    ... Isn t mod_perl 2 an Apache 2.0 Module, so that even if the book doesn t talk about MP2 directly, an understanding of how MP2 fits with Apache2 might be
                    Message 9 of 17 , Oct 3, 2005
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                      On Oct 3, 2005, at 12:40 PM, Perrin Harkins wrote:

                      > It's not clear if this book will be talking about mod_perl or not.

                      Isn't mod_perl 2 an Apache 2.0 Module, so that even if the book doesn't
                      talk about
                      MP2 directly, an understanding of how MP2 fits with Apache2 might be
                      gleamed?
                      That's how I got a better handle of MP1/Apache1.33 workings, by reading
                      "Writing
                      Apache Modules with C and Perl" by O'Reilly. You know, the nitty
                      gritty of Apache
                      handlers.

                      > Write an article or tutorial. See how it goes. Get them published
                      > somewhere. Then write a few more. Then talk to a book publisher.

                      Great way to get started, thanks. As far as mod_perl tutorials go, can
                      I submit them
                      here before I publish to get pointers, etc without causing unwanted
                      traffic or noise?
                      That will at least help me not to published dated advice...

                      > There are printable PDF links in the upper right corner of most pages
                      > on
                      > the mod_perl site. You can also download the docs from the Subversion
                      > repository and build the PDFs locally.

                      I will in fact create a local version of the online docs now, thanks.
                      No lame excuses about not having "off-line" resources...
                      ;)

                      Thanks,
                      Boysenberry

                      boysenberrys.com | habitatlife.com | selfgnosis.com
                    • Perrin Harkins
                      ... Sure, but I thought you were looking for information about Perl modules. ... Yes, other people have posted things on the list for feedback in the past. -
                      Message 10 of 17 , Oct 3, 2005
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                        On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 14:27 -0500, Boysenberry Payne wrote:
                        > Isn't mod_perl 2 an Apache 2.0 Module, so that even if the book doesn't
                        > talk about
                        > MP2 directly, an understanding of how MP2 fits with Apache2 might be
                        > gleamed?

                        Sure, but I thought you were looking for information about Perl modules.

                        > Great way to get started, thanks. As far as mod_perl tutorials go, can
                        > I submit them
                        > here before I publish to get pointers, etc without causing unwanted
                        > traffic or noise?

                        Yes, other people have posted things on the list for feedback in the
                        past.

                        - Perrin
                      • Foo Ji-Haw
                        ... I agree on your point on mod_perl development. I am glad that it has finally moved out of 1.999 and into its own namespace this year. I m still
                        Message 11 of 17 , Oct 3, 2005
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                          > That's completely untrue. No mod_perl development is waiting for Perl6
                          > in any way.
                          I agree on your point on mod_perl development. I am glad that it has finally
                          moved out of 1.999 and into its own namespace this year. I'm still
                          experiencing some problems with Apache2::Cookies, but that's another story
                          altogether. Overall MP2 is great.

                          > Alison Randal recently mentioned in a use.perl.org post that sales of
                          > O'Reilly's Perl books are up.
                          Ok, I did remember reading an interview with Tim O'Reilly about how he was
                          talking about lowered sales of Perl books. But I dug the web and I can't the
                          reference. So I guess I have to take that back for now.
                        • Perrin Harkins
                          ... Maybe you mean this one: http://www.oreilly.com/pub/a/oreilly/ask_tim/2004/perl_0707.html However, there is no mention of a sales slump in that, and the
                          Message 12 of 17 , Oct 3, 2005
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                            Foo Ji-Haw wrote:
                            > Ok, I did remember reading an interview with Tim O'Reilly about how he was
                            > talking about lowered sales of Perl books. But I dug the web and I can't the
                            > reference.

                            Maybe you mean this one:
                            http://www.oreilly.com/pub/a/oreilly/ask_tim/2004/perl_0707.html

                            However, there is no mention of a sales slump in that, and the graph he
                            links to there doesn't show any significant decline in sales of Perl books.

                            - Perrin
                          • Philip M. Gollucci
                            ... The perl.apache.org site is also /relatively/ new... I think early 2004 it saw creation? News is getting out and it is the most up to date source of API
                            Message 13 of 17 , Oct 3, 2005
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                              Perrin Harkins wrote:
                              > However, there is no mention of a sales slump in that, and the graph he
                              > links to there doesn't show any significant decline in sales of Perl books.
                              The perl.apache.org site is also /relatively/ new... I think early 2004 it saw
                              creation?

                              News is getting out and it is the most up to date source of API documentation
                              for mod_perl. Maybe people are realizing it and deciding they don't need to buy
                              as many books?


                              --
                              END
                              ------------------------------------------------------------
                              What doesn't kill us can only make us stronger.
                              Nothing is impossible.

                              Philip M. Gollucci (pgollucci@...) 301.254.5198
                              Consultant / http://p6m7g8.net/Resume/
                              Senior Developer / Liquidity Services, Inc.
                              http://www.liquidityservicesinc.com
                              http://www.liquidation.com
                              http://www.uksurplus.com
                              http://www.govliquidation.com
                              http://www.gowholesale.com
                            • Perrin Harkins
                              ... Hmmm, not sure where you got that idea, Philip. The site has been around for many years. I don t even know how old it is because when I first heard of
                              Message 14 of 17 , Oct 3, 2005
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                                Philip M. Gollucci wrote:
                                > The perl.apache.org site is also /relatively/ new... I think early 2004
                                > it saw creation?

                                Hmmm, not sure where you got that idea, Philip. The site has been
                                around for many years. I don't even know how old it is because when I
                                first heard of mod_perl (in 1998) it already existed. However, the nice
                                design it has now (thanks to hard work by a few generous people) is
                                fairly new.

                                - Perrin
                              • Foo Ji-Haw
                                Thanks for the link. I stand corrected on the book sales then. ... From: Perrin Harkins To: Foo Ji-Haw Cc:
                                Message 15 of 17 , Oct 4, 2005
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                                  Thanks for the link. I stand corrected on the book sales then.

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Perrin Harkins" <perrin@...>
                                  To: "Foo Ji-Haw" <jhfoo@...>
                                  Cc: "Boysenberry Payne" <boysenberry@...>; "mod_perl"
                                  <modperl@...>
                                  Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 12:56 PM
                                  Subject: Re: Looking for good MP2 reference material


                                  > Foo Ji-Haw wrote:
                                  > > Ok, I did remember reading an interview with Tim O'Reilly about how he
                                  was
                                  > > talking about lowered sales of Perl books. But I dug the web and I can't
                                  the
                                  > > reference.
                                  >
                                  > Maybe you mean this one:
                                  > http://www.oreilly.com/pub/a/oreilly/ask_tim/2004/perl_0707.html
                                  >
                                  > However, there is no mention of a sales slump in that, and the graph he
                                  > links to there doesn't show any significant decline in sales of Perl
                                  books.
                                  >
                                  > - Perrin
                                • Philip M. Gollucci
                                  ... Right the one Stas maintained. I was refering to the new design on perl.apache.org -- END ... What doesn t kill us can only make us stronger. Nothing is
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Oct 4, 2005
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                                    Perrin Harkins wrote:
                                    > Hmmm, not sure where you got that idea, Philip. The site has been
                                    > around for many years. I don't even know how old it is because when I
                                    > first heard of mod_perl (in 1998) it already existed. However, the nice
                                    > design it has now (thanks to hard work by a few generous people) is
                                    > fairly new.
                                    Right the one Stas maintained. I was refering to the new design on perl.apache.org

                                    --
                                    END
                                    ------------------------------------------------------------
                                    What doesn't kill us can only make us stronger.
                                    Nothing is impossible.

                                    Philip M. Gollucci (pgollucci@...) 301.254.5198
                                    Consultant / http://p6m7g8.net/Resume/
                                    Senior Developer / Liquidity Services, Inc.
                                    http://www.liquidityservicesinc.com
                                    http://www.liquidation.com
                                    http://www.uksurplus.com
                                    http://www.govliquidation.com
                                    http://www.gowholesale.com
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